Why Atheism Will Replace Religion

Aug 27, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: News24

Please note that for this article "Atheism" also includes agnostics, deists, pagans, wiccans... in other words non-religious.

You will notice this is a statement of fact. And to be fact it is supported by evidence (see references below). Now you can have "faith" that this is not true, but by the very definition of faith, that is just wishful thinking.

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Imhotep

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#9600
Apr 20, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
What do you think about the Boston bombers being Muslim? It seems when terrorism happens it so often is a Muslim doing it. Thoughts?
<quoted text>
You should know of Pat but if you don't you'll enjoy him

http://www.patcondell.net/

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#9601
Apr 20, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
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What?
Read the buybull, you should know what you beleive.

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#9602
Apr 20, 2013
 
:)
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>You should know of Pat but if you don't you'll enjoy him

http://www.patcondell.net/

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#9603
Apr 20, 2013
 

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Jumper The Wise wrote:
I was surprised they were white.
I WASN'T surprised they were religious, worshiping that stupid Abrahamic God.

Religion is an evil, vile thing.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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imhetop wrote:
I beg to differ you should be inspired with this

Why do I say this

01. Today’s scholars can only use the known, that is historical reigning Roman Emperors as a reference in determining dates.

02. So, since the Bible clearly and unambiguously claims that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the King, then he, Jesus, had to have been born no later than 4 B.C.

What a delicious irony! Jesus could only have been born a minimum of four years before the birth of Jesus.

After you stop laughing though, consider the import of this paradox.

I should mention this also

03. Meeting for the first time in March 1985, the Jesus Seminar has periodically brought together dozens of university scholars and gospel specialists representing every shade of Christian thought, plus a few Jews and atheists.

In their initial study, the scholars collected more than 1500 versions of approximately 500 Jesus parables, aphorisms, dialogues, and stories written during the first 300 years of Christianity.

After 6 years of debate and reflection the consensus was that 82% of the words attributed to Jesus were fake.

04. In phase two, between 1991 and 1996, the Jesus Seminar considered 387 versions of 176 'Jesus events'. Their conclusion: 84% of the activities attributed to Jesus were bogus.

05. In contrast, Caesar's words and deeds are fully documented by multiple witnesses.

Caesar was an eyewitness to many of the events he describes in his commentaries. He wrote not for posterity but to have an immediate impact on the power players in Rome as he schemed to advance his own career.

The elapsed time between the wars and Caesar's own writing was a matter of months or at most a few years.

06. In contrast, the elapsed time between the gospel reports and the supposed events that they describe is at least 40 years for 'Mark' and 60-70 years for the other three Gospels.

Ans.

That was a very interesting angle which you have mentioned.

Jesus date of birth and his day of birth (25 December) were "fixed" by the Church, not based on any eye witness account or any historical report.

So I will not be surprised if actual date of birth of Jesus be 4 BC. BC and AC are dates that are "used" in common sense.

As regards the authenticity of words spoken by Jesus and Caesar, I can only say that both have to be scrutinized without any bias.

If you can prove that words of Caesar were "faithfully and verbatim" recorded by his scribes and those records are physically available with us, or being preserved in their original condition, I have no problem accepting it.

But I doubt, if any old document has been preserved with so much care, as we see for religious scriptures.

But any inscription on tomb walls or engraved on stone shall stay safe and sound for many centuries.

But what we say is that there is difference between Caesars and Prophets of God. Words of Caesars have no lasting values, where as words and uttering of Prophets of God have a permanent value.

Christians record of Jesus' words has been patchy, but we cannot say that all his teachings have vanished from the face of earth.

Fortunately there is another Book, Quran which preserves his many words and provides basic information on his birth and his mission.

We can use that as a tool to separate grain from the hash, so to say, from existing Gospels.

Allah Knows Best.

PS:

Once again I thank you for a very interesting post.
EdSed

Wishaw, UK

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Apr 21, 2013
 

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Jumper The Wise wrote:
I was surprised they were white.
I wasn't. The 7/7 bombers were even more 'home grown'. Arguably, they are partly the result of western society as well as Islamic fundamentalism.

'Western culture' is difficult because with freedoms come responsibilities.'Westerners'( like Australians and Taiwanese)have to think for ourselves. Not everyone can do that, especially when their own family rejects them and calls them 'losers'. Many people long for community and to feel 'part of something'-(not everyone and may be not most, but many people do). Keeping 'oneself to oneself' is commonly seen as positive and individualism is prized in 'Western culture'. That can be lonely, perhaps especially if one has experience of a culture where belonging and relationships are all-important.

Their upbringing also involved having to move from their own country due to violence and having a childhood in a number of very different environments.
Imhotep

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#9606
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MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
That was a very interesting angle which you have mentioned.
As regards the authenticity of words spoken by Jesus and Caesar, I can only say that both have to be scrutinized without any bias.
If you
We can use that as a tool to separate grain from the hash, so to say, from existing Gospels.
Allah Knows Best.
PS:
Once again I thank you for a very interesting post.
Let's cut to the chase Shall we?

Like those of the Jewish writer Josephus, the works of the ancient historians Pliny, Suetonius and Tacitus do not provide proof that Jesus Christ ever existed as a "historical" character.

Pliny the Younger, Roman Official and Historian (62-113 CE)
Tacitus, Roman Politician and Historian,(c. 56-120 CE)
Suetonius, Roman Historian (c. 69-c. 122 CE)

When addressing the mythical nature of Jesus Christ, one issue repeatedly raised is the purported "evidence" of his existence to be found in the writings of Flavius Josephus, the famed Jewish general and historian who lived from about 37 to 100 CE.

In Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews appears the notorious passage regarding Christ called the "Testimonium Flavianum" ("TF"):

"Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."

The are: No sculptures, no drawings, no markings in stone, nothing written in his own hand; and no letters, no commentaries, indeed no authentic documents written by his Jewish and Gentile contemporaries, Justice of Tiberius, Philo, Josephus, Seneca, Petronius Arbiter, Pliny the Elder, et al., to lend credence to his historicity.
In the final analysis there is no evidence that the biblical character called "Jesus Christ" ever existed.

All of these historians were born well after the alleged events.

'Hearsay' is not 'evidence' for a reason!

Caesar by comparison is easily verified.

For example, the Egyptians certainly recorded events such as eclipses of the sun and the levels of the Nile Flood. Were the Nile to have turned to blood and every firstborn child suddenly have died, not to mention all of the other plagues mentioned in Exodus, there would have doubtless been some record left, particularly during the New Kingdom.

For many centuries the Egyptians were present in Palestine, controlling the trade routes and importing the timber, olive oil and minerals not found in Egypt.

Archaeology has uncovered dramatic evidence of this pervasive Egyptian presence in 'Canaan'– yet nowhere does the Bible refer to Egyptians outside of Egypt.

It would spoil the story!!

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There is no historical proof for this Muhammad either. Most likely he was an Arab general who after his death was deified.
Imhotep

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Givemeliberty wrote:
There is no historical proof for this Muhammad either. Most likely he was an Arab general who after his death was deified.
Yes indeed - all of the desert religions are fabrications

“Liberty & Justice For All”

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#9610
Apr 21, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's cut to the chase Shall we?
Like those of the Jewish writer Josephus, the works of the ancient historians Pliny, Suetonius and Tacitus do not provide proof that Jesus Christ ever existed as a "historical" character.
Pliny the Younger, Roman Official and Historian (62-113 CE)
Tacitus, Roman Politician and Historian,(c. 56-120 CE)
Suetonius, Roman Historian (c. 69-c. 122 CE)
When addressing the mythical nature of Jesus Christ, one issue repeatedly raised is the purported "evidence" of his existence to be found in the writings of Flavius Josephus, the famed Jewish general and historian who lived from about 37 to 100 CE.
In Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews appears the notorious passage regarding Christ called the "Testimonium Flavianum" ("TF"):....

.....'Hearsay' is not 'evidence' for a reason!
Caesar by comparison is easily verified.
For example, the Egyptians certainly recorded events such as eclipses of the sun and the levels of the Nile Flood. Were the Nile to have turned to blood and every firstborn child suddenly have died, not to mention all of the other plagues mentioned in Exodus, there would have doubtless been some record left, particularly during the New Kingdom.
For many centuries the Egyptians were present in Palestine, controlling the trade routes and importing the timber, olive oil and minerals not found in Egypt.
Archaeology has uncovered dramatic evidence of this pervasive Egyptian presence in 'Canaan'– yet nowhere does the Bible refer to Egyptians outside of Egypt.
It would spoil the story!!
LOL You keep posting the same ol same ol ignorant anti-theist garbage from the same ol same ol ignorant anti-theist websites.

Garbage in, garbage out, bubba.....

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#9611
Apr 21, 2013
 

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ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL You keep posting the same ol same ol ignorant anti-theist garbage from the same ol same ol ignorant anti-theist websites.
Garbage in, garbage out, bubba.....
So no proof of god then. Just checking.

“Liberty & Justice For All”

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-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
So no proof of god then. Just checking.
Yeah, decades ago. Whitehead's "Theory of Actual Occasion" is the mathematical proof of a First Cause, which most people choose to call by culturally esoteric names such as Allah, Yahwah, Ahura Mazda, Brahma, Great Spirit, Cosmic Consciousness, the Force, God, etc.

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His lame version of the ontological argument? Been refuted convincingly repeatedly.

Sorry but it's rathe pathetic
ezdzit wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, decades ago. Whitehead's "Theory of Actual Occasion" is the mathematical proof of a First Cause, which most people choose to call by culturally esoteric names such as Allah, Yahwah, Ahura Mazda, Brahma, Great Spirit, Cosmic Consciousness, the Force, God, etc.

“Liberty & Justice For All”

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"There are deep similarities between Whitehead's idea of the process by which nature unfolds and the ideas of quantum theory. Whitehead says that the world is made of actual 'occasions', each of which arises from potentialities created by prior actual occasions. These actual occasions are 'happenings' modeled on experiential events, each of which comes into being and then perishes, only to be replaced by a successor. It is these experience-like 'happenings' that are the basic realities of nature, according to Whitehead, not the persisting physical particles that Newtonian physics took to be the basic entities.

Similarly, Heisenberg says that what is really happening in a quantum process is the emergence of an 'actual' from potentialities created by prior actualities. In the orthodox Copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory the actual things to which the theory refer[s] are increments in 'our knowledge'. These increments are experiential events. The particles of classical physics lose their fundamental status: they dissolve into diffuse clouds of possibilities. At each stage of the unfolding of nature the complete cloud of possibilities acts like the potentiality for the occurrence of a next increment in knowledge..."

--Henry P. Stapp, author of "Mind, Matter, and Quantum Mechanics", Silver Anniversary International Whitehead Conference, Claremont, CA, August 4-9, 1998.

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Whitehead sadly for all his positive work fell hard into the kooky world of the metaphysical.

He relied heavily on the ontological argument. An eloquently worded logical fallacy is still a logical fallacy.
ezdzit wrote:
"There are deep similarities between Whitehead's idea

--Henry P. Stapp, author of "Mind, Matter, and Quantum Mechanics", Silver Anniversary International Whitehead Conference, Claremont, CA, August 4-9, 1998.

“Liberty & Justice For All”

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“Mind and Matter Research: Frontiers and Directions”Wildbad Kreuth, Germany, July 2006

"....Due undoubtedly, at least in part, to the impact of Bohr’ philosophy, most quantumphysicists have been reluctant even to try to construct an ontology compatible with thevalidity of the massively validated pragmatic quantum rules. However, because of thisreticence we are faced today with the spectacle of our society being built increasinglyupon a mechanistic Newtonian-physics-based conception of reality that is known to be fundamentally false.

Specifically, the quintessential role of our conscious choices in contemporary physical theory and practice, is being systematically ignored and even denied. Influential philosophers, pretending to speak for science, claim, on the basis of a fundamentally false scientific theory, that the (empirically manifest) influence of our conscious efforts upon our bodily actions, which constitutes both the rational and the intuitive basis of our functioning in this world, is an illusion. As a consequence of this widely disseminated misinformation the “well informed” officials, administrators, legislators, judges, and educators who actually guide the course of societal developmenttend to alter the structure of our lives in ways predicated on an outdated notion of “nature and nature’s laws”

Bohr’s pragmatic quantum philosophy emphasizes the active role that we human beingsplay in the development of our scientific knowledge. But this orientation tends to lead toan anthropocentric conception of reality. An escape from that parochialism is provided by the ideas of the eminent philosopher, physicist, and logician Alfred North Whitehead. He created a conception of natural process that captures the essential innovations wrought by quantum theory in a way that allows our human involvement, as explicitly specified by quantum theory, to be understood within a non-anthropocentric conception of nature.

Whitehead, acting as both physicist and philosopher, struggled to reconcile the disclosures of early twentieth century physics with the insights and arguments of the giants of Western philosophy, including, most prominently, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes,Leibniz, Locke, Hume, Kant, and William James.

I shall describe here a conception of reality that expresses, primarily, the ontological ideas of Werner Heisenberg, the principal founder of quantum theory, expressed within the ontologically construed Tomonaga-Schwinger formulation of relativistic quantumfield theory. This ontology is in total accord with certain of the key ideas of Whitehead....."

“Think&Care”

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ezdzit wrote:
“Mind and Matter Research: Frontiers and Directions”Wildbad Kreuth, Germany, July 2006
"....Due undoubtedly, at least in part, to the impact of Bohr’ philosophy, most quantumphysicists have been reluctant even to try to construct an ontology compatible with thevalidity of the massively validated pragmatic quantum rules.
I'd say the reluctance isn't so much due to Bohr's philosophy or the Copenhagen interpretation as it is due to Bell's inequalities and the Aspect experiment. In particular, the realist idea that particles have definite properties between measurements is known to be false.

There is also a reluctance among physicists to do philosophy as they see it as of rather low value.
However, because of thisreticence we are faced today with the spectacle of our society being built increasinglyupon a mechanistic Newtonian-physics-based conception of reality that is known to be fundamentally false.
On the contrary, a sizable fraction of our economy is based on technology that comes directly from quantum mechanics, whether it be lasers, MRI scanners, developments in solid-state theory, etc.
Specifically, the quintessential role of our conscious choices in contemporary physical theory and practice, is being systematically ignored and even denied.
That is mostly because it is known to be wrong. Decoherence theory decisively removes consciousness from quantum theory.
Bohr’s pragmatic quantum philosophy emphasizes the active role that we human beingsplay in the development of our scientific knowledge. But this orientation tends to lead toan anthropocentric conception of reality. An escape from that parochialism is provided by the ideas of the eminent philosopher, physicist, and logician Alfred North Whitehead. He created a conception of natural process that captures the essential innovations wrought by quantum theory in a way that allows our human involvement, as explicitly specified by quantum theory, to be understood within a non-anthropocentric conception of nature.
A much better way to avoid anthropocentrism is to look at the developments over the last 4 decades in understanding decoherence. What was considered under the Copenhagen interpretation to be a special role for observation has become a simple understanding that interaction with the larger environment serves to decohere quantum states quickly and efficiently and gives the *appearance* of collapse of wave functions.

“Liberty & Justice For All”

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Consciousness, Whitehead and quantum computation in the brain: Panprotopsychism meets the physics of fundamental spacetime geometry

Stuart Hameroff

“.....Abner Shimony (1993; 1997) recognized that Whitehead’s approach was potentially compatible with modern physics, specifically quantum theory, with quantum state reductions—actual events—appearing to represent “occasions”. Quantum theory is a description of reality at small scales. To appreciate Shimony’s “modern Whiteheadianism” and bridge the gap between philosophy and physics for a scientific description of consciousness we must first attempt to come to grips with the unsettling features of quantum theory....

.....In the quantum realm (and the boundary between the quantum and classical worlds remains mysterious) objects may exist in two or more states or places simultaneously—more like waves than particles and governed by a “quantum wave function”. This property of multiple coexisting possibilities, known as quantum superposition, persists until the superposition is measured, observed or interacts with the classical world or environment. Only then does the superposition of multiple possibilities “reduce”,“collapse”,“actualize ”,“choose” or “decohere” to specific, particular classical states. Early experiments seemed to show that even if a machine measured a quantum superposition, the multiple possibilities persisted until the machine’s results were observed by a conscious human. This led leading quantum theorists including Bohr, Heisenberg and Wigner to conclude that consciousness caused quantum state reduction, that consciousness “collapsed the wave function”(the “Copenhagen interpretation”, reflecting the Danish origin of Nils Bohr, its leading proponent)....

Another quantum property is entanglement, or quantum coherence, in which components of a system become unified, governed by one common quantum wave function. If one member of an entangled system is measured or perturbed, other members are instantaneously affected, even over great distances. One example of entanglement is the famous “EPR pairs”(after Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen who posed the problem as a thought experiment in the 1930’s). Imagine two members of a quantum system (e.g. two electrons with complementary spin: if one is spin up, the other is spin down, and vice versa). If the paired electrons (both in superposition of both spin up and spin down) are separated by being sent along different wires, say to two different villages miles apart from each other, they each remain in superposition. However when one superpositioned electron is measured by a detector at its destination and reduces/collapses to a particular spin,(say spin up), its entangled twin miles away instantaneously reduces/collapses to the complementary spin down. The experiment has been done repeatedly with electron spin pairs, polarized photons and other quantum systems and always results in instantaneous reduction to the complementary classical state (e.g. Aspect et al, 1982). The instantaneous, faster than light coupling, or “entanglement” remains unexplained.

Another form of entanglement occurs in quantum coherent systems such as Bose-Einstein condensates (proposed by Bose and Einstein decades ago but realized in the 1990’s). A group of atoms or molecules are brought into a quantum coherent state such that they surrender individual identity and behave like one quantum system, marching in step and governed by one quantum wave function. If one component is perturbed all components “feel” it and react accordingly....”

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I see the christhole ez is in full Muq mode spam blasting the board whole refusing to comment on posts destroying his spam.

Pathetic but expected.
The Dude

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Givemeliberty wrote:
I see the christhole ez is in full Muq mode spam blasting the board whole refusing to comment on posts destroying his spam.
Pathetic but expected.
In short he heard some fundie crank claim quantum physics proves Goddidit even though it does no such thing. But we already knew this.(shrug)

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