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yon

Miami, FL

#1 Jan 2, 2011
Are there any such animals?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#2 Jan 2, 2011
yon wrote:
Are there any such animals?
Nope. They are in the same boat as the Messianics.
yon

Miami, FL

#3 Jan 2, 2011
It sounds like an oxymoron. But I know one who claims to be agnostic. And I've known quite a few others who keep the customs and holidays like x-tians, but aren't very religious otherwise. I ask cause I've been thinking about how Messianics fit on the continuum. Of course they are flanked by Orthodox Jews(non-pork eaters)who reject everything Messianic, on the one side, and on the other by x-tians(pork eaters) who reject Torah as being binding upon them but claim it's the Word of G-d. And among Messianics - you have some Jews, some non-Jews who keep certain Jewish customs. Then you have some who like Orthodox don't reverence Divine Names. Then you have some who do reverence Divine Names and keep certain rabbinic customs - and are wannabe Jews. Then there are the Divine Name only groups and some trinitarians. I'm sort of in the middle of all of that - very wary of groups.

Astounding.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#4 Jan 3, 2011
You didn't ask about agnostics. You asked about atheists. Agnostics are hard to categorize because there are varying degrees of faith amongst them. There is no constant.
yon

Miami, FL

#5 Jan 3, 2011
How one can claim to be of Jewish heritage and be either agnostic or atheist - boggles my mind. The Latin equivalent for agnostic is ignoramus. An atheist is just a pure idiot - so it's one step above. It makes about as much sense as a 7th day Sabbath keeping, pork eating x-tian. And I don't if there are any of those out there. But there probably are.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#6 Jan 3, 2011
yon wrote:
How one can claim to be of Jewish heritage and be either agnostic or atheist - boggles my mind. The Latin equivalent for agnostic is ignoramus. An atheist is just a pure idiot - so it's one step above. It makes about as much sense as a 7th day Sabbath keeping, pork eating x-tian. And I don't if there are any of those out there. But there probably are.
I think that you need to define what you mean by agnostic. As I said previously, there is varying degrees of faith amongst agnostics.

Some people of my father's generation became a type of agnostic upon returning home from WWII. They believed in a divine being who created man but also believed that that divine being had little to do with daily life thereafter, especially life as they had witnessed during the war.

Then there are agnostics that don't know whether to believe in a divine being because they are looking for something to support belief in that divine being.

So define your term.
yon

Miami, FL

#7 Jan 3, 2011
I'm referring to Jews in particular. Those who come from x-tianism are more understandable since they never had faith in the Tanakh to begin with - but Jews obviously did and is one major reason they didn't disappear into history along with the 10 tribes - but to deny or even doubt the existence of a creator, by anyone - as Paul said, they are "without excuse" - for it is evidence by the things made. Romans 1:20 We now live at a time when atheism, agnosticism, witchcraft and outright devil worship has become somewhat fashionable - especially amongst those who are "gender challenged." It is pure willfulness and hatred of righteousness and the creator. How many times does Elohim have to say something before people will believe him? As I read in one translation, it spoke of "willful ignorance." Yes war and other terrible things can shake a persons faith - but it can also turn them into saints - as I believe Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl talked about.

http://www.henrymakow.com/homosexuality_from_...

Since: Jul 10

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#8 Jan 3, 2011
yon wrote:
I'm referring to Jews in particular. Those who come from x-tianism are more understandable since they never had faith in the Tanakh to begin with - but Jews obviously did and is one major reason they didn't disappear into history along with the 10 tribes - but to deny or even doubt the existence of a creator, by anyone -
So, you are limiting your discussion of agnostics to those who question whether there is/was a G-d/Creator. Those that the scholars refer to as agnositc-atheists as opposed to agnostic-theists who believe in a G-d/Creator but are unsure of what happened after creation.

It is my position that belief in the Shema is a requirement of being a Jew. Therefore, atheists and agnostic-atheists cannot be Jewish.

Agnostic-theists are a different question.
yon

Miami, FL

#9 Jan 3, 2011
Don't want to have a debate on who's a better agnostic.
Eric

Villa Park, IL

#10 Jan 3, 2011
yon wrote:
Don't want to have a debate on who's a better agnostic.
What's wrong with agnostic-theists? They believe in G-d. They are believe in free will and predeterminism, from what I understand. You're the one that interspersed agnostics. The original topic was atheists.
yon

Miami, FL

#11 Jan 3, 2011
I didn't start the topic on agnostics - only mentioned it in passing.
yon

Miami, FL

#12 Jan 3, 2011
It's just that seem to be one step above idiot.
yon

Miami, FL

#13 Jan 3, 2011
they seem(I have dyslexia)
Eric

Villa Park, IL

#14 Jan 3, 2011
Not much logic here. Just a lot of name calling.
yon

Miami, FL

#15 Jan 3, 2011
I just wanted to know if there are people, who given the history and restoration from Egypt, Babylon and Rome - and yet cannot understand - no matter how many years they went to college. And who when they read Isaiah 53 - go blank in the head.
yon

Miami, FL

#16 Jan 3, 2011
that's not name calling
Eric

Villa Park, IL

#17 Jan 3, 2011
yon wrote:
I just wanted to know if there are people, who given the history and restoration from Egypt, Babylon and Rome - and yet cannot understand - no matter how many years they went to college. And who when they read Isaiah 53 - go blank in the head.
What does this have to do with whether atheists can be considered Jews? Atheists probably wouldn't read Isaiah, or if they did, wouldn't care what it said.
Eric

Villa Park, IL

#18 Jan 3, 2011
yon wrote:
that's not name calling
"It just that [they] seem one step above idiot."

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#19 Apr 22, 2011
There are no Atheist Jews, considering that we were the ones who brought the knowledge of the Monotheistic God to the world. If it were not for us, the world would perhaps still be in the cave worshiping the stone and the fire, or perhaps a block of wood in the shape of a demon.
Ben
yon

Miami, FL

#20 Apr 23, 2011
Romans 3

1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.

3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify Godís faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar

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