Joseph Smith's marriages to other men...
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“Let us reason together.”

Since: Mar 08

Nampa, Idaho USA

#1 May 5, 2008
I see Joseph Smith's sealings to other mens wives as platonic in nature. I doubt the 11 women thought it proper to live with him in mortality, or have his biological children children. Doctrine and Covenants 132 is online to read and must be brought to bear on understanding Joseph Smith's polyandry. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132 D.&C.132:41-44,61 teaches having sex with a woman vowed to another man was adultury.

Verses 41-44 does allow a non-virgin woman to be divorced and married to another man. But only if the husband were guilty of adultury.(Matt.19)

All of the 11 women went back to live with the existing husbands. That would be adultury for the woman unless divorced from Joseph smith. The revelation treats as adultury a woman having sexual relations with more than one married sexual partner.

I doubt Joseph Smith would have inserted the clear anti-polyandry teaching into the revelation if thats not what he taught those 11 women, and the key husbands. He would have exposed his contradictory behavior to the men. Plus the revelation reputes to be the resurrected Jesus giving the words, and the wives and husbands would have known if Jesus earlier words were contradicted by the 1843 anti-polyandry adultury revelation.

“Let us reason together.”

Since: Mar 08

Nampa, Idaho USA

#2 May 5, 2008
There is a way D.&C.132 would allow Joseph Smith marrying them, or them having his children. And it can be done in a way that did not break the existing vows. And that was for them to make an arrangement they considered not going into effect until the afterlife. When the living husband died the wife was released from her vows so could be Joseph smith's in the eternity. Todd Compton admitted with the Patty Session's sealing there was no sexuality in the marriage. The only sexuality he feels existed was with her husband David Sessions.(ISL pg.179

How could he get children in a non-sexual marriage? After Joseph Smith's death Lucy Walker married Heber Kimball. With the understanding any biological children they had were Joseph's children in the resurrection.(ISL, pg.467) Letting other men beget your kids in a non-adulturous way by women vowed to other men. At one time LDS Temple sealings had women married to the dead prophet. One LDS Presidents Heber J. Grant had been called a son of the prophet Joseph Smith by LDS scholar Brigham H. Roberts.(Differences that Persist by Elbert A. Smith, Centerplace Library)

“Let us reason together.”

Since: Mar 08

Nampa, Idaho USA

#3 May 5, 2008
I will discuss three cases of polyandry and Joseph Smith to start. I agree with Todd Compton on the Patty Sessions being a platonic marriage of Joseph smith with no sexuality. That marriage harmonizes with D.&C.132.

I disagree with his belief Sylvia Sessions daughter Josephine Was Joseph smith's biological daughter. So i also see that marriage fitting easily with the Anti-polyandry parts of D.&C.132. When Sylvia told her daughter she "was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith" she interpreted that to mean he was her biological parent. Instead of hearing that i think Sylvia mean she was his daughter not by biology, but by virtue of the sealing. I see the statement Heber J. Grant, and Lucy Walker statements as allowing for my platonic parentage interpretation.(ISL, pg.183)

With Zina Huntington "Nothing specific is known about sexuality in their marriage, though judging from smith's other marriages,sexuality was probably included. We do know zina and henry continued living as husband and wife, though Henry was often absent on missions."(ISL, pg.82) I disagree with him and think sexuality was not included. I dislike Todd Compton speculating about sex between Joseph Smith and married women based on what may, or may not have happened in other of his plural marriages. I see nothing in Joseph smiths sealing to her that need indict her or Joseph Smith of adultury in getting her to break her vows to Henry.

“Let us reason together.”

Since: Mar 08

Nampa, Idaho USA

#4 May 11, 2008
Lets keep this post going.

“Let us reason together.”

Since: Mar 08

Nampa, Idaho USA

#5 May 11, 2008
I see the polyandry complaint as used frequently to prove how bad Joseph Smiths behavior was towards 11 married women. I was just re-studying these 11 cases the other day. I always try and double-check my arguments. I doubt the 11 women would have put up with bad behavior from Joseph Smith in mortality.

Does anybody have any proof these 11 women cheated on their husbands with Joseph Smith?

“Let us reason together.”

Since: Mar 08

Nampa, Idaho USA

#6 May 14, 2008
Even if Joseph Smith was a crud were these 11 women also of poor character? If i were a married woman and a married man had hit on me i would be offended? And if he claimed God gave a revelation saying i would be shared in mortality by two men i would be quite offended. If i felt my position, glory rewards might be effected i might participate, but only if my marriage to Joseph Smith was pretended. But add immoral sex to the mix and i could not see any moral woman as putting up with that. Respect the 11 women even if you cannot respect Joseph Smith.

As i noticed D.&C. 132 seems to take into account such feelings polyandry was immoral, or Joseph Smith would not have inserted it into the revelation. Such clear anti-polyandry clauses would run the risk of exposing his contradictory ideas about polyandry.(132:41-44,61)
taskboy

Scottsdale, AZ

#7 May 29, 2008
******You claim the marriage were merely platonic.
A number of Joseph Smith plural wives confirmed sexual relations as part of their marriage to him in affidavits recorded in Utah--(some in relation to the Temple Lot Case etc.) Given the reasons stated for plural marriage - to raised up seed - why would Smith polyandrous marriages be any different?
Helen Mar Kimball stated that it was only after she married Smith as a 14 year old that she learned that it was more than just a ceremony.
taskboy

Scottsdale, AZ

#8 May 29, 2008
*******
You said: I doubt Joseph Smith would have inserted the clear anti-polyandry teaching into the revelation if thats not what he taught those 11 women, and the key husbands. He would have exposed his contradictory behavior to the men.

*******

Nearly all of Joseph Smith's polyandrous marriages were before the Revelation was public in 1843. These verses were known to neither the inner circle of Nauvoo polygamy or, arguably, Joseph Smith himself.

The prophet was contradictory is his 'public' stance on the polygamy when compared with his private actions. He publicly rejected the idea on numerous occasions while practicing it in secret. More telling, Joseph Smith married many of his wives while lying to Emma that he had discontinued the practice. Did God approve of this?

Joseph Smith's words are often not reliable (or truthful) in understanding his actions regarding polygamy.
taskboy

Scottsdale, AZ

#9 May 29, 2008
*******
Letting other men beget your kids in a non-adulturous way by women vowed to other men.

*******

The current Church recognizes the obvious issues and offensive nature of this doctrine/approach. The Church handbook of instructions from at least 1975 on, rejects the idea that a man biological children can be sealed to another man their mother may be sealed to. So who's wrong? Joseph Smith or the current leaders. I'm sure you will claim that it's just further light and knowledge.....
taskboy

Scottsdale, AZ

#10 May 29, 2008
One revise. When I said above "the Revelation was public in 1843" I meant "when it was made know to the inner circle" or "written down for Emma" etc. I realize it was in no way really public until Utah.
taskboy

Scottsdale, AZ

#11 May 29, 2008
*******
You said: I doubt Joseph Smith would have inserted the clear anti-polyandry teaching into the revelation if thats not what he taught those 11 women, and the key husbands. He would have exposed his contradictory behavior to the men.

*******

Nearly all of Joseph Smith's polyandrous marriages were before the Revelation was public in 1843. These verses were known to neither the inner circle of Nauvoo polygamy or, arguably, Joseph Smith himself.

The prophet was contradictory is his 'public' stance on the polygamy when compared with his private actions. He publicly rejected the idea on numerous occasions while practicing it in secret. More telling, Joseph Smith married many of his wives while lying to Emma that he had discontinued the practice. Did God approve of this?

Joseph Smith's words are often not reliable (or truthful) in understanding his actions regarding polygamy.
taskboy

Scottsdale, AZ

#12 May 29, 2008
*******
Does anybody have any proof these 11 women cheated on their husbands with Joseph Smith?
*******

They married/were sealed to him. I think there is strong evidence that sex was involved, but even if there wasn't these women became Joseph Smith's wives.

That's being unfaithful wouldn't you say?
fed up with the mess

United States

#13 May 29, 2008
Joseph Smith is a nasty pervert that should be kept behind bars forever just like manson.
taskboy

Scottsdale, AZ

#14 May 29, 2008
*******

I doubt the 11 women would have put up with bad behavior from Joseph Smith in mortality.

If i felt my position, glory rewards might be effected i might participate, but only if my marriage to Joseph Smith was pretended. But add immoral sex to the mix and i could not see any moral woman as putting up with that. Respect the 11 women even if you cannot respect Joseph Smith.

*******

These were faithful believing women. Zina Huntington Jacobs Smith Young even before joining Mormonism was known to be extremely zealous in religious pursuits. Even with that she initially rejected Smith's proposal marrying Henry instead. Only after the prophet persisted did she (and Henry) relent. So it seems that she did have serious reservations about the marriage. She said "I never anticipated again to be looked upon as an honerable woman by those I dearly loved...” If it were just a "pretend marriage, as you say, why would she have that concern?

Her belief that the men promoting polyandry were speaking for God was so strong that she went against the mores of the day. She not only married Joseph Smith for eternity but after the prophets death she left Henry, was sealed to Brigham Young for time and openly lived with him, bearing children, as I recall.
Nicki

Spring, TX

#15 Jul 2, 2008
Well, time to whip up an angel food cake. How do these people past and present find so much time for fornication?

Nicki

Spring, TX

#16 Jul 20, 2008
Anybody? Thoughts? You would think you would be in constant motion with 40 or 50 women taking care of almost 500 kids. Who would have the energy at the end of the day to have paw paw groping you? Yick! Is there some age where the women can say they've had enough? I felt sorry for Sally who had the grown daughter but also a 6 year old very disabled Down's Syndrome child with other problems.
Sacrimoni

Spring, TX

#17 Jul 24, 2008
Might as well give up. The brain washing techniques have been very effective. It's like trying to explain to a Jehovah's Witness that a Christmas card or Birthday card is not going to hurt their child. I had a friend almost die because they wouldn't accept blood. Eventually, they deleted every friend who they couldn't convert to Jehovah's Witness. What I don't like are the religions that insist you recruit everyone or ditch them. Are the Mormons like that? Is that the reason for the baptism of the dead, all in one family and one faith.
Truth

Rexburg, ID

#18 Jul 28, 2008
No mormons aren't like the JW's at all. There might be a few that are a little extreme but the majority that I have met have been very friendly to everyone of all faiths. Most of them are really good people. I am interested in looking at the Temple Lot case affadavits that were written by the plural wives of Joseph Smith does anyone know where I could see them?

“Don't like it? TOUGH!”

Since: Mar 08

Oakley, CA

#19 Jul 28, 2008
Sacrimoni wrote:
Might as well give up. The brain washing techniques have been very effective. It's like trying to explain to a Jehovah's Witness that a Christmas card or Birthday card is not going to hurt their child. I had a friend almost die because they wouldn't accept blood. Eventually, they deleted every friend who they couldn't convert to Jehovah's Witness. What I don't like are the religions that insist you recruit everyone or ditch them. Are the Mormons like that? Is that the reason for the baptism of the dead, all in one family and one faith.
let me 2nd that and tell you...in the military we have several people who are NOT LDS...it doesn't keep me from having friends..that would be rather arrogant and pretentious...

2nd of all...we give blood generously..we have several of our young men holding BLOOD DRIVES in order to get their Boy Scout Eagle Awards.

My grandfather denied the LDS faith 5 times before accepting it when taught the 6th time...did the LDS faith delete him? obviously not...whatever concerns he may have had got resolved and he was baptized by his own son who had just returned from a mission in Brazil. My grandfather remained loyal and active till he died 15 years later.
Linda Bennington

Columbus, OH

#20 Aug 3, 2008
On the topic of Polandry, I think that everyone understands that baptism out side of the hands of the priesthood is not a valid ordinance. All marriages were seen as the same not valid marriages. The first marriages were of no authority from God. So I can see how they were at ease with the concept that there was no marriage until you were married by the authority of the priesthood. Sexuality was "in theory" only with the righteous marriage. Also, the families were honored to be sealed to these great men.

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