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“FED UP WITH TOPIX”

Since: Apr 09

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#144 Jul 10, 2011
guest

Toronto, Canada

#145 Aug 22, 2012
Jesus Christ is indeed and unarguably the Founder of Christianity. He not only fulfilled the prophecy but offers an entirely new covenant observed by Christians to this day.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#146 Aug 23, 2012
guest wrote:
Jesus Christ is indeed and unarguably the Founder of Christianity. He not only fulfilled the prophecy but offers an entirely new covenant observed by Christians to this day.
-----

I have nothing against a Christian covenant, as long as it was established by a non-Jew or no longer a Jew, as in the case of Paul, who, according to Acts 11:26 founded Chrstianity in the city of Antioch, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. But to pick up a Jew and claim that he established an entirely new covenant with Christians, is IMHO, nothing but promotion of the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Jesus himself never had anything to do with Christianity.

Ben
Rebekah

Albuquerque, NM

#148 Jul 13, 2013
BAC wrote:
Ashkenazi Jews in Europe and the USA are "white" (this is what I am -- though the Ashkenaz have similar DNA to middle eastern non-Jews, and have different DNA from caucasians, Ashkenaz are still considered "white")-- Yehoshua (Jesus), however, was a first century A.D. middle eastern, 100% Semitic Jew, so he probably looked like a person we'd consider today to be "Arab-looking," if you will.
Who cares?? Oh, wait. A racist cares...is that who you are?

All you're doing is perpetuating racism with your conjectures. Enough already with the I'm white, he's black, he's orange, he's green...sheesh! White isn't even a race...it's a color...like from a crayola. Thanks to the govmt. everybody is categorized. Oh how they love to keep us divided.

Since: Dec 09

Calgary, Canada

#149 Jul 20, 2013
PAD wrote:
Would I venture to say that there are Messianic Jews on this thread? If so, than I would like to dialogue in the future, have some questions that you might answer with shedding light on certain issues of Christianity.However I would like to converse with a Messianic Jewish brother or sister in Yeshua if possible. So far most of these threads have strong traditional Jews who hate Messianics, and consider them Christian, therefore no longer being Jewish.Hello out there!
.
I'm a messianic got if that will do.

Since: Dec 09

Calgary, Canada

#150 Jul 20, 2013
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
-----
I have nothing against a Christian covenant, as long as it was established by a non-Jew or no longer a Jew, as in the case of Paul, who, according to Acts 11:26 founded Chrstianity in the city of Antioch, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. But to pick up a Jew and claim that he established an entirely new covenant with Christians, is IMHO, nothing but promotion of the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Jesus himself never had anything to do with Christianity.
Ben
.
The covenant established with all peoples was instituted by G-d himself according to Jer 31:31, Is 25:6, Gen 49:10, DT 32:43, and many others which predict that the nations would serve G-d.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#151 Aug 17, 2013
MESSIANIC114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
The covenant established with all peoples was instituted by G-d himself according to Jer 31:31, Is 25:6, Gen 49:10, DT 32:43, and many others which predict that the nations would serve G-d.
------

I think you ought to focus a little harder on what you read. Jer. 31:31 says more than clear that the New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. When were all the peoples of the world called the House of Israel and the House of Judah? Isa. 25:6 yes, all peoples but only according to Isaiah 56:1-8. Gen.49:10 is about Shiloh the event that caused the split of the Tribes in Israel. That's when Shiloh came and Judah lost the hegemony over ten of the Tribes.(I Kings 11:29-31) The nations
indeed would serve God but only according to Zech.8:23. Through conversion to Judaism.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#152 Aug 20, 2013
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
------
I think you ought to focus a little harder on what you read. Jer. 31:31 says more than clear that the New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. When were all the peoples of the world called the House of Israel and the House of Judah? Isa. 25:6 yes, all peoples but only according to Isaiah 56:1-8. Gen.49:10 is about Shiloh the event that caused the split of the Tribes in Israel. That's when Shiloh came and Judah lost the hegemony over ten of the Tribes.(I Kings 11:29-31) The nations
indeed would serve God but only according to Zech.8:23. Through conversion to Judaism.
.
You know the answer to this...the House of Israel is absorbed into the nations.
.
Zec 8:23 says nothing about conversion. Also once converted they become Israel not Goy.
.
Conclusion:
1. You have admitted that the new covenant is established with all peoples, so you have refuted yourself.
2. You have no scriptural evidence to support your claim that people need to convert.
3. You contradict the Noahide movement which says you can serve G-d without conversion (which I think is bogus)
4. You contradict Judaism which says once converted you are a child of Abraham and thus a Jew.
5. Summationl: 3 contradictions and one unsupported claim.
4.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#153 Aug 26, 2013
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
You know the answer to this...the House of Israel is absorbed into the nations.
.
Zec 8:23 says nothing about conversion. Also once converted they become Israel not Goy.
.
Conclusion:
1. You have admitted that the new covenant is established with all peoples, so you have refuted yourself.
2. You have no scriptural evidence to support your claim that people need to convert.
3. You contradict the Noahide movement which says you can serve G-d without conversion (which I think is bogus)
4. You contradict Judaism which says once converted you are a child of Abraham and thus a Jew.
5. Summationl: 3 contradictions and one unsupported claim.
4.
-------

The House of Israel was indeed absorbed into the nations all right, but according to Isaiah 48:1, the New Israel aka House of Jacob is made up of the stock of Judah. That's the one people Ezekiel is talking about in Eze.37:22 which was formed with the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon. The tribal system was over. Read the quote please.

Zech.8:23 indeed does not say anything about conversion but Isaiah 56:1-8 does. No one has to convert but if any one wishes to join God's Covenant with His People, he or she must convert to Judaism.

Conclusion"
1. I have never admitted that the New Covenant was established with all peoples. I could not contradict Jeremiah 31:31 which says with the House of Israel and Judah as one People.(Ezek.37:22)
2. Nobody needs to convert. According to Isa.56:1-8 if one wishes to join God's Covenant with His People he or she must convert. Read the quote please.
3. I never contradicted the Noahide Covenant. That's the Covenant upon the Gentiles. They don't need to convert but if they wish to join God's Covenant with His People,they must. This is already the 3rd time I say the same thing but you seem to understand everything backward.
4. That's not contradiction. That's true. You find it hard to understand because of your Christian preconceived notions.
5. No contradictions and all claims supported.
messianic1114

Calgary, Canada

#154 Sep 11, 2013
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
-------
The House of Israel was indeed absorbed into the nations all right, but according to Isaiah 48:1, the New Israel aka House of Jacob is made up of the stock of Judah. That's the one people Ezekiel is talking about in Eze.37:22 which was formed with the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon. The tribal system was over. Read the quote please.
Zech.8:23 indeed does not say anything about conversion but Isaiah 56:1-8 does. No one has to convert but if any one wishes to join God's Covenant with His People, he or she must convert to Judaism.
Conclusion"
1. I have never admitted that the New Covenant was established with all peoples. I could not contradict Jeremiah 31:31 which says with the House of Israel and Judah as one People.(Ezek.37:22)
2. Nobody needs to convert. According to Isa.56:1-8 if one wishes to join God's Covenant with His People he or she must convert. Read the quote please.
3. I never contradicted the Noahide Covenant. That's the Covenant upon the Gentiles. They don't need to convert but if they wish to join God's Covenant with His People,they must. This is already the 3rd time I say the same thing but you seem to understand everything backward.
4. That's not contradiction. That's true. You find it hard to understand because of your Christian preconceived notions.
5. No contradictions and all claims supported.
.
1. You admit that G-d has established a covenant with all peoples when you cite Is 56:1:8 which is clearly the Goy.
2. There is nothing in this passage that mentions conversion. They have joined themselves to the Lord, not to Judah.
3. The only allusion to Judah are verses 10-12.
4. The Jews returning from Babylon were from every tribe. Even today there are Jews who know which tribe they are from.
5. We have the biblical record that Judah absorbed members of other tribes: 1 Ch 4:24-42, Ezr 8:18, 2Ch 11:12, 2Ch 11:16
6. We have the NT record of tribes in Judah: Lk 2:36
7. We have rabbinic testimony of the same: In an apocryphal midrash () the following passage occurs: "In the twelfth year of Hezekiah, Sennacherib took Judah and Simeon captive.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13...
8. We have apocryphal writing also testifying to this: Tob 1:1, Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
.
Conclusion, no claim supported, just asserted by reading into the text things that aren't there.
.
I could assert a similiar thing:
Assertion:
1. the house of Judah are Messianic Jews
2. the house of Israel are Messianic Goys
3. In one body (Messiah's) are the two houses under one new covenant.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#155 Sep 12, 2013
messianic1114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
1. You admit that G-d has established a covenant with all peoples when you cite Is 56:1:8 which is clearly the Goy.
2. There is nothing in this passage that mentions conversion. They have joined themselves to the Lord, not to Judah.
3. The only allusion to Judah are verses 10-12.
4. The Jews returning from Babylon were from every tribe. Even today there are Jews who know which tribe they are from.
5. We have the biblical record that Judah absorbed members of other tribes: 1 Ch 4:24-42, Ezr 8:18, 2Ch 11:12, 2Ch 11:16
6. We have the NT record of tribes in Judah: Lk 2:36
7. We have rabbinic testimony of the same: In an apocryphal midrash () the following passage occurs: "In the twelfth year of Hezekiah, Sennacherib took Judah and Simeon captive.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13...
8. We have apocryphal writing also testifying to this: Tob 1:1, Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
.
Conclusion, no claim supported, just asserted by reading into the text things that aren't there.
.
I could assert a similiar thing:
Assertion:
1. the house of Judah are Messianic Jews
2. the house of Israel are Messianic Goys
3. In one body (Messiah's) are the two houses under one new covenant.
------

The House of Israel does not exist anymore. The House of Judah is formed by the Jews and Gentiles who have converted to Judaism according to Isaiah 56:1-8. The "Messianic Jews" are Gentiles trying to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.
Ben Masada

Lod, Israel

#156 Sep 27, 2013
The Test of Isaiah 8:20

Here is a test that every one who is involved or take upon him or herself to preach the Truth should take in order not to be found preaching an evil message.

Isaiah 8:20 - "To the Law and the Prophets" if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no truth in them." If you have not noticed before, there is something very interesting about this test of Isaiah. He speaks of two words "Law and Prophets" then says "according to this word" as if he had mentioned only one.

Judaism was what Isaiah meant by "this word." In fact that's what "the Law and the Testimony" means: Judaism. Do those who are involved with teaching or discussing spiritual truth speak according to Judaism besides the Jews? Obviously not.

Jesus seems to have taken that test of Isaiah 8:20 and was proved an expert at the Truth as we have his own testimony in Matthew 5:17-19. His apostles took the same test and scored the passing test. Paul came next and listened to their gospel and was taken aback
with the impression that they were preaching a bout a different Jesus and took them as false apostles.

The conclusion is that as I have recommended above we all should take that test to make sure we are not teaching empty words of nonsense.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#157 Jun 11, 2014
Ben Masada wrote:
The Test of Isaiah 8:20
Here is a test that every one who is involved or take upon him or herself to preach the Truth should take in order not to be found preaching an evil message.
Isaiah 8:20 - "To the Law and the Prophets" if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no truth in them." If you have not noticed before, there is something very interesting about this test of Isaiah. He speaks of two words "Law and Prophets" then says "according to this word" as if he had mentioned only one.
Judaism was what Isaiah meant by "this word." In fact that's what "the Law and the Testimony" means: Judaism. Do those who are involved with teaching or discussing spiritual truth speak according to Judaism besides the Jews? Obviously not.
Jesus seems to have taken that test of Isaiah 8:20 and was proved an expert at the Truth as we have his own testimony in Matthew 5:17-19. His apostles took the same test and scored the passing test. Paul came next and listened to their gospel and was taken aback
with the impression that they were preaching a bout a different Jesus and took them as false apostles.
The conclusion is that as I have recommended above we all should take that test to make sure we are not teaching empty words of nonsense.
.
How about this test? G-d said if you forsake my ways I will scatter you among the heathen. If Judaism was "the law and the prophets" as you have asserted, then G-d is unrighteous in regard to the golut! The only Judaisms that claim to be from the last temple era are the rabbinics and the messianics, which is disputed by the rabbinics, so if they are right they are the ones who were around to lead Israel astray and are still leading them astray.
Gabriella

Rio Rancho, NM

#158 Jul 5, 2014
Absurd topic...all because an Islamic individual who doesn't even accept Christ as the Messiah in the first place.

Another absurdity is the discussion of who is "white" and who isn't. If you believe in God Almighty through Christ, then you believe that we come from one set of parents...Adam and Eve. Through Adam and Eve God Almighty created all DNA.

According to scripture, a person that is from another nation is not considered another “race”. For someone to accept that there are different “races” they would have to deny scripture and they would have to believe that there are human beings on this earth that didn’t descend from Adam and Eve. All human beings descended from Adam and Eve, therefore it doesn't matter if you're Jew or white...it doesn't matter if you're not Jew or white.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#159 Jul 6, 2014
Gabriella wrote:
Absurd topic...all because an Islamic individual who doesn't even accept Christ as the Messiah in the first place.
Another absurdity is the discussion of who is "white" and who isn't. If you believe in God Almighty through Christ, then you believe that we come from one set of parents...Adam and Eve. Through Adam and Eve God Almighty created all DNA.
According to scripture, a person that is from another nation is not considered another “race”. For someone to accept that there are different “races” they would have to deny scripture and they would have to believe that there are human beings on this earth that didn’t descend from Adam and Eve. All human beings descended from Adam and Eve, therefore it doesn't matter if you're Jew or white...it doesn't matter if you're not Jew or white.
Yes, I agree with you; what matters is that you teach the Truth of God according to the Law and the Prophets. Isaiah could not have been talking nonsense. Jesus did and so do all the Jews.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#160 Jul 28, 2014
PAD wrote:
Would I venture to say that there are Messianic Jews on this thread? If so, than I would like to dialogue in the future, have some questions that you might answer with shedding light on certain issues of Christianity.However I would like to converse with a Messianic Jewish brother or sister in Yeshua if possible. So far most of these threads have strong traditional Jews who hate Messianics, and consider them Christian, therefore no longer being Jewish.Hello out there!
.
I'm a Messianic Goy, if that will do.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#161 Jul 29, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
I'm a Messianic Goy, if that will do.
-------

I am a Messianic Jew but because I believe that the Messiah is in the collective of Israel the Jewish People. I don't find any logic at all in the individual Messiah. You know, the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever.(Jer. 31:35-37)

If you have ever read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People to save His anointed one." That's what Messiah is, the anointed one of the Lord. God's People, the Messiah. Therefore, according to my point of view about the Messiah, all Jews who are loyal to Judaism are Messianic Jews.

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