Withdrawal of Bible Literacy Project ...

Withdrawal of Bible Literacy Project Endorsement

There are 116 comments on the www.nationalledger.com story from May 29, 2008, titled Withdrawal of Bible Literacy Project Endorsement. In it, www.nationalledger.com reports that:

Alabama State Senator Scott Beason has turned out to be the principal opponent of a new textbook, the Bible and Its Influence, backed by liberals for schools which want to teach about the Bible.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.nationalledger.com.

Writing in Paradise

Honolulu, HI

#85 Jun 1, 2008
The Gay Pagan wrote:
I believe that she is unclear on self-loathing. It would seem she thinks it means merely disagreeing. I am referring to continuous outrageous statements that only serve to incite anger in others. I do not mind disagreement, and I enjoy debate, but not with someone who is so full of hate that they cannot debate, but rather bicker and complain. Oh well. Maybe someone else will want a real debate.<quoted text>
I'm not seeking to incite anything. If having your religion(s) compared to christianity angers you, perhaps you need to do some soul-searching to figure out why.

“All knowledge is worth having.”

Since: Feb 08

West Palm Beach

#86 Jun 2, 2008
hey you wrote:
<quoted text>You are very wrong, there are people, the vast majority believe in the word of God, with a capital G. Your so called religion is finite, believe in God, He loves you and will always be there for you. And whomever believes in Him will be in Paradise.
Actually, the "vast majority" of people is highly inaccurate. Based on a world census only about 33% of the worlds population believe in a Christian faith. Now, 75% of the population of the USA and Canada are Christian. So while the majority of people in the US and Canada are Christian, that is still not the vast majority of people. Do not make claims for which you haven't bothered to research. There are approximately 1,000 different Christian sects within the US and Canada that feel that their way is the ONLY way. So which is it? According to 999 yours is wrong and according to YOUR there are 999 Christian sects that are wrong.

Logically, the numbers should say that you are actually wrong because they are 999 and you are only one. Which would lead one to assume that they are all wrong since each claims its the only way and each will have 999 objections to that claim.

Now, don't you see how silly it all is? I mean really, when you boil it all down to the basics you will find that underneath it all we are all human beings. As such we are all the same whether we can't to claim one another or not. This constant bickering about whose religion is right and better is like so many children on a playground bickering about who is better, faster, strong etc. Its pointless and dividing. In a time when we need to come together in a unified and cohesive whole we would rather beat one another down over what we chose to believe in.

Its for this reason alone that I find myself so absolutly disgusted with the human race. Do you see animals fighting over religion? Hell no. Relgion is the creation of man. Divinity is the act of a Higher Power, whether you call him God or Lord and Lady or Allah or the Spagetti Monster its all the same.

When will people grow up and realize that each religion is nothing more than a different path to the same end?

Since: Feb 08

New York, NY

#87 Jun 2, 2008
Colonel Angus wrote:
The booze, ciggys and wild sex in your trailer park lifestyle havent caught up with you yet.
<quoted text>
What the heck are you talking about? Makes absolutely no sense.
1) I don't smoke or have wild sex. LOL
2) I live in a private house in NY
3) I have never even set foot in a trailer park.
Actually why am I even qualifying this with a response?!

“Not Christian, Not Atheist”

Since: Nov 07

United States

#88 Jun 2, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
If I'm preaching, tell me what my beliefs are. You must know, right? You claim I'm preaching them.
So let's see it. List my beliefs.
You believe only you have “THE TRUTH” and it is YOUR job to rescue anyone who does not believe YOUR TRUTH is the only reality of good in a world of evil.

You believe the world was created in 7/24 hour cycles. The Bible was written by the finger of God and Satan claims all humans on Earth that does not believe YOUR TRUTH.

Am I close?

BTW I do not read posts that are longer than four inches so I do not read all that numbered stuff.

“Not Christian, Not Atheist”

Since: Nov 07

United States

#89 Jun 2, 2008
WHOOPS! Wrong thread and wrong combatant

“Not Christian, Not Atheist”

Since: Nov 07

United States

#90 Jun 2, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
If I'm preaching, tell me what my beliefs are. You must know, right? You claim I'm preaching them.
So let's see it. List my beliefs.
You believe you are the only person on this thread that has a heart. The other people are just bigoted bullies, who’s only goal in life is to try to make your life style a source of guilt.

You believe your intellegence has raised your ability to think so high that you are smarter than to believe in fairy tales and outdated morals. In fact you are so smart that you, and only you, can correctly draw the line between good and evil.

Did I come close?
Writing in Paradise

Honolulu, HI

#91 Jun 3, 2008
Questions about allthings wrote:
<quoted text>
You believe only you have “THE TRUTH” and it is YOUR job to rescue anyone who does not believe YOUR TRUTH is the only reality of good in a world of evil.
You believe the world was created in 7/24 hour cycles. The Bible was written by the finger of God and Satan claims all humans on Earth that does not believe YOUR TRUTH.
Am I close?
BTW I do not read posts that are longer than four inches so I do not read all that numbered stuff.
Questions about allthings wrote:
<quoted text>
You believe you are the only person on this thread that has a heart. The other people are just bigoted bullies, who’s only goal in life is to try to make your life style a source of guilt.
You believe your intellegence has raised your ability to think so high that you are smarter than to believe in fairy tales and outdated morals. In fact you are so smart that you, and only you, can correctly draw the line between good and evil.
Did I come close?
You're just kinda fumbling around in the dark here, huh?

“Not Christian, Not Atheist”

Since: Nov 07

United States

#92 Jun 3, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
You're just kinda fumbling around in the dark here, huh?
Dark? No.
I just confused your posts with ‘hey you’. They might contain different versions of THE TRUTH but they are quite alike otherwise.
Writing in Paradise

Honolulu, HI

#93 Jun 3, 2008
Questions about allthings wrote:
<quoted text>
Dark? No.
I just confused your posts with ‘hey you’. They might contain different versions of THE TRUTH but they are quite alike otherwise.
If my posts preach "THE TRUTH", then you should be able to tell me what my beliefs are. So put your money where your mouth is.

Let's see what ya got. List my beliefs for the audience.

Since: Jan 08

Mestre, Venezia - Italy

#94 Jun 3, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
....
Let's see what ya got. List my beliefs for the audience.
I sincerely hope nobody will reply to feed your solipsistic protagonism mania. This debate is getting more and more useless. I think the audience is really boring about your beliefs. Thank you
Writing in Paradise

Honolulu, HI

#95 Jun 4, 2008
WiccaNews wrote:
<quoted text> I sincerely hope nobody will reply to feed your solipsistic protagonism mania. This debate is getting more and more useless. I think the audience is really boring about your beliefs. Thank you
All you're doing is proving me right. You can't accuse me of preaching my beliefs if you don't even know what my beliefs are.

Logic 101.

“Just a Koldunia”

Since: Jan 08

Kostroma

#96 Jun 4, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
All you're doing is proving me right. You can't accuse me of preaching my beliefs if you don't even know what my beliefs are.
Logic 101.
As someone who has defended you, when others called you a Troll I would just like to say that I feel it is well past the time for you to share your beliefs that you both allude too and hide behind.

That would possibly be called Humanities 101.
Writing in Paradise

Honolulu, HI

#97 Jun 4, 2008
Natalia Tikimirova wrote:
<quoted text>
As someone who has defended you, when others called you a Troll I would just like to say that I feel it is well past the time for you to share your beliefs that you both allude too and hide behind.
That would possibly be called Humanities 101.
What would be the point of that?

“Just a Koldunia”

Since: Jan 08

Kostroma

#98 Jun 5, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
What would be the point of that?
Well the point would be that you would be conversing as opposed to pontificating.

(3418)

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#103 Jun 5, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
It's because wicca is very similar to christianity, and is thus a good waypoint for those leaving the church but looking for something that at least feels somewhat familiar.
That accounts for a portion of the people who claim to be Wiccan. I suspect many of them bring some emotional/spiritual baggage left over from Christianity into it and morph the parts they like about Wicca back into another form of Christianity. As an established priestess with a different perspective, I wish they would just call it something else and be happy with themselves. But, I rather am in a mode right now where I choose to put my energy into productivity, rather then futility. I can speak my truth, and if it resonates with someone, great. If not, it is still my own.

A person does not need to be initiated into Wicca, but this would be one of the reasons that initiationd happen when the person is certain they want to committ to being a priest/ess, after being given a time to experience it first hand.

There is no way to prevent someone else from becoming Wiccan. A person may refuse to initiate men, but those persons would be very few. A male could easily find another presit/ess or group to initiate him. Or, they may simply be solitaire, or work with a group that does not employ initiation. There is more then one way to become a priest.

A wiccaning is only a blessing upon the child for the usual sorts of beneficial hopes parents have for their children, and is really just to celebrate in the joy. It is not a baptism into Wicca. Again, the Wiccan parents that would expect their child to be Wiccan from birth would be very few.

Ritual magic employs (or builds to) estatic states or forms of trance to "bring about changes in accordance with the will", a prayer is but a bit of poetry or free flow. It is a component of ritual, if part of the purpose of the ritual is to evoke a God/dess. If someone were to believe in a seperate force that only existed to automatically punish or reward human beings, then there would be no reason to attempt to do magic.

The application of the Eastern system of progressive reincarnation is slightly more in use among Wiccans then the other things you speak of. But there are still many of us who don't apply it. Why wait to heal, why wait to reach out and touch the stars? Why wait to accomplish magical adept? Why wait to face your baggage & fears; or descend to the Great Below, strip off your human trappings, and come back again? It is all possible now. The only thing holding people back are themselves.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#104 Jun 5, 2008
Writing in Paradise wrote:
<quoted text>
The wiccan belief that our actions return to us three-fold.
In the well known Rede of the Wiccae, the wording dealing with this law is thus:

"Mind the Threefold Law ye should -three times bad an three times good."

That's not really very elaborate or frankly spoken, it does not say anything about returning, only intensifying. But, the peom overall is speaking of magical practices. The idea that it was the impetus of the witch to return good with good is further evidence by the first printed allusion to the Threefold Law here;

"But mark well, when thou receivest good, so equally art bound to return good threefold."

However, people practicing magic have noted that magic released for a purpose has a way of amplifying and intensifying. The number three is only a symbolic number for it. I like three as the number, because I believe you do magic with your whole being- mind body, and soul.

And, lastly, Wikipedia does have a decent entry on the "Rule of Three" that actually says that not everybody interprets the same way, nor is it even used by all Wiccans.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#105 Jun 5, 2008
oops, that was an answer for whoever asked- not for WIP.
Writing in Paradise

Honolulu, HI

#106 Jun 5, 2008
Natalia Tikimirova wrote:
<quoted text>
Well the point would be that you would be conversing as opposed to pontificating.
It's a discussion of the similarities between wicca and christianity. My spiritual beliefs are immaterial to the discussion and would add nothing.
Writing in Paradise

Honolulu, HI

#107 Jun 5, 2008
CShine wrote:
<quoted text>
That accounts for a portion of the people who claim to be Wiccan. I suspect many of them bring some emotional/spiritual baggage left over from Christianity into it and morph the parts they like about Wicca back into another form of Christianity. As an established priestess with a different perspective, I wish they would just call it something else and be happy with themselves. But, I rather am in a mode right now where I choose to put my energy into productivity, rather then futility. I can speak my truth, and if it resonates with someone, great. If not, it is still my own.
That's a funny rationale from a member of a religion that claims individuality and no dogma, isn't it? How can someone be a "true wiccan" if "true wiccan" has no standard meaning? To me this sounds like the "true christian" argument I hear all the time on christian forums.
CShine wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no way to prevent someone else from becoming Wiccan.
There's no way to prevent someone from becoming a christian either.
CShine wrote:
<quoted text>
A wiccaning is only a blessing upon the child for the usual sorts of beneficial hopes parents have for their children, and is really just to celebrate in the joy. It is not a baptism into Wicca. Again, the Wiccan parents that would expect their child to be Wiccan from birth would be very few.
The demand that a child remains with a religion doesn't have anything to do with the purpose of a baptism. A baptism is a blessing on the child.
CShine wrote:
<quoted text>
Ritual magic employs (or builds to) estatic states or forms of trance to "bring about changes in accordance with the will", a prayer is but a bit of poetry or free flow.
I'm not a newbie. You can't fool me with this kind of stuff. Lots of ritual magick requires no trance at all and lots does. Lots of prayer does require trance and lots doesn't.
CShine wrote:
<quoted text>
If someone were to believe in a seperate force that only existed to automatically punish or reward human beings, then there would be no reason to attempt to do magic.
You mean like karma? Many, many wiccans believe in karma.
CShine wrote:
<quoted text>
The application of the Eastern system of progressive reincarnation is slightly more in use among Wiccans then the other things you speak of. But there are still many of us who don't apply it.
But even amongst those of you who say you don't (assuming you believe in reincarnation), I find significant traces of it anyway. The very human need for revenge and justice makes its way into your religion same as most others.
CShine wrote:
<quoted text>
Why wait to heal, why wait to reach out and touch the stars? Why wait to accomplish magical adept? Why wait to face your baggage & fears; or descend to the Great Below, strip off your human trappings, and come back again? It is all possible now. The only thing holding people back are themselves.
By "Great Below", are you referring to the dystopian realm of Ereshkigal?

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

#108 Jun 5, 2008
Dogma deals with matters of faith. I am not talking about faith. I am talking about actions. And having a definition of what something is, is not dogmatic either. If someone is playing music that doesn’t sound like bluegrass, then it’s not bluegrass. If someone is playing music that sounds like bluegrass, many listeners will say it is bluegrass and be happy. Musicians might discuss among themselves what constitutes traditional bluegrass; what music that is new that could still be considered bluegrass; and if new music growing out of the bluegrass movement, but has other influences should still be considered bluegrass, or should have bluegrass in the name. If a band that plays bluegrass, then starts putting drums in their music and their fans still call it bluegrass, nobody’s gonna get their panties in a bunch.
Also, in order for the set of precepts, concepts or belief system of a religion to be dogmatic, it must be authoritative, unalterable, and unquestionable.

I cannot see into the hearts & minds of people. If they are doing actions that constitute being a Wiccan priest/ess in the Wiccan path, then I call that taste like Wiccan. This is also my opinion and I am not going to put up the fisticuffs or drag someone off to Wiccan jail if they disagree. Again, I know what Wicca is for me. I know what is it for the Wiccans around me and I have a good handle on the traditional intent. I have a good idea where I and many other Wiccans have added deeper insight and more facets to what Wicca is now, on the core base of what it is. I can see where things were one way during other era’s and where that sort of thing has relaxed- or expanded now along with society’s understanding of things.
Figuring it out is really not all that different then musicians figuring out their own genre (when they have one). A genre can grow and even evolve over time and still be that genre. Any sufficiently intelligent person can discern when people’s insights have evolved organically as a result of practicing the spiritual system, as opposed to someone just imposing a new meaning on something.

Why need be a reason to prevent people from becoming a Christian?

The ritual magic in Wicca almost always employs an estatic state or trance. I am aware that there are some forms of prayer that can induce a trance (but from what I know of Christianity, they rarely take advantage of this), and that even some Christians get hoppy during choir and can reach an estatic state. Good for them if they do, but I understand it is not your typical Sunday morning Baptist kind of thing. I didn’t know we needed to explain every generalization and account for any possible variations here, since, as you note, you're not a newbie.

Most Christians just say their prayer and go about their business. In great times of need, they might actually raise a little energy. But they generally don’t make into a chant or mantra or tonal vibrational sort of thing. I think that is pretty common knowledge, even to me.

Believing in the possibility of multiple lives is mutually exclusive from believing in karma or that the reason for reincarnation is to be punished or rewarded. If reincarnation truly happens, then it may be for other reasons. My use of the word “progressive” reincarnation was in reference to your idea that many Wiccans believe in reincarnation for punishment or, as you put it, revenge or reward reasons. Because many of us feel like there is evidence (empirically) of the existence of past lives does not mean we believe it is for the reasons that eastern doctrines of reincarnation and Karma give. Or, specifically, that you cite, i.e. reward & punishment. If your finding traces of it, then I hope (in my opinion as one person) they learn to ease up on the human shame & guilt thing.

Dystopian seems an odd adjective for it (as I am only familiar with the literary use of it), but yes, Ereshkigal’s realm- or, at least, her part of it.

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