Pope to Protestants: Faith is not som...

Pope to Protestants: Faith is not something that can be negotiated

There are 100 comments on the www.romereports.com story from Sep 23, 2011, titled Pope to Protestants: Faith is not something that can be negotiated. In it, www.romereports.com reports that:

Before taking on the trip to Germany, the pope said, he was asked to make so called religious compromises or 'ecumenical gifts' that could bring Lutherans and Catholics closer. The pope declined, saying this type of negotiation, reflects a misunderstanding between the meanings of faith and ecumenism.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.romereports.com.

Dan USA

Muskego, WI

#21 Oct 15, 2011
Sorry to say the Pope was dead wrong in saying "Faith is something that cannot be negotiated." All Word and all doctrins can and should be changed, to weed out magic and visionaryism. The diverse peoples of the world are no less than you or I.
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#22 Oct 15, 2011
I am happy that tone on this thread has already started showing signs of improvement.

There are people coming forwards aying that they were sorry for the things they said earleir.

It is a good sign, and we should kep it up.

Pope is after all a respected leaders of a large clan of Christians, we can have differneces, but we should not abuse his personality.

There is nothing wrong is someone is against RC as such and they can state their differnces, but it should be done in a civlized way.

“WOOF !”

Since: Jul 11

Libertarian

#23 Oct 15, 2011
Dan USA wrote:
Sorry to say the Pope was dead wrong in saying "Faith is something that cannot be negotiated." All Word and all doctrins can and should be changed, to weed out magic and visionaryism. The diverse peoples of the world are no less than you or I.
The Pope is dead wrong in just about EVERYTHING he says.(Don't blame me. I'm just quoting Martin Luther).

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#25 Oct 16, 2011
PedophilePope wrote:
What is civilized about r*ping little children?
The Catholics continue to hide and protect their pedophiles, and continue to put children at risk in their selfish desire to put the prestige of their church above the health and safety of those who put trust in them.
If you are sincere in your desire for people to act "in a civilized way" (rather than merely using that as rhetoric), start with the Catholic Church.
But you are not sincere, are you?
The Catholics protecting the guilty priests are simply afraid to admit that their religion has gone awry. Remember, they've been taught since they were little kids that the RC church is continually protected by the Holy Spirit, and can therefore never be wrong. Of course we've since found this to be glaringly untrue, but old habits die hard and many (or most) adult Catholics have it deeply ingrained within themselves that God would "never allow anyone in the clergy to do wrong". Meanwhile, with that attitude, the sexual abuse goes on and on....
Old Pom

Australia

#26 Oct 16, 2011
MUQ wrote:
The issue of faith verses faith and deeds was settled by Saint Paul Himself, why it took almost 1500 years for Trent Council to decide it?
It is interesting to see most of the people on this thread (It seems that they belong to Protestant group) to criticise the Pope, Vicar of Christ and leader of 1.5 Billion Ctholics in the world.
Why you people do not learn manners and etiquetts?
Manners and etiquette? That would eliminate a significant number of posters and all trolls.
Nice but boring.

Christianity has been a mess almost from the start, with the various groups each putting their own interpretation on the teachings. Concentrating on the peripheral whilst ignoring the main message.
Constantine tried to bring these together, along with some other pagan groups, at the council of Nicaea in AD 325.
People being what they, those who should never lead got to the top and corruption spoiled it.

We will have to wait till the end of time to find the truth.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#27 Oct 17, 2011
Old Pom wrote:
Manners and etiquette? That would eliminate a significant number of posters and all trolls.
Nice but boring.

Christianity has been a mess almost from the start, with the various groups each putting their own interpretation on the teachings. Concentrating on the peripheral whilst ignoring the main message.

Constantine tried to bring these together, along with some other pagan groups, at the council of Nicaea in AD 325.

People being what they, those who should never lead got to the top and corruption spoiled it.

We will have to wait till the end of time to find the truth.
Ans.

A. Manners and Etiquettes:

I know that being polite and following etiquette would eliminate many people and it might even be a little boring.

I do not mind a few “entertainers” on the thread either, but when majority becomes like that, then it becomes like a fish market and “free for all”.

Then no one can post a descent message and it gets overwhelmed by the garbage messages.

B. Christianity and Sects:

To say the truth, Jesus had a very short time period for his mission and he could not organize his followers into any tight knit society.

After his quick and sudden demise, what you said about sects being formed in Christianity and infighting between the sects is very true.

The main reason for division of Christian into sects was because of St. Paul. He was the first man, who created “his party” within the Christian community.

You might be aware of the “Jerusalem Council” held between Paul and Chosen Disciples of Jesus.

It was this council that created two types of Christians, Jewish Christians and Non Jewish Christians.

And then these main communities got divided into many sub divisions and each claiming to be “Custodian of the Truth” and accusing others of heresy and Hypocrisy.

They had no agreed list of scripture books and each followed what his Leaders told them.

C. Council of Nicea in 325 CE and its fruits:

You are correct when you say that Constantine the Great tried to unify these different Christian Sects into one Homogeneous Group.

We cannot doubt his sincerity or his intentions, but it proved disastrous to the Christianity in the Short and in the Long run.

First of all it introduced “King” as an arbitrator between religious matter. And King denotes the Power of State, so after 325 CE any one opposing “Official Christianity” became an enemy of state and faced persecution.

And then this Council Created an Official Church, with Pope as its head and he became the “Sole Interpreter” of Scripture.

These two factors played havoc with the life of Christians in later centuries and led to all those killing and tortures. Only God knows the real numbers of those killed or burned at stake and persecuted. Their numbers certainly in many tens of millions.

To kill and burn an heretic was now a “religious duty” of every one who beloved in Jesus (Read Pope or a Particular Church in the place of Jesus).

And then as a reaction to this misuse of religion by Popes and Church, bulk of Christian world changed into Atheists and Materialist and people with no religion.

All these are the fruits of the “Council of Nicea” which allowed a “King” to be a party for religious disputes.

(Contd.)
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#28 Oct 17, 2011
C. Should we wait for End of Time to know the truth:

You have stated correctly that we shall know the truth only at the End of Time.

But I want to ask is that reasonable and logical to wait till the end of time to know the truth?

And what we will gain by waiting till the end of time and what that truth will help us.

If we have to find the truth during our life time and act on it, we should start searching for it.

And let me tell you “Every one who sincerely searches for the truth finds it”!!

Because Jesus said “One who knocks the door, it is opened for him”….“One who seeks, finds it”.

But the reality is people are not interested in seeking the truth, and if they seek and find , they lack the courage to accept it.

In the end I thank you for a very beautiful and thought provoking post.

The Oracle

UK

#29 Oct 17, 2011
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
The Catholics protecting the guilty priests are simply afraid to admit that their religion has gone awry. Remember, they've been taught since they were little kids that the RC church is continually protected by the Holy Spirit, and can therefore never be wrong. Of course we've since found this to be glaringly untrue, but old habits die hard and many (or most) adult Catholics have it deeply ingrained within themselves that God would "never allow anyone in the clergy to do wrong". Meanwhile, with that attitude, the sexual abuse goes on and on....

Respect and credit to you for this post.

This is without a doubt the most accurate description of the Roman Catholic psyche ever to appear in this forum.
Dan USA

Muskego, WI

#30 Oct 17, 2011
Some brilliant commentaries here. And it's delightful to see some of you know the actual history of the faith. And yes I (a Lutheran) have to agree, St Paul created his own political party, to suit his personal visionaryism.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#31 Oct 18, 2011
MUQ wrote:
I am happy that tone on this thread has already started showing signs of improvement.
There are people coming forwards aying that they were sorry for the things they said earleir.
It is a good sign, and we should kep it up.
Pope is after all a respected leaders of a large clan of Christians, we can have differneces, but we should not abuse his personality.
There is nothing wrong is someone is against RC as such and they can state their differnces, but it should be done in a civilized way.
That's a VERY good and sensible post. It's when Cruz & his compatriots are here that the fighting starts, and yes, I fight them back. I think they cannot be reasoned with. They think it's their way or no way, and they cannot be reasoned with.
Pax et Bonum

Atwater, OH

#32 Oct 18, 2011
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
The Catholics protecting the guilty priests are simply afraid to admit that their religion has gone awry. Remember, they've been taught since they were little kids that the RC church is continually protected by the Holy Spirit, and can therefore never be wrong. Of course we've since found this to be glaringly untrue, but old habits die hard and many (or most) adult Catholics have it deeply ingrained within themselves that God would "never allow anyone in the clergy to do wrong". Meanwhile, with that attitude, the sexual abuse goes on and on....
It is not the religion that has gone awry...it is the institution of the priesthood and the hierarchy that has gone awry. The teachings of the Church are firm and protected by the Holy Spirit. It is not that every action of a priest, bishop or pope is protected by the Holy Spirit...especially if that priest, bishop or pope is actively in a state of sin. If a priest is abusing a child his condemnation should be swift and under secular and canon law. If a bishop is protecting a priest abuser his condemnation is also under secular and canon law. This goes for a pope also. The laity of the Catholic Church are not stupid or ignorant of what has gone on. Groups such as SNAP, Call to Action and Future Church to name a few are openly working to make the past abuse as much as possible transparent and hopefully not to be repeated.
ABEL

Gainesville, FL

#33 Oct 18, 2011
SFer wrote:
Funny, he takes an entirely different approach with dissident Anglicans.
And anytime one defects to Catholicism, in the score-keeping Catholic media it's very much seen as "Catholics 1/Protestants 0".
THAT SOUND LIKE THE POPE JUST GAVE PROTESTANTS A SECOND ADMONITION!http://batsonthebel fry.blogspot.com/2011/10/presi dent-pope-washing-machine-borg .html
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#34 Oct 18, 2011
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a VERY good and sensible post. It's when Cruz & his compatriots are here that the fighting starts, and yes, I fight them back. I think they cannot be reasoned with. They think it's their way or no way, and they cannot be reasoned with.
If some one is unreasonable and shouts insults at you, the "more cilvilized" way is to keep quite and do not answer his post, unless he chooses civil language.

If you fight back with tit for tat comments, the evil will keep on multiplying and that is what we usually see on these threads.

Someone throws a loose remark and then every one comes up with their own rejoinders in the same language and it is all mayhem.

I am not against a certian sarcasm and funny comments and laughs thrown about, It should not be a dull discussions, but there should be no malice.

In that way, we shall have lively discussions, with lots of fun, rather than displaying our hate and passion to hurt personality of any one.

That is what I have to say, on your beautiful post.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#35 Oct 18, 2011
Pax et Bonum wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not the religion that has gone awry...it is the institution of the priesthood and the hierarchy that has gone awry. The teachings of the Church are firm and protected by the Holy Spirit. It is not that every action of a priest, bishop or pope is protected by the Holy Spirit...especially if that priest, bishop or pope is actively in a state of sin. If a priest is abusing a child his condemnation should be swift and under secular and canon law. If a bishop is protecting a priest abuser his condemnation is also under secular and canon law. This goes for a pope also. The laity of the Catholic Church are not stupid or ignorant of what has gone on. Groups such as SNAP, Call to Action and Future Church to name a few are openly working to make the past abuse as much as possible transparent and hopefully not to be repeated.
Can you tell me WHAT are teachings of Church and HOW they are protected by the Holy Spirit?

I can very well see the teachings of Church changing thru out Christian History....what Holy Spirit protected and what it did not protect, how can we define.

Dan USA

Muskego, WI

#36 Oct 19, 2011
Enough of these illusionist visionaries and their magic. It's time for a major "Reformation" into reality. It's pathetic that so many of we Christians can't follow the "Word," but instead cling to the sorcery aspect of our faith.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#37 Oct 19, 2011
Dan USA wrote:
Enough of these illusionist visionaries and their magic. It's time for a major "Reformation" into reality. It's pathetic that so many of we Christians can't follow the "Word," but instead cling to the sorcery aspect of our faith.
You have spoken a very true thing.

In reality the age of 'Miracles and Signs" ended more than 1400 years ago.

Bot most of people did not notice it and clinged to the 'Miracles and Signs" type of religion and many still do.

And what is starnge that when "The Word" was actually walking on this earth and showing those "Miracles and signs", most people did not believe in him.

It is a strange, strange world after all!!
Dan USA

Muskego, WI

#38 Oct 19, 2011
As a historian an anthropologist, I see nothing strange about the last 12,00 years of the world, except that it's no longer legal to burn heritics at the stake (in most countries). But the illusions, visionaryism and cult magic remains unchanged throughout all religions. And the frightened unlearned masses cannot cope without magic and mortal manufacture of divine spiritualism. We humans know only for sure that we are the supreme of all living specis, and therefor subjected to the test of a higer power. And beyond that we know nothing, except killing each other over thousands of year old issues.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#39 Oct 19, 2011
Pax et Bonum wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not the religion that has gone awry...it is the institution of the priesthood and the hierarchy that has gone awry. The teachings of the Church are firm and protected by the Holy Spirit. It is not that every action of a priest, bishop or pope is protected by the Holy Spirit...especially if that priest, bishop or pope is actively in a state of sin. If a priest is abusing a child his condemnation should be swift and under secular and canon law. If a bishop is protecting a priest abuser his condemnation is also under secular and canon law. This goes for a pope also. The laity of the Catholic Church are not stupid or ignorant of what has gone on. Groups such as SNAP, Call to Action and Future Church to name a few are openly working to make the past abuse as much as possible transparent and hopefully not to be repeated.
Hi Pax, I hope you're right in that action will be taken and the clergy needs to be scrutinized a lot more closely. I agree, the guilt lies with the perpetrators and not within the religion itself. I should have worded it differently, thanks.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#40 Oct 19, 2011
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
If some one is unreasonable and shouts insults at you, the "more cilvilized" way is to keep quite and do not answer his post, unless he chooses civil language.
If you fight back with tit for tat comments, the evil will keep on multiplying and that is what we usually see on these threads.
Someone throws a loose remark and then every one comes up with their own rejoinders in the same language and it is all mayhem.
I am not against a certian sarcasm and funny comments and laughs thrown about, It should not be a dull discussions, but there should be no malice.
In that way, we shall have lively discussions, with lots of fun, rather than displaying our hate and passion to hurt personality of any one.
That is what I have to say, on your beautiful post.
Thank you - and you're right!! Hugs :)
Pax et Bonum

Atwater, OH

#41 Oct 19, 2011
The Oracle wrote:
<quoted text>
Respect and credit to you for this post.
This is without a doubt the most accurate description of the Roman Catholic psyche ever to appear in this forum.
How do you know this as acccurate? As a practicing Roman Catholic I found nothing "accurate" in it about my "psyche".

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