Who Is Allah?

Who Is Allah?

There are 256361 comments on the The Brussels Journal story from Aug 24, 2007, titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

Seeker

Lowell, MA

#182767 Jul 13, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
Your post was hilarious and foolish and now you have written another absurd post.
How many Jews were killed when Jerusalem was taken over, immediately after Prophet's death?
Answer: None
The Jews weren't the army that ruled over Jerusalem. Why didn't you ask how many people were killed? That changes the question drastically, deceiver. Do you mean that Muslims just walked right into Jerusalem?
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact, Jews were allowed to return by Umar. It was under Christians.
How many Christians were killed? Answer: None
OK, so nobody was killed right? They just walked in and everybody said, take us over. In fact, that's how it happened all over the Arabian Peninsula, right?

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php...
(Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture,) This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were DEFEATED, the people entered Allah's religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims' control. Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination. The Messenger sent his intent to various Arab areas around Al-Madinah to gather forces, and he collected an army of thirty thousand. Some people from Al-Madinah and some hypocrites, in and around it, lagged behind, for that year was a year of drought and intense heat. The Messenger of Allah marched, heading towards Ash-Sham to fight the Romans until he reached Tabuk, where he set camp for about twenty days next to its water resources. He then prayed to Allah for a decision and went back to Al-Madinah because it was a hard year and the people were weak, as we will mention, Allah willing.

Don't you just hate it when actual Muslim scholars and historians ruin your made up little stories?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#182768 Jul 13, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
The reason is that foreign fighters and various groups of gangsters aided by Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other Arab states, are fighting the government of Syria.
Even the Western governments acknowledge that fact and are hesitant to arm them.
You have already seen the conduct of the rebels. If these groups succeed, you will be blaming Muslims again.
Sure because that's what they are and they want Sharia, not secularism.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#182769 Jul 13, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Why, Rabbee?
rabbee: because it is just another battle, of shiites vs sunni. like what has been going on in egypt, and recently somewhat in turkey.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#182770 Jul 13, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: because it is just another battle, of shiites vs sunni. like what has been going on in egypt, and recently somewhat in turkey.
actually, in the case of Turkey, it is because their freedoms are being slowly eroded. That is expected from any religiously oriented government. Same thing with Egypt. They accepted Morsi at first, but as soon as they saw the Muslim brotherhood's signature behind him, they realized they made a mistake. And he didn't even wait to slowly make Islamic changes like Erdogan did, he tried it right away. And too many people fought for independence from one dictator, only to have an Islamic one replace Mubarak. And even in the previously proudly secular Turkey, they are realizing the mistake that they made. But what did any of these people expect? This is Islam. It is every bit as political, or even more so, as it is religious. This is what is always to be expected of Islam, and it is even woven into their very scriptures themselves. There is no such thing as "give back to Caesar what is his and give to God what is his" in Islam. It's an entirely different philosophical animal, and this is what people need to understand.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#182771 Jul 13, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
actually, in the case of Turkey, it is because their freedoms are being slowly eroded. That is expected from any religiously oriented government. Same thing with Egypt. They accepted Morsi at first, but as soon as they saw the Muslim brotherhood's signature behind him, they realized they made a mistake. And he didn't even wait to slowly make Islamic changes like Erdogan did, he tried it right away. And too many people fought for independence from one dictator, only to have an Islamic one replace Mubarak. And even in the previously proudly secular Turkey, they are realizing the mistake that they made. But what did any of these people expect? This is Islam. It is every bit as political, or even more so, as it is religious. This is what is always to be expected of Islam, and it is even woven into their very scriptures themselves. There is no such thing as "give back to Caesar what is his and give to God what is his" in Islam. It's an entirely different philosophical animal, and this is what people need to understand.
rabbee: well except for the shiites, who have been inciting the riots and bombings lately. since turkey i believe, is predominatly sunni muslim. and egypt is predominatly sunni. and there have been long standing feud between the various sunni, and shiites factions. as they both consider, each others sects as heretics. and the sunni's are now, beguining to recoil. so you can expect, the repercussions to oscillate for quite a while. with both trying to gain control over each other, which they have never really been successful at so the war goes on. but basicly it's the old, were the only true church syndrome with neither side being true.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#182772 Jul 13, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Shamma,
You are a bane of this forum. You have nothing else to offer except off-topic silly posts.
So, let us talk about Jesus and his crude behavior, including the rude and crude behavior of his disciples with the Canaanite woman.
Why couldn't Jesus come up with a better reason? Why did he consider non-Israelites as dogs?
Why did he behave like a racist? When the pagan Centurion asked for his help in saving his partner, why did he not treat him the same way? The Roman Centurion was not an Israelite. And he obliged him straight away. Right?
Let me have your spin on this, please.
This is an Islam thread.
Muslims are cursed with he curse of Muhammad upon them.
Islam is the culture of death and destruction of human life.
You are a moron to even suggest the teaching of Jesus is the cause of Muslims killing Muslims.
Muslims are killing Muslims because Muslims are demon possessed.
Muslims seek worldly power.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#182773 Jul 13, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: because it is just another battle, of shiites vs sunni. like what has been going on in egypt, and recently somewhat in turkey.
No.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#182774 Jul 13, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>This is an Islam thread.
Muslims are cursed with he curse of Muhammad upon them.
Islam is the culture of death and destruction of human life.

You are a moron to even suggest the teaching of Jesus is the cause of Muslims killing Muslims.

Muslims are killing Muslims because Muslims are demon possessed.
Muslims seek worldly power.
No, I have never suggested that the teaching of Jesus is the cause of Muslims killing Muslims.

His teachings and the books written for and by the Church for the Christians, were the cause of Christians killing the Jews.

I am glad that Christianity has already been tamed recently in the later part of the 20th Century.

However, taming of Christians like your 'goodself' would take another century.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#182775 Jul 13, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
The Jews weren't the army that ruled over Jerusalem. Why didn't you ask how many people were killed?

That changes the question drastically, deceiver. Do you mean that Muslims just walked right into Jerusalem?

OK, so nobody was killed right? They just walked in and everybody said, take us over.

In fact, that's how it happened all over the Arabian Peninsula, right?
Yep! That is correct.

You have already learned about what happened in the Arabian Peninsula. The Victory of Mecca and the Prophet's Grand Triumphal Entry into Mecca, closes that chapter.

Now, to your question and the answer is "Yes, they walked in!"

Extracts from Wikipedia, the pedia accepted by polemicists':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusal... (637)

*****The Muslims had so far not attempted any siege of the city.*****

However, since 634, Saracen forces had the potential to threaten all routes to the city. Although it was not encircled, it had been in a state of siege since the Muslims captured the neighboring forts of Pella and Bosra.

After the Battle of Yarmouk, the city was severed from the rest of Syria, and was presumably being prepared for a siege that seemed inevitable.[7] When the Muslim army reached Jericho, Sophronius collected all the holy relics including the True Cross, and secretly sent them to the coast, to be taken to Constantinople.[8]

*****The Muslim troops besieged the city some time in November 636. Instead of relentless assaults on the city,a[›] they decided to press on with the siege until the Byzantines ran short of supplies and a bloodless surrender could be negotiated.[9]*****

*****Although details of the siege were not recorded,b[›] it appeared to be bloodless.[10]*****

The Byzantine garrison could not expect any help from the humbled regime of Heraclius.

*****After a siege of four months, Sophronius offered to surrender the city and pay a jizya (tribute), on condition that the caliph came to Jerusalem to sign the pact and accept the surrender.[11]*****

"Consequently, the Patriarch of Jerusalem refused to negotiate. When Khalid reported the failure of this mission, Abu Ubaidah wrote to caliph Umar about the situation, and invited him to come to Jerusalem to accept the surrender of the city.[13]

Surrender[edit]

Upon Umar's arrival in Jerusalem, a pact known as The Umariyya Covenant was composed. It surrendered the city and gave guarantees of civil and religious liberty to Christians in exchange for jizya. It was signed by caliph Umar on behalf of the Muslims, and witnessed by Khalid, Amr, Abdur Rahman bin Awf, and Muawiyah. In late April 637, Jerusalem was officially surrendered to the caliph.

*****[16] For the first time, after almost 500 years of oppressive Roman rule, Jews were once again allowed to live and worship inside Jerusalem.[2]*****

It has been recorded in the annals of Muslim chronicles, that at the time of the Zuhr prayers, Sophronius invited Umar to pray in the rebuilt Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Umar declined, fearing that accepting the invitation might endanger the church's status as a Christian temple, and that Muslims might break the treaty and turn the temple into a mosque.[9] After staying for ten days in Jerusalem, the caliph returned to Medina.[17]"

How many do you see killed?

Emphasis using ***** is mine.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#182776 Jul 14, 2013
Seeker wrote:
(Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture,)

This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were DEFEATED, the people entered Allah's religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims' control.

Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination. The Messenger sent his intent to various Arab areas around Al-Madinah to gather forces, and he collected an army of thirty thousand. Some people from Al-Madinah and some hypocrites, in and around it, lagged behind, for that year was a year of drought and intense heat. The Messenger of Allah marched, heading towards Ash-Sham to fight the Romans until he reached Tabuk, where he set camp for about twenty days next to its water resources. He then prayed to Allah for a decision and went back to Al-Madinah because it was a hard year and the people were weak, as we will mention, Allah willing.

Don't you just hate it when actual Muslim scholars and historians ruin your made up little stories?
Seeker,

The problem is that you read and quote from a few sources, which have been picked by Christian polemicists. The above is a very poor quote or an extract from the Tafsir and does not include the entire story. You need to read more. The army was collected after the news came that the Romans or those Christians were coming to attack. So, the army was prepared to go and attack them, where they had gathered.

The translation in English, given by the Tafsir folks, is also very poor. Here is a better translation by Arberry:

9:29 "Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book -- until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled."

And another from Yusuf Ali, using the words "People of the Book".

9:29 "Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth,(even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

So, who were the "people of the Book" in above? They were not the Jews. The Jews believed in God and the Last Day.

In this particular verse, as per your story, it is quite obvious that they were the European Christians, who came to wipe out Islam. They were not following the religion of God or the religion that Jesus followed.

See, the Tafsirs cannot teach you what I teach and expalin through the verses of Qur'aan.

Anyway, the Muslims went but the 'Romans' or whoever they were, had gone back without a fight.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#182777 Jul 14, 2013
Seeker wrote:
01. I gave you my position about prophecies. You probably didn't even read the Mother Shipton link I gave, but personally, I found those prophecies to be very specific and astounding. Women wearing pants? Iron boats floating? Communicating thoughts across the world in the twinkle of an eye?

02. Look, let me be ultra fair and just play along with the game the way you want me to so that this conversation even goes somewhere. In religion, people who prophecise are called prophets. Okay? Is that the answer that you need? Can we move on now in the next step of your template? So let's just use your first assumption and move on.

03. Yes, the topic is now strictly prophecies in scriptures. Why didn't you just say that upfront? When you ask questions, you just delay getting to the point. Let's limit the conversation to exactly what you need it to be to make whatever grand scheme you have come to the table. Now would you please move on to the next step in your preconceived template? Thank you. Just explain what you need, and I'll discuss it. You are wasting a lot of time.
Ans.

01. It is strange that you did not understood that our topic of discussion is Prophesies mentioned in the scriptures. That was our topic from the start, but I wanted to do in systematic matter step by step.

02. It is not "main job" of prophets to "prophesize", their main job is to guide their followers and present themselves as prime and role model for the guidance they receive thru revelation.

03. I do not want you to play any game, but we want to establish some basic rules about prophesies, which we will use in our discussions.

04. Now coming directly to the point, I want to ask you, are there any prophesies about coming of Jesus in OT books?

Can you quote any one of them?

PS:

I am being slow purposely and seem to be wasting lot of time, but this is with purpose.

I am not cross examining you in any way. Because the subject is very sensitive and there is lot of misunderstanding in people' mind about this subject.

And I think there is no need to answer your earlier post.

Can I make another request to you? Please do not try this "Line by Line response", I do not like it, because it is difficult to answer it "Line by Line".

You can post normal answer to my post as I do.
Deedat

Mumbai, India

#182778 Jul 14, 2013
Allah is the entity envisioned by Muhammad which demands killing of all non Muslims and he is hungry for 1/5 th of the booty from loot which Muslims do in name of Allah….well still wondering how that booty was delivered to the Creator?? Or Is it like the person or entity that creates something and expects some gains in returns….it would be same as if watch maker asks watch to give something in return …
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#182779 Jul 14, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not that you haven't heard. It is your failure to register.
Yes, it was the American and invasion that caused the chaos. In Iraq, before the invasion under lies and deceit by the US, only Saddam had done the killings.
There were no sectarian clashes during Saddam's regime. You can check that out.
Sure because Saddam gassed them. Maybe the US should have done that?
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Under occupation, those who were working with the US, were considered friends of their enemy. Same happened in Pakistan, where Pakistanis suffered most. So, for Taleban, all who were on the US side, were considered friends of enemy by Taleban.
Yes, please get sacks of popcorn and watch. After the US leaves Afghanistan, we will see more blood shed. And that is my point. Killing will continue but gradually it will slow down, once people realize that their main enemy is out.
It will take time, Seeker.
Well, it only seems to be increasing in Iraq, and the US has been gone now for a couple of years. Same thing will happen in Afghanistan.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#182780 Jul 14, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep! That is correct.
You have already learned about what happened in the Arabian Peninsula. The Victory of Mecca and the Prophet's Grand Triumphal Entry into Mecca, closes that chapter.
Now, to your question and the answer is "Yes, they walked in!"
Extracts from Wikipedia, the pedia accepted by polemicists':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusal... (637)
*****The Muslims had so far not attempted any siege of the city.*****
However, since 634, Saracen forces had the potential to threaten all routes to the city. Although it was not encircled, it had been in a state of siege since the Muslims captured the neighboring forts of Pella and Bosra.
After the Battle of Yarmouk, the city was severed from the rest of Syria, and was presumably being prepared for a siege that seemed inevitable.[7] When the Muslim army reached Jericho, Sophronius collected all the holy relics including the True Cross, and secretly sent them to the coast, to be taken to Constantinople.[8]
*****The Muslim troops besieged the city some time in November 636. Instead of relentless assaults on the city,a[›] they decided to press on with the siege until the Byzantines ran short of supplies and a bloodless surrender could be negotiated.[9]*****
*****Although details of the siege were not recorded,b[›] it appeared to be bloodless.[10]*****
The Byzantine garrison could not expect any help from the humbled regime of Heraclius.
*****After a siege of four months, Sophronius offered to surrender the city and pay a jizya (tribute), on condition that the caliph came to Jerusalem to sign the pact and accept the surrender.[11]*****
"Consequently, the Patriarch of Jerusalem refused to negotiate. When Khalid reported the failure of this mission, Abu Ubaidah wrote to caliph Umar about the situation, and invited him to come to Jerusalem to accept the surrender of the city.[13]
Surrender[edit]
Upon Umar's arrival in Jerusalem, a pact known as The Umariyya Covenant was composed. It surrendered the city and gave guarantees of civil and religious liberty to Christians in exchange for jizya. It was signed by caliph Umar on behalf of the Muslims, and witnessed by Khalid, Amr, Abdur Rahman bin Awf, and Muawiyah. In late April 637, Jerusalem was officially surrendered to the caliph.
*****[16] For the first time, after almost 500 years of oppressive Roman rule, Jews were once again allowed to live and worship inside Jerusalem.[2]*****
It has been recorded in the annals of Muslim chronicles, that at the time of the Zuhr prayers, Sophronius invited Umar to pray in the rebuilt Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Umar declined, fearing that accepting the invitation might endanger the church's status as a Christian temple, and that Muslims might break the treaty and turn the temple into a mosque.[9] After staying for ten days in Jerusalem, the caliph returned to Medina.[17]"
How many do you see killed?
Emphasis using ***** is mine.
What do the words "siege" and "captured" mean to you?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#182781 Jul 14, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>

04. Now coming directly to the point,
Thank God, I thought you never would.

I want to ask you, are there any prophesies about coming of Jesus in OT books?
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you quote any one of them?
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefactsan...
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#182782 Jul 14, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank God, I thought you never would.
I want to ask you, are there any prophesies about coming of Jesus in OT books?
<quoted text>
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefactsan...
Please do not direct me to any web site. This is our discussion. I want to hear one prophesy about Jesus from the OT Books.

Please do not give more than one prophesy at this time. Choose the one which you consider in most clear.

This is needed to start our discussion by passing all "small steps"!!
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#182783 Jul 14, 2013
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Immanuel means "God with us" or God is with us".

Psalm 22
7 All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads.8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,“let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him, since he delights in him.”

16 Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet.

Isaiah 53
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#182784 Jul 14, 2013
MUQ, just pick Isaiah 9:6. Okay? This is highly, highly annoying. I have no idea why this conversation has to be completely controlled by you and done just the way YOU want it. Again, if this was a debate, you would be immediately thrown out. I really can't believe that I am actually bending over backwards for you to be this fair, when your method is completely unfair. But I'm not going to do it for much longer as my patience is wearing quite thin.
Mahmood

Schomberg, Canada

#182785 Jul 14, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Seeker,
The problem is that you read and quote from a few sources, which have been picked by Christian polemicists. The above is a very poor quote or an extract from the Tafsir and does not include the entire story. You need to read more. The army was collected after the news came that the Romans or those Christians were coming to attack. So, the army was prepared to go and attack them, where they had gathered.
The translation in English, given by the Tafsir folks, is also very poor. Here is a better translation by Arberry:
9:29 "Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book -- until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled."
And another from Yusuf Ali, using the words "People of the Book".
9:29 "Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth,(even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
So, who were the "people of the Book" in above? They were not the Jews. The Jews believed in God and the Last Day.
In this particular verse, as per your story, it is quite obvious that they were the European Christians, who came to wipe out Islam. They were not following the religion of God or the religion that Jesus followed.
See, the Tafsirs cannot teach you what I teach and expalin through the verses of Qur'aan.
Anyway, the Muslims went but the 'Romans' or whoever they were, had gone back without a fight.
What motivates you to write such nonsense? Good, from now on, whenever I quote the Koran, it will be Arberry's translation. Jews and Xtians both believe in one almighty creator and the last day, so dont jump to your conclusions concerning the context of the Koran. And how do you know the Romans were going to attack Muslims? Ben Issac must have told you.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#182786 Jul 14, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
What do the words "siege" and "captured" mean to you?
We were not discussing the meanings.

I have already shown that neither the Jews nor the Christians were killed when Muslims took over Jerusalem.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

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