Has you path changed?

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Since: Jul 07

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#1
Sep 7, 2008
 
Traditonal British Witches that were around long before Gerald Gardner they have no laws, rules or creeds because they believed in personal responsibility, do what you will but be prepared for the consequences. This means that a witch may choose to cast spells on other people if they are prepared to deal with the fallout of that action and they would certainly not have kept a Book of Shadows, spells and potions would have been memorised for fear of someone finding out their secrets and being lynched.

My path two years ago was the path of a Wiccan and I am grateful to Mr Gardener for showing me the way, but i found that path to be going away from what a traditional Witch is and if someone doesn't point out just how different Wicca is from the 'Old Craft' then it may be lost forever, I dont think this is what Gardner intended at all, ole dorothy Clutterbuck or the Pendle Hill witches would not be impressed with how people percieve Witchcraft now, I guess what im trying to say is not all Witches are Wiccan, and not all of us abide by the Wiccan Rede.

And whilst over the centuries some of the Romany beliefs and traditions have almost disapeared , my ancestors are making sure that there are some I hold dear and they mingle very nicely with the Witch in me..i believe in:-
the existence of bibaxt (bad luck) and of muló(supernatural spirits or ghosts).
the power of good luck charms, amulets and talismans
the power of curses
the power of healing rituals

But more importantly, i believe in the power of love and that good ALWAYS conquers evil.

Thankyou for letting me share that with you, Kushti baxt ta Cam, Kethry.x

Since: Jul 07

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#2
Sep 7, 2008
 
Looking back on the past two years I have found that so much of my path has changed, I updated my journey on the Witches forum recently and thought I would come and share it with you, some of you may be in the same situation now, following the Pagan Path as Wiccan and having wonderful relationships with the Lord and Lady as I did and some of you may be wondering why you dont quite fit into the Wiccan catagory, for me personally I had to define my path and write it down in the hope that it makes sense and others out there may want to preserve 'Th Old Craft' as I do.

My path is built on the foundations of the Craft of the Wise (Witchcraft) And because it is a path of individual spiritual growth I can adapt my faith to suit my needs, for me it is purely a Path of self discovery, teaching me qualities such as love and respect for nature, mankind and honouring those that have passed to the spirit world.

No need to mention Wiccan Redes or creeds, I dont feel I need to bring anything Wiccan into my path now, it has served a purpose, Wicca gave me a basis, an outline, gave me some idea of what a Witch is, i am grateful that so much about Wicca is on the net, without it I would be none the wiser about the Kind of Witch I now am.

I dont feel i need to celebrate the Sabbats, I dont beat myself up if skip one, last year I was holding full blown rituals and dressed my altar accordingly with fruits and berries and corndolls and phallic symbols etc but now i simply cast my circle, call my elements and light my candles, my altar is now a place for me to contemplate when i cannot get into the open air to do it, no lord or lady here anymore for me, my altar is directly under the moonlight during the night and under the sunlight during the day, my three candles now just represent the Sun, Moon and Spirit.

Full Moons are still important to me, I am more likely to do spells and blessings during this time and i enjoy standing naked in the Moonlight. but when I draw down the moon i am drawing the moons energy into myself...The Moon no longer represents the Goddess, I have no Goddess and i most definately have no God, The reason for this i will try to explain.

In my eyes Witchcraft is just that, The Craft of a Witch, simply a wise woman that worked with the resources that nature gave to her, plants, herbs, minerals, she needed the elements to grow, wash and mix these ingredients and she did so in the dark of night so people would not see her work her magik, she would jump in corn fields on a besom to make the farmers corn grow and she would call on the spirit of the dead to aid her in here work and the food that she cooked would be healthy foods with herbs to keep her family and neighbours strong and her drinks would be full of natural vitamins to keep illnesses at bay and now an again she would be called upon to help the sick or even aid a pregnant woman during labour, but mostly she kept herself to herself, prefering her own company much of the time.

Witchcraft is NOT a religion, for something to be classed as a religion here in Britain there has to be deity worship involved,'The Old Craft' has no mention of deity worship, you do not have to believe, pray, honor any deity to be a Witch, and even Christians can be Witches.

The belief of Karma or the Three-Fold Law does not exist in the Old Religion, a Wiccan concept put about by Gerald Gardner and he most likely gained this information from the Golden Dawn, even ceremonial magick in Wicca has DNA from the Golden Dawn,

“What?????????”

Since: Dec 07

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#3
Sep 7, 2008
 

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Thanks for sharing that Kerry. I feel my path very closely parallels yours. It's a good idea to write things down... helps keep everything straight in your head. I think that God and Goddess worship is just symbolic of what you said... a closeness and respect of the forces of nature. That doesn't mean that there is a Goddess hovering over your alter when you do your rituals. There are positive and negative forces constantly opposing each other. God Goddess worship helps us align ourselves with the positive. I do believe in the 3 fold rule, however I don't necessarily believe that it's always in multiples of 3. Also, I believe that karma comes from within, so if you truly believe your actions are justified, your karma won't suffer from them.

Since: Jul 07

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#4
Sep 7, 2008
 
Some very good points for me to consider there Andromedust thankyou, it is also the first time I have heard you really speak of what you believe. Blessings as always. xxxx

“NM Desert Rat”

Since: Mar 08

Elephant Butte, N.M.

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#5
Sep 7, 2008
 
Very interesting posts Kethry and Andromedust. Thank you for sharing. I have been Pagan for many years. My path is constantly changing. At one time I considered my path Wiccan but have not felt this in many years. In the early days of my path I studied the old timers like Gardner, Alexander, Farrar, Crowley, Patricia Crowley and Doreen Valiente. Later much of Scott Cunningham's works.

I haven't celebrated a ritual for the sabbats or esbats in a very long time. However being Pagan is a way of life for me and not a religion. I am Pagan because I am entwined with the cycles of nature and the cycles of the moon. I honor deity, only with my path it is Grandfather and Grandmother being my menotors were Native American. I very seldom spell cast but am very aware of the power that is among us and know how to use it. I don't follow the rede or the rule of three but do believe what you put out does come back only not three fold.

Since: Jul 07

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#6
Sep 7, 2008
 
NM Desert Rat wrote:
Very interesting posts Kethry and Andromedust. Thank you for sharing. I have been Pagan for many years. My path is constantly changing. At one time I considered my path Wiccan but have not felt this in many years. In the early days of my path I studied the old timers like Gardner, Alexander, Farrar, Crowley, Patricia Crowley and Doreen Valiente. Later much of Scott Cunningham's works.
I haven't celebrated a ritual for the sabbats or esbats in a very long time. However being Pagan is a way of life for me and not a religion. I am Pagan because I am entwined with the cycles of nature and the cycles of the moon. I honor deity, only with my path it is Grandfather and Grandmother being my menotors were Native American. I very seldom spell cast but am very aware of the power that is among us and know how to use it. I don't follow the rede or the rule of three but do believe what you put out does come back only not three fold.
Seems I am not alone after all, and it has been good to talk about the changes and hearing about you path to, thankyou, im glad we could share this. Blessings and love.xx

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

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#7
Sep 8, 2008
 
Yes, and no. I think the more people truly on a quest to dig down to the roots of Wicca (re: Gardner and his influences) the more you get beyond the politics and down to the essence of Witchcraft. I think that is evolving, more so then a change of direction.

Even from the UK to America there are differences in Gardnerianism and how the perceived rules, guidelines, and structure are applied.

Since: Jul 07

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#8
Sep 8, 2008
 
CShine wrote:
Even from the UK to America there are differences in Gardnerianism and how the perceived rules, guidelines, and structure are applied.
I totally agree with that statement, it seems that the world has gone Wicca mad and in doing so are missing the importantance of Both Wicca and Witchcraft.

I believe the two are seperate, Wicca being a religion and Witchcraft being the craft that Wiccans and Tradional Witches practice, therefore is it so wrong to want to keep the two very separate?

Since: Jul 07

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#9
Sep 8, 2008
 
CShine wrote:
Yes, and no. I think the more people truly on a quest to dig down to the roots of Wicca (re: Gardner and his influences) the more you get beyond the politics and down to the essence of Witchcraft.
I dug down deep and found Ole Dorothy Clutterbuck, I also found she had no connecting to the Golden dawn, I think that is my problem, whilst I have every respect for Gardner I read about his connection to the Golden dawn in every article I read lately, i am now afraid to dig any deeper for fear of what i might find. So I stopped at Ole Dorothy and then continued my research into the Witches of Pendle hill, maybe I should dig some more..and forget the politics and the arguments of where some say Gardner got his ideas and beliefs from. Thankyou Shine, i will be looking into it further.x

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

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#10
Sep 8, 2008
 

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No, I don't think it is wrong to want that at all. But the fact that so many people are looking into Wicca and other similar paths speaks to the need that people have in this modern world for something sacred, connected, and empowering. It is a delicate path to walk along- to keep open to (but not dilluted by) the evolving spiritual world around us, and hold the essence of Witchcraft treasured, and to keep it relevant and in use.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

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#11
Sep 8, 2008
 
Kethry wrote:
<quoted text>
I dug down deep and found Ole Dorothy Clutterbuck, I also found she had no connecting to the Golden dawn, I think that is my problem, whilst I have every respect for Gardner I read about his connection to the Golden dawn in every article I read lately, i am now afraid to dig any deeper for fear of what i might find. So I stopped at Ole Dorothy and then continued my research into the Witches of Pendle hill, maybe I should dig some more..and forget the politics and the arguments of where some say Gardner got his ideas and beliefs from. Thankyou Shine, i will be looking into it further.x
Yeah, Dorothy and/or the New Forest Coven before Gardner came along would've not had those overtones, or at least not so much as now. If you are looking into digging deeper on the ceremonial-alchemical magic/k side I can suggest:

The Keys of Soloman
The Three Books of Occult Philosophy by Agrippa (they can be found printed together); and
stuff on Hermetics- other's probably know the best books on this better then me, it ranges from modern very readable stuff, to ancient ~ of unknown origins, like the Emerald Tablets.

Some of this you can probably find on the sacred texts website for free. Yay, free.
albion

Lechlade, UK

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#12
Sep 8, 2008
 
Kethry wrote:
<quoted text>
I dug down deep and found Ole Dorothy Clutterbuck, I also found she had no connecting to the Golden dawn, I think that is my problem, whilst I have every respect for Gardner I read about his connection to the Golden dawn in every article I read lately, i am now afraid to dig any deeper for fear of what i might find. So I stopped at Ole Dorothy and then continued my research into the Witches of Pendle hill, maybe I should dig some more..and forget the politics and the arguments of where some say Gardner got his ideas and beliefs from. Thankyou Shine, i will be looking into it further.x
I live near Pendle, it is a very atmospheric place. There are many of us Wiccans in the area, both covens and solitaries, they are some of the nicest people you could wish to meet and very accepting of each others point of view. With reference to the Golden Dawn, it flourished originally when Pagan ways of life were kept very much under cover, and for all its many faults was responsible for creating awareness of such practices, so while it floundered many pagan ways came back into prominence, and now we have a situation where people are able to openly declare what they are and what their opinions are. The path is a very broad one, but the sense of unity along the way is most heartening.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

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#13
Sep 8, 2008
 
Thank you Albion. That is very heartening. When there are some branches of Wicca here in the US that judge you by your lineage and not yourself, it does one glad to hear that in Pendle :)

Shine
LiLi LaVeau

Knoxville, TN

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#14
Sep 8, 2008
 
I do not think I would say my path has changed so much as it has "deepened". My path is a family tradition path so it doesn't change tremendously through time....we do add things to our "practice" and we are always creating new craftings..but the basics for us don't really ever change. For us, our path is more "the science" of Witchcraft...in my path WitchCRAFT is just that..a craft..not a religion. Religious aspects can be incorporated or not depending upon the practitioner's preference and desires; but it is not in any way "mandatory". Also, we can incoporate any and all religions if we so desire....or we can be any religion, or no religion, and still follow/practice the family tradition. My secondary path, the path of my "adoptive" family, DOES have religious aspects.

Since: Jul 07

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#15
Sep 8, 2008
 
albion wrote:
<quoted text>I live near Pendle, it is a very atmospheric place. There are many of us Wiccans in the area, both covens and solitaries, they are some of the nicest people you could wish to meet and very accepting of each others point of view. With reference to the Golden Dawn, it flourished originally when Pagan ways of life were kept very much under cover, and for all its many faults was responsible for creating awareness of such practices, so while it floundered many pagan ways came back into prominence, and now we have a situation where people are able to openly declare what they are and what their opinions are. The path is a very broad one, but the sense of unity along the way is most heartening.
OHHHHHH Albion, how i would love to walk those hills with you.

And can I thankyou for pointing out why I shouldnt be so hard on Golden Dawn, you are right, it did Paganism and us Witches a favour by being alittle more OUT than most. So for that I will be thankful.

Since: Jul 07

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#16
Sep 8, 2008
 
CShine wrote:
It is a delicate path to walk along- to keep open to (but not dilluted by) the evolving spiritual world around us, and hold the essence of Witchcraft treasured, and to keep it relevant and in use.
That small paragraph right there that you wrote.... is probably the most beautiful comment I have ever read here, it truly touched my heart and i shall say no more, your comment has said it all.xx

Since: Jul 07

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#17
Sep 8, 2008
 
LiLi LaVeau wrote:
I do not think I would say my path has changed so much as it has "deepened". My path is a family tradition path so it doesn't change tremendously through time....we do add things to our "practice" and we are always creating new craftings..but the basics for us don't really ever change. For us, our path is more "the science" of Witchcraft...in my path WitchCRAFT is just that..a craft..not a religion. Religious aspects can be incorporated or not depending upon the practitioner's preference and desires; but it is not in any way "mandatory". Also, we can incoporate any and all religions if we so desire....or we can be any religion, or no religion, and still follow/practice the family tradition. My secondary path, the path of my "adoptive" family, DOES have religious aspects.
My hope is that my path to becomes a family tradition , i guess it has to start somewhere and I feel just as you do.

why do some put it so much easier than my silly two page essay? >cackle<
Interested

AOL

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#18
Sep 8, 2008
 

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Your path should have changed...because you plain down, as deep as it gets, hurt me. I suppose I should have expected it. It isn't like hurting those around you is new to you. But I got to tell you, this did indeed hurt and left me pondering why broken glass dosen't bother you.

Hell it is only on the floor and it is only here with barefeet (Add a sick British Laugh).

I was a fool, thought you were more then you are. I will never again make that mistake twice.

You hurt me deep down, right down there with toil and danger, but i learned and now I know your title, and will whisper it as i leave

"fishwife."

Since: Jul 07

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#19
Sep 9, 2008
 
Interested wrote:
Your path should have changed...because you plain down, as deep as it gets, hurt me. I suppose I should have expected it. It isn't like hurting those around you is new to you. But I got to tell you, this did indeed hurt and left me pondering why broken glass dosen't bother you.
Hell it is only on the floor and it is only here with barefeet (Add a sick British Laugh).
I was a fool, thought you were more then you are. I will never again make that mistake twice.
You hurt me deep down, right down there with toil and danger, but i learned and now I know your title, and will whisper it as i leave
"fishwife."
My path changed Anton because tradition is important to me, but I am done with following and embracing everyone elses traditions and feel its time to remember who my own ancestors were.

My ancestors would not have had to answer to any redes, creeds or karma no more than yours would have, Wicca restricted me, now i am free and I will do as I please with the guidance of my ancestors.

As for hurting you, for that I am sorry but you hurt me to and we cannot take back what is done, as you said 'nothing in the universe can stop this now' so what will be will be. No more fights on here Anton, this is the last time I comment to you on here and that is a gypsy promise that I cannot break. But you deserved to know that I did not enjoy hurting you no more than I enjoyed being hurt by you, I loved you, there is nothing more to say. X

“living is learning”

Since: Sep 07

Nanaimo BC

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#20
Sep 9, 2008
 
My path is constantly evolving. I do not consider myself Wiccan, although reading about Wicca as a teenager is a big part of how I found my path. I have no familial teaching, so I try to learn about the beliefs that are a part of my ancestry (celtic). I also enjoy learning about West Coast Native beliefs, as this is where I live, as my family has for 5-6 generations. I suppose blending the two cultures and spiritual practices is my own form of druidism, as I work all my magick very connected to the land I am standing on. I live under the moon. I feel her ebb and flow each day and the Moon is personified for me. I call on her under many names, depending on the season, phase, etc. as a way of sharpening my view and focusing my energy on my intent. I am an animist, and I feel closer to Goddess when I am outdoors, because at times everything vibrates and you can feel how real the magick is. The moon is where I am able to connect to divine, to the universe. The Moon and the Sea speak to me. My practices change with every moon. The only thing that remains constant is that I watch the sky and keep in mind all astrological events taking place, and I observe the Sabbats in my own way. I follow no rules or creed but my own conscious.

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