Poll Finds More Americans Believe In ...

Poll Finds More Americans Believe In Devil Than Darwin

There are 6844 comments on the Wren's Nest story from Nov 29, 2007, titled Poll Finds More Americans Believe In Devil Than Darwin. In it, Wren's Nest reports that:

“Um yeah, I took first year Philosophy too... Even took upper levels and still can't make a bold statement, brother.”

Title: POLL FINDS MORE AMERICANS BELIEVE IN DEVIL THAN DARWIN More Americans believe in a literal hell and the devil than Darwin's theory of evolution, according to a new Harris poll released on Thursday. via Wren's Nest

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Wren's Nest.

Skeptic

Mount Laurel, NJ

#5563 Mar 2, 2008
Abbey Yoyo wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound pretty hostile to evolution here. Why? Usually it's because someone's religious beliefs are threatened.
I think I have a certain fairness about me and I don't like what I see. I think that there's a lot of leaping going on around here with the scientific discoveries that seem to come through here everyday.
There's no definitive proof of anything close to what is being passed off as fact and I would have to wonder why.
I also see how politicized this issue has become and I don't like to see people being dishonest to gain on their opponents, for whatever reason.
If science proves that we evolved, that is fine with me, but don't come to me with anything less than absolute proof, unless you are willing to say that is the best you can do.
Skeptic

Mount Laurel, NJ

#5564 Mar 2, 2008
Abbey Yoyo wrote:
<quoted text>
But you criticize science for not looking into every claim for the supernatural. Since it is supernatural, there is nothing to measure or test. All you can do is record the story. I think the idea that the people who claim to have been kidnapped by ETs may have been abused as childen. It makes more sense to me than aliens. Likewise, some of the stories of the supernatural might be explained in a similar way. Why are you so adamant about someone's studying the supernatural which is an impossible feat?
Yo, Abbey! Sorry...
I'm perplexed. I don't know where you are getting this:

"you criticize science for not looking into every claim for the supernatural. Since it is supernatural, there is nothing to measure or test. All you can do is record the story"
"Why are you so adamant about someone's studying the supernatural which is an impossible feat?"

Without going back and looking through every post, I can't think of any of my posts that would lead you to the two conclusions above. A quote would be helpful.
Skeptic

Cherry Hill, NJ

#5565 Mar 2, 2008
Daughter of the King wrote:
Church was so awesome today! There is just something awesome about getting into Gods presence, I just wanted to share an awesome thought today, humans and the animals were both made from the earth so yes, there may be some of the same chemicals that are the same in both of us, but the difference is, God did not breath into the animals he only breathed into the humans, also man was created in Gods image the animals were not, and also God said for man to have dominion over all the birds, fish and animals on the land.......
Glad to see you so jubilant!

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5566 Mar 2, 2008
Post 1 of 15
Septic Sucker wrote:
<quoted text>Mark, are you now resorting to posting blatant lies as serious as this? Please produce one post on Topix by any of the "PsuedoChristians" that you mentioned saying that "it is acceptable according to their bible to kill Pagans".
There are laws in this country against killing anyone except for self-defense.
You are a very sick man. Your mind has warped beyond your capacity to see reality clearly. I am afraid that you need to find someone that can keep you from further hurting yourself.
Get off of Topix and get some real help.
Maybe your "friends" will advise you to do the same.
------
Mark Lotzer writes: Your mind is so irrational that it can not be explained to you. You would even deny that you were killing someone as you repeatedly stabbed him or her.

Reverend Becky Fischer: "Warlocks are the enemies of God! And I don't care what kind of hero they are, they're an enemy of God and had it been in the old testament Harry Potter would have been put to death!"

You do realize that this was said to a group of about 100 children who attended this brainwashing Jesus Camp, don’t you? These kids and their Pagan burning advocate parents also get together with this same woman minister week after week at their church! These poor kids can’t even do normal stuff at camp, like tell ghost stories at night. They had turned the lights off and had their flashlights on and were innocently exchanging the typical juvenile made up ghost stories and in comes the counselor saying that jeSus wouldn’t like it. If these had been normal kids, most of them would have flipped off the counselor with the byrd and kept having fun. Not this poor little brain washed PseudoChristians, whom shut off their flashlights and went to sleep. These wonderful PseudoChristian Parents also believe in quickie daily exorcisms because young minds are so vulnerable to Satan. I never once saw the Harry Potter films, but I really doubt that the Hogsworth’s Headmaster is Satan! Now I will definitely have to start from the beginning and watch all of the Harry Potter films. Heck, I bet my Roman Catholic nieces and nephews must have them all and will lend them to me.

Does anyone expect the Church For the Nations to be any different from any other intolerant PseudoChristian Group? If they ever got in charge, they would first strip away our rights away until they became the PseudoChristian SS and start killing any not believing as they do. They believe their PseudogOd to be above the universal tolerance we must all embrace for our mutual survival!

PseudoChristians, you defy objective reality. What chance does the U.S. legal system have against your gOd’s law?

By the way, I saw “The Golden Compass” and loved the film so much that I went out and bought after the movie Philip Pullman’s Trilogy “His Dark Materials” which contains “The Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife, and the Amber Spyglass” in a massive 933 pages. Here is the blurb from the back,“It is a tale born of witch clans and armored beasts, shining angels and magical devices, haunted otherworlds and the shocking destinies of Lyra and Will, two children at the center of a more-than-mortal battle.” I guess Lyra and Will would be killed by the PseudoChristians even though they are children. Oh, that is right, isn’t it! Reverend Becky Fischer would be killing another child because Harry Potter is a boy who is attending Hogworth, a finishing school for young Warlocks. So she is

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5567 Mar 2, 2008
Post 2 of 15

telling PseudoChristian children that according to the bible that it is all right to kill other children because they are Pagans. Is that the stench of a PseudoChristian or what?

When I need information on Devils and Demons, my first source is D & D Supplement III Eldritch Wizardry, Ancient and Powerful Magic by Gary Gygax and Brian Blume. But first a side story - my friend Chris could draw the most artistic dungeon floor plans I have yet to see. He also had his own D & D ruleset. His mother was a PseudoChristian and was constantly after Chris to give up D&D because she feared for his soul. I would joke with Chris that his mom must have thought we sacrificed real young virgin women to Satan while we rolled our dice and moved our miniatures around to fight evil monsters and take their treasure. This Supplement must have come out after that because there is most definitely an unconscious, naked, longhaired blond female lying on an altar all prepped to be sacrifice to a devil or demon by some dark cult. She does have gold bracelet on her left. Fantasy cheesecake for pubescent boys, got to love it! I made sure Chris’ mom never saw that one! Chris’ moms PseudoChristianity became so extreme that after his parent’s divorce, his mom moved out and Chris and his sister rarely saw her. She left her family for a PseudogOd – talk about losing your soul! Chris’ family was Roman Catholic like ours was. I believe Chris went off to college to study Oceanography and I lost track of him. Maybe we will contact each other somehow again.

Demons: Each type of demon, as well as the Demon Princes such as Orcus and Demogorgon have many extraordinary characteristics and those which are not common to all the ilk are dealt with in separate paragraphs accordingly. Demons all have the following characteristics in common: Infravision; the ability to teleport (no chance of error); cause darkness (in varying degree of effectiveness); and open a “gate”(varying degree of success according to type).

Demons are chaotic and evil; the smarter and stronger rule those of their kind who are weaker and less intelligent. The less intelligent will attack without question and fight until slain. Demons are type V and above are not actually slain when their material form is killed in combat; their material form being removed from their use, the demon in question is thereby forced back to the plane from whence it originally came, there to remain until a century has passed or until another aids it to go forth once again.

Demons will never willingly serve anyone or anything. If forced to served through magic or threat they will continually seek a way to slay their master/captor. Those to whom demons show a liking are typically carried off to the demons’ plane to become a slave (all though a favored one).

Demons frequently roam the astral plane. Their attention is also attracted by persons in an ethereal state. Check normally for wandering monsters, assuming a 10% chance of a demon appearing if a wandering monster is indicated.

If the name of a particularly powerful demon is spoken there is a chance that he will hear and turn his attention to the speaker. A base 5% chance is recommended to the referee. Unless prepared to avoid such attention – or to control the demon – the demon will thereupon immediately kill by whatever means are most expeditious the one pronouncing his name.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5568 Mar 2, 2008
Post 3 of 15

I once submitted a game adventure and here is the creature I made up called the Chill Fiend:

FREQUENCY: Very Rare; NO. APPEARING 1-3; ARMOR CLASS –1; MOVE 12”//12”; HIT DICE: 9; % IN LAIR: 10%; TREASURE TYPE: B, Y; NO. OF ATTACKS: 3; DAMAGE/ATTACK 1-8/1-8/2-8; SPECIAL ATTACK: Freezing bite; SPECIAL DEFENSE: Regeneration; MAGIC RESISTANCE: 60%; INTELLIGENCE: Average; ALIGNMENT: Neutral evil to chaotic evil; SIZE: L (8’ tall); PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil, Attack/Defense Modes: Nil; LEVEL/X.P. VALUE: VII/1,600 + 12 per hit point

The only certain thing about the chill fiend’s origins is that it is the result of accidental breeding between a demon and several different mammals. Slimy, reddish fur covers its bipedal body, and a black-mane runs down its back. This creature’s torso is muscular, lean, and bear-shaped. The head resembles that of a weasel except for the long-upright canine ears and the deer antlers atop its skull. Its green eyes are small and cat-like. The chill fiend’s canine teeth stick out of its mouth, being 6 inches long in the upper jaw and 3 inches long in the lower. While the two arms and paws and two legs are bearish, the orange, webbed, duck-like feet definitely are not. Five long, sharp claws are at the end of each paw. The creature’s body always appears to be slightly twitching.

This monster also has special abilities. Its namesake originated from the fact that there will be a noticeable chill in the air as far as 60’ away from this creature. A spoiled blood smell will be emitted from the chill fiend’s body after the first round of combat. It also has the power to regenerate its wounds at the rate of 1 hit point per 3 rounds, and due to its unusual ancestry, the chill fiend has a 60% magic resistance. Both claws cause 1-8 points of damage each while the antlers inflict 2-8. There is 50% chance every round that the chill fiend will use its freezing bite in place of the antler attack. The bite does 3-10 (d8+2) points of damage. A final ability the chill fiend has is to be able to breathe water or air.

Name - Rank - Type - AD&D Source
Oinodaemon - Anthraxus - Daemon - MMII30
Arcanadaemon - Greater daemon - Daemon - MMII28
Ultrodaemon - Greater daemon - Daemon - MMII31
Charonadaemon - Lesser daemon - Daemon - MMII29
Derghodaemon - Lesser daemon - Daemon - MMII29
Hydrodaemon - Lesser daemon - Daemon - MMII30
Piscodaemon - Lesser daemon - Daemon - MMII30
Yagnodaemon - Lesser daemon - Daemon - MMII31
Charon - The Boatman fo the Lower Planes - Daemon - MMII28
Mezzodaemon -- Daemon - FF66
Nycadaemon -- Daemon - FF66
Shator - Shaggy - Demodand - MMII34
Kelubar - Slime - Demodand - MMII34
Farastu - Tarry - Demodand - MMII33
Baphomet - Demon Lord - Demon - MMII36
Kostchtchie - Demon Lord - Demon - MMII40
Yeenaghu - Demon Lord of Gnolls - Demon - MM19
Graz'zt - Demon Prince - Demon - MMII39
Nagassu - Major Demon - Demon - MMII40
Babau - Minor demon - Demon - MMII36
Bar-Lgura - Minor demon - Demon - MMII37
Chasme - Minor demon - Demon - MMII38
Dretch - Minor demon - Demon - MMII38
Rutterkin - Minor demon - Demon - MMII41
Fraz-Urb'luu - Prince of Deception - Demon - MMII39
Demogorgon - Prince of Demons - Demon - MM16
Pazuzu - Prince of the Lower Aerial Kingdom - Demon - MMII41

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5570 Mar 2, 2008
Post 5 of 15

Skeleton - Animated Corpse - Undead - MM88
Skeleton Warrior - Animated Corpse - Undead - FF79
Son of Kyuss - Animated Corpse - Undead - FF83
Vampire - Animated Corpse - Undead - MM99
Wight - Animated Corpse - Undead - MM100
Zombie, JuJu - Animated Corpse - Undead - MMII131
Apparition - Spirit - Undead - FF12
Drelb (Haunting Custodian)- Spirit - Undead - MMII60
Ghost - Spirit - Undead - MM43
Huecuva - Spirit - Undead - FF51
Poltergeist - Spirit - Undead - FF73
Scarecrow - Spirit - Undead - FF77
Shadow - Spirit - Undead - MM86
Sheet Phantom - Spirit - Undead - FF78
Spectre - Spirit - Undead - MM89
Wraith - Spirit - Undead - MM102
Mephit - Messangers - Underworld - FF64
Annis -- Underworld - MMII9
Diakk -- Underworld - MMII50
Hordling -- Underworld - MMII75
Night Hag -- Underworld - MM73
Vargouille -- Underworld - MMII123

MM Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual
FF AD&D Fiend Folio (a product of TSR in Britian)
MMII Monster Manual II

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/su...

Susan Jacoby
Author and reporter
Susan Jacoby is the author of "The Age of American Unreason," to be published in February by Pantheon.

On the Civil Supremacy of Secular Law
I am tempted to ask whether the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, has been sampling a bit too much communion wine lately. Seriously, the archbishop's suggestion that British law should, in certain instances, recognize the authority of Islamic religious courts is the most politically destructive, anti-secular, and legally indefensible statement by a western religious leader in recent history.

This issue has nothing to do with Islam or the particular nature of Islamic law. Many religions--including Judaism and Roman Catholicism--also have religiously based legal mechanisms for resolving disputes that their adherents consider religious in nature. A rabbinical court may, for example, deny a woman the right to remarry within Orthodox Jewry. That is a woman's choice, if she chooses to bow to such archaic partriarchal dictatorship. But under U.S. law, a civil divorce is all that matters. The Vatican may also deny a divorced Catholic the right to remarry within the church, but that also has nothing to do with civil law. There is no reason why Islamic law should be treated any differently, in England or anywhere else. Secular law must be supreme; if people wish to place additional religious legal restrictions on themselves, that is their choice. The archbishop's bow to mulitculturalism run amuck is, in an odd way, a mirror image of Mike Huckabee's suggestion that the U.S. Constitution should be amended to conform to God's law. By which Huckabee means the God of Christianity, not the God of Islam.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5571 Mar 2, 2008
Post 6 of 15

The situation in the United States, I should point out, is different from that in Britain, where the Church of England is still the state-established church (and the monarch "defender of the faith"). Even though the British public (except for Muslims) is much more secular than the American public, it's possible that the Archbishop of Canterbury still hasn't quite gotten the notion of separation of church and state through his head. He did say that as "a pastor of the Church of England," it was appropriate to address the concerns of other religious communities, in this case Muslims. I guess if you still have the Merrie Olde England mindset, you consider yourself an Ur-pastor of everyone within the kingdom. In any case, it is completely inappropriate for the decisions of religious courts to have any secular force in democratic societies.

Williams's statements prompted calls for his resignation from many English bishops and politicians, as well as a number of moderate Muslims. In a statement to his church's governing body on Monday, he said that he was not in favor of issuing "blank checks" enabling Islamic religious courts to erode women's legal rights. That would certainly make me sleep better at night if I were a Muslim woman being charged with adultery in a religious court. The archbishop had, in fact, likened allowing Muslims to take certain issues to their own courts to Orthodox Jews' use of rabbinical courts. Again, the archbishop doesn't get it. As long as adherence to religious law is voluntary--and religious practice does not defy secular law--that's fine. But secular law is the only law of the land that applies to all citizens. Religious courts should never, ever, be allowed to substitute for or overrule secular courts. If a woman in England or America is granted a civil divorce, she is legally divorced--whether her religion recognizes that divorce or not.

The archbishop's position sounds uncomfortably close to that of a German judge who, last year, refused to grant a Muslim woman a civil divorce on grounds of spousal abuse because the husband and wife were Muslims and the judge was under the impression that Islamic law allows wife-beating.(The judge was overruled by a higher and presumably saner German court.) Civil authorities have no business interpreting religious laws and religion, in most instances, has no business trying to flout civil law.(Exceptions occur when civil law manifestly violates human rights--as it did, say, under the Nazis.)

In other instances, the state must step in and overrule religious practices that violate human rights. In the United States, if a Jehovah's Witness or a Christian Scientist parent denies a child a life-saving blood transfusion, the state will step in in the best interest of the child and overrule a religious practice. This is as it should be. If adults wish to die to uphold anti-rational religious beliefs, that is their right. But they have no right to make the same decision for their children. So too, if Muslim immigrant parents try to cut off their daughter's clitoris, the state should step in.

Liberty of conscience is now considered a basic human right (thanks to secular law, Archbishop Williams) but so too is the right of minors not to have their lives sacrificed to parental religious fanaticism. There are of course many areas in which civil law in western societies comes into conflict with certain religious beliefs, such as pacifism. The United States has been fairly ingenious at balancing the two interests. Conscientious objector status, for instance, allows pacifists to engage in military support activities, such as medical services, that involve saving life rather than taking life.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5576 Mar 2, 2008
Post 11 of 15

BILL MOYERS: Follow the emails and you pick up Monica Goodling's trail in both the dismissal of the prosecutors and in the choice of their highly partisan replacements.

Remember her old colleague from the war room, Timothy Griffin? She helped him become the new U.S. attorney in Arkansas.

Congress is now investigating to what extent the prosecutors were subjected to political pressure.

REP. JOHNSON: If in fact there was partisan political tests that were applied in the hiring of those US attorneys what impact do you believe that would have on career professionals in the department?

JAMES COMEY: That is the most, in my view, the most serious thing that I've heard come up in this entire controversy.

BILL MOYERS: Former Deputy Attorney General James Comey left the Department of Justice in 2005.

JAMES COMEY: You just cannot do that. You can't hire assistant US attorneys based on political affiliation again because it deprives the department of its lifeblood which is the ability to stand up and have juries of all stripes believe what you say. And have sheriffs and judges and jailers and the people we deal with trust the Department of Justice.

BILL MOYERS: Monica Goodling has yet to answer for herself. She invoked her 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination and resigned from the Justice Department on Good Friday.

House investigators will give her immunity and expect her to testify in the weeks ahead. The pundits and paparazzi are in waiting.

PRESS MONTAGE: And now that you've got an underling or associate ot whatever you want to call Monica Goodling...

It's just what Washington needs another Monica...

…Her mother was commenting to the press and she said that Monica's told her to say no comment to everyone she gets...

BILL MOYERS: Monica Goodling's meteoric rise and fall put Regent in the spotlight for merging the religious faithful with the party faithful.

But it hasn't dimmed the passion here for its mission or the power of its network. One of its star professors now is former Attorney General John Ashcroft. This son of a Pentecostal preacher brought prayer meetings and Bible study to the halls of justice when he was Attorney General.

PRAYER: "And Lord we also thank you for your servant, John David Ashcroft."

BILL MOYERS: It was Ashcroft who quietly began changing the Justice Department's hiring practices. Political appointees - instead of career attorneys - were put in charge of hiring in the Civil Rights division. Soon race-based discrimination cases began to be supplanted by cases of religious discrimination.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5577 Mar 2, 2008
Post 12 of 15

Now, in addition to lobbying in Washington, Ashcroft is helping to recruit and train a new crop of conservative and religious young people to serve the Lord in places of influence.

REGENT UNIVERSITY WEB PROMO, ASHCROFT: I'm excited about Regent University because it's a place where you can pursue learning and the truth with real intensity and God has not been placed off limits.

BILL MOYERS: Carly Gammill is one of the many promising students to graduate last week.

CARLY GAMMILL: Part of the goal of many of us who are going out from this institution from here on to make it clear and accurate what it really means to be a Christian leader to change the world, which is not to indoctrinate anyone but to share the truth and to offer the truth and to rely on the truth in the way that we handle our lives as an example to others.

ANNOUNCER: "Carly D. Gammill.

BILL MOYERS: Gammill is going to work for one of Regent's best-known alumni.

Jay Sekulow earned his PhD from Regent arguing that it's okay for judges to decide cases on the basis of their religious beliefs.

Sekulow now heads up Pat Robertson's American Center for Law and Justice, and was hand-picked by the White House to be an advisor on judicial nominations.

Last month, when the ascendant majority on the Supreme Court upheld a federal ban on "partial birth" abortion. Sekulow declared victory for the religious right and for Regent.

JAY SEKULOW: Well the end result is that a lot of the findings of fact that the Court made in NY, the finding of fact in our favor about the horrific nature of this procedure were incorporated in the Supreme Court decision that came out today.

BILL MOYERS: Sekulow's legal group wants to roll back other Supreme Court rulings that uphold gay rights and the separation of church and state. They'll have the help of Regent's finest.

CARLY GAMMILL: I intend to help further the administration of justice and to do justice. And I believe in absolute truth, and I believe in absolutes. Not grey, you know, not relative truth but absolute truth. And that's what God's word is.

BILL MOYERS: So Mitt Romney and Pat Robertson may have seemed an odd couple here this past weekend. But they are a happy couple. They have seen the future...right there in front of them

REV. PAT ROBERTSON: I am sure you will achieve greatness. We have on the platform the Attorney General of Virginia, one of our graduates, we have at least two of our graduates who are now judges, we have others who are elected officials at various levels, all over this area. We have many who are superintendents of school and principals of school.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5578 Mar 2, 2008
Post 13 of 15

BILL MOYERS: The Reverend Robertson couldn't be happier. His charges are going out to make the world over...in his image.

REV. PAT ROBERTSON: We have people in all walks of life who are creating a world that is better. So once again, I charge you seek greatness through service. God bless you.
------

Rosa: Where have you been? have you never heard of near death experiences and things that they saw? there have been others who died and came back to life, and wrote of their experiences go look in your Christian bookstores there are a lot of books on this matter...

Mark Lotzer: I think "Frankenstein" by Mary Shelly would be the best one on that subject. You could visit a bookstore like Barnes & Noble or Borders where there are other books than just Christian, you know Science. I suppose a near death experience could be like going through the wardrobe in The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis despite the Christian allegory in the first book. Did you know that the kids died in the last book and went to an Aslan type heaven instead of Yahweh's? If there is a heaven, I want to go to the Aslan one because there is more stuff to do there, like live in castles; ride horses; have tea with Centaurs, Satyrs, and Beavers; archery; and you get to use swords to kill evil beasts, fun! I wonder if birth control is needed there as I will be having lots of joyful sex with a princess or two; ok, make it three or four. Maybe we can do it all together in the same bed. Heaven, Aslan style! Now I have heard some Christians call Lord of the Rings a Christian allegory too. I really didn't see the connection. Seems to me that Tolkien wrote a really good allegory about World War II. Now don't get confused because WWII was not a Christian Allegory but a very dark time where almost all of Europe fell to a deranged maniac, who ruled over the same land as the Gutenberg Bible and Martin Luther. His goal was to blame the Jews thus justifying genocide. Where do the Jews go to for the afterlife? Did you know that they were forced to help build the V2s in the Mittlewerk prison factory located at mountain of Kohnstein, where they were starved and died in mass numbers (20,000 dead)? They did the only thing they could do in such a horrible place. When one of them had a chance he would pee inside the avionics of the rocket, causing many of the V2s to go off course on their way to England. If caught, they were hung up in cages from the ceiling that they could only stand in, often stripped of their clothes. They were never fed and eventually died and left to rot up there as examples to the other prisoners. I wonder where they went to when they died? Did god cast his first people into Hell with Satan because they had not been baptized in Christ's name? They certainly did not believe in Christ - he was not their Messiah. Hmmm. Will this supposed loving god, if he exists, throw me to hell because I have rejected my baptism and become agnostic? I have done the very minor thoughtless things that everyone does from time to time that might have caused some distress in others. On the other hand, I have tried to help out others and do the good deeds that others try to do as well. Normal people of many faiths and philosophies - many are not Christian, as I am. Does it really matter so much to God that we who are not Christian go to Hell because of some water ceremony that seems as silly as all the others? I can't say I am so sorry about my sins that I really need to ask for God's forgiveness. I actually wonder what is the point to cause eternal suffering to a mortal who can only perform finite amounts of pain and suffering.
I can imagine dying and finding myself before the Pearly Gates. Before me is gOd from the Old Testament, the Jews from Mittlewerk in line with other heaven destined souls, and the tunnel to Hell. Hitler stands at

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5579 Mar 2, 2008
Post 14 of 15
the head of a long line of people condemned to go to Hell. gOd says,“Mark Lotzer, you can enter heaven if you admit that you were wrong to be an Agnostic. I ask,“So to go to Heaven, I must admit to my error in being an Agnostic, even though you never left any empirical proof of your existence in the natural universe?”“Yes,” says the deity. I walk over to the doors leading to Hell and shove them inward. I turn to Hitler and say,“Deity, is there no way for you to redeem Hitler and these other people standing in line for Hell?” It replies,“I have justly judged them, damning them to Hell for all eternity!” I grab Hitler by the shirt.“See, you the most evil dictator of all time are getting your just desserts. But even now you think you are better than everyone else by being at the head of the line to Hell! I would then smile, saying,“I do declare that I now realize that I am an ATHEIST!” and step through the threshold to Hell. I turn and shout as loudly as I can the following:

TO HELL, TO HELL
TO HELL WE’LL GO!
WE WOULD RATHER BURN ETERNAL AND BE gOd’S BETTER
THAN BOW TO THE DIVINE ULTIMATE TYRANT,
ENSLAVED TO THE PARADISE OF HEAVEN.
BY DAMNING OUR SOULS,
OUR SPIRITS REMAIN ETERNALLY FREE!

I would then hold the doors open and the line would proceed through. I could imagine how pissed this deity would be! When the Jews from Mittlewerk prison boldly walk forward just as the line to Hell appears to be almost all the way through, gOd’S outrage would be off the scales. I would smile and say to my Jewish comrades,“I knew you would rather follow the earthly dictator who so cruelly worked you to death than be enslaved under the ultimate dictator, gOd. Now, who ever is last in line, be sure to close these damn doors, so the riffraff of Heaven do not get in!” And then we would all go down to Hell, smiling as we went!

As an Agnostic, I want to believe that if God does exist, it is truly good. I think it is time for Christian’s who have not done so, to throw out the concepts of Hell, the Devil, and Evil. They are contrary to a benevolent, loving deity who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnigood. The bible should then be revised as well. It should then be stressed that the Bible is a book of Christian mythology with stories showing us God’s good nature. If logic dictates that Evil can not exist in the presence of such an Omnideity, then I would offer the following solution. An OmniGod should be able to limit its abilities, as one can not be truly all powerful if one lacked the ability to do so. This would be necessary for God to give humans freewill. It would have to purposely make itself unaware of what humans were doing because if it knew that humans were going to do something wrong, then it would have to stop them and true freewill could not exist. Acts of Nature are not direct Acts of God but are an avoidable side effect of the physical laws and systems God created. This God would also redeem and not condemn someone who even follows the darkest path because it is a requirement of being good. Also, Jesus died on the cross as a sign that even those who crucified him would eventually be redeemed!

-----

Place: PseudoChristian Hell
Time: After my death.

In the Lake of Fire, writhing in eternal torment are the bodies of Adolf Hitler, Mark Lotzer, Gandhi, and True Jesus.“Oh the pain! It’s horrible!

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5580 Mar 2, 2008
Post 15 of 15

We burn! The torment of it and we are damned to suffer forever!” Suddenly, Satan says,“Ok, it’s fine! PseudogOd isn’t looking anymore! I haven’t let the water get too cold!”

Adolf:“Actually, a couple degrees warmer would be nice! How about it guys?”

Everyone nods in agreement.

True Jesus:“What is taking Madalyn?

Satan:“Murray O'Hair was muttered something about tonight’s adventure taking a little longer to prepare.”

Gandhi:“We’re just invading PseudoHeaven! I can not wait for my assassin to slit some of those PseudoChristians’ throats!”

Adolf:“Hey, you’re supposed to be a Pacifist!”

Gandhi:“Oh, PLUCK YOU! I can do whatever I want. It is just make believe!”

True Jesus:“Mark, stop smiling! We all know you are going to get some after the D&D game!”

Mark:“That is not what I am smiling about. I am just content. I have been this way ever since I found my Muse! I am worried about how long this thing I have with Madalyn can last, after all it has been a couple of centuries already!”

Satan:“I have seen it before. You are just another incurable romantic. You and Madalyn will always be like this” and he crosses fingers in front of his gaming buddies.
-----

PseudoChristians, you are nothing special. You just another group of intolerant buttheads! Just know that the Members of the Age of Reason have banded together to protect the innocent from any with your world domination aspirations. Think of it as a Pentagon of Protection composed of Atheism, Agnosticism, Satanism, The Zoroastrian-Judeo-Christian-Is lamic Tradition, and Paganism that will surround and protect the world at large from the likes of you!

I Believe AGNOSTICISM. Theist, Agnostic, or Atheist (i.e. I believe in some form of religion; I suspend belief in any form of religion; or I believe in no form of religion). Since it is impossible to prove any of the choices, you are equally correct in picking any one of them.-------- Science Happened-GET OVER IT!-------- I PLEDGE THIS ON MY SWORD OF REASONED THOUGHT AND EMPIRICAL SCIENCE SHALL BE MY SHIELD! I AM THE PALADIN REBORN FOR THE AGE OF REASON. ALWAYS REMEMBER MY STURDY YEW LONGBOW ON MY BACK WHICH I WILL USE TO PLUCK AWAY MY DETRACTORS FROM A DISTANCE. FRODO AND LUKE LIVE AND VAINAMOINEN IS AS WISE AS A MAN BORN OLD. THESE ARE MY PERSONAL TRUTHS!

Since: Sep 07

United States

#5581 Mar 2, 2008
Daughter of the King wrote:
...also man was created in Gods image the animals were not...
Raising two obvious questions:

#1) If Man was made in God's image, and chimps/gorillas/bonobos/orangs are clearly the same body type - then either God looks like a primate or the rest of the primates are also made in God's image.

#2) Since God made ADAM in God's image, and Adam had a penis, then ONLY those with a penis are made in God's image. Women are nothing more than vessels for Men. Fun religion you have there Rosa. You're basically a 2nd class citizen in your own fantasy life.
MPI

Jacksonville, FL

#5582 Mar 2, 2008
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Raising two obvious questions:
#1) If Man was made in God's image, and chimps/gorillas/bonobos/orangs are clearly the same body type - then either God looks like a primate or the rest of the primates are also made in God's image.
#2) Since God made ADAM in God's image, and Adam had a penis, then ONLY those with a penis are made in God's image. Women are nothing more than vessels for Men. Fun religion you have there Rosa. You're basically a 2nd class citizen in your own fantasy life.
And you clearly don't know anything substantive about the Bible.
Gillette

Rose Hill, IA

#5583 Mar 2, 2008
Ghost of lotzerm

Please stop spamming the thread with nonsense.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5584 Mar 2, 2008
Forum Cruiser wrote:
<quoted text>
This should be a part of science in general not just "ID scientists." In other words science should review all claims of supernatural instead of disregarding them out of hand.
Read "The Skeptic" and the "Skeptical Inquirer". Look up the Amazing Randi! Watch MythBusters!

Oh I see! You head is still stuck up there!
Skeptic

Mount Laurel, NJ

#5585 Mar 2, 2008
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Raising two obvious questions:
#1) If Man was made in God's image, and chimps/gorillas/bonobos/orangs are clearly the same body type - then either God looks like a primate or the rest of the primates are also made in God's image.
#2) Since God made ADAM in God's image, and Adam had a penis, then ONLY those with a penis are made in God's image. Women are nothing more than vessels for Men. Fun religion you have there Rosa. You're basically a 2nd class citizen in your own fantasy life.
Jackass! You questions are just a veil for your depravity. You are a vile person. You have no respect for anyone. Cretin! Indecent! Go crawl back under the evolutionary rock you crawled out from. Your family would be ashamed to see the way you conduct yourself, but then again you probably stopped caring about them long ago.
Skeptic

Cherry Hill, NJ

#5586 Mar 2, 2008
Ghost of lotzerm wrote:
<quoted text>
Read "The Skeptic" and the "Skeptical Inquirer". Look up the Amazing Randi! Watch MythBusters!
Oh I see! You head is still stuck up there!
Ghost of lotzerm wrote:
<quoted text>
Their very intolerant doctrine is a threat to us all. They are spreading the word that it is acceptable according to their bible to kill Pagans.
Skeptic wrote:
<quoted text>
Mark, are you now resorting to posting blatant lies as serious as this? Please produce one post on Topix by any of the "PsuedoChrsitians" that you mentioned, saying that "it is acceptable according to their bible to kill Pagans".
Skeptic wrote:
<quoted text>
There are laws in this country against killing anyone, except for self-defense.
You are a very sick man. Your mind has warped beyond your capacity to see reality clearly. I am afraid that you need to find someone that can keep you from further hurting yourself.
Get off of Topix and get some real help.
Maybe your "friends" will advise you to do the same.
Skeptic wrote:
<quoted text>Mark, I'm still waiting for you to produce some evidence that supports your apparent lie to your friends, the Pagans. Looks like you're a boldface liar, Mark. So what are you really up to?
Still waiting... You must be a boldface liar.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5587 Mar 2, 2008
Defrocked Skeptic wrote:
<quoted text>I think I have a certain fairness about me and I don't like what I see. I think that there's a lot of leaping going on around here with the scientific discoveries that seem to come through here everyday.
There's no definitive proof of anything close to what is being passed off as fact and I would have to wonder why.
I also see how politicized this issue has become and I don't like to see people being dishonest to gain on their opponents, for whatever reason.
If science proves that we evolved, that is fine with me, but don't come to me with anything less than absolute proof, unless you are willing to say that is the best you can do.
To be fair, you need to first pull your head out of your ass!

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