Who Is Allah?

Aug 24, 2007 Full story: The Brussels Journal 215,380

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

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Since: Apr 11

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#170576 Apr 4, 2013
Is Jesus God because He said Honor him as you Honor the Father?

Answering Christianity has employed Muhammadan propagandists Sami Zaatari to write articles specifically attacking Christian core beliefs such as the Deity of Jesus Christ. In his latest article Mr. Zaatari goes out of his way to misinterpret John 5:23 while ignoring the obviously clear meaning. Here we will expose his shallow eisegesis and reveal the false logic behind his reasoning. Zaatari begins by saying:

By Sami Zaatari

Christians often claim that since Jesus said honor him as the Father, then this means Jesus is God since he asking for the same honor as the Father. The verse reads:
John 5:23:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father

Christians use this and then shout Jesus is God! However so let us read on the verse, since Christian do not like to quote the rest of the passage:

That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him

So now since we have the entire verse quoted for us it makes things easier. So let us now respond, my response will be separated into two points:

Yes Christians do use this verse as proof that Jesus is God Almighty. I’m surprised it took Osama’s team of writers to finally present a rebuttal of this verse. We’ve been using this for the last 8 years and no answer was given or even attempted by “Answering-Christianity”. It is very obvious these propagandists have a problem in addressing this verse. As you will see, Zaatari fails miserably also and his explanation is merely his own personal opinion not substantiated by any Biblical facts. Zaatari begins his response by saying:

1- Notice Jesus says that if you do not honour him then you do not honour the Father. Now what does that mean?
You see folks, any person who does not believe in a prophet of God disbelieves in God also, why? Because God is commanding you to believe in those prophets, and God is sending them revelations, to deny the prophet is to deny God.

Basically Zaatari takes “honouring Jesus as you would honour his father” as assuming that Jesus is a prophet and therefore believing in him would allow you to believe in God. The immediate problem that arises, if we assume that his comments to be true, is that if you:

honour the Son, even as they honour the Father
Honouring Jesus as a prophet would mean that you must honour the Father as a prophet.
Honouring Jesus as just a mere creature would also mean to honour the Father as a creature as well.

This fact is inescapable because the NT verse makes no distinction between Jesus and the Father here, since it says to honour Jesus as you would honour the Father. This means that both must be honored in the same way and to the same degree. Zaatari loves to claim that Christians don’t quote everything in the immediate context and yet he apparently forgot to quote the previous verses before it:

Jesus said to them,'Very truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, THE SON DOES LIKEWISE. The Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing; and he will show him greater works than these, so that you will be astonished. Indeed, just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, SO ALSO THE SON GIVES LIFE TO WHOMEVER HE WISHES. The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, SO THAT ALL MAY HONOR THE SON JUST AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.’ John 5:19-23

The immediate context shows the reason why Jesus must be honoured JUST AS THE FATHER because he has the ability to do “whatever the Father does” which includes giving life to whomever he wishes. The passage also says that GOD THE FATHER will judge no one but has entrusted this to Jesus alone.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#170577 Apr 4, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>
Salam Alex
I don't mind so much one having their own religious beliefs as the Quran states:
The Qur'an refers to Christians and Jews as "People of the Book" and calls on Muslims to respect them. In more than one Qur'anic passage, Christian and Jewish believers are specifically mentioned as having God's favor:
Be they Muslims, Jews, Christians, or Sabaeans,
Those who believe in God and the Last Day
And who do well
Have their reward with their Lord.
They have nothing to fear,
And they will not sorrow.(Qur'an: 2:62 and 5:69)
On occasion, the Qur'an also criticizes Christians and Jews, mainly with regard to their views concerning prophets. Christians are criticized for calling Jesus divine. In the Muslim view, though born of the Virgin Mary and revered as a major prophet, Jesus was a man of flesh and blood. The Jews, on the other hand, are criticized for rejecting certain prophets, as well as others whose warnings the Children of Israel ignored. They are also taken to task for their rejection of Jesus and, of course, Muhammad. Muhammad's own comments follow the Qur'an in making clear that Islam was not to be considered a new religion, but rather as a continuation of the original religion of Abraham. As expressed in the Qur'an:
They say (to the Muslims): "Become Jews or become Christians and find the right way." Answer them: "No. We follow the way of Abraham the upright, who was not an idolater." Say: "We believe in God and what has been sent down to us, and what was given to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and Jacob's sons, and that which was given to Moses and Christ, and to (all) the (other) prophets by their Lord. We make no distinction among them, and we submit to God." (2:135-136)
Despite theological disagreements and political disputes, Muhammad remained respectful of both faiths. A few years before he died, when his leadership of the Arabs was generally accepted, a delegation of sixty Christians with scholars and judges among them arrived in Medina from the southern capitol of Najran. In a kind of interfaith council rare in those days, Muslims and Christians, joined by Medina's Jewish rabbis, sat together discussing and arguing the meaning of their beliefs. This occurred at a time when, not far to the north, Christians and Persians had been engaged for decades in massively destructive religious wars. According to Muslim chroniclers, when the council in Medina ended, the Najran Christians mounted their camels and rode peacefully back home.
Muhammad once came upon a group of Muslims arguing about which religion had primacy over all others. This was the occasion for one of the Qur'an's most often quoted revelations: "If God had so willed, He would have made all of you one community, but he has not done so, in order that he may test you according to what he has given you; so compete in goodness. To God shall you all return, and He will tell you the truth about what you have been disputing."
Quran 4:58
So I don't mind people having their own belief it is from the will of Allah, Allah says this and reminds us of our own free will to submit to Allah
However what I do mind is somebody such as Shamma taking a theological debate to a personal and prejudice level, making claim that because I am a Muslim I am deemed a murderer a terrorist
I have asked Shamma to provide me actual evidence from the Quran which encourages acts of crime... I am still waiting
I just get abuse in a personal sense therefore communication is exterminated... I have never criticised them for their belief or besieged any personal attack, as in Islam this is considered unlawful
I have provided evidence from the Quran and real life evidence of which is ignored by Muslims.
I have provided evidence that the Quran scripture is borrowed from other religions, and Muslims don't give a damn.
Their religious laws are made so that no one can challenge the integrity of their religion.

Sheffield, UK

#170579 Apr 4, 2013

Sheffield, UK

#170580 Apr 4, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus is the Name of the "Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit".

In the work of redemption all three persons of the God take an active working part in the salvation of man.

Many that were baptized in the name of Jesus did not receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16
New International Version (©2011)
because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

When the Apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost the were commanded to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son , and of the Holt Spirit.
For they them self now received the Holy Spirit and were able to baptize with the full power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them to baptize in the full name of the one God head of God.
"The Trinity".

You speak in ignorance because you cannot connect the dots in scripture.

All of scripture has to be absorbed in order to get a clear understanding of scripture.
Where does it say Shamma Jesus is the name of the father the son and the Holy Spirit? I don't want you to reply with hatefulness I just want a clean answer

Sheffield, UK

#170581 Apr 4, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>I have provided evidence from the Quran and real life evidence of which is ignored by Muslims.
I have provided evidence that the Quran scripture is borrowed from other religions, and Muslims don't give a damn.
Their religious laws are made so that no one can challenge the integrity of their religion.
Ok send me quotations from the Quran not the examples of criminals or people but from the Quran

I could brand you a terrorist and a supporter of witch hunting and killing young children, raping young children based on Christians commit crimes every day, who use the name of Jesus to justify their actions

Pedophile priests and Christian ministers, witch hunts through out history killing innocent women on the basis of suspicion, today still happens in Africa daily, innocent children are outcast and harmed and murdered because a Christian minister decides a child is infiltrated by the devil, Timothy mcveigh, anders brievik , the IRA, National Liberation Front of Tripura,

In early 2000, 16 Bengali Hindus were killed by the NLFT at Gourangatilla. On May 20, 2000, the NLFT killed 25 Bengali Hindus at the Bagber refugee camp.[25] In August 2000, a tribal Hindu spiritual leader, Shanti Kali, was shot dead by about ten NLFT guerrillas who said it wanted to convert all people in the state to Christianity

Orthodox Christian movements in Romania, such as the Iron Guard and Lăncieri, which have been characterized by Yad Vashem and Stanley G. Payne as anti-semitic and fascist, respectively, were responsible for involvement in the Bucharest pogrom, and political murders during the 1930s.

The KKK, the Lambs of Christ,

A group called Concerned Christians were deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999, believing that their deaths would "lead them to heaven"

So you see Shamma there are nutjobs everywhere.... These are just A FEW examples, You cannot say a persons crime represents a religion unless the religious texts promotes terrorism

Paste me genuine translations where the Quran promotes violence, murder and pedophilia ....

I don't want examples I want text from a legitimate translation as you do not speak Arabic, and not taken out of context the whole text...

When you can provide that, rather than you pulling ridiculous examples out of thin air...

I am waiting and have been waiting a while as you haven't quoted anything yet...

Sheffield, UK

#170582 Apr 4, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>I have provided evidence from the Quran and real life evidence of which is ignored by Muslims.
I have provided evidence that the Quran scripture is borrowed from other religions, and Muslims don't give a damn.
Their religious laws are made so that no one can challenge the integrity of their religion.
Shamma ?? Waiting

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#170583 Apr 4, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>
Shamma ?? Waiting

Muhammad's Own Words

Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said,'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."

Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."

Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

Ishaq:326 "Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth."

Bukhari:V4B52N63 "A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came to the Prophet and said,'Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first?' The Prophet said,'Embrace Islam first and then fight.' So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said,'A Little work, but a great reward.'"

Bukhari:V4B53N386 "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'"
Muslim:C34B20N4668 "The Messenger said:'Anybody who equips a warrior going to fight in the Way of Allah is like one who actually fights. And anybody who looks after his family in his absence is also like one who actually fights."

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#170584 Apr 4, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
why do you call me, Cruff?
I suspect he calls you cruff because of your perverted obsession.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#170585 Apr 4, 2013
Muhammad's Own Words

Qur'an:9:38 "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place."
Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."
Qur'an:8:72 "Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave (them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them - these are allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they do so." [Another translation reads:] "You are only called to protect Muslims who fight."
Muslim:C9B1N31 "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought."
Bukhari:V9B84N59 "Whoever says this will save his property and life from me.'"
Qur'an:8:73 "The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah's religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid - these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise)."
Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."
Qur'an:48:16 "Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind:'You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture."
Qur'an:48:22 "If the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will retreat.(Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past: no change will you find in the ways of Allah."
Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."
Qur'an:47:31 "And We shall try you until We know those among you who are the fighters."
Tabari VI:138 "Those present at the oath of Aqabah had sworn an allegiance to Muhammad. It was a pledge of war against all men. Allah had permitted fighting."
Tabari VI:139 "Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by revealing the verse 'And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.'"
Qur'an:9:19 "Do you make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Mosque, equal to those who fight in the Cause of Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. Those who believe, and left their homes, striving with might, fighting in Allah's Cause with their goods and their lives, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah."

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#170586 Apr 4, 2013
Muhammad's own words.
Ishaq:550 "The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard over our battle roars and snarling."
Qur'an:5:94 "Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment."
Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory."
Tabari IX:22 "The Prophet continued to besiege the town, fighting them bitterly."
Tabari IX:25 "By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta'if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant."
Tabari IX:82 "The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them."
Tabari IX:88 "Abdallah Azdi came to the Messenger, embraced Islam, and became a good Muslim. Allah's Apostle invested Azdi with the authority over those who had surrendered and ordered him to fight the infidels from the tribes of Yemen. Azdi left with an army by the Messenger's command. The Muslims besieged them for a month. Then they withdrew, setting a trap. When the Yemenites went in pursuit, Azdi was able to inflict a heavy loss on them."
Ishaq:530 "Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good thing goes with the Apostle. Lord, I believe in his word. We will fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its revelation with strokes that will remove heads from shoulders and make enemies of friends."
Muslim:C9B1N29 "Command For Fighting Against People So Long As They Do Not Profess That There Is No Ilah (God) But Allah And Muhammad Is His Messenger: When the Messenger breathed his last and Bakr was appointed Caliph, many Arabs chose to become apostates [rejected Islam]. Abu Bakr said:'I will definitely fight against anyone who stops paying the Zakat tax, for it is an obligation. I will fight against them even to secure the cord used for hobbling the feet of a camel which they used to pay if they withhold it now.' Allah had justified fighting against those who refused to pay Zakat."
Muslim:C9B1N33 "The Prophet said:'I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'"
Muslim:C10B1N176 "Muhammad (may peace be upon him) sent us in a raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning. I caught hold of a man and he said:'There is no god but Allah,' but I attacked him with a spear anyway. It once occurred to me that I should ask the Apostle about this. The Messenger said:'Did he profess "There is no god but Allah," and even then you killed him?' I said:'He made a profession out of the fear of the weapon I was threatening him with.' The Prophet said:'Did you tear out his heart in order to find out whether it had professed truly or not?'"
Muslim:C20B1N4597 "The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca:'There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.'"

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#170587 Apr 4, 2013
Muhammad's own words.
Allah's Cause have the hope of Allah's mercy."
Qur'an:2:244 "Fight in Allah's Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all."

Qur'an:2:246 "He said:'Would you refrain from fighting if fighting were prescribed for you?' They said:'How could we refuse to fight in Allah's Cause?'"

Ishaq:280 "The Apostle prepared for war in pursuance of Allah's command to fight his enemies and to fight the infidels who Allah commanded him to fight."

Qur'an:61:2 "O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure."

Bukhari:V4B52N61 "Allah's Apostle! We were absent from the first battle you fought against the pagans. If Allah gives us a chance to do battle, no doubt, He will see how bravely we fight."

Ishaq:398 "Ask them for their help. Thereby make the religion of Islam agreeable to them. And when you are resolved in the matter of religion concerning fighting your enemy you will have the advantage."

Qur'an:3:146 "How many prophets fought in Allah's Cause? With them (fought) myriads of godly men who were slain. They never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah's Cause, nor did they weaken nor give in. Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [warriors]."

Ishaq:393 "How many prophets has death in battle befallen and how many multitudes with him? They did not show weakness toward their enemies and were not humiliated when they suffered in the fight for Allah and their religion. That is steadfastness. Allah loves the steadfast."

Qur'an:3:153 "Behold! You ran off precipitately, climbing up the high hill without even casting a side glance at anyone, while the Messenger in your rear is calling you from your rear, urging you to fight. Allah gave you one distress after another by way of requital, to teach you not to grieve for the booty that had escaped you and for (the ill) that had befallen you."

Qur'an:3:154 "Say:'Even if you had remained in your houses, those ordained to be slaughtered would have gone forth to the places where they were to slain."

Ishaq:440 "Helped by the Holy Spirit we smited Muhammad's foes. The Apostle sent a message to them with a sharp cutting sword."

Ishaq:470 "We attacked them fully armed, swords in hand, cutting through heads and skulls."

Qur'an:61:4 "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause."

Qur'an:61:11 "Believers, shall I lead you to a bargain or trade that will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive and fight in Allah's Cause with your property and your lives: That will be best for you!" Qur'an 61:12 "He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens under which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Eden: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement. And another (favor) which you love: help from Allah for a speedy victory over your enemies."

Qur'an:8:5 "Your Lord ordered you out of your homes to fight for the true cause, even though some Muslims disliked it, and were averse (to fighting)."

Qur'an:24:53 "They swear their strongest oaths saying that if only you would command them. They would leave their homes (and go forth fighting in Allah's Cause). Say:'Swear not; Obedience is (more) reasonable.'"

Qur'an:4:74 "Let those who fight in Allah's Cause sell this world's life for the hereafter. To him who fights in Allah's Cause, whether he is slain or victorious, We shall give him a reward."

Qur'an:4:75 "What reason have you that you should not fight in Allah's Cause?" [Another translation says:] "What is wrong with you that you do not fight for Allah?"

Qur'an:4:76 "Those who believe fight in the Cause of Allah."

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#170588 Apr 4, 2013

Muhammad's own words.

Qur'an:4:77 "Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say:'Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?'"

Qur'an:4:78 "Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers strong and high! So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?"

Qur'an:4:84 "Then fight (Muhammad) in Allah's Cause. Incite the believers to fight with you."

Qur'an:4:94 "Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah's Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you:'You are not a believer!' Coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty."

Qur'an:4:95 "Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah's Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has distinguished with a special reward."

Qur'an:4:100 "He who leaves his home in Allah's Cause finds abundant resources and many a refuge. Should he die as a refugee for Allah and His Messenger His reward becomes due and sure with Allah. When you travel through the earth there is no blame on you if you curtail your worship for fear unbelievers may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are your enemy."

Qur'an:4:102 "When you (Prophet) lead them in prayer, let some stand with you, taking their arms with them. When they finish their prostrations, let them take positions in the rear. And let others who have not yet prayed come - taking all precaution, and bearing arms. The Infidels wish, if you were negligent of your arms, to assault you in a rush. But there is no blame on you if you put away your arms because of the inconvenience of rain or because you are ill; but take precaution. For the Unbelieving Infidels Allah hath prepared a humiliating punishment."

Qur'an:4:104 "And do not relent in pursuing the enemy."


Since: Mar 08


#170589 Apr 4, 2013
Shamma wrote:
Matthew 6:22

Matthew 6:22 is the twenty-second verse of the sixth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament,
There was no need to write that. Even a polemic Christian ignorant fool knows that.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#170590 Apr 4, 2013
ana wrote:
<quoted text>
Where does it say Shamma Jesus is the name of the father the son and the Holy Spirit? I don't want you to reply with hatefulness I just want a clean answer
Jesus inherited his Name Jesus from God His father.
God is Tri-une.
There is only one God.
There are three divine Persons in the Tri-unity. Our previous studies have demonstrated this beyond the threshold of proof.

4. Matthew 28:19: Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit....

Three Persons, one name. Jesus commissioned His disciples to baptize with a view to the unity of the three divine Persons.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit define who God is.


Since: Mar 08


#170591 Apr 4, 2013
NotQuiter wrote:
<quoted text>
It is hard to understand how anyone would interpret that at Isaiah 48 as being the trinity. For one thing, Shamma already admitted that the first one speaking is God. Then he says the prophet Isaiah is impersonating Jesus Christ. I never heard that one before.
Looking at that proof text Shamma has provided, it says:(King James American Version, Isaiah 48:16):
"Come you near to me, hear you this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, has sent me."
The one that the Lord GOD sent was Isaiah, no doubt about it. To repeat, the prophets spoke for God, not as God. They uttered God's prophecies, not their own.
How can the Lord God,'his' Spirit (God's spirit), and Isaiah impersonating Jesus Christ be the trinity, when in fact, God IS supposed to be the trinity?
That's the first time I ever heard that Isaiah was "impersonating" Jesus Christ. In all honesty, maybe Shamma was using a poor choice of words. But I can't understand where he got this interpretation. Every time GOD spoke by means of the prophets, one cannot say it was Jesus Christ speaking. In fact, the scriptures say otherwise. Also, the scriptures say they spoke by means of God's spirit.
If you recall from the beginning I was interested in finding out what Muslims believe, and saw the thread with some supposed Christians trying to bash the Qu'ran where it spoke of the invalidity of the trinity. No matter how I turned the statement in the Qu'ran, I could not find an error regarding the statements about God not being a trinity. I tried.:-)
Hebrews 1:1 says again:

"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways," (Not through the trinity, but the prophets. It does not say that the trinity God spoke through the trinity Jesus via the prophets.)
The best illustration about this is what Jesus said: how can a house built on sand stand? It cannot. When the winds came, and the waters poured, the house collapsed.

I am still a Christian, though, no matter what Shamma says about me.:-) Peace to you, bmz.
You are a true follower of Jesus, NQ. I am glad that you are not a trinitarian Christian. Anyone, who denounces and rejects Trinity, is a true believer in God Almighty.

There is no other God besides the LORD and it is good to see you declaring that openly.



Since: Mar 08


#170592 Apr 4, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>
You are totally wrong.
You blasphemy God with your stupidity.
John 5:23-25
New International Version (NIV)
23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live
If you honor Jesus as just a prophet as you are suggesting then you are degrading God down to be just a mere prophet on the order of being the same mere creature as Jesus.
Your argument that Jesus is not equal to God has been debunked in this link.
Nothing but Bullshit.

You liars and fools have degraded God by comparing God with a man, a failure and a flop and whose mission was terminated, because it was not going anywhere.

Looking at God and Jesus, God is the Most High and Jesus is far below. Jesus was 100% inferior to God.
Alex123 WM


#170593 Apr 4, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>
See you are spiritually blind. and choose a fruit that has no power to forgive your sins.
BJ had NO power to forgive your sins. HE LIED.
You are blind Skeptic.
You hurt people.
You insult people.
You are under the influence of a very dangerous demon who is a "ONE-EYED naked PAGAN satan dangling off a phallus seducing you to CHEW his RAW flesh while you SUCK off his FRESH blood and juices"
Alex123 WM


#170594 Apr 4, 2013
MUQ wrote:
Excerpts from the Gospel of Barnabas, Part-78
Chapter 168 Jesus’ source of knowledge
Then said the disciples: "Truly God speaks in you, for never has man spoken as you speak." Jesus answered: "Believe me when God chose me to send me to the House of Israel, he gave me a book like to a clear mirror; which came down into my heart in such wise that all that I speak comes forth from that book. And when that book shall have finished coming forth from my mouth, I shall be taken up from the world." Peter answered: "O master, is that which you now speak written in that book?" Jesus replied: "All that I say for the knowledge of God and the service of God, for the knowledge of man and for the salvation of mankind all this comes forth from that book, which is my gospel;." Said Peter: "Is there written therein the glory of paradise?"
Chapter 169 On Last prophet
Jesus answered:."Hearken, and I will tell you of what manner is paradise, and how the holy and the faithful shall abide there without end, for this is one of the greatest blessings of paradise seeing that everything, however great, if it have an end, becomes small, yes nought.'Paradise is the home where God stores his delights, which are so great that the ground which is trodden by the feet of the holy and blessed ones is so precious that one drachma of it is more precious than a thousand worlds.
These delights were seen by our, father, David, prophet of God, for God showed them to him, seeing he caused him to behold the glories of paradise: whereupon, when he returned to himself, he closed his eyes with both his hands, and weeping said: "Look not any more upon this world, O my eyes, for all is vain, and there is no good!". Of these delights said Isaiah ;the prophet: "The eyes of man have not seen, his ears have not heard, nor has the human heart conceived, that which God has prepared for them that love him." Know you wherefore they have not seen, heard, conceived such delights? It is because while they live here below they are not worthy to behold
such things. Wherefore, albeit our father David ;truly saw them, I tell you that he saw them not with human eyes, for God took his soul to himself, and thus, united with God, he saw them with light divine. As God lives, in whose presence my soul stands, seeing that the delights of paradise are infinite and man is finite, man cannot contain them; even as a little earthen jar cannot contain the sea.
Chapter 170 Contd.
God says thus to the man who shall faithfully serve him: "I know your works, that you work for me. As I live eternally, your love shall not exceed my bounty. Because you serve me as God your creator, knowing yourself to be my work, and ask nought of me save grace and mercy to serve me faithfully; because you set no end to my service, seeing you desire to serve me eternally: even so will I do, for I will reward you as if you were God, my equal. For not only will I place in your hands the abundance of paradise, but I will give you myself as a gift, so that, even as you are fain to be my servant for ever, even so will I make your wages forever."'
Note: These things are missing from the Gospel-MUQ
Good post brother. Thank you.
You can see how they corrupt Jesus pbuh's message.
When he says.."God says.. worship me"....
the liars say "he says..worship me"!!!


Since: Mar 08


#170595 Apr 4, 2013
Shamma wrote:
Is Jesus God because He said Honor him as you Honor the Father?

That Jesus is God, is Bull Shit!

If one has love for God, one would honour the prophet. Nobody was honouring Jesus as God.

Honouring means respecting the person, obeying him and following him.

Look at the following passage:
" John 5:19-27 New Living Translation (NLT)
19 So Jesus explained,“I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything he is doing. In fact, the Father will show him how to do even greater works than healing this man. Then you will truly be astonished. 21 For just as the Father gives life to those he raises from the dead, so the Son gives life to anyone he wants. 22 In addition, the Father judges no one. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge, 23 so that everyone will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son is certainly not honoring the Father who sent him."
You can see how absurd that passage is. Jesus is speaking in 3rd person and it is quite obvious that many crooks wrote that. Jesus is not the speaker in above passage.

Compare the above fraudulent passage with the following passage from Jesus:

" 24 “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life."

Any idiot can see that Jesus is talking sense here but not in the absurd passage that I quoted above.

And look at another absurd statement and the reason given:

"27 And he has given him authority to judge everyone because he is the Son of Man."

Why was authority given to the son of man, when you foolishly claim he was the Son of God?

Don't tell me that Son of Man was Jesus' patent! This already debunks the claim that he was God.

People believed in Moses and honoured him because they knew he was sent by God. Same goes for Jesus.

Nobody made Moses the Son of God.

Do you see Jesus honouring his mother in the NT?

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#170596 Apr 4, 2013
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
BJ had NO power to forgive your sins. HE LIED.
You are blind Skeptic.
You hurt people.
You insult people.
You are under the influence of a very dangerous demon who is a "ONE-EYED naked PAGAN satan dangling off a phallus seducing you to CHEW his RAW flesh while you SUCK off his FRESH blood and juices"
Yes I do insult people Alex.
I insult them for their arrogant and stupidity.
You are insulting your own self, All I am doing is pointing out your stupidity Alex.

When you read the Bible you do not retain what you read.
So you are always searching for answers, and making dumb comments.

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