Who Is Allah?

Who Is Allah?

There are 256358 comments on the The Brussels Journal story from Aug 24, 2007, titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

Since: Apr 11

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#189090 Sep 15, 2013
Continued:
Adam

The Man of Dust, the Man from Heaven

The Fall of Adam and Eve in the Qur’an

The root meaning of the word habata is to crash down, to descend, to fall, or to get down. In Surah 2:36 the form used is the imperative, ihbit (ahbituwa in the text), and means simply "Get out! Descend! Fall down!" The same word is used two verses later in the command to the whole human race to descend with them both. The traditions of Islam teach that the Garden, known in Islam as al-Jannatul-’Adn, the Garden of Eden, was in heaven and that Adam and Eve were cast out of Paradise after they had disobeyed God. Both they and their offspring, the whole human race, have since been confined to a temporal, earthly existence where they have all died and been buried. The story of Adam’s expulsion from Paradise reads as follows:

Adam was externed from the Paradise between the zuhr (afternoon) and ‘asr (the declining of day) prayers. His stay in Paradise had been half the day of the next world, and the day there is equal to one thousand years based on the calculation made by the people of this world. He was cast down on a mountain in India known as Nawdh and Eve was cast at Juddah. Ibn Sa’d, Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, Vol.1, p.21

Despite this similarity with the Biblical record of Adam’s sin and fall and the imputation of his transgression to the whole human race, the Qur’an does not pursue the matter further. It thereafter regards sin simply as an act of individual wrongdoing either to be forgiven by Allah or condemned at his pleasure, or to be cancelled out by a good deed. Another passage does, however, strongly emphasise not only the seriousness of the first transgression but also its wider consequences:

So by deceit he caused them to fall. When they had tasted of the tree their shame was revealed to them and they began to cover themselves with leaves from the Garden. And their Lord called to them: "Did I not forbid you that tree and say to you that Satan is a sworn enemy to you?" They said, "Our Lord! We have wronged our souls. If you do not forgive us or have mercy on us, we will be of the losers." He said, "Get down – with enmity between yourselves. And you will have the earth as your abode and provision for a time." Surah 7:22-24

It should be obvious that there is tremendous material here for an effective witness to God’s saving grace in Jesus Christ, the second Adam, who voluntarily descended from heaven to become man, committed no sin, and reversed the effect of Adam’s sin. We shall see how this can be done.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#189091 Sep 15, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Your statement about not even uttering God's name brings up a very interesting point. There are Eastern and/or Mystic concepts that say the word is not the thing. And it refers to people using words so much and categorizing things, that things that are actually unique are not seen for their uniqueness and instead are seen in terms of their category or the word that one has for it. Transcendentalism also says something similar, where a tree is not really a tree or a tree is not really the concept we have for it, and it's existence and essence is actually something completely independent of our ideas for it. Krishnamurti had an interesting thing to say when he said the moment the child learns the name of the bird, that child will never see that bird again. Despite similarities that things have, everything is actually unique and there are no two identical creatures in nature. So the child will not see that unique bird, he will see his preconceived category for it based on the word he has for it.
So words can be helpful, but they can also throw you off the track, especially if we are talking about an abstract notion such as God. So what was alarmingly interesting about the Jewish concept for God is that God did not give them a name for him, as that would then lead them to have false notions for God or to put God into some sort of category. God identified himself in the most core way that one can by simply calling himself "I am". So if the whole thing is made up and fictional, I found this to be alarmingly wise for the author to choose God as not giving himself a name. It's things like this that make me think twice before I say that the whole thing is nothing but a fairy tale, as you might believe. I wouldn't see an author who is simply making things up being this wise and deep.
I think god gave them its name which is YHVH (I am that I am). This is why there is a commandment that say to not take its name in vain. I understood it like that and so do the Jews. My personal view is that it's ridiculous that a god has a proper name like us, but that's what Torah says.

Back to Krishnamurti, he meant in the very moment you try to define something you loose the essence of that thing giving just a partial definition thereof. Is not a big issue if god called itself Robert, Carl or YHVH, the problem starts right when someone tries to define god. We as human beings have only 5 senses plus a brain who tries to elaborate the data it gets, but mankind seems always to forget that our perceptions are limited, hence the subjectivity of reality that surround us.

Now, the name - I am that I am (YHVH), is very interesting since its lead to the essence of that being without trying to determinate it, avoiding therefore the mistake of he subjectivity.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#189092 Sep 15, 2013
The Biblical account of Adam’s Sin and Fall

In the Qur’an it is interesting to note that Satan calls the forbidden tree the "tree of Eternity" (Surah 20:120), another hint to the fact that by disobeying God and eating from it, Adam would implicate the whole of humanity in serious long-term consequences. It is in the Bible, especially the description it gives of the tree, that we obtain a much more comprehensive picture of why God commanded Adam and Eve to leave it alone:

And the Lord God commanded the man saying, "You may eat freely of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die." Genesis 2:16-17

The tree had to be avoided because it was the tree of "the knowledge of good and evil," meaning that if they ate of it, Adam and Eve would come to know what evil was and its distinction from good. In consequence of this, being partakers of evil, they would be cut off from the tree of life, lose their experience of the life of God in their hearts, and eventually die and return to the ground. Hence, when they did sin, God declared:

You are dust, and to dust you shall return. Genesis 3:19

Muslims really have no knowledge or understanding of what it was about the forbidden tree that made the act of eating its fruit so terribly wrong. The Qur’an gives no explanation other than to declare the tree forbidden, but the Bible does in its description of the tree and in Satan’s temptation to Eve when he said:

You will not die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4-5

Satan and his angels had fallen because of their desire to be like God, to oppose his authority, and to set themselves up as the masters of their own destiny (Isaiah 14:12-14, 2 Peter 2:4). Now he was tempting Eve, and through her Adam, to break faith with God and do the same. It was a call to declare independence from God, to refuse to submit to his authority, and to establish their own. When God created Adam he gave him dominion over everything on the earth, in the seas, and over all living creatures (Genesis 1:26). God made man in his own image, in his likeness (Genesis 5:1), meaning that man was able to bear all the attributes of God and reflect his glory. God did not make man already perfected in righteousness but rather in an innocent state with a potential and inclination towards uprightness. "God made man upright" (Ecclesiastes 7:29) and, while putting all things under his feet, only commanded in return that man should be subject to him in his personality, dominion and character.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil symbolised this sole area where man would not have authority. By not eating of it Adam would acknowledge God’s authority over him and that he was called to be a servant of God. Satan’s temptation was to shake off God’s authority and become gods in their own right, to become "like God" and so determine their own destiny. Adam and Eve did not know that the actual result would be exactly the opposite – that they would fall from their dignity and upright state, lose their relationship with God and the spiritual life surging within them, and become evil like the devil instead. The Qur’an also makes Satan mislead them into believing they would benefit from disobeying God and obtain an exalted status of their own when he promises them they would become like angels or immortal beings (Surah 7:20).
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#189095 Sep 15, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: the best way to change, your crime statistics. is to make, some murder legal.
Love you, Rabbee

You always do this at the right time.

Thanks for the advice to Stefano. He would be very pleased to read that.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#189096 Sep 15, 2013
Continued:
The Biblical account of Adam’s Sin and Fall

We will see, it is important to point out to Muslims that the sin of Adam and Eve was not just a transgression. It was a deliberate act of defiance, a renunciation of authority. God’s only command was that they should, in their characters, hearts and inner beings, remain subject to him. Instead they fell for Satan’s temptation that they could become "like God" and so grasped at equality with God. This was tantamount to shirk, associating themselves as partners with God. It was to arrogate to themselves a complete likeness with him in authority and dominion. Quite simply it was an appalling blasphemy. To the unenlightened the act of eating of the forbidden fruit might seem like no more than a transgression of a simple command. It was not. The tree symbolised God’s right to complete authority over man’s obligation to be righteous, faithful, obedient, true and devoted to him. By breaking the command not to eat of its fruit, Adam and Eve thoroughly defied God at the root of their beings, disowning his lordship over their lives. The consequences for the human race have been horrendous.

Did Adam Simply Forget His Lord’s Command?

Muslims traditionally underrate the effect of that first transgression. They claim Adam merely slipped in a moment of temporary forgetfulness and that, once he had repented of his oversight and asked forgiveness, he was duly forgiven. It is vital to show them that the Qur’an takes a far more serious view of the matter, stating plainly that Satan brought about their fall (Surah 7:22) and that Allah deliberately chased them out of the Garden and cast them down to earth where their previous state of peacefulness and felicity would give way to malice and hatred (Surah 7:24). It goes on to appeal to the "Children of Adam" to avoid being seduced by Satan "in the same manner as he got your parents out of the Garden" (Surah 7:27). Their sin was not a single act of transgression that could easily be forgiven as a minor, isolated act of wrongdoing. It was an act of gross rebellion, a total rejection of God’s rule over the whole human race, and it had awful consequences.

Sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned. Romans 5:12

We do not believe that they were cast out of Paradise as the Bible states the Garden was the source of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers on earth (Genesis 2:14). Nonetheless the Muslim belief actually helps to strengthen the effect of their sin. Ask any Muslim if Adam and Eve could have died in heaven, in Jannat al-Firdaus (the Garden of Paradise). They will invariably say "no." Also ask them if they would have been cast out of the Garden to a decaying earth if they had not sinned and again the answer will be "no." Lastly, would their offspring have perished in Paradise? Once again you’ll get the same answer.

Therefore neither Adam nor Eve, nor any of their billions of offspring, would ever have died had they not broken faith with God and been cast out of Paradise. By implication, Islam supports the Biblical teaching that death was the consequence of their sin – firstly, spiritual death and separation from God in the act of rebellion, and then later physical extinction at the end of a temporal life.

Can it really be argued that there was no intention on Adam’s part to disobey God and that his transgression was no more than an excusable lapse of memory? The Qur’an shows plainly that Adam and Eve succumbed to Satan’s temptation and this despite the fact that Allah had warned them that Satan was an adversary who would seek to get them out of the Garden (Surah 20:117). Adam and Eve must both have had incredibly poor memories to forget God’s one command to them and the one consequence they would have wished to have avoided. Satan words to Adam, according to the Qur’an, were:

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#189097 Sep 15, 2013
Continued:
The Biblical account of Adam’s Sin and Fall

O Adam! Shall I lead you to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom which never decays? Surah 20:120

Adam chose to believe Satan and to disobey God. Moreover, in Surah 7:20, Satan actually reminded Adam of Allah’s command to him not to eat of the forbidden tree. How can one possibly sustain the argument that Adam merely "forgot" his Lord’s command, the only negative commandment he ever received and that from God himself? Furthermore, if this was only a minor mistake as Muslims claim, why was the penalty so severe? The whitewashing and diluting of Adam’s transgression by Muslims is usually done in the interests of maintaining the hypothesis in traditional Islam, contradicted by the Qur’an, that all the prophets were sinless.(See the companion volume to this book, Facing the Muslim Challenge, pp.46-48). If Adam was a prophet as they believe, then he too could not actually have sinned. Ask any Muslim, then, who it was who introduced sin into the world, when this happened, what the first sin was, and what the effect on the human race was. Obviously there can be no answer based on any sources. The disobedience of Adam was the great single sin that brought the human race into the decaying, sinful world it struggles with today and its ultimate consequence was the worst that could be imagined, death itself.

To be delivered from this shattering consequence the world obviously needs a deliverance from both sin and death. Merely asking God for forgiveness won’t help. Even though the Qur’an teaches that Adam and Eve were forgiven (the Bible is silent on the subject), Allah never let them back into the beautiful Garden of Paradise where the Tree of Eternal Life was. Instead they struggled on with the hardships of an earthly existence and eventually died. Obviously a lot more than merely a declaration of forgiveness is needed for the human race to find its way back to Paradise and here is where the Christian witness to the Muslim comes in. Let’s see how our common ground on this vital subject can be used as a basis for effective witness to the grace of God as it has been revealed in the Lord Jesus Christ.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#189098 Sep 15, 2013
Shamma wrote:
Continued:
Adam
The story of Adam’s expulsion from Paradise reads as follows:

Adam was externed from the Paradise between the zuhr (afternoon) and ‘asr (the declining of day) prayers. His stay in Paradise had been half the day of the next world, and the day there is equal to one thousand years based on the calculation made by the people of this world. He was cast down on a mountain in India known as Nawdh and Eve was cast at Juddah. Ibn Sa’d, Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, Vol.1, p.21
Was Ibn Sa'ad also up in the Paradise with Jesus, when that happened? Ibn Sa'ad was very famous for telling absurd stories. He was like John.

We don't trust his stories. Ibn Sa'ad was the third in the Liars' Trinity, which had Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham in it.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#189099 Sep 15, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Stefano,
Talking to you is really like talking to a fool! We are not counting numbers.
The point is that if you prescribe the death penalty for murderers and drug dealers/traffickers/pusher, the crimes will surely reduce and will be less. People will think a hundred times before doing that.
In your countries, they know they will not be given death sentence. So, they will continue. And if caught, they know they will spend time in jail and can even be released on good behavior.
The drug dealers are no more active here. We have already hanged many of different nationalities, who were involved in drug trafficking. Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand are also doing the same.
And nobody carries fire arms here. If one does and gets caught, he is sent to reside with Jesus.
Time waster,

If a State gives death penalty for drug dealers and drug possessors, and because of it people would stop to use and trafficking drug, then they would focus onto another thing like for example money laundering, which your country seems to be vulnerable about it.

BTW, according to Singaporean laws and to yourself a man who has killed lots of people, raped and/or favored the raping, stolen and/or favored the stealing, cheated lots of people, had sex with a child, would be sentenced to death or not?

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#189100 Sep 15, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: invoking TheName of G-D, when you are not really on The-Side of G-D - is all vanity. even Abe Lincoln, knew this. with all the G-D is on our side, oh now HE isn't cause G-D is on our side stuff. while the atheist claim, there is no G-D on our side.
Not sure what you talking about it. Who invoked the name of god? I didn't. If you meant the Jews the thing doesn't concerning me nor I think there is someone here that can tell who is on god's side and who is not. Let the believers do what they repute is right, and let this god be their judge.

It would be a mistake from your side to tell what atheists say about god, because within atheism there are a lot of different opinions concerning god. In general what most people (non-atheists) think or know about atheism is the most radical view within that current of thought.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#189101 Sep 15, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: the best way to change, your crime statistics. is to make, some murder legal.
Are you talking about my example if there is any significant different in terms of reduction between the States in U.S that don't have death penalty and those who have, or to the low rate of crimes in Singapore?
Alex WM

London, UK

#189102 Sep 15, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
What vain means is pretty subjective some may agree with what you said some others may take a more extremist view after a rationalization over that commandment. The latters are the Jews who thought that the name of their lord is too holy that an human being is not worth of pronouncing for any whatsoever reason, hence they avoid to put vowels when they write its name or to avoid to pronounce its name at all, they started to use nouns like hashem (the name), adonai (our lord) etc.
Let's ask the expert:
Do you believe in the Trinity?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#189103 Sep 15, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: i do not have to answer to any of you,
Then don't bother to say anything if you are not willing to answer for what you say. Just simply leave. This is a discussion forum, not your own personal play space or test space. And in a discussion forum, if one makes claims and trashes everyone else, they better to be ready to back their claims up properly. And you cannot.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#189104 Sep 15, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: i already have advice from G-D, why would i want my own from you or anyone else?
Because you DON'T have advice from God, and your contradiction of what the Torah clearly says proves that.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#189105 Sep 15, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: hey! i am only giving to you, the same advice G-D came and gave to me.
But God didn't give you that, and your story contradicts the clear statements in the Torah which proves that God did not give you any advice. I don't know who you think is giving you advice, but it's not God and the Torah proves that.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#189106 Sep 15, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Not sure what you talking about it. Who invoked the name of god? I didn't. If you meant the Jews the thing doesn't concerning me nor I think there is someone here that can tell who is on god's side and who is not. Let the believers do what they repute is right, and let this god be their judge.
It would be a mistake from your side to tell what atheists say about god, because within atheism there are a lot of different opinions concerning god. In general what most people (non-atheists) think or know about atheism is the most radical view within that current of thought.
You are trying to rationalize with a certifiable lunatic. It's not going to happen.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#189107 Sep 15, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Love you, Rabbee
You always do this at the right time.
Thanks for the advice to Stefano. He would be very pleased to read that.
Why would you so dishonestly use Jimmie and appease him unless you were as crazy as he is? BTW, I don't think that you are, which is why I even bothered to ask you this. But it really looks quite "disingenuous" on your part.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#189108 Sep 15, 2013
Alex WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's ask the expert:
Do you believe in the Trinity?
He's an Atheist you utter moron. But that doesn't mean that he can't explain what the trinity is supposed to mean. But he is smarter than I am and doesn't waste time doing so with utter retards such as yourself that will never understand the explanation anyway, while also claiming they were an ex priest. Again, you can't even lie as well as a 5 year old.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#189109 Sep 15, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Not sure what you talking about it. Who invoked the name of god? I didn't. If you meant the Jews the thing doesn't concerning me nor I think there is someone here that can tell who is on god's side and who is not. Let the believers do what they repute is right, and let this god be their judge.
It would be a mistake from your side to tell what atheists say about god, because within atheism there are a lot of different opinions concerning god. In general what most people (non-atheists) think or know about atheism is the most radical view within that current of thought.
rabbee: just giving to you the real facts, about using profanely TheName of G-D vainly.

and you should be concerned, when the jews are screwing up again. because of the adverse effects, it has on this world. a bad shepherd, can get a lot of goyeem sheep killed. if there is no world peace, the lying jews are screwing up again. when the jews lie, people die. that is not hard, to figure out. two dead jews, can result in more than a 100 dead goyeem. they need a constant reminder, there not being true to G-D here in TheTorah is murder.

and hey if any atheist, believe their is a G-D or g-ds. then they, ain't really an atheist. and hey i was raised, in a family with a real atheist father. and i am sure i know atheism, better than most alleged atheist.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#189110 Sep 15, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you talking about my example if there is any significant different in terms of reduction between the States in U.S that don't have death penalty and those who have, or to the low rate of crimes in Singapore?
rabbee: the rate of crime, has everything to do with not being true to G-D. it is not related, to whether or not their is a death penalty. as the bias point of any nation, moves away from G-D. it is going to result, in more crime. as it moves closer to G-D truly, your going to see less crime.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#189111 Sep 15, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Then don't bother to say anything if you are not willing to answer for what you say. Just simply leave. This is a discussion forum, not your own personal play space or test space. And in a discussion forum, if one makes claims and trashes everyone else, they better to be ready to back their claims up properly. And you cannot.
rabbee: just because i do not, answer your questions. does not mean i am not answering, those who have not committed blasphemy. and making people aware their is trash in their yard, gives them the chance to clean up their own trash. and does not mean, i am the one who trashed it. and answering the questions, to blasphemers of THE HOLY SPIRIT is wasted by the hog trampling on it.

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