My friendly neighbourhood witches

by Ken Russell

I was privileged to drag my Hammer-Horror fantasies into the lair of a real witch and warlock for correctional instruction Ken Russell In a heavily wooded hollow in the heart of the New Forest lies the village ...

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Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#189 Apr 16, 2011
Clark Griswold wrote:
<quoted text>
The survey is good... it's common knowledge that Wicca is becoming more popular with each passing day. The only thing that may be slightly misleading is the small sample size... but that's expanding exponentially also. The site I linked before are Christian sites commenting on Wicca's popularity, and it's scaring the crap out of them. If you were to include other new age Pagan beliefs in the poll it would be even more impressive. The sheep are realizing the shepherd's a fraud and their leaving the flock in hoards.
NO doubt it has maintained a fairly consistent popularity thus far... largely due to movies and the internet, but it's hard to say by numbers alone... I have seen so many people come and go it's hard to say how long it will continue to be popular. Most of those flocking to Wicca are teenagers who see it as a cool fad, but the novelty soon wanes and they drift away once the realize it's not like they see in the movies. I would say there is a steady influx to the religion, but also a steady number who get bored and leave as well. The biggest issue is the lack of organized groups that these people can meet with to share their views. Which is why we see so much internet activity in Wicca and witchcraft and paganism in general. We see a church on every corner, but very few meeting places for Wiccans and witches and pagans. IN some ways this is a good thing, but it also has it's drawbacks. I guess that's why they call the big three organized religions.

“A witty saying proves nothing”

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#190 Apr 16, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
NO doubt it has maintained a fairly consistent popularity thus far... largely due to movies and the internet, but it's hard to say by numbers alone... I have seen so many people come and go it's hard to say how long it will continue to be popular. Most of those flocking to Wicca are teenagers who see it as a cool fad, but the novelty soon wanes and they drift away once the realize it's not like they see in the movies. I would say there is a steady influx to the religion, but also a steady number who get bored and leave as well. The biggest issue is the lack of organized groups that these people can meet with to share their views. Which is why we see so much internet activity in Wicca and witchcraft and paganism in general. We see a church on every corner, but very few meeting places for Wiccans and witches and pagans. IN some ways this is a good thing, but it also has it's drawbacks. I guess that's why they call the big three organized religions.
LOL... Christians have a hard time grasping the concept that not everyone needs to get together and sit around in a group on a weekly basis to confirm their spirituality. But this is one thing that Wicca does offer, the synergy and support of a group of like thinking people.

“WOOH!!”

Since: May 08

Vallejo, CA

#191 Apr 16, 2011
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it is a list of written resources that you would have to READ.
I'm familiar with many of the titles. What specific source material on that list confirms that historical witches were evil?

“WOOH!!”

Since: May 08

Vallejo, CA

#192 Apr 16, 2011
What wrote:
<quoted text>
If witches are not evil than why do you keep repeating Satanic propaganda and lies?
I don't.

Since: Jul 07

Location hidden

#193 Apr 17, 2011
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, here's the thing... maybe also reading my dirty dog analogy may help... but Wiccans have a valid religion. Not that Christians will ever see it as such anyway because they can't, else they discredit their own religion. But by using the term 'witch' they inherit all the negative views that go with it. It matters little if a great deal of this negative view was perpetrated by Christianity or not. Christianity only took an already undesirable character in society and connected that character to their Satan... they didn't create the negative character.
.
The Derivation Of The Word "Witch" Doreen Valiente

In spite of all claims, it seems to me that it remains a matter of opinion. One thing we do know is that the word came to Britain with the Saxons, who at the time of their arrival on these shores were pagans. I believe that to them, the word witch (or whichever of its forerunners they used), did not necessarily have any derogatory meaning. A witch was a seer, a knower, an averter of evil. The word only took on a negative meaning with the coming of Christianity, which taught that all the gods of the heathen were devils. So anyone who clung o the old ways and the Old Religion was a devil worshipper. And annually, around Halloween, we still see the same old charges being made in the same old spirit of bigotry. Isn't it sad that these good folk haven't learnt anything since the Dark Ages?

http://www.paganlibrary.com/reference/derivat...

Since: Jul 07

Location hidden

#194 Apr 17, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
NO doubt it has maintained a fairly consistent popularity thus far... largely due to movies and the internet, but it's hard to say by numbers alone... I have seen so many people come and go it's hard to say how long it will continue to be popular. Most of those flocking to Wicca are teenagers who see it as a cool fad, but the novelty soon wanes and they drift away once the realize it's not like they see in the movies.
Whilst the 'novelty' may wane for some, others will take what they have learned from Wicca and apply it to their very own spiritual path, thats the beauty of Wicca. It gives a person options to explore and move on if they so wish, it isn't constricting like the main stream religions.and because they move on (as I did) its hard to keep records, I personally don't care about records and I have no need to know how many Wiccans exist, I hate to be lumped in with everyone else like a herd of cattle.
I have also found that parents that practice Wicca and other Pagan paths are more likely to encourage their own children to find their own individual path in life.

I personally won't be celebrating Easter but my children will be, I wonder how many Christian children free to celebrate Ostara?

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#195 Apr 17, 2011
Kethry wrote:
<quoted text>
The Derivation Of The Word "Witch" Doreen Valiente
In spite of all claims, it seems to me that it remains a matter of opinion. One thing we do know is that the word came to Britain with the Saxons, who at the time of their arrival on these shores were pagans. I believe that to them, the word witch (or whichever of its forerunners they used), did not necessarily have any derogatory meaning. A witch was a seer, a knower, an averter of evil. The word only took on a negative meaning with the coming of Christianity, which taught that all the gods of the heathen were devils. So anyone who clung o the old ways and the Old Religion was a devil worshipper. And annually, around Halloween, we still see the same old charges being made in the same old spirit of bigotry. Isn't it sad that these good folk haven't learnt anything since the Dark Ages?
http://www.paganlibrary.com/reference/derivat...
The key words being 'I believe'... there is no way to know what the word meant to these people.
Doreen also states;
Strangely enough, the derivation of the word witch is a subject on which scarcely any two authorities can be found to agree. The most frequent explanation is that it is akin to the word wise, and that witchcraft therefore means The Craft of the Wise.

It is widely believed that Gerald Gardner originated this derivation. However, this is incorrect, as it appears in Hugh Ross Williamson's book, The Arrow and the Sword, first published in 1947, before any of Gerald Gardner's books on witchcraft.

When in fact a reference appeared MUCH earlier in Reginald Scots, "The Discoverie of Witchcraft," 1584 - At this day it is indifferent to say in the English tongue,'she is a witch,' or 'she is a wise woman.'
This still does not confirm that 'witch' had ANY connection to wise.
In fact there is nothing concrete to support any claims that witch was ever anything but derogatory.. or in the very least questionable. Of course this debate has been raging on for a long time and I am doubtful if we will ever find an agreeable answer.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#196 Apr 17, 2011
Kethry wrote:
<quoted text>
Whilst the 'novelty' may wane for some, others will take what they have learned from Wicca and apply it to their very own spiritual path, thats the beauty of Wicca. It gives a person options to explore and move on if they so wish, it isn't constricting like the main stream religions.and because they move on (as I did) its hard to keep records, I personally don't care about records and I have no need to know how many Wiccans exist, I hate to be lumped in with everyone else like a herd of cattle.
I have also found that parents that practice Wicca and other Pagan paths are more likely to encourage their own children to find their own individual path in life.
I personally won't be celebrating Easter but my children will be, I wonder how many Christian children free to celebrate Ostara?
I agree somewhat regarding the more eclectic forms of Wicca... but one cannot deny that Gardnerian Wicca, Alexandrian Wicca etc had a very clearly defined structure with rules. It wasn't nearly as open to interpretation as some more recent forms of Wicca.... it's hard to count the qualifiers that have been added to the word.
Dianic Wicca, Faerie Wicca, Traditional Celtic, Traditional British, Pictish Wicca, Seax Wicca, and the list goes on.
SO in some ways we could just as easily say that Wicca has become too watered down and really is as meaningless and hard to define as witch is unless you add some kind of description to it when you use it.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#197 Apr 17, 2011
NiftyWitch wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm familiar with many of the titles. What specific source material on that list confirms that historical witches were evil?
Start here;

http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Middle-Canto-Rich...

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#198 Apr 17, 2011
Clark Griswold wrote:
<quoted text>
I got in late on this... is it me or is this William guy kind of a prick?
In my opinion yea he is..

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#199 Apr 17, 2011
Silent Whispers wrote:
<quoted text>
One of my original points to start with, but some Wiccans and modern witches like Kathwynn would readily believe otherwise. Several times now Kathwynn has referred me to the origins of the terms "wicca" or "warlock" within the context of modern linguistically interpretation which for linguistic scholars (as much as for modern Witches) should not be the end of the debate.
My umbrage right now is that simply because William has been branded a Christian by Kathwynn he's wrong for arguing these points. The minute we as pagans try to censor one another like that we begin to become as autocratic as the fundamentalists of any religion or spirituality. I have sincerely tried to be as open minded and inquisitive about Kathwynn's points but thus far all I've been afforded are glib answers chiding me for not recognizing them as the authority they are as a Wiccan priest or ignored in favour of provoking William. A complete lack of respect, and a very un-Wiccan thing to do I imagine.
You think I was censoring.. i wasn't that was all your interpretation.. And "branding" William for what he has portrayed himself is not wrong.

People like William ultimate agenda always seam to me be the same thing to shove those bad old pagan back where in the closet.

Bah. William can shove it up a nether region.. The word Witch is an honorable title.. We Pagans are not going back in to some closet to make any one happy.. The word Witch in spite of christian propaganda is being reclaimed. If William hates that fact.. Tough shyt.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#200 Apr 17, 2011
Clark Griswold wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think the word was recently adopted. Witchcraft has been around for thousands of years. It isn't like it went away and Wiccans suddenly brought it back. A Witch is a practitioner of magic... Wiccans are Witches... the term applies. The term "Warlock" is very ill defined. I don't think it was until "Bewitched" that male Witches were called Warlocks. It's more of a media word... like Harry Potter popularized the word "Wizard".
It depends on what corner of the world you're talking about and what point in history as to whether Witches were considered evil. 1000 AC in Scandinavia the Witch was considered a wise revered person. 500 years later in Europe they were considered Satan's bed mates. The dirt you say is associated with the word Witch was rubbed on it by Christianity. There's a direct correlation between how negatively Witches were viewed and how powerful the Christian religion was. Wiccan's didn't invent a new word to describe themselves because Christian public relations wasn't foremost on Gardners wish list.
Exactly. Something that William and people like him seem to conveniently forget..

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#201 Apr 17, 2011
NM Desert Rat wrote:
<quoted text>
Witch Rat or Rat Witch? I've been called a lot of things but that is a new title. I like it. From now on I'm the Grand PooBah Rat Witch.
And we shall all from now call you the Grand PooBah Rat Witch unless you do not like it in which case we will call you... The Grandest PooBah Rat Witch!!! Exclamation marks included.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#202 Apr 17, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
NO doubt it has maintained a fairly consistent popularity thus far... largely due to movies and the internet, but it's hard to say by numbers alone... I have seen so many people come and go it's hard to say how long it will continue to be popular. Most of those flocking to Wicca are teenagers who see it as a cool fad, but the novelty soon wanes and they drift away once the realize it's not like they see in the movies. I would say there is a steady influx to the religion, but also a steady number who get bored and leave as well. The biggest issue is the lack of organized groups that these people can meet with to share their views. Which is why we see so much internet activity in Wicca and witchcraft and paganism in general. We see a church on every corner, but very few meeting places for Wiccans and witches and pagans. IN some ways this is a good thing, but it also has it's drawbacks. I guess that's why they call the big three organized religions.
Funny thing is that most in my part of Pa.. it is not just teens, but adults my age and older and younger..

Go to a pagan festival or be invited to a Wiccan Ritual.. I think you would have your eyes opened at what a lame post this is..

I know you were in there in the beginning.. Even though you are only a year older than I am.. Got it..

But then I do not expect you to ever show up at pagan festival or go to a Wiccan ritual.

And while YOutube is not always the best place I think this does illustrate my point. As well as show how uniformed that opinion of your is here..

Beltane Ritual
&fe ature=related

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#203 Apr 17, 2011
William- wrote:
Or you could start with something that is a little more scholarly..

http://www.chasclifton.com/

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#204 Apr 17, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
In my opinion yea he is..
You would though, because I present debates that you would rather avoid because it may actually make you have to rethink your beliefs.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#205 Apr 17, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
You think I was censoring.. i wasn't that was all your interpretation.. And "branding" William for what he has portrayed himself is not wrong.
People like William ultimate agenda always seam to me be the same thing to shove those bad old pagan back where in the closet.
Bah. William can shove it up a nether region.. The word Witch is an honorable title.. We Pagans are not going back in to some closet to make any one happy.. The word Witch in spite of christian propaganda is being reclaimed. If William hates that fact.. Tough shyt.
LOL... no problem... you go on believing whatever you like... it seems you would rather dwell in ignorance than even have an open mind to something that goes against your own narrow views, even though there is as much evidence to support it as what you believe.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#206 Apr 17, 2011
William- wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree somewhat regarding the more eclectic forms of Wicca... but one cannot deny that Gardnerian Wicca, Alexandrian Wicca etc had a very clearly defined structure with rules. It wasn't nearly as open to interpretation as some more recent forms of Wicca.... it's hard to count the qualifiers that have been added to the word.
Dianic Wicca, Faerie Wicca, Traditional Celtic, Traditional British, Pictish Wicca, Seax Wicca, and the list goes on.
SO in some ways we could just as easily say that Wicca has become too watered down and really is as meaningless and hard to define as witch is unless you add some kind of description to it when you use it.
That is Wicca greatest strength.. As well As its weakness.

We Wiccans do not always see a need to define ourselves for others. If that is upsetting.. Deal with it.

Though the UU has the same problem as it turns out.. Ask any 10 UU and get 11 different answers..

Much like the Unitarians we Wiccans seem to hit on something that gives a person to grow. Not in a religion or church, But as a person of faith.

Transcending the need to have label or what ever it is you think a religion should be clearly defined as being.

Wiccans are Pagan. In any given Circle you might find people with as radical differing beliefs. But what identifies a Wiccan is the 'Rede.

'An It harm None, Do as Thou Wilt.

And yes differing Groups ad people do put differing emphasis and interpretation on the 'Rede. Again we Wiccans are not here to define a religion or even appease people like you.. We live our lives.. Sometime making good choices. Sometimes not so good choices.

There are as many Republican Conservative Wiccans as there are liberal Democratic one. And ever political stance in between and out side of that as well. The few things a Wiccan will agree with are that we adhere individually to the 'Rede as the person agree with it applying to him or her.

And yet William People come and do stay. More than is sometimes realized. It is why a person is sometimes called exploring or walking a path.. She or he may not yet have decided for themselves. No sales pitch. No guilt about remaining or going. just a decision that will be made freely at some point to either stay or go with no pressure.

We explore and celebrate life each in our own way. If that does not suit your need for a final Definition.. Too bad..

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#207 Apr 17, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny thing is that most in my part of Pa.. it is not just teens, but adults my age and older and younger..
Go to a pagan festival or be invited to a Wiccan Ritual.. I think you would have your eyes opened at what a lame post this is..
I know you were in there in the beginning.. Even though you are only a year older than I am.. Got it..
But then I do not expect you to ever show up at pagan festival or go to a Wiccan ritual.
And while YOutube is not always the best place I think this does illustrate my point. As well as show how uniformed that opinion of your is here..
Beltane Ritual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =pzIDkFVf4n0XX&feature=rel ated
Regardless, the majority of those flocking to Wicca are teens.
I never said once that adults didn't participate, but you enjoy twisting things around to suit your own agenda, as has been apparent. And you have no idea how many festivals or rituals I have attended... do you.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#208 Apr 17, 2011
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
That is Wicca greatest strength.. As well As its weakness.
We Wiccans do not always see a need to define ourselves for others. If that is upsetting.. Deal with it.
Though the UU has the same problem as it turns out.. Ask any 10 UU and get 11 different answers..
Much like the Unitarians we Wiccans seem to hit on something that gives a person to grow. Not in a religion or church, But as a person of faith.
Transcending the need to have label or what ever it is you think a religion should be clearly defined as being.
Wiccans are Pagan. In any given Circle you might find people with as radical differing beliefs. But what identifies a Wiccan is the 'Rede.
'An It harm None, Do as Thou Wilt.
And yes differing Groups ad people do put differing emphasis and interpretation on the 'Rede. Again we Wiccans are not here to define a religion or even appease people like you.. We live our lives.. Sometime making good choices. Sometimes not so good choices.
There are as many Republican Conservative Wiccans as there are liberal Democratic one. And ever political stance in between and out side of that as well. The few things a Wiccan will agree with are that we adhere individually to the 'Rede as the person agree with it applying to him or her.
And yet William People come and do stay. More than is sometimes realized. It is why a person is sometimes called exploring or walking a path.. She or he may not yet have decided for themselves. No sales pitch. No guilt about remaining or going. just a decision that will be made freely at some point to either stay or go with no pressure.
We explore and celebrate life each in our own way. If that does not suit your need for a final Definition.. Too bad..
Ummm.... did you even read what I wrote?
You basically said the same thing as an argument against what I said. As for you saying if it doesn't fit my need for a final definition being too bad.... who are you to speak with such authority for the entire Wiccan community? If I am Wiccan and require such a final definition based on what you just said I am entitled to it because Wicca is an open religion. You said- "We explore and celebrate life each in our own way"
You said -"We Wiccans do not always see a need to define ourselves for others. If that is upsetting.. Deal with it."
Why don't you speak for yourself instead of 'We Wiccans'... since not every Wiccan is the same. Else you appear to be a hypocrite.

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