Who Is Allah?

Aug 24, 2007 Full story: The Brussels Journal 207,658

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Full Story
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#179934 Jun 15, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
That was a really retarded statement. I tell you what, why don't you tell me what the following statements mean.
"Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?"
"But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,"
John 1:36
"As Jesus walked by, John looked at him and declared, "Look! There is the Lamb of God!"
"As Tranny jinny martini the MPD seeker walked by, Shamma looked at him and declared, "Look! There is the know all of all time!"
So what?

Without John you are lost, eh?

Let's keep it simple, you fool.

Let us start with MARK because you will agree that Mark was the first and there really is no need for other books if Mark was inspired by "god"! One book would have been sufficient for you to make up your own religion.

Now try answering these SIMPLE questions before you go anywhere near the JEWISH books:

We are NOT interested in "long" deluded MPD posts.
We are NOT interested in MPD deluded beliefs.
We are NOT interested in MPD deluded opinions.

We need simple YES/NO FACTUAL answers.
If you don't know the answers, simply butt out, ok.

Try this for size...
WE NEED DIRECT FACTUAL ANSWERS,instead of giving us 10 page responses.

Just a YES or NO will do, as that is the only acceptable answer.

Also prove your claim by giving us the appropriate Chapter and Verse from the Gospels,(NOT OT or other books):

Did JESUS HIMSELF say any of the following in the Gospels? If so please give chapter and verse from Gospels:

1. "I am God in flesh"…………………………Yes/No

2. "I am God!"…………………………Yes/No
3. "I am THE only begotten son of God"..........Yes/No
4. "I am God in person"..........Yes/No
5. "I am God Incarnate"..........Yes/N o
6. "I am THE Father and Father and I are one and the same person"..........Yes/No
7. "I am made of sin"..........Yes/No
8. "God is a trinity and I am part of that trinity or triune"..........Yes/No
9. "I am your God who came to earth in human form as my own son to die on a Roman cross for the sins of Gentiles or the world or the entire humanity/"..........Yes/N o
10. "Through belief in my unconditional/loving/willing sacrifice as your God in human form as my own son, you can have eternal life"..........Yes/No
11. "Therefore, Worship me and the cross"...Yes/No
12. "Father, ghost and I are co equal, co eternal and consubstantial gods forming a godhead".....Yes/No
13.“I, Jesus, existed before God as Word and I, Jesus, became God”.........Yes/No
14.“Hey Philip! I am THE Father..........Yes/No

Bonus points:
15. "Worship and kiss the cross and get your pope to kiss it, carry it with him and raise it like Moses' serpent".......Yes/No

16.“My mission is not to bring a book, but to die for sins of GENTILES and JEWS”.........Yes/No.
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#179935 Jun 15, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
The answer would be that he never once referenced a book that he brought, and if we look at many last supper statements, he clearly says he is going to die for sins.
<quoted text>
Not in the exact words that YOU demand, but then again, Jesus never said very much in any direct way that you would understand and that many understood.
As far as John 8:58, why don't you just tell me what YOU think the verse means since you seem to think you know what it DOESN'T mean. As far as NOW requesting that it come from Mark, why didn't you make that request at first? All you requested was for someone to show where he said this from the scriptures. Now, that you get what you don't want, you change the request and limit it to Mark. So this means that you find John non trustworthy and fraudulent, but you do not find Mark to be non trustworthy and fraudulent. Otherwise, you wouldn't ask for quotes from Mark.
So do you find Mark to be trustworthy? And if so, which parts and why and how do you make that decision in each case in Mark? And if you don't find Mark to be trustworthy, why are you asking for anything to be quoted from it if you will only say it is fraudulent if you don't get what you like? All you are doing is to shape and limit the rules of the question to be most advantageous for your particular view. I would say that's pretty close to cheating.
Finally you made an attempt to deal with my Q.16 and 17.

I asked...

Did Jesus say?
16.“My mission is not to bring a book, but to die for sins of GENTILES and JEWS”.........Yes/No.

You said..."The answer would be that he never once referenced a book that he brought, and if we look at many last supper statements, he clearly says he is going to die for sins."
..........
You claim that he brought no book but still you clinging on to dear life with john written by many unknown johns.

I asked you to "PRODUCE EVIDENCE FROM MARK, AS WE ARE STARTING WITH SYNOPTICS, AND WHY NOT"?

Waiting for last supper comments from Mark.
..........

Then I asked...
17. "I, Jesus existed before Abraham".......Yes/No

Provide Chapter and Verse from Gospel of Mark...and later from other Gospels...

You seem to finally say "No"!

Is that correct?
No need to give your interpretation from John when I we are dealing with Mark.
Ok?

So..........Jesus never really claim the above two!
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#179936 Jun 15, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you were trying to claim that what I quoted from Exodus 3:14 is not correct and yet you can do nothing at all to substantiate your claim. So now, just like always, every time you make a mistake or run out of answers, the subject gets changed and everybody is just supposed to forget about your blunder of making a completely unsubstantiated claim. You are a very, very dishonest person.
If you do a bit of reasearch you will find the holes you have been digging.
Keep searching.

(I have NOT made a mistake...YOU have....not one, but many)
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#179937 Jun 15, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
He's going to pretend you never even posted this. You see, it's no fair for you to act like he does. Only he is allowed to act that way.
"pagan" arabs probably worshipped each others bottoms!
Who cares.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#179938 Jun 15, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
These questions have nothing to do with the abstract nature of Jesus. All throughout the Gospels, he never came out and "just said it" about anything. Is the Kingdom of Heaven really a mustard seed? Really? So what was he talking about?
Jesus spoke in parables because he did not want to be understood. He also did not claim to be (equal to) God until they dragged it out of him. He was ashamed of his hope and wasn't sure of his identity. When the true Messiah comes she will reveal the secret and hidden things. "The knowledge of the holy is understanding". Jesus died the "death of the uncircumcised" and suffered a "strange punishment". He came in the middle of history and was a "new god". The God of Israel is the first and the last and would come at the end of human history.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#179939 Jun 15, 2013
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
(A) What do you mean by your "god's" language between your "god" and Jesus? Where is it recorded and who heard this? Was that not Aramaic? Did your "god" speak koine greek?
You also admit that "god" and "jesus" are two separate persons?
(B) Can you name the apostles who knew Jesus was "god" himself?
(C) You say "Jesus was sent by the Father to perform a task given to Him by the Father".
You again admit that "father" and "jesus" are two separate persons?
Otherwise, it will not make sense for "god" to be sent by "god" to perform a task given by "god", right?
(D) You say that "The task was more important to the Father then Jesus coming out and openly proclaiming to be God to the Jews.
At times the Jews wanted to stone Jesus because they knew that Jesus was telling them that He was God."
You also say that "But Jesus had to make sure He finished His task given to Him by the Father".
WHAT WAS THAT TASK? And when did Jesus mention that in the Gospels. Please provide chapter and verse.
(E) Finally you still have not given me a single DIRECT quote from Jesus addressed to ordinary/normal human beings, from the Gospels -
No verse to confirm he even came for Gentiles.
I have to repeat my questions to keep you on track...
Will be nice to expect a simple DIRECT ANSWERS from you.
Explaining the Verse is one thing but "finding" the Verse is something completely different!
CAN YOU FIND THESE SHAMMA?
I don't need 10 pages response.
Just a YES or NO will do. That is the only acceptable answer.
Did JESUS HIMSELF say THESE in the Gospels?
12. "Father, ghost and I are co equal, co eternal and consubstantial gods forming a godhead".....Yes/No
13.“I, Jesus, existed before God as Word and I, Jesus, became God”.........Yes/No
14.“Hey Philip! I am THE Father..........Yes/No
Please prove your claim by giving us the appropriate Chapter and Verse from the Gospels.(NOT OT or other books)
Thank you, Shamma.
God knows Jesus is his Son, And you are to ignorant to understand when Jesus calls God His Father, it really is His Father.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#179940 Jun 15, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Off-topic like a presbyter.
I answered your questions and asked:
"Now, Jesus was a Jew. Right? The disciples prayed in the Temple. Right?
Jesus wanted you to remain a Jew. He never changed his religion. Right?
So, why don't you Christians pray in the synagogues, dress up like the Jews and pray the way Jesus did? "
Why did you not answer the questions? Is it because you have no answer? 
Its the truth.
Muslims are godless people.
Muslims don't care about God.
The only thing Muslims care about is pleasing there dead prophet Muhammad.
Muslims love living in sin.
So let Muslim die in their sins.
Muslims want it way anyway.
Non-Muslims just have stay aware that Muslims are potential murderer's.
And always remember that Muslims have the mind set of wild savage dogs.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#179941 Jun 15, 2013
Shamma wrote:
God knows Jesus is his Son, And you are to ignorant to understand when Jesus calls God His Father, it really is His Father.
Shamma,

Your God also knows that Mary Magdalene was his Daughter. Jesus called his Father as Her Father too.

Jesus called his Father as the Father of his brothers (the disciples). So, the disciples were also the Sons of God because they like Jesus also called God Their Father.

So, all Christian men and women are the Sons and Daughters of Their Father.

The good news is that Jesus never called God his father.

Now, this is what you should do. Stop calling God his father. Instead, call the Holy Ghost his father. So, Jesus was not the Son of God but he was the Son of the Holy Ghost, who had fathered him. Right?

Is your God your father or Father? The shrewd and wicked men, including the demons, who gave Jesus the silly title Son of God, could not differentiate between a father and the Father and showed Jesus crying everywhere 'My Father this and my Father that...', which should have simply been 'The Father'.

Good night

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#179942 Jun 15, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>Its the truth.
Muslims are godless people.
Muslims don't care about God.
The only thing Muslims care about is pleasing there dead prophet Muhammad.
Muslims love living in sin.
So let Muslim die in their sins.
Muslims want it way anyway.
Non-Muslims just have stay aware that Muslims are potential murderer's.
And always remember that Muslims have the mind set of wild savage dogs.
Off-topic again. See, you were not able to answer!

Try again. I wrote this and added 'typical' to presbyter.:

Off-topic like a typical presbyter.

I answered your questions and asked:

"Now, Jesus was a Jew. Right? The disciples prayed in the Temple. Right?

Jesus wanted you to remain a Jew. He never changed his religion. Right?

So, why don't you Christians pray in the synagogues, dress up like the Jews and pray the way Jesus did? "

Why did you not answer the questions? Is it because you have no answer?"

Now, mow down the churches and join synagogues. And please start worshipping the LORD as Jesus, the Jew did. OK?

Jesus came to take the wrong ways or sinful ways of the world and you guys chose the sinful ways by reducing God to a lowly man! That is the Greatest Sin.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#179943 Jun 15, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Shamma,
Your God also knows that Mary Magdalene was his Daughter. Jesus called his Father as Her Father too.
Jesus called his Father as the Father of his brothers (the disciples). So, the disciples were also the Sons of God because they like Jesus also called God Their Father.
So, all Christian men and women are the Sons and Daughters of Their Father.
The good news is that Jesus never called God his father.
Now, this is what you should do. Stop calling God his father. Instead, call the Holy Ghost his father. So, Jesus was not the Son of God but he was the Son of the Holy Ghost, who had fathered him. Right?
Is your God your father or Father? The shrewd and wicked men, including the demons, who gave Jesus the silly title Son of God, could not differentiate between a father and the Father and showed Jesus crying everywhere 'My Father this and my Father that...', which should have simply been 'The Father'.
Good night
Muslims will never be civilized.
Muslims will always have the mind set of wild savage dogs.
God does things in His own way Muslim.
Muslims can curse Jesus the Son of God all they want, but it is not going to change the mind of God.
You either accept Jesus Christ the Son of God as your Savior, or you don't.
That is the fact of life.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#179944 Jun 15, 2013
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey idiot!
The Gospels were not proof read by Jesus.
If the man said mustard seed, he must have meant mustard seed and not another seed.
Just to quote again what statement that I brought up that caused your response above. "Heaven is like a mustard seed"

Well if you think what you just said above, then I have gained a true look into how you think about or the approach that you use to understand any of these things. So you have told me that any conversation between us will always be pointless. Don't ask me any more questions anymore, and I will not respond to anything that you say on this forum anymore, whether it is directed to me, or someone else. Deal?

Your last statement said it all. Now I KNOW how you approach things. You are actually more stupid than I ever previously imagined, and that says a lot, because I knew you were stupid, but I just had no idea just how stupid you really were.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#179945 Jun 15, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus spoke in parables because he did not want to be understood.
Why not?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#179946 Jun 15, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus spoke in parables because he did not want to be understood. He also did not claim to be (equal to) God until they dragged it out of him.
So he DID claim that?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#179947 Jun 15, 2013
uhuh wrote:
<quoted text>
within this same sentence,
"I baptize you in water, but he shall baptize you in holy spirit and fire"
how come WATER can be taken to mean literally, but FIRE should not be taken literally?
Because baptism in the case of Jesus meant fire in one's heart. Do you think that it literally meant heartburn or acid indigestion, or lighting people's hair on fire? Do you take everything so literally? Weren't you they guy that I already explained this to when I mentioned laughing about the idea of people lighting other people's hair on fire and me laughing about that? Did you see my response to what you said?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#179948 Jun 15, 2013
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Finally you made an attempt to deal with my Q.16 and 17.
I asked...
Did Jesus say?
16.“My mission is not to bring a book, but to die for sins of GENTILES and JEWS”.........Yes/No.
You said..."The answer would be that he never once referenced a book that he brought, and if we look at many last supper statements, he clearly says he is going to die for sins."
..........
You claim that he brought no book but still you clinging on to dear life with john written by many unknown johns.
All of the Gospels are named Gospel According to (person's name), which clearly means that it was people retelling the story of what happened. There was never any attempt to create a "Gospel of Jesus" because the Gospels are are people telling about what he said and did. That's why they are all named the way they are. If it was different, then you would have varying versions of a book called "The Gospel According to Jesus", but nobody ever attempted to do that. The only reason that Muhammad mentioned "the Injil" was because he wanted to make Jesus' mission look as much like his was, therefore Jesus surely brought an actual book. But Jesus never did and never said that he did, and there was never any such thing as the Injil and Muhammad was mistaken or just trying to make Jesus' mission look as much like his as he could. Jeremiah 31 speaks of the prediction of Jesus and it speaks of a New Covenant different than the one that lead them out of Egypt, and it says that the law shall now now be written on the hearts and minds of men, as opposed to in the past where it was written in a book and it speaks of their past sins being forgiven.
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
I asked you to "PRODUCE EVIDENCE FROM MARK, AS WE ARE STARTING WITH SYNOPTICS, AND WHY NOT"?
Waiting for last supper comments from Mark.
"24 “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many,”

What does poured out for many mean to you?
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Then I asked...
17. "I, Jesus existed before Abraham".......Yes/No
Provide Chapter and Verse from Gospel of Mark...and later from other Gospels...
I already mentioned the others. But Mark does not specifically mention that. Different authors wrote what they remembered. That's why there are multiple Gospels. There never was one singular "Gospel According to Jesus" because Jesus never mentioned bringing any book with him at all. As per Jeremiah, that was not his goal because he came to die and write the law on the hearts and minds of men, not in a book. Jesus did and said things, and people wrote about it and recalled it as we would expect. If Jesus DID bring a book, we would expect people to invent different accounts or books all called the "Gospel According to Jesus", but nobody ever attempted to call any of these books that because Jesus never brought one, and instead people merely told about what he said and did. The concept of "the Injil" was nothing but an invention on Muhammad's part because he didn't actually understand what the Gospels really were.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#179949 Jun 15, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not?
I think he didn't want to be understood because he wasn't sure about who he thought he was and he didn't know about the teachings of scripture. If all of the signs of his spiritual rebirth had actually happened, he would know who he was and would not be afraid to say so. The truth is, he never fulfilled any scripture about anything and relied on the beliefs of his followers to support is imagined identity.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#179950 Jun 15, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
So he DID claim that?
I'm sure you know the NT better than I do Seeker, you're the Christian. Both his followers and the Jews who tried him got him to admit that he claimed to be the son of God. He also said, "I and my father are one". Jesus claimed to be equal to God and in essence claimed to be God.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#179951 Jun 15, 2013
@ Seeker Jeremiah 31:30 says that "everyone shall die for his own iniquity" and Christianity is called a "sour grape". There is no human atonement. The chapter just means that we will live the law in our hearts rather than just observing it by lip service.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#179952 Jun 15, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>I think he didn't want to be understood because he wasn't sure about who he thought he was and he didn't know about the teachings of scripture.
What makes you think he didn't know them all too well?
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>
If all of the signs of his spiritual rebirth had actually happened, he would know who he was and would not be afraid to say so. The truth is, he never fulfilled any scripture about anything and relied on the beliefs of his followers to support is imagined identity.
I see a lot of parallels to what he did and what was mentioned in Jeremiah 31, starting with verse 31
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#179953 Jun 15, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>I'm sure you know the NT better than I do Seeker, you're the Christian. Both his followers and the Jews who tried him got him to admit that he claimed to be the son of God. He also said, "I and my father are one". Jesus claimed to be equal to God and in essence claimed to be God.
That's correct, now tell that to Muslims here who deny that he ever tried to make that claim. The Jewish Authorities understood all too well what he was trying to say, and that's why they wanted to crucify him. Muslims continue to say that he never made any such claims. But if he merely claimed that he was merely a Prophet, the Jewish Authorities wouldn't have wanted to get rid of him like they did. After all, if he merely claimed to just be a Prophet, the Jewish authorities probably wouldn't have had much hatred for him at all.

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