Ans.01. What happens if we say that a prophesy seems to be talking about someone because someone has some similarities to the prophecy, but there is an element or part of that prophesy that would exclude that person from being the person prophesized?
It's pretty funny how you said that this part of Isaiah 9 doesn't mean much and could mean anybody.
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders."
And you completely ignored the second part of the verse
"And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Now you saw that second part and purposefully ignored it when you tried to say that Isaiah 9 could mean anybody in your reply to me...
But either way, for the sake of argument, why don't we just say that Jesus was never prophecized in the OT at all and move the discussion forward, ok?
If you want to know how I try to judge whether a prophecy is talking about a certain person or not, here it is. First of all, telling whether a person meets a prophecy or not is always a guess because often prophecies can be cryptic..
Is that clear enough for you? Can we move on now?
MUQ, I forgot to mention one other thing that I use to determine whether a person fulfills a prophecy or not. If the person who is supposed to fulfill the prophesy even mentions the person who made the prophesy of him and says that that prophet spoke of him, then it becomes even more likely that the person is the person prophesized, because now the person himself is even specifically mentioning the person who prophesized him and is making the claim that he is that person who the prophet predicted would come.
01. I think the "proper" approach should be to list "All" the qualities mentioned in the prophesy. And then check out "How many" are fulfilled by the candidate.
If we find fulfillment on "Most" points, then we will be sure that it is for the intended person.
If we find many "key element" missing, then we should look for another candidate.
02. Regarding Isaiah 9:6, I already mentioned that it speaks of someone who will free the Yoke of Jews, He will be a ruler and sit on the Throne of David.
In between , a "piece is added" that a "Child is Born, a Son is given and he will be called such and such".
Jesus was not called all those names during his life time, his mission was very brief and he did not deliver Jews, nor he set on the Throne of David.
03. I do not want to "guess" to whom it was actually made. I am only concern with that it does not fit Jesus.
04. I think most Christians "jump" to fit any and every prophesy on the neck of Jesus, without fully analyzing all the qualities mentioned in that.
And that is why some "Zealots" say that there are hundreds and thousands of prophesies about Jesus and some say that "Jesus is the main subject of OT books"!!
05. I politely asked you to mention another "clear cut" prophesy about Jesus from OT books, so we can see how it fits Jesus.
06. This dialog will be helpful to us when we discuss about our prophet prophesized in OT and NT books.
07. I am not unnecessarily prolonging this discussion , this is step by step process which I mentioned in the beginning of my discussion.
Regarding your last point, if Jesus clearly said that this prophesy is about me, then we will accept it.
But jesus saying "Moses wrote about me" does not mention that you put "every prophesy which Moses made on Jesus.
We should not be of "closed mind" and be objective in our analysis. If Jesus did not fulfill one prophesy, we should look for an alternate person.