Heather

UK

#21 Feb 13, 2010
NM Desert Rat wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting post. How about adding more on this topic? I would like to hear your argument.
I believe it varies massively from person to person, but then again... so does Christianity and the Pagan faith. If a person has been raised a Christian and loves their faith or they've been inspired by the teachings of Christ, then nothing is to stop them from still finding a spiritual bond between a Pagan path, even if they don't label themself as any particular faith. I think there is a lot to be said in many people being born Pagans at heart. However, if they have enough involvement in each path in their daily and social lives, nothing is to stop them assuming both walks of life, or rather, a single walk woven together. Not woven for comfort, but in pursuit of truth. In addition, there are Christians who don't accept the entire Bible as true and only see the New Testiment as having any insight into the divine. Then there are those who don't even regard the teachings of Paul and only what is laid out by the Acts as direct teachings from Christ, merely because of personal belief and knowledge. Some just don't believe that faith is so black and white, that it's so exclusive or that they're so different from each other in the first place in regard to the spiritual and social.

“A different view”

Since: Sep 08

West Riding

#22 Feb 13, 2010
Heather wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe it varies massively from person to person, but then again... so does Christianity and the Pagan faith. If a person has been raised a Christian and loves their faith or they've been inspired by the teachings of Christ, then nothing is to stop them from still finding a spiritual bond between a Pagan path, even if they don't label themself as any particular faith. I think there is a lot to be said in many people being born Pagans at heart. However, if they have enough involvement in each path in their daily and social lives, nothing is to stop them assuming both walks of life, or rather, a single walk woven together. Not woven for comfort, but in pursuit of truth. In addition, there are Christians who don't accept the entire Bible as true and only see the New Testiment as having any insight into the divine. Then there are those who don't even regard the teachings of Paul and only what is laid out by the Acts as direct teachings from Christ, merely because of personal belief and knowledge. Some just don't believe that faith is so black and white, that it's so exclusive or that they're so different from each other in the first place in regard to the spiritual and social.
Much of what you mention is down to individual interpretation, I have advocated for years that people can pick what they like from any number of beliefs and mix their choices to suit themselves.
The difficulty for me has always been to put an accurate title to the newly acquired mix. I dont think anyone who doesnt believe in the almighty creator can really claim the title of Christian/Pagan as some here do, I usually describe myself (if asked) as evolving.
I tend to think of the countryside and everything in it (animals, plants, sun, moon, myself and indeed everyone else) as equal partners who can all help each other both spiritually and practically, I think we humans are like the ringmasters and are responsible for putting right the wrongs that the other "partners" cant.
There have been many debates like this one and they have been a good way for people to express their beliefs without having to come to any sort of agreement or conclusion.
It will be interesting to see DRs take on this, sorry for jumping in.

“NM Desert Rat”

Since: Mar 08

Elephant Butte, N.M.

#23 Feb 13, 2010
Thank you Heather and Albion. Both of your posts are very interesting. Hopefully some more will jump in on this topic. Personally I believe beliefs are for each of us to pick and choose what works. My parents were Christian my grandparents weren't. I was exposed to both. Later in life I was blessed with two Native American mentors. I really don't care much for titles but I consider myself to be a Pagan because it is such a broad definition and like Albion I'm still evolving and have been for over 40 years. I agree about us being partners in the environment that surrounds us. I live in the desert. For me the desert is a very powerful and magical place once you understand her rhythms. Others connect in the same manner in the environment that they are in. After reading this I've rambled on a bunch hopefully this makes some sense.
Silent Whispers

Carrickmacross, Ireland

#24 Feb 13, 2010
I think Heather's views are rather interesting too. I'm off the opinion that there is much available to the discerning seeker in any religious modality, in things like signs, symbols and so forth but also in understanding the development of cultures not our own. I don't mean to be antagonistic but I can't help but notice the occasional flare of anti-monotheistic religions on this forum, which upon reflection seems to be defensive comments on the premise that a good defense is an offense. Perhaps some meditation on the role of other religions in one's personal life could help provide some help in addressing members of that religion causing conflict.

There are many spiritual seekers out there who simultaneously believe in a monotheistic presence as well as the divine as manifested through the gods. I know one group that see Jesus on par with Krishna and Amun-Re.
joX

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#25 Feb 13, 2010
adoniadabrianenet wrote:
yes they can. i was raised catholic and have checked and have studied all kinds of religions, and found that wicca makes the most since. there all kinds of names for God and if people would realize that we all worship the same God regardless of His name the wars would cease to exist. i am wiccan and God is love ineveryone and everything.
Interesting post. Its good that you have a good view about Wicca, however you missed out the most important facet about our beliefs, and that is the acknowledgement of the Goddess. We believe in a duality concept, which makes sense (i guessed you meant sense in your post!!)

I have heard from others that veneration of the Virgin Mary is close? But not very sure, as I dont know enough about it.
joX

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#26 Feb 13, 2010
adoniadabrianenet wrote:
TO THOSE THAT DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD. WELL YOU MUST NOT HAVE A BLESSED LIFE. DO YOU BELIEV IN ANYTHING? WELL ANY WAY YOU WILL KNOW WHEN YOU CROSS OVER. SORRY FOR YOU, BUT GOD WAITS FOR YOU ON THE SIDE. WHY WOULD I WANT TO BE CHRISTIAN? BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN CHRIST. THAT IS MY BELIEF ALLOWED TO HAVE IT. BLESSED BE
No-one has said you cannot have your own belief, of course you can. Just please try to not get angry and defensive about it. I joined this forum a few weeks ago, and have heard from fantastic people from all over, however on the downside, are the consistent pagan-bashing attitudes from (and I have to say it) Christians. This is a Pagan-friendly forum. For some odd reason we seem to get alot of hate mail from the extremist branch. I think that Christianity has a great deal to offer people, it is mainstream, widely acceptable and some of the later teachings are actually spot on.

I do not dislike Christians (or any other religious beliefs). I try to take people as I find them, best way to be. Im grateful to have a very blessed life actually, a wonderful family and friends support. I think about death, however none of us really know, if anything what will happen after the event. So we are all in the same boat xx

“NM Desert Rat”

Since: Mar 08

Elephant Butte, N.M.

#27 Feb 13, 2010
This site has been posted here before. It has some interesting information that is related to the topic of this thread.

Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth http://www.pocm.info/

“WOOH!!”

Since: May 08

Vallejo, CA

#28 Feb 13, 2010
joX wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting post. Its good that you have a good view about Wicca, however you missed out the most important facet about our beliefs, and that is the acknowledgement of the Goddess. We believe in a duality concept, which makes sense (i guessed you meant sense in your post!!)
I have heard from others that veneration of the Virgin Mary is close? But not very sure, as I dont know enough about it.
There's also a renewed interest in Mary Magdalene, and the theory that she was actually the wife of Jesus and gave birth to his child. This has been fueled by The DaVinci Code, but Dan Brown actually based a lot of his material on the work of Margaret Starbird.

“TOPIX EDITOR”

Since: Oct 09

NYC

#29 Feb 14, 2010
Heather wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps because they've found corrolation and bonds between the the spirituality of a Pagan faith and teachings of Christ they were either raised to believe in or were inspired by.
I believe Laurie Cabot herself mentions this in her biography.
Heather

UK

#30 Feb 17, 2010
albion wrote:
<quoted text>Much of what you mention is down to individual interpretation, I have advocated for years that people can pick what they like from any number of beliefs and mix their choices to suit themselves.
The difficulty for me has always been to put an accurate title to the newly acquired mix. I dont think anyone who doesnt believe in the almighty creator can really claim the title of Christian/Pagan as some here do, I usually describe myself (if asked) as evolving.
I tend to think of the countryside and everything in it (animals, plants, sun, moon, myself and indeed everyone else) as equal partners who can all help each other both spiritually and practically, I think we humans are like the ringmasters and are responsible for putting right the wrongs that the other "partners" cant.
There have been many debates like this one and they have been a good way for people to express their beliefs without having to come to any sort of agreement or conclusion.
It will be interesting to see DRs take on this, sorry for jumping in.
I like this idea of "evolving". It's true that I can't say I'm one or the other because my heart either isn't in one strict path, or when asked it'll be by somebody who already has their own idea of what makes a person Christian and Pagan, and so I won't feel that I've actually spoken the truth about (or give proper meaning to) what I believe if you know what I mean.
I also think the word interpretation is important. People persistantly assume that following anything other than one firm path makes a person uncommitted and merely trying to make a comfort zone for themselves. The only comfort is believing I'm evolving from truth and spiritual enlightenment.:)
I agree very much with your nature based spirituality as well. I think, regardless of the implications and differences in faith, it's the things that draw us together (in the eco-sphere as well as people) that matter the most.
Heather

UK

#31 Feb 17, 2010
NM Desert Rat wrote:
Thank you Heather and Albion. Both of your posts are very interesting. Hopefully some more will jump in on this topic. Personally I believe beliefs are for each of us to pick and choose what works. My parents were Christian my grandparents weren't. I was exposed to both. Later in life I was blessed with two Native American mentors. I really don't care much for titles but I consider myself to be a Pagan because it is such a broad definition and like Albion I'm still evolving and have been for over 40 years. I agree about us being partners in the environment that surrounds us. I live in the desert. For me the desert is a very powerful and magical place once you understand her rhythms. Others connect in the same manner in the environment that they are in. After reading this I've rambled on a bunch hopefully this makes some sense.
Thank you.:) I think albion's notion of "evolving" draws us together as well. It gives us the idea that we're all working towards the same goal in different ways and can learn from each other. What was your grandparents' faith?

“NM Desert Rat”

Since: Mar 08

Elephant Butte, N.M.

#32 Feb 17, 2010
Heather wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you.:) I think albion's notion of "evolving" draws us together as well. It gives us the idea that we're all working towards the same goal in different ways and can learn from each other. What was your grandparents' faith?
My Grandfather was Scottish and my Grandmother was Irish. Being we lived on a farm my grandparents beliefs focused around the Soltices and Equinoxes. I grew up with stories about Cernunnos, Cerridwen, Brid, the Children of Lir, Dagda, Tuatha De Dannan, Epona, Lugh, etc. I just wish I would have been wise enough to write them down. There were a couple of Bards in the family and I could listen to them for hours. Unfortunately they are all gone now. What a waste.
Heather

UK

#33 Feb 18, 2010
Silent Whispers wrote:
I think Heather's views are rather interesting too. I'm off the opinion that there is much available to the discerning seeker in any religious modality, in things like signs, symbols and so forth but also in understanding the development of cultures not our own. I don't mean to be antagonistic but I can't help but notice the occasional flare of anti-monotheistic religions on this forum, which upon reflection seems to be defensive comments on the premise that a good defense is an offense. Perhaps some meditation on the role of other religions in one's personal life could help provide some help in addressing members of that religion causing conflict.
There are many spiritual seekers out there who simultaneously believe in a monotheistic presence as well as the divine as manifested through the gods. I know one group that see Jesus on par with Krishna and Amun-Re.
Thank you.:) I know what you mean. I've heard some anti-monotheistic views, particularly against Christianity. With Christianity having so much to point the finger at, yet so much hypocrisy within its own faith I can understand people's anger particularly if they have suffered, but there is so much more to it and it's no coincidence that the things which make us grow are the things which we have in common with Pagan and all other faiths, monotheistic or not.:3
Heather

UK

#34 Feb 18, 2010
NM Desert Rat wrote:
<quoted text>
My Grandfather was Scottish and my Grandmother was Irish. Being we lived on a farm my grandparents beliefs focused around the Soltices and Equinoxes. I grew up with stories about Cernunnos, Cerridwen, Brid, the Children of Lir, Dagda, Tuatha De Dannan, Epona, Lugh, etc. I just wish I would have been wise enough to write them down. There were a couple of Bards in the family and I could listen to them for hours. Unfortunately they are all gone now. What a waste.
Interesting. That does sound really frustrating though!:P
newformula

Banbury, UK

#35 Sep 10, 2011
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

i love these verses....i wish these to all the world
newformula

Banbury, UK

#36 Sep 10, 2011
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
newformula

Banbury, UK

#37 Sep 10, 2011
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command:“Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
newformula

Banbury, UK

#38 Sep 10, 2011
Ecclesiastes 12

7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto most high who gave it.

there is no hell....nothing dies.....everything returns to it's original glory.....the most high

“Education Leads to Peace”

Since: Sep 11

Ignorance Leads to War

#39 Sep 10, 2011
Paganism is easily merged wit any number of other beleif systems. I myself was raised in a Baptist/Lutheran household. I have extensive experience in both Christianity and Islam. The biggest reason why this is so easy is because "Pagan" is a very loose term.Pagans themselves, especially of the Wiccan persuasion like myself, are open to al religions and points of view. It is this opennesss which allows us to take from another religion and merge it into our own beleifs. Just because you are Pagan does not mean you cannot beleive that the God of the bible or even Allah are indeed gods. Take my own personal point of view for example. I refer the that 'higher power' as Deity. And for ease of describing it Picture a finely cut diamond. As you rotate this diamond it will shine a little differently, maybe a different clor will be reflectd off of one facet then another. Each f the plethera of gods and goddesses throughout history is one of these facets, it al depends on how you look at Deity. How Deity is portrayed to you individualy births your definition of God.

“Education Leads to Peace”

Since: Sep 11

Ignorance Leads to War

#40 Sep 10, 2011
adoniadabrianenet wrote:
TO THOSE THAT DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD. WELL YOU MUST NOT HAVE A BLESSED LIFE. DO YOU BELIEV IN ANYTHING? WELL ANY WAY YOU WILL KNOW WHEN YOU CROSS OVER. SORRY FOR YOU, BUT GOD WAITS FOR YOU ON THE SIDE. WHY WOULD I WANT TO BE CHRISTIAN? BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN CHRIST. THAT IS MY BELIEF ALLOWED TO HAVE IT. BLESSED BE
You are indeed allowed to have it but you should also know, that generally speaking. As a pagan/wiccan we do not push our beleifs on others. If they come to us seeking to learn we teach but we do not push ourselves on others. That is one of the biggest reasons CHristianity has such a bad rap.

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