Who Is Allah?

Aug 24, 2007 Full story: The Brussels Journal 207,604

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Full Story
Eric

Wheaton, IL

#183425 Jul 23, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: don't believe you can find a command, to justify what you just said.
I have your own statement above. What better source could there be?
Eric

Wheaton, IL

#183426 Jul 23, 2013
yehoshooah adam
Denver, CO
#183376


rabbee: all you have to do, is to agree with them. so in essence they do apply, to everyone here in TheTorah. whether you are male of female, you are required to reject those are in non-compliance. even the command that no male, shall like with another male as with a woman. since it also violates the command, to be fruitfull and multiply, and the first command. all sins violate, the first command of G-D. all sinning is a symptom of not being, true to G-D.

__________

So, Just as everyone can acknowledge the 611; everyone can acknowledge the 2
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#183427 Jul 23, 2013
uhuh wrote:
<quoted text>
the characters in the gospels may be historical
but their account in the narrative is mostly made up FICTION (especially in the Gospel coming out of the john)
Jesus the Jew did not claim divinity
1.I have noted the avoidance but let me ask you AGAIN which one of your rabbis are ONE with God?

2. Which one of them came down from heaven?

3. Which one of them can forgive your sins?

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#183428 Jul 23, 2013
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Before you come up with utter nonsense, please stop and think, Shamma.
Even if we go along with your "original/inherited" sin concept, surely God can CREATE a very pure person representing ALL races, chop his head off and be done with it.
Why confuse the issue by involving a Jewish woman and eventually a Jewish Jesus? The final insult is the killing of the poor man. He was not sacrificed for any sin. He was murdered by brutally like a convict.
Sacrifice has rituals and rules.
Please stop claiming that the murder of the poor man is some kind of sacrifice.
That would not be Godly, and God would be committing sin against Himself.
Only God can forgive sin.

What you lack Alex is respect for the integrity of God.

God's Words - God's Integrity
Integrity means: Honesty, soundness, etc.• God's Word IS a matter of god's integrity. Either God is to be believed, or it matters little what else is debated of Him.

This issue of the soundness of God's Word; of the presence of God's Words yet today existing preserved is an issue of god's integrity, of whether God is to be believed.

If God has no integrity, then all He stands for is not.

The Author of our Bible said He would preserve His Word forever, AND TO every generation!

If He did not, Cannot, He is the liar; His integrity is faulty, NOT the Bible corrupters.

If His Word has not been "Perfectly" preserved, free of error, He is no more than man and has done no more than man alone could do.

I say again, the issue is Divine Integrity!

The Bible says that God warned Adam about eating the forbidden fruit:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die (Genesis 2:17).

Eve also understood this warning as she repeated it to Satan.

But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die (Genesis 3:3).

Did they actually die when they ate the forbidden fruit? The Bible says that they did not physically die the moment they ate the fruit but lived on many years afterward. Is this a contradiction? The answer is, No. There are several ways in which to understand the sense in which Adam and Eve died.

Three Types Of Death

The Bible lists three types of death. There is physical death when the body dies. A second type of death is spiritual death - a separation of the spirit from the body. A third type of death is eternal death - permanent separation of humanity from God.

Death Was Spiritual

Adam and Eve did die when they ate the forbidden fruit, but their death was spiritual, not physical. The main idea behind death is separation. The death that Adam and Eve experienced when they ate the forbidden fruit was immediate separation from God.

We will be eternally separated from God (spiritual death).

Isaiah 59:1 (NLT) Listen! The LORD is not too weak to save you,
and he is not becoming deaf. He can hear you when you call.
Isaiah 59:2 (NLT) But there is a problem--your sins have cut you
off from God. Because of your sin, he has turned away and will not
listen anymore.

It is Gods words spoken to Adam. and Adam Tested Gods integrity , and Adam lost out, Adam died an instant spiritual death and lost his friendship with God, and it was permanently.

There is no record of God telling Adam and eve that if they disobeyed God, that God would forgive them.

In Isaiah 59:2 God spoke through the prophet Isiah telling Isiah:
Isaiah 59:2 (NLT) But there is a problem--your sins have cut you
off from God. Because of your sin, he has turned away and will not
listen anymore.

Is God a liar Alex?

How did God solve this problem with out loosing Gods integrity Alex?
Greg

New York, NY

#183429 Jul 23, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
Good questions to give to a Christian.
I also wondered why your god needs a partner to have a son? Isn't he self-sufficient and almighty?
To call someone a son automatically means that he has a mother and a father. In the case of Jesus the Son, his father is the Father and his mother is the Mother of God.
To produce a co-equal without having a mate is like a virus replicating itself. The product then is not called a son but a clone.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#183430 Jul 23, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
Good questions to give to a Christian.
I also wondered why your god needs a partner to have a son? Isn't he self-sufficient and almighty?
Why did you wonder? Wasn't my post clear to you?

Is God a man that he should have a son?

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#183431 Jul 23, 2013
Greg wrote:
<quoted text>

To produce a co-equal without having a mate is like a virus replicating itself. The product then is not called a son but a clone.
Thanks for giving the right word Clone to Colonna. Enjoyed reading that.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#183432 Jul 23, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>That would not be Godly, and God would be committing sin against Himself.
Only God can forgive sin.
What you lack Alex is respect for the integrity of God.
God's Words - God's Integrity
Integrity means: Honesty, soundness, etc.• God's Word IS a matter of god's integrity. Either God is to be believed, or it matters little what else is debated of Him.
This issue of the soundness of God's Word; of the presence of God's Words yet today existing preserved is an issue of god's integrity, of whether God is to be believed.
If God has no integrity, then all He stands for is not.
The Author of our Bible said He would preserve His Word forever, AND TO every generation!
If He did not, Cannot, He is the liar; His integrity is faulty, NOT the Bible corrupters.
If His Word has not been "Perfectly" preserved, free of error, He is no more than man and has done no more than man alone could do.
I say again, the issue is Divine Integrity!
The Bible says that God warned Adam about eating the forbidden fruit:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die (Genesis 2:17).
Eve also understood this warning as she repeated it to Satan.
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die (Genesis 3:3).
Did they actually die when they ate the forbidden fruit? The Bible says that they did not physically die the moment they ate the fruit but lived on many years afterward. Is this a contradiction? The answer is, No. There are several ways in which to understand the sense in which Adam and Eve died.
Three Types Of Death
The Bible lists three types of death. There is physical death when the body dies. A second type of death is spiritual death - a separation of the spirit from the body. A third type of death is eternal death - permanent separation of humanity from God.
Death Was Spiritual
Adam and Eve did die when they ate the forbidden fruit, but their death was spiritual, not physical. The main idea behind death is separation. The death that Adam and Eve experienced when they ate the forbidden fruit was immediate separation from God.
We will be eternally separated from God (spiritual death).
Isaiah 59:1 (NLT) Listen! The LORD is not too weak to save you,
and he is not becoming deaf. He can hear you when you call.
Isaiah 59:2 (NLT) But there is a problem--your sins have cut you
off from God. Because of your sin, he has turned away and will not
listen anymore.
It is Gods words spoken to Adam. and Adam Tested Gods integrity , and Adam lost out, Adam died an instant spiritual death and lost his friendship with God, and it was permanently.
There is no record of God telling Adam and eve that if they disobeyed God, that God would forgive them.
In Isaiah 59:2 God spoke through the prophet Isiah telling Isiah:
Isaiah 59:2 (NLT) But there is a problem--your sins have cut you
off from God. Because of your sin, he has turned away and will not
listen anymore.

Is God a liar Alex?

How did God solve this problem with out loosing Gods integrity Alex?
God is not a liar, Shamma. The Church and the men, who founded Christianity, ARE the Liars.

You have already butchered God and still talk about God's integrity?

"“Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground.

Does the clay say to the potter,‘What are you making?’

Does your work say,‘The potter has no hands’?"

Have you ever read this before?

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#183433 Jul 23, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Good questions to give to a Christian.
I also wondered why your god needs a partner to have a son? Isn't he self-sufficient and almighty?
God has a Son and Holy Spirit because it is His will to have them.

God is the author of Wisdom, and in Gods Wisdom His Son and Holy Spirit existed within Gods wisdom, and by bringing Jesus and the Holy Spirit forth by His Will into exist, completed Gods knowledge of all things including omnipresence the state of being everywhere at once.
And Having total knowledge; knowing everything: an omniscient, omnipresence, omnipotent, deity; Having unlimited or universal power, authority, and force; all-powerful.

A non-trinitarian God is limited and is not omnipresence and is fixed in one position setting on a Thrown out side of time and space.
And is not omniscient cannot know all things, and needs messengers to inform Him of things happening in the world He created,

It by the wisdom of God that God is a Trinity
Matthew 3:17
New International Version (©2011)
And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

God is self sufficient in wisdom and knowledge of all things before the world was created.

And it is out of Gods love for us before we were created that God planned our relationship with God through His Son Jesus.

As the Bible says all things were per-ordained by God before the world was created.

It is by rational reasoning that we know that if God was not love before He created the world, God then would not be sufficient in all things.
And we know God is sufficient in all things.

Why did God make us? To answer that, we need to know three things:
First, it wasn't because he needed us:

"The God who made the world and everything in it … is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything" (Acts 17:24-25).

And he didn't make us because he was lonely. Long before we were here, God already had "company" with his Son and the Holy Spirit, referred to in Genesis 1:26, "Let us make man in our own image."

And he didn't make us because he needed his ego fed. It's not like God made us to satisfy some craving to be worshiped. God is totally secure in who he is—without us.

Second, despite not needing us, God chose to create us anyway, out of his great love: "I have loved you with an everlasting love" (Jeremiah 31:3). Yes, God loved us before he even created us. It's impossible to get our heads around that idea, but it's true; that's what "everlasting" love means.

God is love (1 John 4:8), and because of that love and his wonderful creativity, he made us so we can enjoy all that he is and all that he's done.

Third, God created us to fulfill his eternal plan.
God, in his infinite wisdom, chose to make us a part of his eternal plan.

What part do we play in this plan? Well, the Bible is full of instructions for how we should live our lives. But here are a few key verses to remember:
1. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength" (Deuteronomy 6:5).
2. "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39).
3. "We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do" (Ephesians 2:10).

We're also part of the war between God and Satan, and God's ultimate plan to defeat Satan. By putting our faith in God, we can defeat Satan and his lies (see Ephesians 6:10-18).

Finally, perhaps the most important part we play in God's eternal plan is to point people to eternal life with God—through his Son Jesus Christ.
The Bible calls this our "ministry of reconciliation" (2 Corinthians 5:18-19).

That's why we're here. But it's also important to note that we have a choice in all of this. When God created us, he didn't make us pawns in some cosmic chess game. We're not his toy soldiers. God gives us freedom of choice.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#183434 Jul 23, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
God is not a liar, Shamma. The Church and the men, who founded Christianity, ARE the Liars.
You have already butchered God and still talk about God's integrity?
"“Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,‘What are you making?’
Does your work say,‘The potter has no hands’?"
Have you ever read this before?
You are insane!
You have no sense of reality of what I have enlightened you through my posting.
You express God to me as God being Muhammad chopping off some infidels head.
Its shameful that the only God Muslims know is their evil master Muhammad.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#183435 Jul 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
But the Jews cannot identify what immediate relief was provided or any special child that was a sign. The verses give no time frame. Also, why is a childbirth itself supposed to be a "sign"? However, if it was a virgin birth, then that most definitely is quite a sign.
MUQ wrote:



2.

Look, I said this before. Saying that anybody fulfills a prophecy is always ultimately a guess, and one can only make their best guess, and people on all sides will disagree based on what they would like to be the truth. First, you see if there is anything that outright excludes the person from being the one prophecized, and if there is, there is no need to go any further. I see nothing that outright excludes Jesus from being the fulfillment of the prophecy. Ay most, one could say that he has not set up a kingdom, but then again, Jesus himself predicted his death and resurrection and predicted his return and how he will rule over all things. So the fulfillment could be said to be started, but not yet completed. There are no specifics given that would exclude this possibility.



Then, we take a look at how much similarities this person has to the prophecy, and that's where the guessing begins.

This seems to be the most rational way to examine something like this.
Ans.

A. Emmanuel Prophesy:

01. Why would Jews would go "looking for the child"? He had nothing to do with the prophesy. The prophesy was about in what time frame enemies of Ahaz would be vanquished. The Child will not take part in that.

02. The Virgin birth is never intended here and has no connection with the birth of Jesus.

03. Emmanuel meaning God with us, is also no connection with Jesus, as I mentioned that no one called Jesus as "Emmanuel" during his life time, neither Jesus said it was his name.

B. Jesus and his kingdom:

01. This is beside the point, what Kingdom Jesus shall have. The point is that Jesus did not sit on the "throne of David".

02. Jesus' Crucifixion and resurrection is another topic and not connected with our discussion.

03. There are enough evidences that all events recorded in Gospels are for "hearsay", there is not a single "eyewitness" account.

C. How to interpret any prophesy:

01. We should first look in the context and see if there is really a prophesy or not in those verses.

02. Then we should list out ALL the points mentioned in that prophesy and then see how many our "prospective candidate" meets them.

03. If he fulfills "majority and most critical of these properties" then he can be considered a "prospective candidate".

04. But if he fulfills only outer criterion and misses "important points" then he is certainly not a candidate for that.

05. We should be objective and not keep on unnecessarily "multiplying these prophesies".

06. Even if one or two "clear cut prophesies" about Jesus are enough to prove that he was prophesized by OT prophets.

PS:

As I told you, I do not deny that Jesus was not prophesized by earlier prophets.

What I want are some clear prophesies about him, that do not pose "difficulties" and you have to twist and bend and frame "strange rules" to fit it on Jesus.

When we will see prophesies about our prophet in OT and NT books, we will see, that we do not need all these twists and bends. And we do not say that OT and NT books are "filled with prophesies" about our prophet.

But let us get over the subject of Jesus and his advent foretold in OT books.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#183436 Jul 23, 2013
Atheist Silurist wrote:
<quoted text>
I would also like to know why people still believe in such mindless nonsense?
What would happen if Jesus had come in modern times? He claims Satan appears to him and offers him the world if he would worship him, then he comes out of that experience preaching the kingdom. He hears voices. There are no signs and wonders. He would've been locked up as a demon possessed lunatic. He is executed for capital crimes and his followers say he bodily rose from the dead and they saw him go to heaven. They would've been labeled liars and false witnesses. Who in their right mind would believe such garbage today? Part of the lure of Christianity is its size and establishment but that doesn't mean it's true.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#183437 Jul 24, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>What would happen if Jesus had come in modern times? He claims Satan appears to him and offers him the world if he would worship him, then he comes out of that experience preaching the kingdom. He hears voices. There are no signs and wonders. He would've been locked up as a demon possessed lunatic. He is executed for capital crimes and his followers say he bodily rose from the dead and they saw him go to heaven. They would've been labeled liars and false witnesses. Who in their right mind would believe such garbage today? Part of the lure of Christianity is its size and establishment but that doesn't mean it's true.
Jesus christ SHALL return to earth at the appointed time and place decided by God. And it shall be very close to the Final Hour and is one of the Major Sign for approaching hour.

His main job will be to slay the Anti Christ, who shall be tormenting people on this earth.

He will clarify all the "Myths" that Pauline Christianity has put around him, he will clarify that he was no God, no Son of God and No person in the Unholy Trinity.

He will clarify that he did not die on cross and there was no question of any resurrection.

That would end all conflicts between Islam, Judaism and Christianity and there will be one Universal religion in which ALL CHILDREN OF ADAM shall be united once again.

This is what Islamic teachings are about Second Coming of Jesus.

Find holes in it, if you can.

Allah Knows Best.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#183439 Jul 24, 2013
PS:

The followers of Anti Christ shall meet a humiliating defeat, and we are told that majority of them will be Jews, who denied the "original Messiah" Jesus Christ, the Son of Mary.
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#183440 Jul 24, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
It had nothing to do with what God should do.
It has everything to do with what God should do according to you.
You have interpreted the relationship between God and his messenger in a way that the messenger has been given or assumed divine qualities either directly or through a form of ostensible authority.
We can use your logic to assign divinity to many others.
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#183441 Jul 24, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>What would happen if Jesus had come in modern times? He claims Satan appears to him and offers him the world if he would worship him, then he comes out of that experience preaching the kingdom. He hears voices. There are no signs and wonders. He would've been locked up as a demon possessed lunatic. He is executed for capital crimes and his followers say he bodily rose from the dead and they saw him go to heaven. They would've been labeled liars and false witnesses. Who in their right mind would believe such garbage today? Part of the lure of Christianity is its size and establishment but that doesn't mean it's true.
Very good observations, Susan.
There is another KEY point the Church is unable counter.
Satan appears to have had dealings with God in the past almost since inception including the famous serpent episode!
Satan and God appear to be fully familiar with each other, albeit God has very distinct advantage over Satan.
When Satan tempted the BJ, with limited bounties that the eye can see, surely Satan should have known in advance that he was dealing with, BJ the " "Christian god of Israel"!!!
If Satan had any brains he would have had to offer a whole lot more than planet earth or even this universe!
To tempt "god", Satan needs to offer something that is bigger than God himslef, which is impossible!

Therefore, clearly Satan tempted a man and not god in any shape or form!

This kills off any attempt by the Church to turn BJ into "god".
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#183442 Jul 24, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did you wonder? Wasn't my post clear to you?
Is God a man that he should have a son?
Nice one!

You know what his problem is, bro?
He is unable to get out of his Christian closet syndrome.

Islam is very clear about such a SIMPLE matter:

- A man needs a woman (or her eggs) or a woman needs a man (or his sperms) to have a son or daughter.

- God is NOT a human.

- God is THE (self sufficient) creator.

- God does NOT need a son or daughter.

- Then how can they say that God has a son or daughter, which is (usually!) a human act involving the opposite sexes?

Salaams, Alex WM
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#183443 Jul 24, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>You are insane!
You have no sense of reality of what I have enlightened you through my posting.
You express God to me as God being Muhammad chopping off some infidels head.
Its shameful that the only God Muslims know is their evil master Muhammad.
lol...
Are you sure, Shamma?
The evil master is tempting you from a pole doing his naked dance. Look very closely ....His one eye is shut. That is quite telling.
Satan is very clever, Shamma.
He has lured you away from God to worshipping a naked man.
Hope you wake up soon.
Good luck.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#183444 Jul 24, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
believe in G-D, here and now in TheTorah. and you shall improve, G-D shall see to this.
Okay, so what you mean by "here in TheTorah" is living in the here and now. If so, why don't you just say so? What is all of the jargon about? I'm aware of this idea and have been for about 15 years. I didn't have God visit me. God doesn't need to.

There is a mystic concept called the eternal moment where one lives in the present moment. The concept says that the only thing that is real is the present moment, which goes on and on and on. The past and future aren't real, they are merely mental constructs or concepts of the mind. They might be accurate concepts (and sometimes not) and they can be useful, but they are still merely mental concepts. The past is a memory. The future is an expectation. But the only thing that is actual reality is the present moment. When a past event occurred, it did so in the present moment. When the future arrives, it does so in the present moment. So the present moment is actually the only thing that exists in reality, and it goes on and on and on. This is called the eternal moment because when one does not think about the past and future and focuses on the present moment, time itself seems to disappear because time itself is also a mental construct that is created by comparing our past to the present moment and comparing the present moment to the future.

The mind often lives in the past and future, but rarely the present. So when we see something, we are not seeing that thing in it's true present moment reality and therefore don't see what that thing really is, and instead we use our past memories and categorize what we see based on those. This involves the eastern concept of "labels" where we don't see the actual reality of something, we see our label for it instead. And then, we decide whether this thing will help us or hurt us, and see it with our concept of the future. So we never pay attention to what that thing really is in it's present state in the present moment. All the mind sees is the past and future.

It's very difficult to constantly be "present" and usually only the best gurus or mystics can do this, and there are plenty of fake gurus. But if one becomes present and is so focused on that, the idea of future threat or even death disappears because we are only concentrating on what is happening now and doing the right thing now because we see things clearly and see them for what they actually are. This is why this is called the "eternal present moment", which just goes on and on and on and the mind never thinks of eventual death. Whether that will occur or not is irrelevant to someone who is constantly present. They are only concerned about seeing true reality which can only be found in the present moment. There is a difference between "everlasting" life, which is still within time. It is time perduring forever. But eternal means timeless no time. It means something outside of time itself where one is so focused on the present that one no longer has any concerns of the past and future and therefore lives in eternal life, not everlasting life. So the eternal life that everyone is searching for is right now, right in front of our eyes but nobody knows that. So if one is completely focused on the present, from moment to moment, heaven and hell are no longer concerns, as they will take care of themselves. The only concern is doing the correct thing in the present moment and seeing it the correct way and seeing true reality and if one focuses on that, this is where God is found and everything takes care of itself. So GanEden, as you say, is actually right here and right now and we can enter it at any moment, but we don't, and God is waiting for us to do so and live there, or live that way, which would be a more accurate way to describe it. So if this is what you are actually saying, then I understand and we can actually discuss this and much more.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#183445 Jul 24, 2013
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice one!
You know what his problem is, bro?
He is unable to get out of his Christian closet syndrome.
Islam is very clear about such a SIMPLE matter:
- A man needs a woman (or her eggs) or a woman needs a man (or his sperms) to have a son or daughter.
- God is NOT a human.
- God is THE (self sufficient) creator.
- God does NOT need a son or daughter.
- Then how can they say that God has a son or daughter, which is (usually!) a human act involving the opposite sexes?
Salaams, Alex WM
Thank you, bro.

Every time we render Shamma and other polemic Christians speechless, Stefano butts in with his incoherence.

Stefano doesn't believe in God but he believes that God has a son. lol!

Salaams
BMZ

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