Who Is Allah?

Who Is Allah?

There are 256359 comments on the The Brussels Journal story from Aug 24, 2007, titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

Bryant

Windsor, CT

#186112 Aug 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Please read what I wrote, again very carefully:
Muslims read Qur'aan ONLY in Arabic.
That is why children are taught how to read Arabic early.
Those, who do not understand Arabic listen to the recitation in Arabic ONLY and then translation is provided by the Mullahs all over the world.
Bonus information: Those Muslims, who cannot understand Arabic, do read translations of Qur'aan to understand what it says. However, they do not recite the translations.
Then the vast majority of Muslims are only getting a translation or an interpetation of the text and that is what I said.
Bryant

Windsor, CT

#186113 Aug 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Please do not misinform the readers here.
QUR'AAN DOES NOT SUPPORT THE SO-CALLED ORIGINAL SIN AT ALL.
According to Qur'aan Adam disobeyed and God forgave the couple. It was not intentional.
God knew they were deceived by Satan.
Eve was deceived, but Adam was not.

If God forgave them, then why did He throw them out of the garden?

As for "original sin" in the Qur'an:

My simple definition of "original sin" is:

As Adam went, so we have we all gone, and our race is a fallen race and we sin "by nature."

From the Qur'an:
Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden) and get out of the state of (felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down all (ye people) with enmity among yourselves; on earth will be your dwelling place, and your means of livelihood for a time." (Surah 2:26)
Felicity means the state or quality of being happy.
Enmity means hostile or ill will.

Surah 2:26 tells us that all people will be hostile toward each other from that time on. So a new human nature was born – from happiness to hostility.

I use Yusuf Ali's translation and he said the following about Surah 2:26 in his note #53
Evidently Adam is the type of all mankind and the sexes go together in all spiritual matters.
Ali is saying that Adam was the representative of mankind and when Adam fell all of his children (all of mankind) fell with him

Surah 7:172-173 indicates the same.

When God drew forth from children of Adam - from his loins - their descendants and made them testify concerning themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?" They said: "Yea! We do testify!(This), lest you should say on the day of judgment:'Of this we were never mindful.' Or lest you should say:'Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them; wilt thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?'"

Ali's comment on this verse is:

The words of the text refer to the descendants of Adam; i.e., to all humanity, born or unborn, without any limit of time. Adam's seed carries on the existence of Adam and succeeds to his spiritual heritage. Humanity as such has a corporate aspect.

The Qur'an says:

“…No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another…”(Qur'an 6:164)

I agree. We are all responsible for our own sins. I wasn't in that Garden. I didn't eat the forbidden fruit! However, we are all suffering the consequences of the first sin. We were all born outside of the Garden and do not have access to the Tree of Life, which was also in the Garden.

We all have a sin nature. We all have a propensity to sin.
Bryant

Windsor, CT

#186114 Aug 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
The Christian Bible has no depth and to be frank, there is nothing redeeming in the New Testament. It is only ankle-deep, Seeker.
Well, Revelation indeed shows Jesus as four-footed bloodied lamb.
How can you say the NT has no depth when you don't understand what it says?

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#186115 Aug 21, 2013
Bryant wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you say the NT has no depth when you don't understand what it says?
Please present me something of great depth from the New Testament and I will present something of no depth.

And I might elaborate on something you think is deep but in my view has no depth.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#186116 Aug 21, 2013
Bryant wrote:
<quoted text>
Eve was deceived, but Adam was not.
If God forgave them, then why did He throw them out of the garden?
As for "original sin" in the Qur'an:
My simple definition of "original sin" is:
As Adam went, so we have we all gone, and our race is a fallen race and we sin "by nature."
From the Qur'an:
Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden) and get out of the state of (felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down all (ye people) with enmity among yourselves; on earth will be your dwelling place, and your means of livelihood for a time." (Surah 2:26)
Felicity means the state or quality of being happy.
Enmity means hostile or ill will.
Surah 2:26 tells us that all people will be hostile toward each other from that time on. So a new human nature was born – from happiness to hostility.
I use Yusuf Ali's translation and he said the following about Surah 2:26 in his note #53
Evidently Adam is the type of all mankind and the sexes go together in all spiritual matters.
Ali is saying that Adam was the representative of mankind and when Adam fell all of his children (all of mankind) fell with him
Surah 7:172-173 indicates the same.
When God drew forth from children of Adam - from his loins - their descendants and made them testify concerning themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?" They said: "Yea! We do testify!(This), lest you should say on the day of judgment:'Of this we were never mindful.' Or lest you should say:'Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them; wilt thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?'"
Ali's comment on this verse is:
The words of the text refer to the descendants of Adam; i.e., to all humanity, born or unborn, without any limit of time. Adam's seed carries on the existence of Adam and succeeds to his spiritual heritage. Humanity as such has a corporate aspect.
The Qur'an says:
“…No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another…”(Qur'an 6:164)
I agree. We are all responsible for our own sins. I wasn't in that Garden. I didn't eat the forbidden fruit! However, we are all suffering the consequences of the first sin. We were all born outside of the Garden and do not have access to the Tree of Life, which was also in the Garden.
We all have a sin nature. We all have a propensity to sin.
Qur'aan does not have the concept of Original Sin at all.

There is no such thing as Romans 5:12 in Qur'aan.

You said Eve was deceived but Paul blames Adam in Romans 5:12. Propensity is there but you cannot say that man has a sin nature.

We are not suffering for the consequences of the alleged First Sin. We are suffering for our own mistakes, actions, misdeeds, etc.

Children are born innocent. How can they be called sinful?

The man, who concocted the doctrine of sin in the 5th Century was Augustine and in the 10th Century it became the Church's dogma.

It has nothing to do with God and Jesus has no part in this disgusting doctrine.
Bryant

Windsor, CT

#186117 Aug 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Please present me something of great depth from the New Testament and I will present something of no depth.
And I might elaborate on something you think is deep but in my view has no depth.
That the Messiah died and rose from the dead; thus the Father vindicated everything the Christ said and did.

That God came Himself by taking human nature via the human being Jesus of Nazareth.
Bryant

Windsor, CT

#186118 Aug 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Qur'aan does not have the concept of Original Sin at all.
There is no such thing as Romans 5:12 in Qur'aan.
You said Eve was deceived but Paul blames Adam in Romans 5:12. Propensity is there but you cannot say that man has a sin nature.
We are not suffering for the consequences of the alleged First Sin. We are suffering for our own mistakes, actions, misdeeds, etc.
Children are born innocent. How can they be called sinful?
The man, who concocted the doctrine of sin in the 5th Century was Augustine and in the 10th Century it became the Church's dogma.
It has nothing to do with God and Jesus has no part in this disgusting doctrine.
I have just shown you that the Qur'an does have the concept of original sin.

I gave you verses from the OT saying that mankind does have a sin nature. Everyone has the propensity to sin.

I agree that we all suffer from our own sins.

We also suffer from the disobedience of Adam and Eve. They were thrown out of the garden and died. If they had not disobeyed they would have had access to the tree of life and so would we. Adam and Eve should have lived forever, but after their disobedience they were condemned to die.

I agree that children are not sinful, but eventually they will sin. I believe any child before the age of what God demands of them will go to heaven.

I have already given you verses from the NT where Jesus did believe in "original sin."

The concept of "original sin" is biblical.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#186119 Aug 21, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that my general complaint is that these people have a completely twisted sense of logic, and they don't even have the faintest idea of that. There is little chance of reasoning with them in any truly meaningful way. Nobody ever taught these people how to think properly and rationally. Education seems to be sorely lacking with Muslims on a pretty consistent basis.
Actually, what you wrote applies 100% only to the Christians. Let me show the completely twisted sense of Christian logic and ignorance through John 14:

Jesus:“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in Go; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."

Here, Jesus is clearly telling them that he is going to die. Promises them deluxe rooms and tells them he would take them back. Which means they have to die too. So, he would come back as an angel of death for them. It is obvious that they cannot go back without dying first. Right?

The men could not understand such a simple thing and then Jesus adds:

"You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Thomas said to him,“Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Foolish comment and and a foolish question from clueless Thomas. Thomas was a Christian. Right? lol!

Note that Jesus doe not show him the way, but adds:

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Philip, who is sitting quite bored demands:“Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

Jesus answered:“Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say,‘Show us the Father’?"

And we are told by Christians that this is where Jesus claimed to be the Father. So, Philip had seen the Father and all also had seen the Father Jesus.

Hopeless reasoning and silly argument!

Do you believe in that too? If you do, then I have no choice but to say that you do not think rationally and present no logic.

Would you like me to do some more?

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#186120 Aug 21, 2013
Bryant wrote:
<quoted text>
That the Messiah died and rose from the dead; thus the Father vindicated everything the Christ said and did.

That God came Himself by taking human nature via the human being Jesus of Nazareth.
No depth at all. What depth do you see in that statement, Bryant? It is just an opinion from a person or persons. Also, it carries no weight.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#186121 Aug 21, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the beauty of Islam
008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
Allah does not like people who don't want to fight and kill.
2:216 (Y. Ali) Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
If you can understand the following, then you should not have any difficulty in understanding God's help to the believers in Qur'aan:

I present thy Lord from your Bible:

"Joshua 8
New International Version (NIV)

Ai Destroyed

8 Then the Lord said to Joshua,“Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Take the whole army with you, and go up and attack Ai. For I have delivered into your hands the king of Ai, his people, his city and his land. 2 You shall do to Ai and its king as you did to Jericho and its king, except that you may carry off their plunder and livestock for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city.”"

And to know what the Lord had done to Jericho, please read this:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#186122 Aug 21, 2013
Bryant wrote:
<quoted text>
I have just shown you that the Qur'an does have the concept of original sin.

I gave you verses from the OT saying that mankind does have a sin nature. Everyone has the propensity to sin.

I agree that we all suffer from our own sins.

We also suffer from the disobedience of Adam and Eve. They were thrown out of the garden and died. If they had not disobeyed they would have had access to the tree of life and so would we. Adam and Eve should have lived forever, but after their disobedience they were condemned to die.

I agree that children are not sinful, but eventually they will sin. I believe any child before the age of what God demands of them will go to heaven.

I have already given you verses from the NT where Jesus did believe in "original sin."

The concept of "original sin" is biblical.
Even God never talked about the original sin or the first sin to the past prophets. Do you see any prophet of the OT talking about the original or the first sin?

God is forgiving and merciful and says so even in your own Bible.

Have you ever read this Isaiah 43:25 verse from the Tanakh or from your OT?

"I, yea I erase your transgressions for My sake, and your sins I will not remember."

So, all the prophets, including Jesus and Muhammad taught sincere repentance turning to God.

And that is why Jesus used to say, "Sin no more!"

Once a person turns to God, repents and does not go back to sin, the person is like an innocent child in the sight of God. That is why Jesus said that to enter heavens, one has to be like small children.

There you have it. God is ready to forgive all sins but are the Christians really ready to give up sins?
Bryant

Windsor, CT

#186123 Aug 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
No depth at all. What depth do you see in that statement, Bryant? It is just an opinion from a person or persons. Also, it carries no weight.
Your Allah denies the death of the Messiah, Jesus, making Jesus either a false prophet or a liar.

It has all the weight in the world.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#186124 Aug 21, 2013
Bryant wrote:
<quoted text>
I can only conclude that you cannot read with understanding.
BTW: When the Qur'an confirms what the Christians had in their hands at the time the Qur'an was written, and since what Christians and Jews had in their hands at that time is the text we have today, the Qur'an is confirming what we have today, since our manuscripts pre-date the Qur'an by several hundred years.
No, Bryant.

Qur'aan only talks about the Torah and Injeel given to Moses and Jesus respectively. It does not talk about the Bible or the OT or the New Testament.

Injeel was the knowledge and wisdom given to Jesus by God.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#186125 Aug 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Qur'aan does not have the concept of Original Sin at all.
There is no such thing as Romans 5:12 in Qur'aan.
You said Eve was deceived but Paul blames Adam in Romans 5:12. Propensity is there but you cannot say that man has a sin nature.
We are not suffering for the consequences of the alleged First Sin. We are suffering for our own mistakes, actions, misdeeds, etc.
Children are born innocent. How can they be called sinful?
The man, who concocted the doctrine of sin in the 5th Century was Augustine and in the 10th Century it became the Church's dogma.
It has nothing to do with God and Jesus has no part in this disgusting doctrine.
Are children born from sinless parents?
Bryant

Windsor, CT

#186126 Aug 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
If you can understand the following, then you should not have any difficulty in understanding God's help to the believers in Qur'aan:
I present thy Lord from your Bible:
"Joshua 8
New International Version (NIV)
Ai Destroyed
8 Then the Lord said to Joshua,“Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Take the whole army with you, and go up and attack Ai. For I have delivered into your hands the king of Ai, his people, his city and his land. 2 You shall do to Ai and its king as you did to Jericho and its king, except that you may carry off their plunder and livestock for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city.”"
And to know what the Lord had done to Jericho, please read this:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...
And what does the Qur'an say about the flood and Sodom and Ghormorrah?
Bryant

Windsor, CT

#186127 Aug 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Even God never talked about the original sin or the first sin to the past prophets. Do you see any prophet of the OT talking about the original or the first sin?
God is forgiving and merciful and says so even in your own Bible.
Have you ever read this Isaiah 43:25 verse from the Tanakh or from your OT?
"I, yea I erase your transgressions for My sake, and your sins I will not remember."
So, all the prophets, including Jesus and Muhammad taught sincere repentance turning to God.
And that is why Jesus used to say, "Sin no more!"
Once a person turns to God, repents and does not go back to sin, the person is like an innocent child in the sight of God. That is why Jesus said that to enter heavens, one has to be like small children.
There you have it. God is ready to forgive all sins but are the Christians really ready to give up sins?
Of course repentance means a turn-a-round, towards God instend of away from Him.

The problem is everyone kept on sinning even though they asked for forgiveness and prayed. They made the same sins over and over again.

Why do you think God set up the sacrificial system?

What is the Day of Atonement all about?

Do you think you can keep on sinning and be forgiven?
Bryant

Windsor, CT

#186128 Aug 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Bryant.
Qur'aan only talks about the Torah and Injeel given to Moses and Jesus respectively. It does not talk about the Bible or the OT or the New Testament.
Injeel was the knowledge and wisdom given to Jesus by God.
You forgot the Psalms, BMZ.

Why doesn't the Qur'an mention all of the prophets mentioned in the Hebrew Bible? Why leave so many out?

Injeel means "gospel" doesn't it. "Gospel" means good news.

What was the good news Jesus brought?

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#186129 Aug 21, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text> Are children born from sinless parents?
Sure. Why not? Do you think sinless parents are not making love?

Even if parents are sinful, the child born is sinless. Jesus agrees with me.

That is why Jesus said that you have to be like children, if you want to go to heaven. He did not mean that from a grown up man, you had to shrink down to the size of a baby.

Why can't Christians use brain before writing anything and why are they so irrational and don't use logic?
Is that forbidden by the Church?

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#186130 Aug 21, 2013
Bryant wrote:
<quoted text>
And what does the Qur'an say about the flood and Sodom and Ghormorrah?
The disbelievers were punished in that flood. Noah was told to build an ark or a boat to save himself and the small number of believers. The flood was local or regional.

The gays were punished and wiped out. Lot survived but his wife did not because she stayed behind.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#186132 Aug 21, 2013
Bryant wrote:
<quoted text>
You forgot the Psalms, BMZ.

Why doesn't the Qur'an mention all of the prophets mentioned in the Hebrew Bible? Why leave so many out?

Injeel means "gospel" doesn't it. "Gospel" means good news.

What was the good news Jesus brought?
Yes, I forgot to mention. Psalms was granted to David. Sorry about forgetting that.

Judaism considers many prophets as small prophets. Qur'ann talks about the important ones.

Translators use the word gospel but Injeel does not really mean gospel. Also, one cannot say that the four gospels were given to Jesus by God.

One can see INJEEL in Matthew 5-7 and in the parables.

Good night from Singapore

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Pagan/Wiccan Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News 'Everyone will be Muslim because of our stupidi... Jan 14 Einstein Nukes 16
News Harrogate mother says foster families are relig... (Nov '15) Dec 29 Sugar plum 50
News Who the Crusaders Are in 2016 Dec 28 Playa 7
confusion 3 Dec 26 taylor810 1
confusion Dec 26 taylor810 2
News The war on Christmas (Dec '10) Dec 26 Eagle 12 4,912
News What's wrong with wishing others a Merry Christ... (Dec '08) Dec 26 Jesus Is 52
More from around the web