Who Is Allah?

Who Is Allah?

There are 256284 comments on the The Brussels Journal story from Aug 24, 2007, titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#190388 Sep 25, 2013
Shamma wrote:
Jesus came to.
To reveal the Father (Matt. 11:27) "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."
To be a ransom for many (Matt. 20:28) "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
To serve (Matt. 20:28) "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
To save the world (John 3:17; Luke 19:10) "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
To preach the good news of the kingdom of God (Luke 4:43) "But he said, "I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent."
To bring division (Luke 12:51) "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division."
To do the will of the Father (John 6:38) "For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me."
To give the Father's words (John 17:8) "For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me."
To testify to the truth (John 18:37) "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
To die and destroy Satan's power (Heb. 2:14) "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death -- that is, the devil."
To destroy the devil's works (1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."
To fulfill the Law and the Prophets (Matt. 5:17) "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
To give life (John 10:10,28) "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full... I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand."
To taste death for everyone (Heb. 2:9) "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone."
To become a high priest (Heb. 2:17) "For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people."
To atone for sin (Heb. 2:17) "For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people."
To proclaim freedom for believers (Luke 4:18) "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed."
To know who is true (1 John 5:20) "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true -- even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."
How many of these apply to Moses?

None?

So jesus was not like Moses,

Case closed for Deut. 18:18!!

It is so Simple!!
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#190389 Sep 25, 2013
MUQ wrote:
How many of these apply to Moses?
None?
So jesus was not like Moses,
Case closed for Deut. 18:18!!
It is so Simple!!
Excellent, MUQ

Case not only closed but dismissed too.

Well said.

Salaams
BMZ

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#190390 Sep 25, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
How many of these apply to Moses?
None?
So jesus was not like Moses,
Case closed for Deut. 18:18!!
It is so Simple!!
Jesus is God in the human flesh.
There is no other person that we must obey except God.
And that is the message God said in Deuteronomy 18:18

Deuteronomy 18:18 &#9658;

New International Version

I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.

God made Moses as a God and performed miracles through Moses to reveal God to the Pharaoh and to force the Pharaoh to release the Israelite people form bondage back to God.

God through Jesus performed miracles to reveal God the Father to us and Jesus died on the cross to release us from the human bondage of Sin that separates is from God.

The Israelite's were Gods chosen people in bondage separated from God

Jesus on the cross reunited the human race back to God that became separated from God by the sins of man.

Just as the Jews are Gods chosen People with a Covenant with God, Jesus on the Cross brought a Covenant to the Gentiles and united the Gentile into Gods covenant that God made with the Israelite's.

There is no longer Jew, or Gentile but one people united to God under the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31 brought in By Jesus
THE NEW COVENANT

There are two major covenants in the Bible. One is the Mosaic covenant which is a covenant of law, this was conditional. God said do this, obey and he will bless, failure to obey violated his conditions and punishment followed. the New Testaments covenant is one of blood but based on grace, it is unconditional. We receive the mercy and blessings of God not because of anything we do but because of what Christ did. As believers in the New Covenant we operate under grace by which good works are a result. Under the Law (Old covenant) good works were done to receive Gods favor yet there still had to be a sacrifice for sin. As it says that almost all things are cleansed by blood.

Jer.31:31-34:Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.(Quoted in Heb.8:7-12) This is a permanent forgiveness of sin.

Heb.7:18: "For on one hand there was an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,"

Heb.8:7- " For if the first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. "vs. 13 "In that he has said "A new covenant," he has made the first obsolete now what is obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."

The Mosaic cov. was becoming old (in use worn out) and vanishing away in Jeremiah’s time it vanished away with the death of Christ. Heb.8 So it is distinct from the Old Covenant. What it couldn't accomplish Christ did.

The New Covenant-Greek- Karnei Diatheke Last will an testament. an arrangement of one party made for another. to either accept or reject- If accepted one is obligated to keep its terms. there is no altering or changing it since it is God who made it and keeps it. Entering covenant with God means that he is committed to you. Jn.10:27-28 he gives us eternal life, its a gift which lasts forever.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#190391 Sep 25, 2013
Continued:

MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
How many of these apply to Moses?
None?
So jesus was not like Moses,
Case closed for Deut. 18:18!!
It is so Simple!!

THE NEW COVENANT

The Old Testament covenant- is a revelation of the holiness of god in the righteous requirement and standard of the law. Which was a conditional covenant.

The New Testament covenant-A revelation of the holiness of God in a righteous son who empowers those who, believe and receive it to become adopted children of God. was a unconditional cov. The purpose of this new cov. is to do what the Old Testament covenant could not. The New Covenant is based on the shed blood which signed and sealed the covenant under the Mosaic covenant the shed blood of animals could only cover sins temporarily (Heb.8:27).

Under the New Cov. he did it once for all Heb.7:27, we are fully and permanently forgiven (Eph.1:7, Col.2:13).

God gives the believer the power to live his standard by the new birth. he gives the H.Spirit to indwell every believer.

Rom.,8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.3: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

When Christ died the believer's position from the New Covenant changed.

We were crucified with Christ (Gal.2:20) When he died the law died with him and so did we.(Col.2:20) we were buried with him (Rom.6:4) We were made alive with him by his resurrection (Eph.2:5, Col.3:1) we were made joint heirs with Christ and will be glorified with him (Rom.817)

The New covenant involves blood. It is enforced by the death of the testator and operated by grace.

Blood purchased us Rom.3:25; Eph.1:7, Bought with his blood 1Cor.6:20; 1Pt.1:18-19; Col.1:14

Heb.7:27 "Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant."

Heb9:15: "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16: For where a testament is,, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Heb.9:12-12: "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

Rom.5:9: "Much more then having now been justified by his blood we shall be saved from wrath through him."

It was to have gentiles become partakers of the spiritual blessings Eph.3:5-6; Rom.11:16-24. In the new Cov. there is the law of Christ. While the Mosaic covenant had many commandments the law of Christ repeats them all except one (the sabbath). There are also many changes. Ex. Under the Mosaic Cov. some meats were unclean under the New covenant all are clean.

Many of the commandments in the New Testament are intensified. In the Mosaic-Lev. 19:8: "Love your neighbor as yourself. " In the New covenant John l5:13 "Love your neighbor even as I have loved you." This amplified the meaning of the law with Christ as the standard.

Today if one obeys "you shall not steal" It's not because of the Mosaic but because Christ said it. We operate from a new law under Christ who is our instructor through the Holy Spirit..

When Christ died the law of Moses which was temporary was done away with. Rom. 10:4 "Christ is the end of the law for all who believe."
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#190392 Sep 25, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent, MUQ
Case not only closed but dismissed too.
Well said.
Salaams
BMZ
Thank you brother for appreciation.

But see the sequel,

Some people never learn

Salaams

MUQ
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#190393 Sep 25, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus is God in the human flesh.
There is no other person that we must obey except God.
And that is the message God said in Deuteronomy 18:18
Deuteronomy 18:18 &#9658;
..
Are you speaking in English or Gibberish?

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#190394 Sep 25, 2013
Continued:
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
How many of these apply to Moses?
None?
So jesus was not like Moses,
Case closed for Deut. 18:18!!
It is so Simple!!

"As for me, this is my covenant with them, says the LORD. My Spirit, who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of their descendants from this time on and forever, says the LORD." (Isaiah 59:21)
All Glory be unto God through Jesus Christ.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#190395 Sep 25, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you speaking in English or Gibberish?
You are not paying attention MUQ to what the Scripture says.

You do not understand Gods Holy Bible because it was never taught to you.
So its all gibberish to you.

The Quran is about Muhammad the warlord.
A Fantasy book about how a poor uneducated Arab boy brought the pagan Arabs to believe in a religion started by Muhammad and to believe in the one God that Muhammad worshiped as a child.

The Quran is about a religious government formed bu Muhammad and claim to be a prophet of his new formed religious government.

The Holy Bible is about God and His relation to us.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#190396 Sep 25, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
How many of these apply to Moses?
None?
So jesus was not like Moses,
Case closed for Deut. 18:18!!
It is so Simple!!

Continued:

THE NEW COVENANT

Col.2:14-17 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an Holy day, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Eph.2:14-15: " Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of the two one new man' so making peace;"

Gal 2:19-21: "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." Paul says when he received salvation he died through the law, the law kills. He has now been spiritually raised to new life so he can live to God. He is given life by the law of the spirit that is superior to the law that could only bring death.

Rom.8:2-4: "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We can’t reform our old nature man does not have the ability only the Holy spirit does. The Bible teaches that we must crucify the flesh the old nature and live and operate through the new nature. This comes from the inside out not from the outside in. In Rom.6:6 it states that our old man was crucified with him that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin."

Gal 3:11-13:" Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "The righteous man shall live by faith." However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "He who practices them shall live by them."13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree."

When Christ died there were a number of things that took place.

His death was a propitiation this means the wrath of God was satisfied God the father poured out his anger and punishment against sin on his son.(Rom.3:25; l Jn.2:2; 4: 10)

We have been delivered from the kingdom of darkness into light (Col.1:13; Heb.2:14-15) it is our inheritance.

All of our sins were forgiven because when Christ died they were all in the future. The believers past, present, and future sins were totally forgiven so that there is no sin that can cause him to lose his salvation. Blasphemy of the Spirit is not done by anyone who believes so it is not relevant to those who are in Christ.

All our sins are forgiven (Eph.1:7, Col.1:14; 2:13) This means eternal life is a present possession and future possession. If it was only for now it would not be eternal. if it was future than we would not possess it now which means we d not have the Holy Spirit who instills it in us.

We are adopted (Rom.8:15; Gal.4:5 We are regenerated (Jn.3:5-6; Titus 3:5, And put in the body (1 Cor. 12:13, Rom.6:1-10) indwelt by the Spirit of God( 1 Cor. 3:16, 6:19) sealed till the day he comes for us (2 Cor.1:22; Eph.1:3-14, 4:30) empowered for service Eph.5:18.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#190397 Sep 25, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
How many of these apply to Moses?
None?
So jesus was not like Moses,
Case closed for Deut. 18:18!!
It is so Simple!!

Continued:

THE NEW COVENANT

Heb 10:14,17-18 States "For by one offering he has perfected forever them that are sanctified. And their sins and iniquities I will remember no more. Heb.9:26 "He put away sin by himself.

We were given a new nature. We've gone from the nature of Adam to the nature of Christ. We now have the power by the Holy Spirit to rule over the old nature that had us sin but the choice is still up to us with every decision we make (Rom. 12:1; Col. 1: 13). This all because of the New covenant, something the old covenant could never deliver.

MUQ:
Now you know why Muhammad is not the prophet of Deuteronomy 18:18
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#190398 Sep 26, 2013
Singing all the praises for jews and their "change of heart"...

But in reality...

Jews as a whole reject Jesus and curse him and his mother.

And their instance has not changed, but it is Christians who are licking the feel of Jews and "Hoping" they would have change of hearts.

Was that what Deut. 18:18 was about?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#190399 Sep 26, 2013
MUQ wrote:
Mr. Seeker
Fundamental thing about Deut 18:18 is that our prophet meets almost every requirement mentioned in that prophesy
He does not meet the "like Moses" part. He only meets it if one arbitrarily decides what "like Moses" means or in which respects "like Moses" is talking about. But anybody can arbitrarily pick the qualities that they want to mean "like Moses". So how do we know what qualities of Moses it is talking about when it says "like Moses"? Do we just pick whatever suits our needs? Anybody can do that and come up with whatever answer they want. So the only objective way to decide which qualities it means is to consult the same book that says "like Moses" in Deuteronomy 18. And the only thing specific that we find is in 34, and 34 is pretty specific. So when it came time to actually say anything about what it means to be like Moses, the book itself referenced seeing God and performing miracles. So if we take what the book itself says, Muhammad does not meet that part of the prophecy. If you want to pick every other quality not even mentioned by the book, then maybe you can make it work, but that would be you picking your own, arbitrary criteria.

He does not meet from among they brethren. You did not make a convincing case in this area at all. You just created an arbitrary rule that says we can change the meaning to what you want it to be. Usually, when the same exact phrase is used only a mere 23 verses apart, then by default the author means the same thing in both instances unless the author gives some sort of clarification. But the author did no such thing. And then you justified this arbitrary rule by saying that since nobody else has met the criteria, then it must be talking about Muhammad and their brethren meant the Arabs. But the Jews don't think so, some think it was Jeremiah, some think that prophet has not even come yet. There was no specific time frame given. I don't think it could be Jeremiah because again, if we look at the description of what "like Moses" means from Deuteronomy itself, Jeremiah does not fit that and neither does Muhammad. So it would seem like it is either Jesus, or a prophet that has not come yet. Jews believe the Messiah has not come yet, so it's easy for them to think the prophet mentions in 18 has not come yet.

And again, if we apply your logic that it must be Muhammad simply because nobody else has fit the criteria yet (even though he doesn't either), then that same exact logic could be applied to Isaiah 9:6 where we ask who was ever called Mighty God and Prince of Peace as that prophecy does not specify that the person must be called that while he is on earth, and Jesus was and still is called those names. But for some reason, we are not allowed to say that in the case of Isaiah 9:6, but we can switch the rules just when you want to, and we CAN say that in the case of deut 18. See how the rules change just when you need them to?

Then, we have the part of the prophecy that Muhammad DOES meet, and that is 18:20. If one says that dying BUT also resurrecting is not considered a death, then Jesus did not die. But Muhammad most certainly did.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#190400 Sep 26, 2013
MUQ wrote:
Mr. Seeker
Consider Jesus's status:
a. Prophet?
Was jesus a Prophet? You will say Yes,
Was that his Main Title? Now you will start skirmishing, He was God is human form, He was begotten Son of God, he was one third of Holy Trinity, "Only Prophet" is a sort of insult for Jesus.
First of all, I never even said that 18:18 is definitely talking about Jesus. But I think it's more likely to be talking about Jesus than it is Muhammad. And yes, using the word prophet is the only thing about that prophecy that he "might" not fit. But again, there is no hard core rule that says he cannot be a prophet and also much more. What the word "prophet" means in deut is not specified.
MUQ wrote:
Mr. Seeker
b. Like Moses:
Was Jesus like Moses?
Firstly, Jesus was a Jew, Muhammad was not. Secondly Jesus meets the criteria of "like Moses" given in deut 34, Muhammad does not
MUQ wrote:
In their birth, in their death, in their mission and in the way they did their preaching, Moses and jesus were poles apart.
Moses was a Law Giver, Jesus was "to fulfill all laws and prophets".
Moses was a Judge,
Moses was a judge? And was Muhammad a judge?
MUQ wrote:
Jesus never judged any one in his life time.
Jesus sacrificed him for taking away sin, Moses did not do any such things.
Similarities between Moses and Jesus , which you provide is only superficial.
There are not two personalities which are so different from each other as Jesus and Moses.
You are arbitrarily deciding what it means when it says "like Moses". You are arbitrarily picking the qualities for comparison. But if we consult Deuteronomy itself, it tells us what the most important qualities of Moses are and what it means to be like Moses. So you are using whatever qualities you feel like for comparison, whereas I am using Deuteronomy itself and it's own words.
MUQ wrote:
But you will "sell your soul" to prove Jesus was like Moses!!
So you mean that you will not sell your soul to prove it is Muhammad. Your lack of self awareness is astounding. you project on to others what you yourself are doing.
MUQ wrote:
b. Brethren:
This part you highlight as if "This was the most important part of this prophesy", whereas, this is only a minor one and additional quality.
I also mentioned "like Moses" and I mentioned Deuteronomy 18:20
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#190401 Sep 26, 2013
I just want to retouch upon the "judge" part. I do not remember where Moses every called himself a judge. Maybe he did, but I do not recall that. I definitely know that Muhammad never proclaimed himself a judge and always said he was merely a messenger. I DO remember Jesus declaring himself a judge and that when he returns, all judgement shall be upon him. So I have no idea why you even mentioned judge.
MUQ wrote:
When we do not find any such prophet from jewish prophets,
Maybe we do, or maybe that prophet has not come yet
MUQ wrote:
we have to look for the "Other brethren of Jews".
We don't "have to" at all. Even if one says it is not Jesus. There is no time frame given. According to some Jews, neither "the prophet" nor the Messiah has arrived yet. So there is no "have to" about it at all.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#190402 Sep 26, 2013
MUQ wrote:
Singing all the praises for jews and their "change of heart"...
But in reality...
Jews as a whole reject Jesus and curse him and his mother.
And their instance has not changed, but it is Christians who are licking the feel of Jews and "Hoping" they would have change of hearts.
Was that what Deut. 18:18 was about?
Christians are mot concerned about the Jews MUQ.
Just as Christians are not concerned about the Muslims.

Whether Jews and Muslims accept Jesus or not is their problem.
Its their lost if they don't accept Jesus as their Savior.

You don't understand the Bible MUQ.
And you don't understand Gods 10 Commandments.

When I post something MUQ, Muslims don't read it to understand it.
It is simple <MUQ!
WE are created in the image of God, and God expects us to emulate His image in us back to Him.

The 10 Commandments is the moral character of God.
When we break one Commandment we break them all by being separated from God by breaking anyone of Gods Commandments.

God is not going to give us a law if He does not have a punishment for breaking His law.

If God Just forgives sin with out a punishment for sin then there is no reason for god to give us His laws.

Just think about that for now MUQ.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#190403 Sep 26, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>

01. He does not meet the "like Moses" part. He only meets it if one arbitrarily decides what "like Moses" means or in which respects "like Moses" is talking about.

2. He does not meet from among they brethren. You did not make a convincing case in this area at all. You just created an arbitrary rule that says we can change the meaning to what you want it to be. Usually, when the same exact phrase is used only a mere 23 verses apart, then by default the author means the same thing in both instances unless the author gives some sort of clarification. But the author did no such thing. And then you justified this arbitrary rule by saying that since nobody else has met the criteria, then it must be talking about Muhammad and their brethren meant the Arabs.

03. But the Jews don't think so, some think it was Jeremiah, some think that prophet has not even come yet. There was no specific time frame given. I don't think it could be Jeremiah because again, if we look at the description of what "like Moses" means from Deuteronomy itself, Jeremiah does not fit that and neither does Muhammad. So it would seem like it is either Jesus, or a prophet that has not come yet. Jews believe the Messiah has not come yet, so it's easy for them to think the prophet mentions in 18 has not come yet.

4. And again, if we apply your logic that it must be Muhammad simply because nobody else has fit the criteria yet (even though he doesn't either), then that same exact logic could be applied to Isaiah 9:6 where we ask who was ever called Mighty God and Prince of Peace as that prophecy does not specify that the person must be called that while he is on earth, and Jesus was and still is called those names.

Then, we have the part of the prophecy that Muhammad DOES meet, and that is 18:20. If one says that dying BUT also resurrecting is not considered a death, then Jesus did not die. But Muhammad most certainly did.
01. If by "Like Moses" you mean he was not born in Egypt and not thrown into Nile and did not speak Hebrew, and did not part the sea and turn rod into snake....

Then probably you are right, but if "Like Moses" it means to be a Law giver for his people and deliver his people, then our prophet was much more like Moses,

Just look at the "childish way" in which you try to prove that Jesus was like Moses!!

02. Re Brethren, if you are unable to bring any candidate for "Real brothers" then you have to look for "Remote Brothers"!!

03. Now as regards it refers to Jeremiah or other Jewish prophets we read in OT books, the answer is in negative, because Jews at the time of Jesus, asked John the Baptist about "That Prophet".

As regards, that prophet has not come yet into the world, is same as Jews say, then we should wait and wait and keep on waiting.

No Real Prophet has come into the world after our prophet, bringing a New code of Law.

I will have sympathy for you in your long wait.

It seems we have discussed every point of this prophesy and have had our say on it.

Shall we move on and start from NT books?

Unless you have "allergy" to accept our prophet as worthy of Deut. 18:18, I see no reason why you should wait when you have found a "Worthy candidate".

That is why it is mentioned in Quran "Those whom We gave book (i.e. Jews and Christians) recognize him (i.e our prophet) as they recognize their own sons..."

9. Isaiah 9:6, I thought this was about Jesus, why bring it here?
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#190404 Sep 26, 2013
Seeker wrote:
I just want to retouch upon the "judge" part. I do not remember where Moses every called himself a judge. Maybe he did, but I do not recall that. I definitely know that Muhammad never proclaimed himself a judge and always said he was merely a messenger. I DO remember Jesus declaring himself a judge and that when he returns, all judgement shall be upon him. So I have no idea why you even mentioned judge.
<quoted text>
Maybe we do, or maybe that prophet has not come yet
<quoted text>
We don't "have to" at all. Even if one says it is not Jesus. There is no time frame given. According to some Jews, neither "the prophet" nor the Messiah has arrived yet. So there is no "have to" about it at all.
01. Moses "acted" as a judge and condemned people to death.

Our prophet also acted as Judge and punished criminals and law breakers.

You need not have to "call" yourself as judge, your actions speak louder than words.

Jesus in fact "refused" to judge when that woman caught in act of adultery was brought to him.

02. No you will not "have to" accept our prophet. It is still your free choice, but we have brought all evidence in front of you.

Why not be like Jews and wait for "Messiah also", because according to Jews, Jesus does not qualify for the criterion mentioned in OT books, will you accept that?

We we "Must believe" that Messiah has come?

There is no end to such questions, why unnecessarily prolong the debate?

PS:

My stand is different than yours, when you lost "all interest" in the debate, because I was dictating my terms on you!!
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#190405 Sep 26, 2013
MUQ wrote:
Every prophet is a "mouth piece" of God and speaks what God reveals to them.
Why this emphasis on "Put my word in his mouth"...? It means that prophet shall speak "verbatim" what revelation is sent to him.
We do not find that in case of Jesus.
Sure we do, in spades.
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work
23 Jesus replied,“Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25 “All this I have spoken while still with you.
MUQ wrote:
And where are those words of God, put into mouth of Jesus?
They are lost forever, because Jesus did not speak and preach in Greek.
Actually, there was never any mention of putting anything into a book at all. It only says that he will do nothing but speak God's words and not his own. Now, as far as speaking only what God tells him to, have you considered the Satanic Verses? I know you saw me mention these before. Have you read about those where Muhammad acknowledged the gods of the Meccans to appease them, but as the story goes, Gabriel came and rebuked Muhammad for saying that and the next day Muhammad took those words back and abrogated them and claimed they were Satan inspired.
MUQ wrote:
So all that emphasis is gone.
d. Prophet shall speak in God' name:
Is that true for Jesus, yes, but only outwardly.
In case of our prophet, every chapter starts with the Phrase "In the name of Allah, Most gracious , Most merciful".
LOL!! So just because somebody decides to put that in the book they are creating means they are speaking in the name of God? Just because they say so?
MUQ wrote:
And did our prophet did all that to "Qualify for Deut. 18:18"?
He did not read or could read any OT or NT book.
He used to consult with many Jews and Christians. Do your homework. And why would he do that if Allah was really telling him all that he needed to know? And he even didn't get some of the Jewish scripture stories right, maybe because he couldn't remember every correct detail, which was one of the reasons the Jews rejected him.
MUQ wrote:
All these things happened "naturally" and he qualified for every thing of that prophesy, without any twist or turn.
Now you should either accept him or be ready to face the warning of God, that I will call that person to account.!!
LOL!!! Here, how about if I act like Shamma and tell you that you better accept Jesus Christ into your heart or you are going to hell? That doesn't sound very good, does it? But it's not one bit different than what you just did.
MUQ wrote:
And where are those words of God, put into mouth of Jesus?
They are lost forever, because Jesus did not speak and preach in Greek.
Again, Deuteronomy never even mentioned anything about that prophet bringing a book. If the Quran was the only miracle that Muhammad could bring, and it is not even a miracle at all, then why was bringing a book never mentioned when the book itself was everything and the only thing that Muhammad had to show for himself?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#190406 Sep 26, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
01. If by "Like Moses" you mean he was not born in Egypt and not thrown into Nile and did not speak Hebrew, and did not part the sea and turn rod into snake....
No, by "like Moses", I mean that qualities that Deuteronomy itself specified and clarified about in 34. Not any arbitrary qualities that we decide to use for the comparison to suit our own arguments.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Then probably you are right, but if "Like Moses" it means to be a Law giver for his people and deliver his people, then our prophet was much more like Moses,
Somehow you have managed to completely ignore Deuteronomy 34, and I know you saw it.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Just look at the "childish way" in which you try to prove that Jesus was like Moses!!
If it is childish to use Deuteronomy itself to establish the criteria for comparison, then so be it. LOL!!
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
02. Re Brethren, if you are unable to bring any candidate for "Real brothers" then you have to look for "Remote Brothers"!!
03. Now as regards it refers to Jeremiah or other Jewish prophets we read in OT books, the answer is in negative, because Jews at the time of Jesus, asked John the Baptist about "That Prophet".
Well I agree and I said that I don't think it is Jeremiah, I only said that "some" Jews do and others think the prophet has not come yet. But while you are bringing up that verse and talking about what the Jews of that time understood, also note why they even asked John that question. They knew Jesus was a Jew, so if they thought that brethren in 18:18 meant Arabs, they would have never asked that question. This is the third time I have pointed this out to you and you keep ignoring it
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
As regards, that prophet has not come yet into the world, is same as Jews say, then we should wait and wait and keep on waiting.
No Real Prophet has come into the world after our prophet, bringing a New code of Law.
First of all, we don't even know if it is a legitimate code of law. We only have Muhammad's word for it. It would have been nice for him to perform a few miracles as that would make things quite convincing. So for all we know, it was just him making up whatever he needed to make up, and this is why it took him 23 years to make it up. And this is why there is abrogation in the Quran. The Quran was revealed over 23 years because it was Muhammad coming out with a new Sura as his circumstances changed to justify what he wanted to do. He could not predict the future, so he had to come out with new Suras as the circumstances unfolded, whereas God would know all of this in advance and could have given the whole Quran in a very short time period, if not all at once. So this is why things like no compulsion in religion when he had no army, got abrogated and replaced with verses like 9:5 when he had an army.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#190407 Sep 26, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
I will have sympathy for you in your long wait.
It seems we have discussed every point of this prophesy and have had our say on it.
Shall we move on and start from NT books?
Probably not, because the same book you will quote from also claims Jesus' divinity all over the place. So I have no idea in the world why you would ever want to use anything from John as you would be being logically skewed from the very beginning. But if you really insist on continuing despite this logical flaw right from the beginning, and choose to ignore it, then be my guest. you always ignore logical flaws anyway, so this shouldn't surprise me.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless you have "allergy" to accept our prophet as worthy of Deut. 18:18, I see no reason why you should wait when you have found a "Worthy candidate".
I have three good reasons for knowing it is not Muhammad. 17:15, 18:20 and 34:10
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
9. Isaiah 9:6, I thought this was about Jesus, why bring it here?
Because I was trying to show you the logical flaw of saying that because nobody else seems to fit it, then it must be the person that someone is proposing. I thought that if I applied the same logic to Isaiah 9:6 and Jesus, you would see it as logically flawed, as I know you can't see any logical flaws when it comes to speaking about Muhammad, so I thought you could see it if we spoke about someone else. But you still can't see it. What was I thinking? Why would I think that you would actually see this? My mistake.

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