Who Is Allah?

Who Is Allah?

There are 256309 comments on the The Brussels Journal story from Aug 24, 2007, titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

Alex123 aka WM

London, UK

#168293 Mar 19, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>So you are publicly stating you support the murder of Christians by Muslims simply because Christian believe Jesus Chris is the Son of God.
And you support the Muslims right to murder innocent people under Muslims religious rules.
And you want to stop Christians from pointing out to Muslims that behavior of killing Christians for their beliefs is unacceptable.
Your point of view on that matter is unacceptable period Frijolies.
You are publicly LYING!

Frijoles does NOT support such atrocities. He will be among the first to condemn it.

No TRUE Muslim would ever support the killing of other innocent human beings - black, white, man, woman, gay, straight, christian, jew, hindu or any for that matter!

You are sick or what?
Buford Pusser

Hurricane, WV

#168294 Mar 19, 2013
MUQ wrote:
It is interesting to watch our "Lay Preacher and Bible Thumper" Paul WV discussing with two "Old Fashioned" Jews Eric and Frijoles.
Let him use the "blind statements" which he makes with Muslims about Bible with these two gentlemen.
I doubt if he can stand more than four or five posts.!!
I doubt if any Christian worth his or her name can argue with any Knowledgeable Jews and "prove" to them that OT books portray Jesus as the Messiah.
Besides Christians, it is ONLY Quran which recognizes Jesus as Messiah.
No Jew, no Hindu, No Buddhist, No Sikh, no Jain , none of the followers of thousands of religions in the world, recognizes Jesus as a prophet or a Messiah, or that he was born without a human father, or that he will come back to earth.
It is only Muslims who accept and recognize these facts, but it is Muslims whom Christians take as their "worst enemies"!!
If you send it to Mr. Ripley the Believe it or not guy, even he will refuse to accept it. But it is fact!!
From the Christian point of view, the greatest problem with Islam is its rejection of the most fundamental Christian teaching of all, namely, the vicarious death of Jesus on the cross and subsequent resurrection.

In short, it really doesn't matter if Islam agrees with Christianity on the conception of Jesus, his messiahship, and his future return, when it rejects the most important teaching of all as false. This is why Islam is by and large rejected by Christianity as a counterfeit religion that was compiled by an anti-christ who didn't know that he was being used to sow confusion.

The thing to also keep in mind is that Mohammad wasn't there to witness any of it. His six-centuries removed testimony is hearsay, inadmissible in a court of law, and that's a fact.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#168295 Mar 19, 2013
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
What did Jesus do, sit around telling Himself how humble He is and not speak out about the injustice around Him? No! He spoke out against injustice! Your comment makes no sense.
Injustice, like charity, starts at home.

Clean up your own backyard first.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#168296 Mar 19, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>That is a gay trait instinct of same sex preference.
I just posted the accepted diagnostic definition. The fact you cant read it is not my problem.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#168297 Mar 19, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>So you are publicly stating you support the murder of Christians by Muslims simply because Christian believe Jesus Chris is the Son of God.
And you support the Muslims right to murder innocent people under Muslims religious rules.
deflection. I didnt go there,

Stay on topic, willya.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#168298 Mar 19, 2013
Alex123 aka WM wrote:
<quoted text>

Please produce PROOF from Jesus saying...

"I am Jesus. I am your God who came to earth in human form as my own son to die for the sins of gentiles on a roman cross so that through belief in my unconditional/loving/willing sacrifice you can have eternal life. Worship me.

(Bonus poins: Worship and kiss the phallic cross and get your pope to kiss it and carry it with him)"
I will give you a million USD or equivalent in Euro or Sterling.
Thank you...
I wish to chip in. Double up the offer, bro!

No proof can be produced. There in nothing from Jesus' own mouth.

The script was written after the show was over.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#168299 Mar 19, 2013
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
The pope declared the Council of Basel heretical. Give links to your claims about the Council of Florence.
Interesting. One heretic declaring another heretic, heretical.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#168300 Mar 19, 2013
Alex123 aka WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Please produce PROOF from Jesus saying...
"I am Jesus. I am your God who came to earth in human form as my own son to die for the sins of gentiles on a roman cross so that through belief in my unconditional/loving/willing sacrifice you can have eternal life. Worship me.(Bonus poins: Worship and kiss the phallic cross and get your pope to kiss it and carry it with him)"
I will give you a million USD or equivalent in Euro or Sterling.
Thank you...
Give me your million dollars Alex.

John 10:30-33, What made the Jews want to kill Jesus?

"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God," (John 10:30-33)

What was it that Jesus had said or done that caused the Jews to say that He was claiming to be God? Was it "I and the Father are one"? If so, why would that cause the Jews to want to kill Jesus? Perhaps it was something else. Maybe it was something Jesus said elsewhere that made them so angry.

There are only two places in John where the Jews wanted to kill Jesus with stones. Both of these occur after Jesus spoke and made a claim about Himself. The first was in John 8:58-59 and the second was in John 10:30-33.
Here is the context of both verses:
1.John 8:56-59 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
57The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."
2.John 10:27-36, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." 34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law,'I said, you are gods'? 35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world,'You are blaspheming,' because I said,'I am the Son of God'?"

There is absolutely no reference to stones or stoning between John 8:59 and John 10:31. But in those two verses, the Jews responded to Jesus word's by wanting to kill Him. What was it that Jesus said in both cases that brought such a violent reaction? Here they are again...
1.John 8:58-59, "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him;
2.John 10:30-31, "I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him.

The first time the Jews wanted to kill Jesus was when He said, "Before Abraham was, I am." The second time wasn't until John 10:31 when they again wanted to kill Him after Jesus said, "I and the Father are one."

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#168301 Mar 19, 2013
Give me your million dollars Alex.

Let's look at these statements of Jesus.

John 8:58 and John 10:30

The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that John 8:58 should be translated as "...before Abraham was, I have been," not "I am." But what is it about saying, "I have been" that would motivate the Jews to want to kill Jesus? Was Jesus simply stating that He pre-existed? If so, they would have thought Him greatly deceived, and not worthy of being killed. Do we see any prior account of anyone in the Bible being killed for claiming to pre-exist? No. It isn't blasphemy to state that you have pre-existed. It is, however, blasphemy to claim to be God;1 after all, that is what the Jews accused Jesus of claiming for Himself in John 10:31 when they again picked up stones to kill Him. What was it that Jesus said that motivated them in John 10:31 and in John 8:59 to want to kill Jesus?

From what I have seen, the greater number of Bibles translate John 8:58 as, "Before Abraham was, I am." The words "I am" are "ego eimi" in the Greek and the construction is in the present tense. "I have been" is in the perfect tense in English. But it is the Greek of John 8:58 that is in the present tense, not the perfect tense (I have been). Remember, the Jews weren't mad at Jesus for speaking English (I have been) but for speaking Greek (I am). Therefore, what is it about the statement "Before Abraham was, I am" that would cause such anger and warrant Him being stoned to death?

Some say that in John 8, Jesus had said and done so many things, that by the time Jesus said, "I am" in verse 58, the Jews simply snapped and tried to kill Him. But, that doesn't hold with the Jews' statement in John 10:33 where they tell Jesus the reason; it was for claiming to be God. So, again, what is it about Jesus saying, "Before Abraham was, I am," (or, "I have been") that was so volatile and worthy of death according to the Jews?

The most natural explanation I see is that Jesus was referring back to when Moses was at the burning bush and asked God what His name was. God said, "I am that I am. Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I am has sent me to you," (Exodus 3:14). If we were to consider this as an explanation, then it makes sense why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus, since his statement "Before Abraham was, I am" would logically cause the Pharisees to think Jesus was claiming to be God -- which is exactly what they stated later as the reason for them wanting to kill Him.

There are, however, those who say that Jesus could not have been referring to Exodus 3:14 or that there is no reason to refer Christ's statement to Exodus 3:14. But, if that is so, then what other explanation is there for the Jews' desire to kill Jesus? What else would generate such a violate reaction from the Jews? Is there any other explanation that is suitable? Remember, the Jews gave their own reason for their anger. They said to Jesus, "...You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God," (John 10:33).

Therefore, we need to ask the Jehovah's Witness in what verse is it that Jesus was claiming to be God? Or, in what verse was it that could be construed and misinterpreted by the Jews to think that Jesus was claiming to be God?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#168302 Mar 19, 2013
Shamma wrote:
Give me your million dollars Alex.
Why bother - you would probably just blow it on booze and blow up dolls anyway.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#168303 Mar 19, 2013
Give me your million dollars Alex.

Finally, notice that the Jews absolutely denied that Jesus was God in flesh. Interestingly, so do the Jehovah's Witnesses. So, the Pharisees and the Jehovah's Witnesses are in agreement about who Jesus is not.

John 10:30

John 10:30 is an interesting statement by Jesus. He said, "I and the Father are one." What did Jesus mean? Was He saying that the He and the Father were one in purpose? If so, wouldn't the Jews claim the same thing as the sought to honor and serve God? Or perhaps, Jesus was saying they were of the same mind. If so, why didn't Jesus say so? Could it be that Jesus was saying that He and the Father were the same person? But this wouldn't make sense since Jesus said, "the Father and I," designating that they are not the same person. Finally, could it be that Jesus was claiming to be of the same essence of the Father; that is, He was claiming to be divine? If so, then this would make sense since the Pharisees certainly claimed that Jesus was claiming to be God.

"even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god," (NWT)

The Jehovah's Witness Bible called the New World Translation translates John 10:33 not as "You being a man make yourself out to be God," but as, "even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god." Notice the NWT says "a god", not "God". This is typical of the Watchtower Organization which seeks to obliterate any mention of Jesus' deity by altering the biblical text.


1.1901 ASV, makest thyself God
2.AMP, make Yourself [out to be] God
3.CEV, claiming to be God!"
4.Darby, makest thyself God
5.ESV, make yourself God
6.GLT, make Yourself God
7.Holman Bible, make Yourself God
8.KJ21, makest thyself God
9.KJV, makest thyself God
10.Modern KJV, make yourself God
11.MSG, calling yourself God

1.NAB, making yourself God
2.NASB, to be God
3.NIV, claim to be God
4.NKJV, make Yourself God
5.NLT, have made yourself God
6.Phillips, making yourself out to be God
7.RSV, make yourself God
8.WE, you say you are God
9.Webster's, makest thyself God"
10.WYC, makest thyself God
11.YLT, make thyself God

As you can see, out of 22 Bible versions, not one has "a god" translated as the Watchtower Organization does. Why? Because the Watchtower is biased against the deity of Christ and will take liberties to alter the English translation so as to suit its own theological needs.

Objection: You are deriving your theology from the Pharisees

On the contrary, I am doing no such thing. First of all, I do not agree with the Jews that Jesus is not God. It is the Jehovah's Witnesses who agree with the Jews on this. Remember, the theology of the Jews is that Jesus is not God. Since I believe Jesus is God, I am not deriving my theology from them. Second, whether or not the Jews are correctly or incorrectly understanding Jesus isn't the issue. The issue is what was it that Jesus said that caused them to say He was claiming to be God that so upset the Jews? If a Jehovah's Witness cannot answer the question, then he doesn't understand what is going on. It is simple. If he understood, then he could give an answer. If he can't answer, then how can he understand the rest of the Bible since the Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39) and this issue is dealing with Jesus' teachings about Himself? Third, the objection is a genetic fallacy; that is, it is saying that because the Pharisees said it, it can't be true. This is like saying that because an atheist says something about Jesus, it can't be true. Well, yes it can be true. Even atheists can understand what Jesus says and still not believe Him.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#168304 Mar 19, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>So you are publicly stating you support the murder of Christians by Muslims simply because Christian believe Jesus Chris is the Son of God.
And you support the Muslims right to murder innocent people under Muslims religious rules.
And you want to stop Christians from pointing out to Muslims that behavior of killing Christians for their beliefs is unacceptable.
Your point of view on that matter is unacceptable period Frijolies.
What is wrong with you presbyters and evangelist rogues?

No wonder Mahatama Gandhi had said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”

I agree with Gandhi. You are so unlike your Christ.

Right now, Muslims are killing Muslims. While they do that, this is what you should do:

Take four evangelists with you and go through the purification rites, sacrifice a goat at the Vatican and after that, all of you sit down and count how many millions of Jews were killed by Christians over centuries and compare with the number of Christians killed by Muslims.

Can a single Christian be like his Christ? Answer: Definitely no!

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#168305 Mar 19, 2013
Give me your million dollars Alex.

Questions for the JW's:
1.What was it that Jesus had said or done that caused the Pharisees to say that He was claiming to be God in John 10:33?
2.What was it about what Jesus said in John 8:58 that caused the Pharisees to want to kill Him?
3.From the New World Translation perspective, what is it about saying, "I have been" (John 8:58) that would motivate the Jews to want to kill Jesus?
4.Do we see any prior account of anyone in the Bible being killed for claiming to pre-exist if Jesus was merely claiming pre-existence?
5.Could you please explain what it was the Pharisees misunderstood and what they were misunderstanding to cause them to say what they did about Jesus' claim?
6.If a JW cannot answer the questions above, then A.Doesn't that mean he doesn't understand the text since he cannot answer the question?
B.If he doesn't understand this text about Jesus, then how can he understand the rest of the Bible since the Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39) and this passage is about Jesus' own teaching?

Jesus claimed He was the Son of God and proved it.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#168306 Mar 19, 2013
Just come back from the hospital where I was kept under observation for 24 hours by the doctors. The swelling is less. The force worked to quite an extent to reduce the pain yesterday...resting.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#168307 Mar 19, 2013
@ Shamma
This is a very good extract and it was written by a Christian. You must read it and I tell you, you will love it!

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi

The church saga — admin

"The above quote is one by Mahatma Gandhi that I have recently run across.

It somehow resonated with me, so much so that I bought the bumper sticker!

Now, I am not suggesting that we as Christians are expected to try to be just like Jesus.
No one can live under such a weight of pressure and guilt.

Neither am I defending Gandhi for his religious beliefs.

But at the same time, we cannot simply dismiss someone with such an enormous impact for good.

If we have integrity, we have to be willing to think hard about what he said about Christians.

Phillip Yancey helped me see this in his book The Soul Survivor.

Listen to a story he retells in that book:

Gandhi and Reverend Andrews, a Presbyterian missionary, were walking together in South Africa.
“The two suddenly find their way blocked by young thugs.

Reverend Andrews takes one look at the menacing gangsters and decides to run for it.

Gandhi stops him.‘Doesn’t the New Testament say if an enemy strikes you on the right cheek you should offer him the left?’

Andrews mumbles that he thought the phrase was used metaphorically.

‘I’m not so sure,’ Gandhi replies.‘I suspect he meant you must show courage - be willing to take a blow, several blows, to show you will not strike back nor will you be turned aside.

And when you do that it calls on something in human nature, something that makes his hatred decrease and his respect increase. I think Christ grasped that and I have seen it work.’”

Hope this does not go way above your head!
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#168308 Mar 19, 2013
Shamma wrote:
Jesus claimed He was the Son of God and proved it.
No!
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#168309 Mar 19, 2013
JOEL wrote:
Just come back from the hospital where I was kept under observation for 24 hours by the doctors. The swelling is less. The force worked to quite an extent to reduce the pain yesterday...resting.
And please make sure you go frequently for regular check up, because no infection should remain there.

That is very important.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#168310 Mar 19, 2013
Shamma wrote:
Give me your million dollars Alex.
Questions for the JW's:
1.What was it that Jesus had said or done that caused the Pharisees to say that He was claiming to be God in John 10:33?
2.What was it about what Jesus said in John 8:58 that caused the Pharisees to want to kill Him?
3.From the New World Translation perspective, what is it about saying, "I have been" (John 8:58) that would motivate the Jews to want to kill Jesus?
4.Do we see any prior account of anyone in the Bible being killed for claiming to pre-exist if Jesus was merely claiming pre-existence?
5.Could you please explain what it was the Pharisees misunderstood and what they were misunderstanding to cause them to say what they did about Jesus' claim?
6.If a JW cannot answer the questions above, then A.Doesn't that mean he doesn't understand the text since he cannot answer the question?
B.If he doesn't understand this text about Jesus, then how can he understand the rest of the Bible since the Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39) and this passage is about Jesus' own teaching?
Jesus claimed He was the Son of God and proved it.
Those are not valid and applicable questions.

All that was written four hundred years later. The Pharisees were not stupid like you Christians.

It is all made up stuff that you read, Shamma.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#168311 Mar 19, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Glad that you finally recognize humility.
Now you can understand the futility in criticizing people of other religions. The glasshouse-stones thing.
I look forward to your faith-inspired change in behavior on this thread.
The religions have given up killing for their God, but Muslims have not.
And your post you want those that don't kill for their God to allow Muslims to continue to kill Christians for their God.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#168312 Mar 19, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Why bother - you would probably just blow it on booze and blow up dolls anyway.
lol!

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