Lutheran bishop warns about withholding donatons

The presiding bishop of the nation's largest Lutheran denomination warns that withholding financial support to protest a recent gay clergy vote would be "devastating" to the church.

[Lux et Veritas]

Apostates like Hanson, having thumbed their noses at the Bible and the majority of ELCA members, are now whining about the calamitous loss of funding they'll be facing soon. How piteous.

Always in membership decline, the ELCA has been losing members most rapidly since 2002: http://archive.elca.org/news/table.html ; it lost 76,000 members in 2008, and its budget shrank to $67 million this year, down from $81 million in 2005.

A 2005 ELCA report found that only 22 percent of ELCA members favored blessing gay unions or ordaining practicing homosexuals, and 57 percent opposed the changes.

Hosanna Lutheran of Lakeville (6,084 members; largest of all ELCA churches in operating budget at $6.9 million) will be one whose dollars Bishop Hanson will sorely miss. Its pastor wrote to the St. Paul area bishop:

"We strongly disagree with the decisions made.
We do not feel that the actions taken represent the beliefs and desires of the majority of the ELCA, but rather a small fraction of the denomination, politically well organized and driven by personal agenda. We feel these actions are biblically indefensible. Now, we are forced to deal with the aftermath. Many are asking ‘when are we leaving the ELCA?’ Part of my response has been ‘they have left us.’ It feels like we have been abandoned. But we are not alone.

The leadership at Hosanna! is putting into place a “Plan for Decision and Discernment.� Ours will not be a knee-jerk reaction and I suspect these events and opportunities will unfold over the next 6-8 months. This letter is a first step. It will be posted on our website and read to the congregation this coming weekend. Second, I will also be speaking to the congregation about our relationship with the ELCA this weekend. Third, I will be speaking next week with the leadership team of The Lighthouse Covenant. We will affirm common ground, talk about next steps, and consider a mid-winter Lighthouse Covenant Conference to encourage and care for other pastors and congregations that are hurting, angry, or confused. Fourth, we invite you to meet with our Vision Board sometime this fall. We meet the third Tuesday evening each month. Fifth, we will schedule a town hall forum for Hosanna! members to attend to voice their concerns. Finally, we will explore affiliation with numerous groups, both within and outside the ELCA: CORE, LCMC, ARC, Word Alone, and others.

Finally, I need to tell you that we are going to suspend immediately all financial support to the Saint Paul Area Synod and the ELCA. Our giving beyond Hosanna! will remain strong, but we cannot give our benevolence dollars to a denomination that has moved in a direction so contrary to some of our core beliefs."

[Screamin O]

Read the bible; several verses in scripture state that gays are deviant and wicked.

[Hey Now]

Screamin O wrote:

Read the bible; several verses in scripture state that gays are deviant and wicked.

It does indeed! What's really 'Devastating' is that some lutherans support this deviant behavior!

[Lux et Veritas]

Ron wrote:

It serves them right.
Out of touch leadership think they can dictate anti-Biblical policies and have no response from the faithful?

They've already had a response from a more authoritative source. A hand infinitely larger than yours or mine created a new and particularly appropriate logo for the ELCA on the very afternoon of its Bible-abrogating vote:

http://www.desiringgod.org/media/images/blog/...

[soo many retards]

Screamin O wrote:

Read the bible; several verses in scripture state that gays are deviant and wicked.

So you are a supporter of incest and plural marriage.. Please be careful not wonder too far from your trailer you might fall off the earth

[Lux et Veritas]

Someone else sees Hanson's pathetic posturing for what it is:

"The Rev. Mark Chavez, director of Lutheran CORE, said the gay clergy vote was the devastating event — "a departure from God's clear word." He called Hanson's letter "an attempt to shift the responsibility of this devastation and crisis within the ELCA away from the people who presided over it and are responsible for it."

"Lutheran CORE says 1,200 people have registered for this weekend's conference, which organizers say will start the process of forming an "alternative church fellowship" for traditionalists within the ELCA."

How heartening: 1,200 people. That's a larger number than the total of ELCA convention delegates (and much larger than the 550-odd revisionists who voted to jettison the Bible).

Sow the wind, Bishop Hanson, and reap the whirlwind. That's in the same Bible your denomination just relegated to its synodical junk heap.

[Whoever]

According to the Word of the Lord, if you support evil you become partaker thereof.

[Sarah D]

Whoever wrote:

According to the Word of the Lord, if you support evil you become partaker thereof.

Just so I understand where you're coming from...since the Bible supports polygamy then you support polygamy?

Since the Bible supports slavery then you support slavery?

Since the Bible supports incest, you support incest?

Since the Bible supports stoning people to death for adultery, you support stoning people to death for adultery?

Since the Bible forbids eating pork, you don't eat pork?

Since the Bible commands women to isolate themselves when they are menstruating, you insist that the women of your family isolate themselves when they are menstruating?

Why is it that people so insist that homosexuality is bad because they find verses in the Bible that SEEM to support this yet when the Bible has verses forbidding the eating of pork or supporting slavery, incest, polygamy and isolating women, these same people conveniently ignore those verses?

If you want to take the Bible literally then by all means that's your right.

But if you are going to take the Bible literally then take ALL of it literally. Otherwise you are nothing but a hypocrite.

[Tank Murdoch]

Sarah D wrote:

<quoted text>
Just so I understand where you're coming from...since the Bible supports polygamy then you support polygamy?
Since the Bible supports slavery then you support slavery?
Since the Bible supports incest, you support incest?
Since the Bible supports stoning people to death for adultery, you support stoning people to death for adultery?
Since the Bible forbids eating pork, you don't eat pork?
Since the Bible commands women to isolate themselves when they are menstruating, you insist that the women of your family isolate themselves when they are menstruating?
Why is it that people so insist that homosexuality is bad because they find verses in the Bible that SEEM to support this yet when the Bible has verses forbidding the eating of pork or supporting slavery, incest, polygamy and isolating women, these same people conveniently ignore those verses?
If you want to take the Bible literally then by all means that's your right.
But if you are going to take the Bible literally then take ALL of it literally. Otherwise you are nothing but a hypocrite.

God has told us in scripture that gays are deviant and wicked in many verses. It is an absolute.

What you provided is nonsense.

Don't try to justify your sick gay behavior anymore than a rapist would try.

[human too]

Have you actually read the Bible, Sarah? I mean, all of it? Get back to us when you have. Then we can talk.

[RalphB]

Tank Murdoch wrote:

<quoted text>
God has told us in scripture that gays are deviant and wicked in many verses. It is an absolute.
What you provided is nonsense.
Don't try to justify your sick gay behavior anymore than a rapist would try.

Keeping in mind that I do not lie with a man as I would with a woman, please point out to me where in your bible it says that my same-sex marriage is sinful. Oh, and while you are at it, point out to me any verse you can find that says your religious beliefs should be instilled in my government's laws. I will wait. But remember, I am 64 years old, so I don't have a lot of years for you to find this.

[Tank Murdoch]

RalphB wrote:

<quoted text>
please point out to me where in your bible it says that my same-sex marriage is sinful..

http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html

While the Bible does address homosexuality, it does not explicitly mention gay marriage/same-sex marriage. It is clear, however, that the Bible condemns homosexuality as an immoral and unnatural sin.

Leviticus 18:22 identifies homosexual sex as an abomination, a detestable sin.

Romans 1:26-27 declares homosexual desires and actions to be shameful, unnatural, lustful, and indecent.

First Corinthians 6:9 states that homosexuals are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Since both homosexual desires and actions are condemned in the Bible, it is clear that homosexuals “marrying” is not God’s will, and would be, in fact, sinful

[TaxTaxTax]

Finally a ray of sunshine (sanity) in a very dark chapter of the ELCA. May God bless these people with the wisdom and strength to leave and take their money with them. Christ said "If you are not for me, you are against me" Do the hard thing and leave the ELCA now while your souls are intact.

[RalphB]

Tank Murdoch wrote:

<quoted text>
http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html
While the Bible does address homosexuality, it does not explicitly mention gay marriage/same-sex marriage. It is clear, however, that the Bible condemns homosexuality as an immoral and unnatural sin.
Leviticus 18:22 identifies homosexual sex as an abomination, a detestable sin.
Romans 1:26-27 declares homosexual desires and actions to be shameful, unnatural, lustful, and indecent.
First Corinthians 6:9 states that homosexuals are unrighteous and will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Since both homosexual desires and actions are condemned in the Bible, it is clear that homosexuals “marrying” is not God’s will, and would be, in fact, sinful

As I said before, I do not lie with men as I would with women. Therefore my sexual acts are not sinful. And even if they were, which they are not, who are you so-called "christians" to try to inflict your religious beliefs upon non-believers through our national and state laws? Your "god" does not govern the states or the country. Your "god" has no place in secular law. And if she did, would you not believe that their should be a law against adultery? In fact, do you not believe that divorce should be illegal, since your bible teaches it is a sin? And why is your "god" the chosen god? Why not the "god" of Islam? And why shouldn't THEIR laws be supreme over yours?

[Wheelchair Charley]

Points out the seperation of state and church...you can't refuse to pay taxes, unless your a senator or sec of treasury, but you can choose not to contribute to your church when you don't agree with their policies.

[Tank Murdoch]

RalphB wrote:

<quoted text>
As I said before, I do not lie with men as I would with women. Therefore my sexual acts are not sinful. And even if they were, which they are not, who are you so-called "christians" to try to inflict your religious beliefs upon non-believers through our national and state laws?

Being 90% of americans are religious and are founding fathers based this country on christianity.

You always have the right to ignore the bible and live life under your terms and slef servin morals and not Gods.

[Gay Mom]

Screamin O wrote:

Read the bible; several verses in scripture state that gays are deviant and wicked.

Only in the mis-translated version. Try reading it in the original language, with the original meaning and conotations of the words.

[Gay Mom]

Tank Murdoch wrote:

<quoted text>
Being 90% of americans are religious and are founding fathers based this country on christianity.
You always have the right to ignore the bible and live life under your terms and slef servin morals and not Gods.

Correction, about 45% of Americans belong to a church, and the founding fathers were a mixture of Christians, Deists and Jewish men. Our Constitution specifially provides for NO STATE RELIGION to be allowed. The words "under God" were added to the Pledge in the 1940's. Any other corrections needed, feel free to ask.

[Gay Mom]

Instead of thoughtfully considering the ideas and interpretations behind the new decision, these Luthrans would rather "take their ball and go home". Pity.

[Spider]

Gay Mom wrote:

Instead of thoughtfully considering the ideas and interpretations behind the new decision, these Luthrans would rather "take their ball and go home". Pity.

Its smoking out the bad Lutherans. Only the WWJD Lutherans will remain.

The Church will be a wonderful place.