Two guilty of 'ritualistic' abuse

Dec 14, 2012 Full story: The Belfast Telegraph 412

Peter Petrauske and Jack Kemp were said to have donned ceremonial robes and pagan paraphernalia before abusing young girls in Cornwall during the 1970s.

Full Story
DaBroad

Andover, MN

#260 Jan 31, 2013
I will make one more response.
Rape is about power. Pedophilia is a mental illness. Neither one has ANYTHING to do with sex. Neither has anything to do with religion. That some cloak these things in religion is sad but it is beside the point. To rail at all pagans because a couple use the trappings of religion to perpetrate their crimes is illogical. Some teachers have done the same; would you accuse the entire profession? When attacking an entire group for the actions of the few, emotion is overtaking logic. People committed these crimes, not a religion.
If you were personally affected, it would be easy to blame everyone and everything possible for these acts. But the only ones to blame are the actors, and anyone who had knowledge of what was happening and did nothing.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#262 Jan 31, 2013
And Just like I said before, the liar and his mental illness shows no bounds. Slander gets him removed every time.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#263 Jan 31, 2013
Research and statistics that you cannot cite, and as been pointed out multiple times in depth, your so called sources are bunk. Most of the population is a member of a religion, so almost any criminal can be sourced to one. The over-zealous and obsessive people of any creed or philosophy are the ones to watch out for.

Once again, it would be pointless and absurd for a person into kink and/or BDSM to join a religion they don't believe in to take part in rituals that are symbolic. And there are plenty of online communities, bars and other well defined and easy to find like-minded people to join up with that simply do the things they are into. Once again, there are plenty of cases of abuse that happen in non-religious terms such as sports groups, schools, or medical facilities and even by family members (which actually, I believe is the most common.)

Furthermore, there are plenty of boundaries and rules in kink and BDSM groups, and I think they would be just as offended as Pagans are if you were to go tromping into their group and accuse them of inviting & welcoming criminals into their midst. Just because someone is into a little slap and tickle doesn't means that they want to be raped or coerced into anything against their wishes. You are still blaming the victims for their interests for being victimized. It is no one's fault except the perp regardless of whatever spriritual or non-spiritual, sexual or non-sexual views they hold in common with their victims (or pretend to).

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#264 Jan 31, 2013
http://www.safekidsbc.ca/statistics.htm

http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/factsheet/pdf/CSA-FS2...

Two factual, credible, professional sources. Nothing about edited youtube videos or uncoyrighted text of questionable source and vailidity found only on the internet. Just data.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#269 Jan 31, 2013
And Pinchy rants and raves, getting his slanderous claims slapped out of the thread once again. Mental illness on his part can sure have some UGLY effects on people

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#270 Jan 31, 2013
pinch111 wrote:
<quoted text>No i have never blamed the victims,you lie!The perverts who committed the child abuse were welcomed into the Pagan coven who together with even with their previous form.I note there is no safe word during Guardnerian initiation.As for most people being members of a religion,mmm debatable,many people tick boxs on forms etc most are not members,the churches here are mostly empty only the zealots and deluded attend.Have you ever taken part in an initiation of a neophyte?See you on the other thread[when do you know you are wiccan] soon i still have questions you have failed or do not want to answer concerning the scourge you spoke of,and you mentioned some covens do use it, its purpose to be to bring blood to the surface or something like that you said,i'm wondering why is pain via the scourge used,what purpose does it serve,not sexual you said but forgot for some reason to mention the initiate being bound for some reason,ah well guess i've asked now?
I do not lie, you have insinuated this repeatedly, including in this very statement. This coven did not knowingly invite in a criminal. The article even says that they testified he gained their respect by acting as a "perfect gentleman" around them. Just like many other perps in many other social situations.

I have no idea what this "previous form" is that you keep babbling about- you are so emotional when you make these posts, you barely get in punctuation or spaces between sentences.

I never said to bring out blood. You are blantently lying and twisting words. Post #237. I also reiterated that pain was not the purpose of the scourge. Why would there need to be a safe word?

I've not known any covens to use binding cords on people for more than symbolic things like tying a couple's hands together at a handfasting.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#272 Jan 31, 2013
Stimulate is a general term, you might want to try it on your brain sometime. See post #238.
pinch11

Liskeard, UK

#273 Jan 31, 2013
Whoops forgot to ask why is the initiate bound hand behind the back cord leading to and wound around the throat and blindfolded,what is the purpose is to concentrate their mind on the stimulation,???according to the book of shadows.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#274 Jan 31, 2013
Oh sure, but you can pull qoutes from a discussion of generally held sex-positive principals and lump it into a bunch of weird question about the use of the scourge. See post #238. I can't help you if you don't know what that means.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#275 Jan 31, 2013
Oops, 137 & 138 address your question in the other thread.

If you are really interested there is a whole lot more to read and study then propaganda on the internet including a video most other Athiests would see right through as being heavily edited by Christian zealots with an agenda.

The fact is that you came here already predisposed to your farcial theories, found two unsubtantiated websites to uphold your already formed point of view, and are so obsessed with these that you can't even read the word 'stimulate' in a straight-forward manner. If you want answers to all your weirdo questions about the use of a scourge in Wicca, it's pretty darn simple, go get a back massage- and by that I mean by a theraputic practioner.
joX

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#276 Jan 31, 2013
pinch111 wrote:
<quoted text>Not so sure about paganism being natural just like many other religions the history of paganism contains dark beliefs including human sacrifice,this is known from ancient scripts but more importantly from,archaeology.My worry is that some nutcase pagans will always want to go back to the more tradition old ways.Every year for instance around certain dates in Cornwall horses are found ritually slaughtered last one was in may last year.Obviously the pagans who are doing this think they are doing something natural and magical but the truth is they are insane,it begs the question how for back are they willing to go,human sacrifice?No i see pagans who for some reason love to put over themselves as friends of the earth but with no substance,i'll continue to put my trust in environmental science and not mumbo jumbo.
You are entitled to your own thoughts on this matter. However, before you post your personal thoughts on this Pagan forum, you have to first of all be open minded with some degree of intelligence. Do you get your beliefs from the Daily Mail per chance or/and the all knowing UK media? You are posting statements which you cannot possibly backup with justification, apart from your own vitriol and ignorance. Until you can develop a good academically sound argument, then you can discuss your thoughts in a coherent manner.
pinch111

Liskeard, UK

#277 Jan 31, 2013
CShine wrote:
Oh sure, but you can pull qoutes from a discussion of generally held sex-positive principals and lump it into a bunch of weird question about the use of the scourge. See post #238. I can't help you if you don't know what that means.
You have constantly avoided answering cosisely answering the questions???answers please?????I have been concise why are you not?I must say though you are the first Wiccan on this sight to even admit that these initiations with the bondage,whipping,blindfolding, even exist,so for that i applaud that,pity you are now holding out now though.The initiations are not conducted by established lovers and your claim that they are not sexual are rejected as ludicrous.COM E ON GO THE DISTANCE ANSWER THAT QUESTION.Yes the scourge thing is weird i agree but thats not me using it is it.
pinch111

Liskeard, UK

#278 Jan 31, 2013
CShine wrote:
Oops, 137 & 138 address your question in the other thread.
If you are really interested there is a whole lot more to read and study then propaganda on the internet including a video most other Athiests would see right through as being heavily edited by Christian zealots with an agenda.
The fact is that you came here already predisposed to your farcial theories, found two unsubtantiated websites to uphold your already formed point of view, and are so obsessed with these that you can't even read the word 'stimulate' in a straight-forward manner. If you want answers to all your weirdo questions about the use of a scourge in Wicca, it's pretty darn simple, go get a back massage- and by that I mean by a theraputic practioner.
No i reject that, the video stands as evidence it was made by Alex Sanders wiccan,and the book of shadows was written by the father of Wicca Gerald Gardner.Not theory facts.
pinch111

Liskeard, UK

#279 Jan 31, 2013
joX wrote:
<quoted text>You are entitled to your own thoughts on this matter. However, before you post your personal thoughts on this Pagan forum, you have to first of all be open minded with some degree of intelligence. Do you get your beliefs from the Daily Mail per chance or/and the all knowing UK media? You are posting statements which you cannot possibly backup with justification, apart from your own vitriol and ignorance. Until you can develop a good academically sound argument, then you can discuss your thoughts in a coherent manner.
No do not read gutter press unless you count the Guardian as such A. M. i'm very much to the left in fact,i know for a fact i would not get into the USA,for my political past[anti contras]but why would i want to visit an asylum.I am open minded,unlike the blinkered Pagan zealots,is chess a measure of intelligence do you think?,its my hobby and if it is a measure i'd play you anyday,nice try at insult,no effect though.
joX

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#280 Jan 31, 2013
CShine wrote:
Oops, 137 & 138 address your question in the other thread.
If you are really interested there is a whole lot more to read and study then propaganda on the internet including a video most other Athiests would see right through as being heavily edited by Christian zealots with an agenda.
The fact is that you came here already predisposed to your farcial theories, found two unsubtantiated websites to uphold your already formed point of view, and are so obsessed with these that you can't even read the word 'stimulate' in a straight-forward manner. If you want answers to all your weirdo questions about the use of a scourge in Wicca, it's pretty darn simple, go get a back massage- and by that I mean by a theraputic practioner.
CShine. Do not explain yourself further to these posts. Whoever this irirtation is, it is not worth your knowledge. Remember, this is a public forum and as such we attract the negative parts of society. Please do not answer to it anymore, keep your fabulose posts to the your kin who love your thoguhts Joxxxx
joX

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#281 Jan 31, 2013
pinch111 wrote:
<quoted text>No do not read gutter press unless you count the Guardian as such A. M. i'm very much to the left in fact,i know for a fact i would not get into the USA,for my political past[anti contras]but why would i want to visit an asylum.I am open minded,unlike the blinkered Pagan zealots,is chess a measure of intelligence do you think?,its my hobby and if it is a measure i'd play you anyday,nice try at insult,no effect though.
Was'st meant for effect. As I said come back when you grow up. Ps.. you sound pretty drunk..go to bed. Goodnight.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#282 Jan 31, 2013
And Pinchy's mental illness is laid bare for all to see, the bigotry, the perversion, the lies his mind has made up to explain things he's too dim to understand.
Soon to be removed yet again.
joX

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#283 Jan 31, 2013
Pagan and Proud wrote:
And Pinchy's mental illness is laid bare for all to see, the bigotry, the perversion, the lies his mind has made up to explain things he's too dim to understand.
Soon to be removed yet again.
Hi Pagan and Proud. Good to hear from you. I love this forum very much, when i see my friends being bashed and hurt, i feel hurt also. Problem is this is a public forum and we attract hatred towards us. I keep banging on about it but, education from people like us, will someday make a difference. Anyhoo..I hope you are well and BB JOX
Tommy2

Burnham-on-sea, UK

#284 Jan 31, 2013
pinch111 wrote:
<quoted text>yeh, yeh,blame the victims in vain attempt to defend your religion,did you read any of the evidence?Did you take note one of them was a pagan priest for many years?did you note the previous form for child abuse?did you note that they were known to be very good friends with Stan Pirie he notorious Cornish child sex abuser,ever heard of paedophile rings?yes?well this involved a whole pagan coven,bondage, men and women and enquiries are ongoing.You are no better than the Catholics who try to hide the truth,in fact you are worse at least in the maine they don't blame the victims like you.You do not care about the victims you only care for the tarnished reputation of your sordid religion.Do you not understand what it must have been like for these victims to live with this and then relive it in a court case?Read the evidence.In your paranoid world do you really think that three victims would invent stories,of being tied to chairs having hot wax dripped on them,daggers draw across their bodies men dancing around them doing crude things,being tied to a bed and being repeatedly raped?The jury believed them including the descriptions of the robes,your stupid pagan symbols,the chanting,the athames,etc etc the victims have been traumatised !!do you understand trauma? can you imagine being age 5years to ten years and these things happening to you would you want to relive it? do you know that more victims did not come forward none of the boys who were present?and to what end would they be lying about this? just to discredit a very small religion?No the abusers were perverts who found themselves welcomed into your religion,you should be asking yourself why?Lets face it there have been many cases involving your religion and if the truth be know too many for such a small religion worse than the fffing Catholics.I think they were very brave to come forward,i even know what triggered it,you'd be surprised at the power of simple forums like this and even in local newspapers online,people who care tend to stir it up,who knows someone may read this who has been abused in the past and thats all it can take sometimes.ffffgmoron
I did actually , I did read the evidence and from the word go i thought it was all a set up! How the hell can you remember what happened to you when you were like 3? try and remember ever single detail of what happened in your life when you were 3 years old? finding it difficult? Unlike you i have been reading into this case and i stil think its shite! Its a set up! So what if they knew Stan Pirie? yes he might of been found guilty of it but it does not mean these two men are does it? what solid evidence have they got? fuck all nothing solid just two pathetic girls trying to clamin a bit of compensation money!I hope the two women rot in hell for what they have done! Putting two innocent men behind for nothing!

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#286 Jan 31, 2013
pinch111 wrote:
<quoted text>You have constantly avoided answering cosisely answering the questions???answers please?????I have been concise why are you not?I must say though you are the first Wiccan on this sight to even admit that these initiations with the bondage,whipping,blindfolding, even exist,so for that i applaud that,pity you are now holding out now though.The initiations are not conducted by established lovers and your claim that they are not sexual are rejected as ludicrous.COM E ON GO THE DISTANCE ANSWER THAT QUESTION.Yes the scourge thing is weird i agree but thats not me using it is it.
m

I have answered them thoroughly, that you don't like the answers, because they do not support your demented theories cannot be helped. These are not the things I said. More twisting and misrepresentation.

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