Who Is Allah?

Aug 24, 2007 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Brussels Journal

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

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uhuh

Sevilla, Spain

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#157199
Jan 2, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
Can you post any sources that support this (that he was inclined to a karaitic point of view)?
no assertion, just educated assumption,
because Karaim flourished in that era, and unlike the Rabbaniyim (who followed the "frozen version of Judaism"), they have a more lenient attitude toward Jesus and Muhammad; the former a Samaritan prophet, the latter an Arabian prophet
they even adapted islamic Kalam philosophy
Frijoles wrote:
The guy was an obscure rabbi in an obscure closed kingdom. I would be suprised if there was any detailed volume of work about him.
therefore his view on gentile prophets was not mainstream
what he wrote was virtually unknown until 1908
uhuh

Sevilla, Spain

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#157200
Jan 2, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
http://www.jewfaq.org/prophet. htm
What is a Prophet?
Many people today think of a prophet as any person who sees the future. While the gift of prophecy certainly includes the ability to see the future, a prophet is far more than just a person with that ability.
The Talmud teaches that there were hundreds of thousands of prophets: twice as many as the number of people who left Egypt, which was 600,000.
A prophet is not necessarily a Jew. The Talmud reports that there were prophets among the gentiles (most notably Balaam, whose story is told in Numbers 22). And some of the prophets, such as Jonah, were sent on missions to speak to the gentiles.
apparently jewfaq is misleading the gentile readers

"It has been taught: Many prophets arose FOR Israel, double the number of the Israelites who came out of Egypt" (Megillah 14a)

Balaam was a "prophet" only in the sense that he could prophesy

Jonah was SENT to gentiles, he himself was a Hebrew (Jonah 1:9)
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#157201
Jan 2, 2013
 
uhuh wrote:
<quoted text>no assertion, just educated assumption,
because Karaim flourished in that era, and unlike the Rabbaniyim (who followed the "frozen version of Judaism"), they have a more lenient attitude toward Jesus and Muhammad; the former a Samaritan prophet, the latter an Arabian prophet
they even adapted islamic Kalam philosophy
<quoted text>therefore his view on gentile prophets was not mainstream
what he wrote was virtually unknown until 1908
Agreed that he was obscure (not that there is anything wrong with that!)

But others might hold similar views. I almost do. Convergent evolution.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#157202
Jan 2, 2013
 
uhuh wrote:
<quoted text>
apparently jewfaq is misleading the gentile readers
"It has been taught: Many prophets arose FOR Israel, double the number of the Israelites who came out of Egypt" (Megillah 14a)
Balaam was a "prophet" only in the sense that he could prophesy
Jonah was SENT to gentiles, he himself was a Hebrew (Jonah 1:9)
Misleading is a matter of opinion.

Its been my experience among modern Judaism that there is a breadth of diversity on this and other subjects.

For what its worth, very little in the Talmud stands without a counter opinion.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#157204
Jan 2, 2013
 
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12...

This pretty much sums it up - in a more detailed manner

It depends, in part, upon one's definition of prophecy

on one hand

"...Prophecy was not regarded as confined to Israel. The "nations of the world" had seven prophets (B. B. 15b; comp. Eccl. R. iii. 19). Before the building of the Tabernacle, the nations shared the gift with Israel (Lev. R. i.; Cant. R. ii. 3). The restriction of prophecy to Israel was due to Moses' prayer (Ex. xxxi. 16; Ex. R. xxxii.; Ber. 7a). To "the nations" the prophets come only at night (Gen. R. lii.; Lev. R. i.) and speak only with a "half" address (Lev. R. ix.); but to Israel they speak in open daylight. The distinction between the manner in which God speaks to the prophets of Israel and those of the "nations" is explained in a parable about a king who spoke directly to his friend (Israel), but to strangers only from behind a curtain (Gen. R. lii.). Again, to the "prophets of the nations" God discloses His will only as one stationed afar off; to those of Israel as one standing most close (Lev. R. i.). Balaam is regarded as the most eminent of the non-Jewish prophets (see Geiger's "Jüd. Zeit." vol. i.)...."

on the other hand

"...Modern Jewish theologians have contributed but little to the elucidation of the phenomenon of prophecy. Most of the catechisms are content to repeat Maimonides' analysis (so with Einhorn's "Ner Tamid"); others evade the question altogether. Maybaum ("Prophet und Prophetismus im Alten Israel") has not entered into a full discussion of the psychological factors involved. The views of the critical school, however, have come to be adopted by many modern Jewish authors..."
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#157206
Jan 2, 2013
 
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Rabbee,
Do you have any place for this critter trinity, created by the subtle beasts of the fields, in your TheTorah? Please advise.
rabbee: well we are actually here in TheLittle Book of Parashas Bereeshees actually again. and i do not see any of you, talking critters, acting any idoly different than the last two times. so no! you all have not gotten out of being here, in This Same Again Story of Creation again from G-D.

so no! you all don't really know TheTorah, for being here in IT thrice again. with the whole world, just as mentally screwed up, as your all twice before. as if you are ever, going to get out of being here in TheStory of Creation agains'es. you may be able to mentally avoid being here in TheTorah. but physically you can never actually, get out of being here in IT.
Mahmood

Woodstock, Canada

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#157207
Jan 2, 2013
 

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bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
I have the names and I have already told you that I will not give the names.
I want you to do some research. My point was that the history of Islam and the Prophet did not come only from Ibn Asshaq 130 years later, as suggested by you.
It is so silly to suggest that. Go and study.
You are not only a liar, but a hypocrite as well. You have proven that men of religion are guilty of all kinds of intellectual dishonesty and intellectual misdemeanor. Your problem is that you have no names, no authors, and no books. It's not that you dont want to give out the names, you do not have the bloody names. Not only that, you run down all material outside the Koran. That has been your habit all along, and now all of a sudden you are relying on pre-Ishaq biographies on Mohammad...is that not double standard hypocricy?

There could have been people who narrated anecdotes about Mohammad, however, they are not documented...at least not in a book form. Talk about research, I have read so many books on Islam that your head will spin.
Buford

Hurricane, WV

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#157208
Jan 2, 2013
 

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bmz wrote:
That is why I, being a thinking person, chose Muhammad over the Biblical Jesus. The man himself was an skeptic and was also not so sure about himself.
He did not really have any clue about himself and would go and ask idiots to find who people thought he was, when he should have been the one to tell people, who he was. This shows a lack of self-confidence and a lack of self-esteem.
I am also not really influenced by the large number of ignorant fools, known as Christians, who also do not know who he really was. So, it appears to be the case of a blind Jesus, who led the blind and the clueless.
Here, I would like to stress that Jesus was a 29-30 years old young man, who could not convince men twice his age. Perhaps that was the main reason he failed to get any recognition.
Another important point is that he was not coherent. Thinking people want to hear a coherent person, who lays down everything straight. That is why thinking Christians are now grilling their own scripture and religion, which make no sense. They make fun of the doctrines fabricated and that thinking process is a sign of the Cult of Christianity going down the hill.
Muhammad was extremely coherent, reasoned with folks and convinced them. Muhammad talked only about God, while Jesus talked about the Father, as if he was his own father. That must have pissed off the thinking people.
Give it up. You are an embarassment.

Since: Dec 12

UK

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#157209
Jan 2, 2013
 

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the only sources I have found pre-dating Ishaq are the following:

Aban b.`Uthman al-Bajkali
(640-718 C.E.), son of the caliph who wrote a book on maghazi which has not survived, nor has it been cited by Ibn Ishaq or al-Waqidi.

`Urwa b. al-Zubayr b. al-Awwam
(643-712 C.E.) the cousin of the Prophet and referred to the founder of Islamic history. There is doubt that he authored anything, but there are many traditiions that have been handed down in his name.

Urwah wrote many books but, fearing they might become sources of authority alongside the Qur'an, destroyed them the day of the Battle of al-Harrah. He later he regretted that, saying "I would rather have them in my possession than my family and property twice over."

Therefore it seems clear that there is no trace of any written works before Ishaq
Buford

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#157210
Jan 2, 2013
 

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Truth be told, Jesus' enemies at the time of his appearance in Israel thought that he was a demon possessed and empowered bastard, being certain that his mother Mary was a fornicater who, for whatever reason, was rescued from the penalty of death, as specified in the law of Moses as it applied to fornicaters, by some lawbreaking guy named Joseph who decided to marry her anyway, according to Luke.

The idea that Jesus could have been miraculously conceived was evidently NOT in their program guide. I mean, was the Messiah SUPPOSED to make such a dramatic entrance?
Buford

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#157211
Jan 2, 2013
 

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CORRECTION:

Truth be told, Jesus' enemies at the time of his appearance in Israel thought that he was a demon possessed and empowered bastard, being certain that his mother Mary was a FORNICATOR who, for whatever reason, was rescued from the penalty of death, as specified in the law of Moses as it applied to FORNICATORS, by some lawbreaking guy named Joseph who decided to marry her anyway, according to Luke.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#157212
Jan 2, 2013
 
Truth be told, no Messiah was promised by God to the Hebrews and others through Moses and the Torah.

Truth also be told, the Messiah was never supposed to be the so-called 'Son of God'. No such thing as "the Son of God" was ever mentioned or promised
to the Hebrews and the Jews.

Truth also be told, God never told anyone that God would come down as the Messiah.

Truth again be told, the Messiah for whom the Jews were and still are waiting for, was and is supposed to be a man coming from the line of David. And we don't know if there is a person, who can claim that he is truly from David's line. Even DNA and other methods would not be of any help.

Truth be finally told, God can create anything that God wishes to. So, God created a man by the name Jesus, without any man touching his mother. That was no problem for God. No big deal!

End of the story.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#157213
Jan 2, 2013
 

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El Morales wrote:
the only sources I have found pre-dating Ishaq are the following:
Aban b.`Uthman al-Bajkali
(640-718 C.E.), son of the caliph who wrote a book on maghazi which has not survived, nor has it been cited by Ibn Ishaq or al-Waqidi.
`Urwa b. al-Zubayr b. al-Awwam
(643-712 C.E.) the cousin of the Prophet and referred to the founder of Islamic history. There is doubt that he authored anything, but there are many traditiions that have been handed down in his name.
Urwah wrote many books but, fearing they might become sources of authority alongside the Qur'an, destroyed them the day of the Battle of al-Harrah. He later he regretted that, saying "I would rather have them in my possession than my family and property twice over."
Therefore it seems clear that there is no trace of any written works before Ishaq
I beg to disagree. Please continue with your search.

Even the so-called books of Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham have not survived. They do not exist.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

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#157217
Jan 2, 2013
 

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Buford wrote:
<quoted text>Give it up. You are an embarassment.
I really enjoy your silly one-liners, when you are embarrassed and are totally unable to refute anything. I find that amusing and entertaining.

That reminds me of Thomas asking Jesus something like this: "Lord, we do not know the way, show us the way."

And instead of showing him the way, Jesus is reported to have offered the one-liner saying, "I am the way", but doesn't tell him that he has to die first in order to go back to God.
Buford

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#157219
Jan 2, 2013
 

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bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
I really enjoy your silly one-liners, when you are embarrassed and are totally unable to refute anything. I find that amusing and entertaining.
That reminds me of Thomas asking Jesus something like this: "Lord, we do not know the way, show us the way."
And instead of showing him the way, Jesus is reported to have offered the one-liner saying, "I am the way", but doesn't tell him that he has to die first in order to go back to God.
I suppose that in your circle of friends, you are regarded as the most brilliant...
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#157220
Jan 2, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree
...

The Talmud states that the writings of the prophets will not be necessary in the World to Come, because in that day, all people will be mentally, spiritually and ethically perfect, and all will have the gift of prophecy.
Well the Talmud has got that wrong, because the Last of Prophet has come and the world till its end shall need the sayings and actions of the last prophet.

But there are many things in your post with which I agree.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#157221
Jan 2, 2013
 
Mahmood wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not only a liar, but a hypocrite as well.

You have proven that men of religion are guilty of all kinds of intellectual dishonesty and intellectual misdemeanor. Your problem is that you have no names, no authors, and no books. It's not that you dont want to give out the names, you do not have the bloody names. Not only that, you run down all material outside the Koran. That has been your habit all along, and now all of a sudden you are relying on pre-Ishaq biographies on Mohammad...is that not double standard hypocricy?
There could have been people who narrated anecdotes about Mohammad, however, they are not documented...at least not in a book form. Talk about research, I have read so many books on Islam that your head will spin.
That is a defeatist attitude and a defeatist answer.

You have already proved to me that you have not read 'sooooo many' books on Islam.

I do not have to rely on anything. The point is that all polemicists including your goodself are ignorant fools, who think that the history of Islam was written by three bloody fools only, namely the trinity of Ibn Asshaq-Hisham-Waqidi, who wrote their scraps and rubbish 130 plus years after the Prophet had passed away and think that there was no one else who wrote. That is idiotic.

All anti-Islam folks and polemicists only talk through that junk and stuff of the three stooges.

Sometime ago, you had told me that you have a copy of the book by Ibn Ishaq. Right? There is no copy of any book by Ibn Ishaq. It does not exist.

Anyway, my point still is that you need to do more search in order to find out the names of folks, who wrote before those three bloody fools and what they wrote is still preserved.

Your comments also tell me that you have not even read the entire book written by the William Muir, the crudest polemicist, who wrote on the prophet and Islam and never realized how utterly absurd were his own Bible and his own religion Christianity.

If you had read so well as you claim, you would have known that. I don't believe that you are that well-read.
MUQ

Saudi Arabia

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#157222
Jan 2, 2013
 
Excerpts from the Gospel of Barnabas, Part-24

Chapter 48 : How the problem of Jesus being called Son of God or God started

At that time the army of the Romans was in Judea, our country being subject to them for the sins of our forefathers. Now it was the custom of the Romans to call god and to worship him that did any new thing of benefit to the common people. And so [some] of these soldiers finding themselves in Nain, they rebuked now one, now another, saying: "One of your gods has visited you, and you make no account of it. Assuredly if our gods should visit us we would give them all that we have. And you see how much we fear our gods, since to their images we give the best of all we have."

Satan did so instigate this manner of speaking that he aroused no small sedition among the people of Nain." But Jesus did not tarry in Nain, but turned to go into Capernaum. The discord of Nain was such that some said: "He is our God who has visited us"; others said: "God is invisible, so that none has seen him, not even Moses, his servant; therefore it is not God, but rather his son." Others said: "He is not God, nor son of God, for God has not a body to beget anything; but he is a great prophet of God." And so did Satan instigate that, in the third year of the prophetic ministry of Jesus, great ruin to our people was like to arise there from…

Note: This is the mistake into which Paul led to whole Christianity (MUQ).

Chapter 49 Do Not Judge
The scribe that day read the psalm of David, where says David: When I shall find a time, I will judge uprightly. Then, after the reading of the prophets, arose Jesus, and made sign of silence with his hands, and opening his mouth he spoke thus: "Brethren, you have heard the words spoken by David the prophet, our father, that when he should have found a time he would judge uprightly. I tell you in truth that many judge, in which judgment they fall for no other reason than because they judge that which is not meet for them, and that which is meet for them they judge before the time. Wherefore the God of our fathers cries to us by his prophet David, saying: Justly judge, O sons of men.

Miserable therefore are those who set themselves at street corners, and do nothing but judge all those who pass by, saying: "That one is fair, this one is ugly, that one is good, this one is bad." Woe to them, because they lift the sceptre of his judgment from the hand of God, who says: "I am witness and judge, and my honour I will give to none.'" Truly I tell you that these testify of that which they have not seen nor really heard, and judge without having been constituted judges. Therefore are they abominable on the earth before the eyes of God, who will pass tremendous judgment upon them in the last day.

Note: This is also confirmed by existing Gospels (MUQ)
Chapter 50 Do Not Judge

Tell me, O man, you that judge another man, do you not know that all men had their origin in the same clay? Do you not know that none is good save God alone? wherefore every man is a liar and a sinner.…

Oh, how many have perished through false judgment, and how many ha+ve been near to perishing! Pharaoh judged Moses and the people of Israel to be impious, Saul judged David to be worthy of death, Ahab judged Elijah, Nebuchadnezzar the three children who would not worship their lying gods. The two elders judged Susanna, and all the idolatrous princes judged the prophets. Oh, tremendous judgment of God! the judge perishes, the judged is saved. And wherefore this, O man, if not because [in] rashness they falsely judge the innocent?….

And then, Jesus having finished his speech, many forthwith were converted to repentance, bewailing their sins; and they would fain have forsaken all to go with him.

Note: This is also confirmed by Other Gospels (MUQ)
(Abridged)
Buford

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#157226
Jan 2, 2013
 

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MUQ wrote:
Well the Talmud has got that wrong, because the Last of Prophet has come and the world till its end shall need the sayings and actions of the last prophet.
But there are many things in your post with which I agree.
By "actions of the last prophet" do you mean that the world will need to murder any and all critics of your "Last of Prophet," especially the Jewish poet critics, since that's what ordered "by Allah?"
Buford

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#157227
Jan 2, 2013
 

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CORRECTION:

By "actions of the last prophet" do you mean that the world will need to murder any and all critics of your "Last of Prophet," especially the Jewish poet critics, since that's what HE ordered "by Allah?"

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