Wiccan Atheists and Agnostics

Aug 12, 2013 Full story: BellaOnline 284

Can Wiccans also be atheists or agnostics? This may seem a strange question because the worship of the Lord and Lady is so central to many Wiccans' daily spiritual practice.

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“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#136 Aug 16, 2013
Daddy Dewdrop wrote:
<quoted text>
FYI...I didn't say I believed in GOD. But this is "one nation under God".
The US Supreme Court declared that phrase is a meaningless, NOT RELIGIOUS slogan.

Repeat: NOT RELIGIOUS.

Thus the word "god" in that phrase clearly is not anybody's actual... god..

Just a word, stripped of meaning by law.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#137 Aug 16, 2013
Daddy Dewdrop wrote:
<quoted text>
That wasn't religion causing the wars, that was mans ego...as usual! Religion was the excuse.
So it was an excuse.

So what?

It is 100% proof that NO GOD WHO CARES is behind ANY religion!

For what sort of god would permit his/her religion to be used to create just evil?

ONLY AN EVIL GOD.

Or else one that wasn't really a god at all-- powerless.

Or else?

A god who simply wasn't there at all...

“Priestess of the Mountains”

Since: May 10

United States

#138 Aug 16, 2013
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are half and half I think you do need to stop acting like you believe and focus all your energy on questioning, as if you have gone that far at lest something some where is wrong and the sooner you find it the better. Not only that but it will also give you a accurate location of where you are.
And that is all that is left to say, unless you want to give arguments on why half of you still believes your on your own.
I thought when this topic started to get heated that I had better stop responding or else I would end up with heart palpitations again...I should have listened to myself.

I thought you were being kind and looking for an open discussion, if you are, then I hate to sound mean but your choice of words is going about it all wrong. One cannot understand vocal tone with type, so perhaps I am reading you wrong in this (and if so I GREATLY apologize!)

But it would seem like you are not wanting an open discussion with me about my beliefs at all...it seems like, instead, you have a very biased side of this discussion and only want me to see things your way. Saying things like "stop acting like you believe" and "unless you want to give arguments...you['re] on your own." I wasn't doing this for your personal benefit, I started my comments on this topic to show that there are people out there who do consider themselves Wiccan and agnostic, nothing more and was simply trying to explain how that works since I thought that might help people understand.(And I am not alone in this as I have seen many others that think similar to me out there, I am definitely not the only Wiccan agnostic in existence.)

Again there is a part of me, as I've repeatedly said, that DOES believe. That is what questioning is! Questioning means that a person has begun to ask questions - not that they do not believe or that they completely and blindly believe. It would seem you want nothing more than to have me not believe and I do not understand why. My beliefs or non-belief is none of anyone else's business, I merely wanted to share that there are people like the article mentioned, out there. And I am just fine staying in this questioning stage. I consider it an enlightening experience. I may change and decide one way or the other later on in life, but for the most part I am just fine staying perfectly undecided because I DO believe that none of us know what is or is not out there. I believe that no single person is wrong or right when it comes to religious beliefs or non-belief. I believe that we are free to think whatever we want and no one should have the right to try and change that to suit their tastes. That's proselytization and I must admit, it is something I have never liked or agreed with.

And as far as I am concerned with belief, to each their own.

May everyone find peace with whatever makes them happy.

(And if this sounds upsetting or mean to you, I apologize for stating my opinion and please refer to paragraph #2.)

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#140 Aug 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Liars with no proof of god need to either shut up or go back to their cult leaders and ask them for proof.
All other dialog is a waste of time.
By labelling atheists as militant , you are admitting that you are liar with no proof of god, and no facts to back up your lies.
Trolls like you are dishonest as usual.
No I am saying that you have no need to be attacking any one with faith or the hate you have evidenced here.

By the way. Wicca has no "leaders" "cult leaders" that dictate what each Wiccan shall believe.

Also no I wont shut up in the face of a person that would call me liar. I did not at any time say you had to even accept my view of Deity as being valid to you. I realize and understand that you will never accept that as being valid. Guess what I am not threatened by it. The only reason I can think of that you want me to shut up and call me a liar. Is that you refuse to see past your own narrow world view. Much like a fanatic christian does.

And your projection is noted and dismissed for the stupidity you have evidenced here.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#141 Aug 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You are talking using words and sentences, while saying absolutely nothing.
Be a dear and prove your god and you'll stop looking like an idiot in sits forum...
Proof less whiners...
Nice try at deflection.. much like a fanatical christian uses to insulate him or herself away from reasoned. Thank you for proving my point so well.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#142 Aug 17, 2013
Pagan and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>No one owes you any form of proof for anything nitwit troll. You're just pissy because you were hoisted by your own petard. When there is no evidence either way only the answer "I don't know" is truth, anything more than that is Ego.
Something that he he? she? wont acknowledge. As it might create a place of rational dialog to take place.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#143 Aug 17, 2013
Yes GilnoKoibito you are reading my post wrong but you don't need to apologize, I have dealt people who have taken my posts and changed them with bad intent in their response, just the fact that you have said perhaps I am reading this wrong makes me happy, and someone saying that to me is actually a first or at lest a very rare thing.

The reasoning of my post is grounded on my own history as an atheist. When I was 15 I noticed that I had no reason for being an atheist and worst I never tried to test my own (at that point) quiet disbelief, I had to at some point take a look at things because if I don't my problem would just get bigger and bigger. Thus when I got to 6th form I studied philosophy and ethics at a level, as a result I become a vocal and strident atheist something that as a quiet atheist I despised, I know that if my younger self were to met me I would tell myself to in no vague terms "F*** off". This was all thanks to just me stopping acting like I belong to a group, and focusing all of my energy on questioning things in a careful manner.

How does this relate to my post, well it does show why I may have sounded a little forceful as I know that when you do start questioning things that affect you life in a big way, you have deal with it head on even if it's hard to do. The "I think you do need to stop acting like you believe" is something you have to do if you want to have a clear head, for me it was to stop acting like what you believe is something you shouldn't talk about which was my reason of not being vocal, if it was hard for me to get over a taboo which I had has a golden rule I can only imagine how hard it is to regularly do things that basically say "I do believe" when you are trying to found out if you still do. On another note on "I think you do need to stop acting like you believe" that is outside my personal history I know that trying to question and going to religious gatherings can (for lack of a better word) make you go nuts, I must admit I am hesitant to say this as I know how people don't like to be compared to religious nut jobs even if a comparison was not meant, but hear me out. If you know of Ted Haggard you know how much he hates gays, but why does he hate gays? Because he is gay... because as a pastor it is his job to teach among other things that gay sex is evil, and he is married to a woman who he clearly can't love because he is gay but yet is still trying to love, and now his life is a mess. I know this is a extreme example but if had stopped acting as pastor he could have turned out ok, he may have became an atheist or he could have simply been an openly gay pastor who still said that gay sex is evil with out the hate, if anything I don't want you to become that due to being confused, please don't take that the wrong way I mean this without malice towards you or any other religious person, its just the example that gets put on the forefront of my mind when I think of how to avoid confusion in life, worst case scenarios have a habit of doing that. My comment "lest something some where is wrong" my have been a little to vague what I meant was, "if you have got to half and half then there is something wrong some where in you reasons for still believing or in you reasons for starting to not believe". Lastly the part "And that is all that is left to say, unless you want to give arguments on why half of you still believes your on your own." is both a invitation to talk and a warning on how hard it is question things that are a key part in your life alone.

Hopefully that makes thing clearer and I wish you well, I know how thinking about what you should believe can lead to places that you once hated, and how as a result makes questioning hard as sometimes you have to get over the feelings you had for a position.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#144 Aug 17, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
Can Wiccans also be atheists or agnostics? This may seem a strange question because the worship of the Lord and Lady is so central to many Wiccans’ daily spiritual practice. But the short answer is yes. It is possible to concentrate on the cultural aspects of Wicca rather than its religious concepts.
According to the Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition, the definition of atheism is,“1. archaic: Ungodliness, Wickedness 2a: a disbelief in the existence of deity, b: the doctrine that there is no deity.” And, from the same source, here is the definition of agnostic:“1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly: one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god.”
----------
any dictionary describing atheism as Wicked is obviously kristain propaganda and should be dismissed as biased,
anyone worshiping Lord or Diety is not atheist,
it takes balls to question god and religion and be honest with yourself and the knowledge that death is the End,,
hope for afterlife and Imaginary friend wholl help you in life is main reasons for believing and worshiping those,,
believe what you want just dont expect rational folk to join in your fantasy
If you were talking about christianity you would be right.. But not in the Pagan religions. In the main our Gods and Goddesses are not there fulfill some sort of "heavenly reward".

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#145 Aug 17, 2013
Pagan and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting, the Jews weren't being persecuted by another Religious group, it was a Political group with ties to other religions as well as Occult ties, but even then the Rockets which were developed in Nazi Germany would eventually find their way to the United States and have taken us to the moon....
But such issues tied in with the world events don't interest one of your ilk. Such irony, to claim to be so evolved, yet when others dare step out of line and point out flawed reasoning the Primate nature comes out and the poop flinging begins.
Sadly it is every time...

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#147 Aug 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Its because you're a liar that you cannot prove that god is real or even matters at all.
When you dishonest people can actually define this bullsh*t that you so desperately want us to believe, we are all ears..and logic.
Troll elsewhere punk.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#149 Aug 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Nazism is an offshoot of Catholicism.
Indeed-- the Nazi government on multiple occasions received blessings from the catholic pope.
Nazi-Catholic tie-in-- photos proving what I just stated:
" http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm" ;
No actually it does nothing but prove your nothing more than a damn troll.
No proof, no truth and enough rhetoric to drown a Tea Party fanatic.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#150 Aug 17, 2013
Kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Something that he he? she? wont acknowledge. As it might create a place of rational dialog to take place.
They aren't looking for rational, they aren't even remotely attempting to actually discuss anything, they are trolls, and the moment you debunk one of their claims they snap like twigs and revert back to the primate attack method of flinging their feces. They aren't even bright enough to use the supposed standards of their "lack of proof" without screwing them up.
they'll be gone soon enough.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#152 Aug 17, 2013
Kathwynn wrote:
By the way. Wicca has no "leaders" "cult leaders" that dictate what each Wiccan shall believe.
One of the reasons why I can respect such a set of ideas. Without the leadership invested in a single individual or in a small group?

It is much more difficult to suborn and corrupt the original ideas.

Something I applaud, even if I don't believe in all of them.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#156 Aug 17, 2013
Pagan and Proud wrote:
they'll be gone soon enough.
Nope.

Atheist thread, in an **atheist** forum.

I've been posting since 2005. I'm not going anywhere.

But you?

I see by your incredibly low post-count? You are a newby.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#157 Aug 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Liars with no proof of god need to either shut up or go back to their cult leaders and ask them for proof.
All other dialog is a waste of time.
By labelling atheists as militant , you are admitting that you are liar with no proof of god, and no facts to back up your lies.
Trolls like you are dishonest as usual.
Nobody here wants you to join their religion or fall in with their personal spiritual beliefs.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#158 Aug 17, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Its because you're a liar that you cannot prove that god is real or even matters at all.
When you dishonest people can actually define this bullsh*t that you so desperately want us to believe, we are all ears..and logic.
Nobody here wants you to believe anything.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#159 Aug 17, 2013
Kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice try at deflection.. much like a fanatical christian uses to insulate him or herself away from reasoned. Thank you for proving my point so well.
When you're able to prove any of what you say, you cease looking like an idiot its that simple.

Trust me when I say we've seen them all here.

You are predictable - have no evidence to back up any of your claims and are full of sh*t.

Just give it a few more days and you will start spamming this forum with wicca nonsense, just like the creationists.

YOu are all self important douchebags with no evidence who enjoy playing "pretend" and call this spirituality.

Give us a break liars...

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#160 Aug 17, 2013
For people who claim superior reasoning and logic, it sure is hilarious that some of yall can't grasp the simple fact of how Topix works. This article popped up in the Pagan forum as an item to read and discuss the same way it appeared in the Atheist forum. Anybody who makes a post on the item from anywhere, be they looking in through the Pagan window or the Atheist window or just randomly surfing through Topix, it will be visible to anyone. There are more appropriate platforms if a particular group wants a private forum that others cannot view & comment on. Topix is not built that way, however.

Contrary to those who think non-Atheist have somehow dared to step into *their* forum and make a post from a different POV, if one goes back to the first page, there were a handful of Pagans or those with Pagan experience making thoughtful comments among each other until a poster started making attack posts out of the blue.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#161 Aug 17, 2013
CShine wrote:
For people who claim superior reasoning and logic, it sure is hilarious that some of yall can't grasp the simple fact of how Topix works. This article popped up in the Pagan forum as an item to read and discuss the same way it appeared in the Atheist forum. Anybody who makes a post on the item from anywhere, be they looking in through the Pagan window or the Atheist window or just randomly surfing through Topix, it will be visible to anyone. There are more appropriate platforms if a particular group wants a private forum that others cannot view & comment on. Topix is not built that way, however.

Contrary to those who think non-Atheist have somehow dared to step into *their* forum and make a post from a different POV, if one goes back to the first page, there were a handful of Pagans or those with Pagan experience making thoughtful comments among each other until a poster started making attack posts out of the blue.
I am quite aware it appeared in several forums.

So?

That does not remove the fact that it **is** in an atheist forum, and will get atheists comments.

Just as the thread will get other's comments from their forums.

If you had a point, I don't see what it is.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#162 Aug 17, 2013
CShine wrote:
.. there were a handful of Pagans or those with Pagan experience making thoughtful comments among each other until a poster started making attack posts out of the blue.
"attack posts out of the blue"?

What **I** saw was several **pagans** attacking **all** atheist posts-- even if those posts were simply observations or comments.

Sure-- there were **some** atheist posts that were highly critical.

But hardly all of them-- yet, I saw at least three non-atheists go on a rampage of seemingly "revenge" attack-posts, regardless of the actual **content**.

So much for rationality...

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