My friendly neighbourhood witches

My friendly neighbourhood witches

There are 454 comments on the entertainment.timesonline.co.uk story from Jul 7, 2008, titled My friendly neighbourhood witches . In it, entertainment.timesonline.co.uk reports that:

by Ken Russell

I was privileged to drag my Hammer-Horror fantasies into the lair of a real witch and warlock for correctional instruction Ken Russell In a heavily wooded hollow in the heart of the New Forest lies the village ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at entertainment.timesonline.co.uk.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#290 Apr 19, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for the link... I especially liked this part.
Wiccans -- who may also call themselves Witches (the capital W is meant to distance them from the word's negative connotations, because Wiccans neither worship Satan nor practice the sort of malicious magic traditionally associated with witches)
And again recognizing that there are different Witches as well as satanists that have tried to claim the word.. Oh what is that William you have no understanding of context.. Why you would be right..

Gee William you want try and be any more clueless.. LOL

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#291 Apr 19, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
I have all kinds of resources.
I am not sneering at Wicca as much as I am at some of the people who call themselves Wiccan.
DOn't misunderstand, I respect your dedication and your willingness to stand up for your beliefs.... I just don't agree with a lot of your points because IMO they are based on false history.
And as i have shown your opinion is in error.. But then you seem to want to stay wedded to this stupidity.. Why is beyond me.. Either you are a troll, a christian, or just that simply stupid.. I am not sure which. However it seems clear you really do seem to want to play the fool here..

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#292 Apr 19, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sure you did.. Riiiggghhhttt.. Aww poor you have nothing to show? No kidding huh? I put up solid links and what was your opening was what Wikipedia... William keep being a fool and I will mock you for the fool you are being here..
Ok, you have fun with that

Since: Jul 07

Location hidden

#293 Apr 19, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually he wanted the publicity. The biggest reason for Doreen and many of the members left in revolt was because Gerald was looking to keep his face and Wicca in the news.
So your saying that those closest to him didn't want it in the public eye, they didnt want it to be so wide spread? So why the heck is it? And hasn't Doreen written a few published articles herself?

and I quote

'Doreen Valiente 1922-1999
WELCOME TO THE OFFICIAL DOREEN VALIENTE WEBSITE

This site is dedicated to the memory of Doreen Valiente, the Mother of Modern Witchcraft.
Today Wicca is the fastest growing religion in the Western world and this is largely due to the prolific writing, in-depth research and personal integrity of Doreen, who gave and is still giving so much to the Craft.'

http://doreenvaliente.org/

Was Wicca supposed to be so 'out in the open'? fastest growing religion it might be but from what you have replied tells me that it was never supposed to be so openly widespread.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#294 Apr 19, 2011
Clark Griswold wrote:
<quoted text>
William, you really don't understand Witchcraft, although you do have a good grasp on the "traditional" ideas christians associate with it. Good rule of them to use when listening to a christian is... don't believe a word they tell you. The majority of the time they will lie to you and not even know it.
Not lies... historical evidence exists to support the view that witches were evil.... tons and tons of it. Just because some people 'believe' witch was something good before Christians does not wipe out centuries of VALID etymology for the word witch... you can't pretend witch never had a negative meaning just because you don't like it.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#295 Apr 19, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
And as i have shown your opinion is in error.. But then you seem to want to stay wedded to this stupidity.. Why is beyond me.. Either you are a troll, a christian, or just that simply stupid.. I am not sure which. However it seems clear you really do seem to want to play the fool here..
You only think you have shown me because that is what you want to believe.... you have produced nothing that is not wrought with opinions or wishful thinking. Show me ONE pre-Christian historical document that supports that witches were good. ONE.... one tiny little document.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#296 Apr 19, 2011
Kethry wrote:
<quoted text>
So your saying that those closest to him didn't want it in the public eye, they didnt want it to be so wide spread? So why the heck is it? And hasn't Doreen written a few published articles herself?
and I quote
'Doreen Valiente 1922-1999
WELCOME TO THE OFFICIAL DOREEN VALIENTE WEBSITE
This site is dedicated to the memory of Doreen Valiente, the Mother of Modern Witchcraft.
Today Wicca is the fastest growing religion in the Western world and this is largely due to the prolific writing, in-depth research and personal integrity of Doreen, who gave and is still giving so much to the Craft.'
http://doreenvaliente.org/
Was Wicca supposed to be so 'out in the open'? fastest growing religion it might be but from what you have replied tells me that it was never supposed to be so openly widespread.
Nope it was not supposed to be.. In Geralds books he makes it clear that Wicca was supposed to be a small group keeping the Pagan religion alive against the time when people would want to know about the Pagan religion.

What is interesting is that when Doreen met Gerald it had been after banging her head against a wall of silence. You really did have to know the right people and have money. Doreen did not at the time know many people and was middle class.

IMO after she went back to Gerald I think part of her realized that the times were changing and that perhaps it was time to change with them.

To understand just why Doreen left and took many with her. One has to understand that there really was no openness with in the community. Sure there was Madam Blavatsky, Crowley, as well as others. In all seriousness there was little really written about or discussed. Mostly sensationalized or small volumes that added up to not much of anything.

Though Crowley was changing that idea with constant willingness to publish and rub people noses in the fact that there were people that did not agree with the "mainstream".

So when Gerald started to do interviews and letting the papers photograph a ritual. It all became too much for a person that had been taught that secrecy was a strength. Again my opinion.

Now of course the idea of secrecy and keeping hidden are about over.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#297 Apr 19, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
You only think you have shown me because that is what you want to believe.... you have produced nothing that is not wrought with opinions or wishful thinking. Show me ONE pre-Christian historical document that supports that witches were good. ONE.... one tiny little document.
riighhtt.. So says the man who has claimed he was there at the beginning.. I have provided links.. You did not like a one of them.. What is that? You really want to stay wedded to being a clueless fool.. Why I think that would be about right.. What is that I really do not care about your christan bullshyt.. Why you would be right again..

Since: Jul 07

Location hidden

#298 Apr 19, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
Not lies... historical evidence exists to support the view that witches were evil.... tons and tons of it. Just because some people 'believe' witch was something good before Christians does not wipe out centuries of VALID etymology for the word witch... you can't pretend witch never had a negative meaning just because you don't like it.
I understand what you are saying about the word Witch having a negative meaning, there certainly is historical records that say Witches were evil and even today there is a place in England called Pendle Hill that is said to still be haunted with the souls of a coven of Witches that committed murder at the site. Some of the stories were false but pyschics and historians still say that evil exists there.

So ok, we have established that the word Witch carries with it a lot of negativity but shouldn't the same be said about the word Christian? Take the Crusades for example, so much blood shed and all documented in history. Another example...Christian heretics were persecuted; The most extreme case (as far as historians know) was the burning of Priscillian and six of his followers at the stake in 383, Priscillian was bishop of Ávila and a theologian from Roman Gallaecia the first person in the history of Christianity to be executed for heresy (though the civil charges were for the practice of magic).

Christianity has a lot to answer for, the name carries with it much more blood shed than the word Witch ever could.

Since: Jul 07

Location hidden

#299 Apr 19, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Now of course the idea of secrecy and keeping hidden are about over.
Which is the reason why I personally moved away from Wicca :(

Thank you for the detailed reply though, it was very helpful and it is always good to discuss others opinions :))

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#300 Apr 19, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
And again recognizing that there are different Witches as well as satanists that have tried to claim the word.. Oh what is that William you have no understanding of context.. Why you would be right..
Gee William you want try and be any more clueless.. LOL
Ohhhhhh, so now you're not saying that witches weren't evil before Christianity.... only that Wicca is reclaiming only the GOOD witches title while Satanists are claiming the bad witches title.
So once again you need some kind of prefix for witch so we know the difference... good witch, bad witch etc.
I think you don't understand context as you made no such differentiation between the two when you made claims witches were good, period. And certain denominations of Satanism (yes there are different types)have every bit as much right to use the word witch as you do. In fact, in many cases modern witchcraft has a fair bit in common with modern Satanism as far as it's moral and personal standpoint is concerned.

"Modern Satanism is a belief system that empowers the individual to be their own God, to be their own caretaker. This does not mean you cannot have a partner in life, a significant other, or a loved one. It means you take care of yourself as opposed to prayer and false hopes asked of a God or complete stranger to do it for you. You are supposed to accept your own responsibilities and be able to accept the outcome of your actions. As a Modern Satanist, you should not depend on a myth to pay for your actions. The stories that some Jesus Christ came to Earth and has paid for your sins does NOT mean you are above the laws today, and you will be held liable for any crimes committed.

As a Modern Satanist, You thank YOURSELF for all the hard work and repetition of a task to perfect it, not some man made God. You are the one who soaked many a rag with your sweat and hard labor to become what you are. You need not thank any higher power for these skills. You would want to thank family, friends, and coworkers for their support, and comforting they have provided along the way.

It is common to find a Modern Satanist who chooses not to be apart of ANY of the Orders or Organizations about and wants only individualism. Herd Mentality is something commonly found in the Christian or Catholic Church where you're made to feel as nothing without paying them your money, or having someone else in your life. Satanism per se teaches Self-ism and Individuality. Some Satanists refuse to "join" in on anything and it makes them more comfortable being "solo." Modern Satanism as a whole is NOT Anti-Christianity. Satanism is Anti-Stupidity.(some Satanists may be anti-christian, but surely not all of us.) There are Anti-Religious people in every aspect and every walk of life. Satanism per se, does not speak of opposing Christianity and destroying everything they believe in. I have always tried to spread Religious Tolerance, and the rest of the Satanic Community, for the most part, feels the exact same way.

Modern Satanism is not full of Hate and Racism. Satanism, by some, has been considered an Elitist Belief System. This is simply because as a Satanist you should always stride to better yourself. Never settling for second best, and Never think of anyone as being better than yourself. "Second Place is The First Loser". The Teachers whom we encounter in life have the knowledge to pass along, and the experience of doing it before you, this does not make then BETTER than you. There is segregation in every walk of life. It is NOT the Satanic Communities who house and support the Race oriented, Hate groups, or other Militant Factions, now is it? Yet there are militant and ignorant Satanists who feel they want to take the law into their own hands and end up harming people unnecessarily."

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#301 Apr 19, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
riighhtt.. So says the man who has claimed he was there at the beginning.. I have provided links.. You did not like a one of them.. What is that? You really want to stay wedded to being a clueless fool.. Why I think that would be about right.. What is that I really do not care about your christan bullshyt.. Why you would be right again..
Because not one of them provided proof.
Same rhetoric, same insults, but no proof yet.
Seems to be all you are capable of.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#302 Apr 19, 2011
Kethry wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand what you are saying about the word Witch having a negative meaning, there certainly is historical records that say Witches were evil and even today there is a place in England called Pendle Hill that is said to still be haunted with the souls of a coven of Witches that committed murder at the site. Some of the stories were false but pyschics and historians still say that evil exists there.
So ok, we have established that the word Witch carries with it a lot of negativity but shouldn't the same be said about the word Christian? Take the Crusades for example, so much blood shed and all documented in history. Another example...Christian heretics were persecuted; The most extreme case (as far as historians know) was the burning of Priscillian and six of his followers at the stake in 383, Priscillian was bishop of Ávila and a theologian from Roman Gallaecia the first person in the history of Christianity to be executed for heresy (though the civil charges were for the practice of magic).
Christianity has a lot to answer for, the name carries with it much more blood shed than the word Witch ever could.
No doubt... I am sure every religion has it's skeletons in the closet. But this isn't really a Wicca (witch) vs Christian issue... it is about certain groups ignoring the truth about a word simply because they don't happen to like that meaning, yet they can offer no evidence to support their claim that it ever meant anything else. I have repeatedly asked for ONE piece of historical pre-Christian documentation that supports the claim witches were once good. None has been offered yet. I have been given links that repeat the same theories and biased opinions, but no real evidence. And since that evidence doesn't exist, certain people get all cranky because I won't take their unsubstantiated claims based on opinion at face value.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#303 Apr 19, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
riighhtt.. So says the man who has claimed he was there at the beginning.
I already told you that it would be foolish to think I implied a time prior to when I would logically be able to participate in the neo-pagan movement. But it would take intelligence and a willingness to understand that fact to grasp it, neither of which seems to be a quality you possess. Instead you would rather grasp at straws and utter insults thinking somehow they make you look more intelligent, or that you are winning the debate, when in fact you haven't added anything new in your last dozen posts. Still the same old rhetoric.

“A witty saying proves nothing”

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#304 Apr 19, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
Not lies... historical evidence exists to support the view that witches were evil.... tons and tons of it. Just because some people 'believe' witch was something good before Christians does not wipe out centuries of VALID etymology for the word witch... you can't pretend witch never had a negative meaning just because you don't like it.
I'm not pretending anything. The word Witch was given a bad name by christianity. WTF is it with you anyway? You're totally obsessed with this. You're like Javy with his lightnings.

“A witty saying proves nothing”

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#305 Apr 19, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
Ohhhhhh, so now you're not saying that witches weren't evil before Christianity.... only that Wicca is reclaiming only the GOOD witches title while Satanists are claiming the bad witches title.
So once again you need some kind of prefix for witch so we know the difference... good witch, bad witch etc.
I think you don't understand context as you made no such differentiation between the two when you made claims witches were good, period. And certain denominations of Satanism (yes there are different types)have every bit as much right to use the word witch as you do. In fact, in many cases modern witchcraft has a fair bit in common with modern Satanism as far as it's moral and personal standpoint is concerned.
"Modern Satanism is a belief system that empowers the individual to be their own God, to be their own caretaker. This does not mean you cannot have a partner in life, a significant other, or a loved one. It means you take care of yourself as opposed to prayer and false hopes asked of a God or complete stranger to do it for you. You are supposed to accept your own responsibilities and be able to accept the outcome of your actions. As a Modern Satanist, you should not depend on a myth to pay for your actions. The stories that some Jesus Christ came to Earth and has paid for your sins does NOT mean you are above the laws today, and you will be held liable for any crimes committed.
As a Modern Satanist, You thank YOURSELF for all the hard work and repetition of a task to perfect it, not some man made God. You are the one who soaked many a rag with your sweat and hard labor to become what you are. You need not thank any higher power for these skills. You would want to thank family, friends, and coworkers for their support, and comforting they have provided along the way.
It is common to find a Modern Satanist who chooses not to be apart of ANY of the Orders or Organizations about and wants only individualism. Herd Mentality is something commonly found in the Christian or Catholic Church where you're made to feel as nothing without paying them your money, or having someone else in your life. Satanism per se teaches Self-ism and Individuality. Some Satanists refuse to "join" in on anything and it makes them more comfortable being "solo." Modern Satanism as a whole is NOT Anti-Christianity. Satanism is Anti-Stupidity.(some Satanists may be anti-christian, but surely not all of us.) There are Anti-Religious people in every aspect and every walk of life. Satanism per se, does not speak of opposing Christianity and destroying everything they believe in. I have always tried to spread Religious Tolerance, and the rest of the Satanic Community, for the most part, feels the exact same way.
Modern Satanism is not full of Hate and Racism. Satanism, by some, has been considered an Elitist Belief System. This is simply because as a Satanist you should always stride to better yourself. Never settling for second best, and Never think of anyone as being better than yourself. "Second Place is The First Loser". The Teachers whom we encounter in life have the knowledge to pass along, and the experience of doing it before you, this does not make then BETTER than you. There is segregation in every walk of life. It is NOT the Satanic Communities who house and support the Race oriented, Hate groups, or other Militant Factions, now is it? Yet there are militant and ignorant Satanists who feel they want to take the law into their own hands and end up harming people unnecessarily."
Saying Witches were evil is like saying plumbers were evil. I'm sure there were many evil plumbers throughout history.

“A witty saying proves nothing”

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#306 Apr 19, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
No doubt... I am sure every religion has it's skeletons in the closet. But this isn't really a Wicca (witch) vs Christian issue... it is about certain groups ignoring the truth about a word simply because they don't happen to like that meaning, yet they can offer no evidence to support their claim that it ever meant anything else. I have repeatedly asked for ONE piece of historical pre-Christian documentation that supports the claim witches were once good. None has been offered yet. I have been given links that repeat the same theories and biased opinions, but no real evidence. And since that evidence doesn't exist, certain people get all cranky because I won't take their unsubstantiated claims based on opinion at face value.
Again, your hyper focus on this point is in question. If you were to get everyone here to admit that Witches were once all pure evil, would that really make your day? Would you stand on your roof and sing praises or something?

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#307 Apr 19, 2011
Clark Griswold wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not pretending anything. The word Witch was given a bad name by christianity. WTF is it with you anyway? You're totally obsessed with this. You're like Javy with his lightnings.
I'm not contesting Christianity added to the negativity, but I want to see proof of the fact it wasn't negative before Christianity, which is what everybody seems to be claiming.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#308 Apr 19, 2011
Clark Griswold wrote:
<quoted text>
Saying Witches were evil is like saying plumbers were evil. I'm sure there were many evil plumbers throughout history.
Lawyers would have made a better point.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#309 Apr 19, 2011
Clark Griswold wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, your hyper focus on this point is in question. If you were to get everyone here to admit that Witches were once all pure evil, would that really make your day? Would you stand on your roof and sing praises or something?
Praises to who?
And my focus on them being evil is no more intent than others trying to say they weren't. There is evidence to support they were... I would like to see some to prove they were not. Not a huge request in light of all the claims. Historically, witches were evil... I have heard claims that Christians are all to blame and before Christianity they were good. Proof please.

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