Witch School 1st Degree

May 29, 2008 Full story: ritualmagick.co.uk 21
by Rev. Donald Lewis-Highcorrell

I was pleased to be asked to review this book as I have heard some ferocious debates about the subject of Witch School and the Correllian tradition, and prefer to make my own mind up based on the evidence ...

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Writing in Paradise

Waipahu, HI

#1 May 31, 2008
Correllian style? Is that when Han Solo puts on a robe and chants?

Since: Jan 08

Mestre, Venezia - Italy

#2 Jun 1, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
Correllian style? Is that when Han Solo puts on a robe and chants?
Very amusing, writing in paradisease...
Writing in Paradise

Waipahu, HI

#3 Jun 1, 2008
WiccaNews wrote:
<quoted text>Very amusing, writing in paradisease...
Does wicca teach you to call people names?

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#4 Jun 1, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
Does wicca teach you to call people names?
It doesn't have anything to say on the subject.
Writing in Paradise

Waipahu, HI

#5 Jun 1, 2008
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesn't have anything to say on the subject.
I disagree.

An it harm none, do as ye will.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#6 Jun 1, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree.
An it harm none, do as ye will.
Guildlines for living, which don't tell us what not to do, but tell us to completely think things through before doing them. It in no way is a law, commandment, whatever. And it most certainly doesn't tell us that we can't call someone names.

See, this is your mistake, thinking that these things are dogma, when they are not.
Writing in Paradise

Waipahu, HI

#7 Jun 1, 2008
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Guildlines for living, which don't tell us what not to do, but tell us to completely think things through before doing them. It in no way is a law, commandment, whatever. And it most certainly doesn't tell us that we can't call someone names.
See, this is your mistake, thinking that these things are dogma, when they are not.
This is a straw man. I didn't say wicca said you couldn't call people names. I asked if calling people names was encouraged.

It is not. It's discouraged, under the wiccan rede.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#8 Jun 1, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a straw man. I didn't say wicca said you couldn't call people names. I asked if calling people names was encouraged.
It is not. It's discouraged, under the wiccan rede.
No, actually you asked if Wicca teaches us to call names. As for the Rede, it neither encourages it, nor discourages it. As I said originally, it does say anything about it at all. It is not a strawman argument to say that the Rede is not dogma, but a guideline. And it is correct to say that if one has thought out the possible consequences of one's action, and decides that the name calling does the least amount of harm, there is nothing to say that it shouldn't be done. Or that it should. Again, your mistake is in thinking of these things as dogma, as you have to do if you are attempting to prove that Wicca is a dogmatic as Christianity. But, they are not dogma.
Writing in Paradise

Waipahu, HI

#9 Jun 1, 2008
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
No, actually you asked if Wicca teaches us to call names. As for the Rede, it neither encourages it, nor discourages it. As I said originally, it does say anything about it at all.
This contradicts
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not a strawman argument to say that the Rede is not dogma, but a guideline.
This. A guideline encourages or discourages by definition.
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
And it is correct to say that if one has thought out the possible consequences of one's action, and decides that the name calling does the least amount of harm, there is nothing to say that it shouldn't be done. Or that it should. Again, your mistake is in thinking of these things as dogma, as you have to do if you are attempting to prove that Wicca is a dogmatic as Christianity. But, they are not dogma.
No, actually I'm showing that he wasn't acting like a proper wiccan. You're judging me with preconceived notions.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#10 Jun 1, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
This contradicts
<quoted text>
This. A guideline encourages or discourages by definition.
<quoted text>
No, actually I'm showing that he wasn't acting like a proper wiccan. You're judging me with preconceived notions.
No it doesn't contradict, because what the Rede encourages is thinking about your actions, not judging which is right and which is wrong. It does not deal with specific action. So, your assertion that the poster was not acting like a proper Wiccan by calling you a name, is incorrect. As far as judging you, have you not made the statement that Wiccans are just as dogmatic as Christians?
Writing in Paradise

Waipahu, HI

#11 Jun 1, 2008
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
No it doesn't contradict, because what the Rede encourages is thinking about your actions, not judging which is right and which is wrong. It does not deal with specific action.
This is just semantic dancing and you know it. The rede doesn't need to mention name-calling specifically in order to encompass that sort of action.
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
So, your assertion that the poster was not acting like a proper Wiccan by calling you a name, is incorrect.
So it's your assertion that calling people names is perfectly acceptable behavior in your religion. Silly to think wiccans actually lecture other people on morals with a belief system like that...
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
As far as judging you, have you not made the statement that Wiccans are just as dogmatic as Christians?
No. Such a statement would be ridiculous, since different wiccans have differing levels of dogma, as do christians.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#12 Jun 1, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
This is just semantic dancing and you know it. The rede doesn't need to mention name-calling specifically in order to encompass that sort of action.
<quoted text>
So it's your assertion that calling people names is perfectly acceptable behavior in your religion. Silly to think wiccans actually lecture other people on morals with a belief system like that...
<quoted text>
No. Such a statement would be ridiculous, since different wiccans have differing levels of dogma, as do christians.
The Rede does not judge actions, that is the point I am making. It encourages one to think things through BEFORE acting, and does not say which actions to take or not to take. I am saying that the Rede is neutral on the subject of name calling. Again, guidelines are not dogma.

Hmmmm....well I do believe you have said something similar. I'll try to find it.
Writing in Paradise

Waipahu, HI

#13 Jun 1, 2008
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
The Rede does not judge actions, that is the point I am making. It encourages one to think things through BEFORE acting, and does not say which actions to take or not to take. I am saying that the Rede is neutral on the subject of name calling. Again, guidelines are not dogma.
While the rede itself may be neutral, using it in practice is not. It's meant to discourage harmful actions and encourage helpful ones. Name-calling is a harmful action.
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmmmm....well I do believe you have said something similar. I'll try to find it.
What you'll likely find is that I've said wiccans can be as dogmatic as christians. I'll stand by that statement.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#14 Jun 1, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
While the rede itself may be neutral, using it in practice is not. It's meant to discourage harmful actions and encourage helpful ones. Name-calling is a harmful action.
<quoted text>
What you'll likely find is that I've said wiccans can be as dogmatic as christians. I'll stand by that statement.
No. The Rede encourages you to think about all the possible consequences of any action. It makes no judgement on what actions are harmful or not. Your posts indicate that you are looking at it as though it's almost the same as the 10 commandments, and it's not. It is not dogma, it is not law, it places no value on actions themselves.

Perhaps that statement was the one I remembered. It's been months, so I could be remembering incorrectly. As for your statement here, I suppose it depends on how you are defining 'dogmatic'. If you mean that Wiccans are as opinionated as Christians, I agree. But Wiccans do not put forth religious dogma, because Wicca has no such dogma.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#15 Jun 10, 2008
I have not read the published version, but I came by probably the same material in a workbook. A woman I knew I had contacted a Correllian priest from witchvox and met with him and declined to go further. She left the teaching materials he gave her with me.

I didn't find any use in them except ahhh, awareness of what & how these people were teaching and passed the workbook on again to another Wiccan priestess for similar reasons.

So, based on the workbook I had, I agree most especially with the first book reviewer. The workbook felt like third grade teaching materials. There was a lot of emphasis on learning who was who in their tradition. Subjects were choppy and presented as having little or no relation to each other. The idea of a basic system or framework to think critically from was substituted for blanket memorization. Other then that, yes, like the first reviewer found, I too found some really odd tidbits or ideas passed off as the "Wiccan way" by this tradition.

Even elementary education is moving away from that style of cut & paste & memorization learning these days.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#16 Jun 10, 2008
PS- Those are not "sigils". Want to know about sigils? Read Grant Morrison. Well, there is more scholarly stuff on sigils then the comic book writer, but, I like his take on it. heh heh.

“Just a Koldunia”

Since: Jan 08

Kostroma

#17 Jun 10, 2008
CShine wrote:
PS- Those are not "sigils". Want to know about sigils? Read Grant Morrison. Well, there is more scholarly stuff on sigils then the comic book writer, but, I like his take on it. heh heh.
Help me out here? I am slow and borderline retarded. Where was the mention of "sigils"?

Nevertheless, as I understand "sigils" they are traversed and lined from numerical values. Is it, or are they done differently in Wicca?

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#18 Jun 10, 2008
har- you are neither.

Sigils could be numerical, but the commonest ones are alpha. Could use any alphabet/cypher, including this one, the Latin alphabet.

One would write out their desire, like, "Cheap fare to Mexico". Then take out all the repeating letters:

CHEAPFRTOMXI

Then, you give yourself a little square of paper to work on (well actually maybe a big square to start over with, if needed). Starting with the C, you write each letter over itself, not repeating any lines or curves until you have a condensed down symbol. You can insert letters upside down or sideways to get it all in a little boxy/or roundish glyph-like one-symbol size.

You charge it (using pretty much any energy raising method) with all your will for the stated desire. Then let it go.

There are variations, and people can be more elaborate. Some make their names into sigils, etc. But that is it in a nutshell. One guy I know has quite a knack for them. He likes to draw them henna style on himself and other people.

Someone posted this link on the book review:

http://www.correllian.com/symbolsandrobes.htm

One or two of those could have been sigils, but the rest are just common Craft symbols.

This is the link to Grant Morrison (towards bottom under Sigil heading):

http://www.grant-morrison.com/pop_magic_part_...

“Just a Koldunia”

Since: Jan 08

Kostroma

#19 Jun 10, 2008
CShine wrote:
har- you are neither.
Sigils could be numerical, but the commonest ones are alpha. Could use any alphabet/cypher, including this one, the Latin alphabet.
One would write out their desire, like, "Cheap fare to Mexico". Then take out all the repeating letters:
CHEAPFRTOMXI
Then, you give yourself a little square of paper to work on (well actually maybe a big square to start over with, if needed). Starting with the C, you write each letter over itself, not repeating any lines or curves until you have a condensed down symbol. You can insert letters upside down or sideways to get it all in a little boxy/or roundish glyph-like one-symbol size.
You charge it (using pretty much any energy raising method) with all your will for the stated desire. Then let it go.
There are variations, and people can be more elaborate. Some make their names into sigils, etc. But that is it in a nutshell. One guy I know has quite a knack for them. He likes to draw them henna style on himself and other people.
Someone posted this link on the book review:
http://www.correllian.com/symbolsandrobes.htm
One or two of those could have been sigils, but the rest are just common Craft symbols.
This is the link to Grant Morrison (towards bottom under Sigil heading):
http://www.grant-morrison.com/pop_magic_part_...
Well this is a door thrown open for me. I have always reduced the alphabet to numbers. Being the lazy soul I am I always used the "dyev-yet" (Russian word for nine) which is nine squares within a square, each square with the two surrounding squares adding to 15 in any direction.

it would look like this:

4 9 2
3 5 7
8 1 6

I would then draw the disire having reduced the alphabet to numbers, a letter at a time, then place each letter over the other.

I have also been taught to consider date and time of the desire to expand the dyev-yet, if need be all the way up to a "pyat tik-syaheh" a square that adds to 5000, I can do it, but laziness takes me to reducing.

How are alphabets laid out?

“Just a Koldunia”

Since: Jan 08

Kostroma

#20 Jun 10, 2008
If I wanted a ticket to Mexico I would take the word Mexico from the alphabet of the country I was in, reduce it to numbers, transcribe it on the dyev-yet to create the sigil, then sandwhich it between the 8 of wands, and the 6 of swords. I would then fold the High Preistess card around it all and carry it with me till the ticket arrived.

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