Vatican bans Mormons from scanning records

[tupapi]

"the work we do for the dead is dependant on both God's judgement AND the recipenant's acceptance"

Have you had any dead people turn you down yet??

"As to the growing strength of the LDS church: only Heavenly Father knows the end and whether it will overcome the doctrines and practices of the Roman Church. I presume to think it will. Nothing is impossibe with the Lord"

There you go again thinking that only Mormons are right and that God will help you against the Catholic church. Be and let be.

[not ashamed]

American Citizen wrote:

I believe the headline has a typo error. It should read, morons, not mormons.

well, thats original.
How long did it take to think of that one? And people call us simple-minded.

[tequilamac]

not ashamed wrote:

<quoted text>well, thats original.
How long did it take to think of that one? And people call us simple-minded.

Oh nonsense. I for one would object entirely to anyone who called a mormon simple minded. they are actually very complicated minded, with such a convoluted reasoning system it functions like a twisted slinky on stairs.
Mormons- moronic? maybe. Simple minded? Absolutely not.

[tequilamac]

Quiet_Dave_2005 wrote:

Tupapi,
We never list the deceased as part of our active membership, although they are most likely active in the spirit world. We only list membership in this present mortal life. Geneaology and the work we do for the dead is dependant on both God's judgement AND the recipenant's acceptance; we won't know of the results prior to the day of judgement.
Tex,
I expect that the FLDS will dry up and blow away eventually, but please don't consider us the same entity in the mean time; we are no more alike than Catholics and Christian Scientists.
As to the growing strength of the LDS church: only Heavenly Father knows the end and whether it will overcome the doctrines and practices of the Roman Church. I presume to think it will. Nothing is impossibe with the Lord.

Why in the world would anyone want to "overcome" the doctrines of Roman Catholicism? Oh, I forgot- the anti christ promised to do so.
Never mind.

[saviorself]

tupapi wrote:

"the work we do for the dead is dependant on both God's judgement AND the recipenant's acceptance"
Have you had any dead people turn you down yet??
"As to the growing strength of the LDS church: only Heavenly Father knows the end and whether it will overcome the doctrines and practices of the Roman Church. I presume to think it will. Nothing is impossibe with the Lord"
There you go again thinking that only Mormons are right and that God will help you against the Catholic church. Be and let be.

Mormons don't HAVE to "be and let be" when it comes to their thology. NOBODY in America does. Muslims are ALLOWED to think that their faith is God's favorite faith. Jews are ALLOWED to think that their faith is God's favorite faith. Catholics are ALLOWED to think that their faith is God's favorite faith. It's called FREEDOM OF RELIGION. You either BELIEVE in it, or you DON'T. None of them are allowed to ATTACK you over it, but they are allowed to THINK whatever they want. Stop being a theological Facist.

[saviorself]

or at least be honest that you don't want them to be able to practice their faith in the way that they wish.

[tequilamac]

saviorself wrote:

or at least be honest that you don't want them to be able to practice their faith in the way that they wish.

Well I will be honest enough to admit that when religion is involved the Constitution means very little to me. Personally, I wish Mormons could not practice their religion as I see very little sense in letting people commit serious sin over and over and multiply the serious sin.
But I accept we have this constitution. The constitution also says now that abortion is legal. But I see no sense in not trying to frustrate the prochoice movement either.
How is that for honesty?

[saviorself]

tequilamac wrote:

<quoted text>
Well I will be honest enough to admit that when religion is involved the Constitution means very little to me. Personally, I wish Mormons could not practice their religion as I see very little sense in letting people commit serious sin over and over and multiply the serious sin.
But I accept we have this constitution. The constitution also says now that abortion is legal. But I see no sense in not trying to frustrate the prochoice movement either.
How is that for honesty?

I never mentioned the Constitution at all. I mentioned religious freedom specifically, and stated a fact. You either BELIEVE in it, or you do NOT believe in it. Obviously you do NOT believe in it, I just vstly, vastly prefer you SAY that as opposed to dancing around the issue. And no, the CONSTITUTION does NOT say "abortion is legal." In fact, the word abortion is mentioned nowhere in the Constituion at all. To a TRULY RIGHTEOUS CATHOLIC, a mormon is damned to hell ALONG WITH A PROTESTANT OR MUSLIM. To a truly RIGHTEOUS Muslim, a Catholic is damned to hell with a Jew or a Protestant. To a truly RIGHTEOUS Southern Baptist, everyone is damned to hell except them.(I'm just kiding Baptists.) And so on, and so on. As I said, "I" believe in religious freedom, I accept that you do not, and do not demand that you change your point of view. I PREFER you to be as honest and truthful as you can be about it. "I do not believe that they should have the freedom to practice their beliefs this way because it is sinning in the eyes of (my) faith" Yet you accuse them of bigotry.

[tupapi]

saviorself wrote:

<quoted text>
I never mentioned the Constitution at all. I mentioned religious freedom specifically, and stated a fact. You either BELIEVE in it, or you do NOT believe in it. Obviously you do NOT believe in it, I just vstly, vastly prefer you SAY that as opposed to dancing around the issue. And no, the CONSTITUTION does NOT say "abortion is legal." In fact, the word abortion is mentioned nowhere in the Constituion at all. To a TRULY RIGHTEOUS CATHOLIC, a mormon is damned to hell ALONG WITH A PROTESTANT OR MUSLIM. To a truly RIGHTEOUS Muslim, a Catholic is damned to hell with a Jew or a Protestant. To a truly RIGHTEOUS Southern Baptist, everyone is damned to hell except them.(I'm just kiding Baptists.) And so on, and so on. As I said, "I" believe in religious freedom, I accept that you do not, and do not demand that you change your point of view. I PREFER you to be as honest and truthful as you can be about it. "I do not believe that they should have the freedom to practice their beliefs this way because it is sinning in the eyes of (my) faith" Yet you accuse them of bigotry.

You're incorrect. I don't recall EVER a catholic priest putting down or even talking about other religions. Few times mentioned as part of apologies for historic past abuses of the church to others such as Jews and Greek Orthodox. The catholic church even accepts most of the time baptism from other religions when people convert. I would substitute "truly righteous" for "misguided".

[tequilamac]

saviorself wrote:

<quoted text>
I never mentioned the Constitution at all. I mentioned religious freedom specifically, and stated a fact. You either BELIEVE in it, or you do NOT believe in it. Obviously you do NOT believe in it, I just vstly, vastly prefer you SAY that as opposed to dancing around the issue. And no, the CONSTITUTION does NOT say "abortion is legal." In fact, the word abortion is mentioned nowhere in the Constituion at all. To a TRULY RIGHTEOUS CATHOLIC, a mormon is damned to hell ALONG WITH A PROTESTANT OR MUSLIM. To a truly RIGHTEOUS Muslim, a Catholic is damned to hell with a Jew or a Protestant. To a truly RIGHTEOUS Southern Baptist, everyone is damned to hell except them.(I'm just kiding Baptists.) And so on, and so on. As I said, "I" believe in religious freedom, I accept that you do not, and do not demand that you change your point of view. I PREFER you to be as honest and truthful as you can be about it. "I do not believe that they should have the freedom to practice their beliefs this way because it is sinning in the eyes of (my) faith" Yet you accuse them of bigotry.

Honey I could care less about this diatribe. What I am saying is that I do not believe in their religions, I do not believe in encouraging their religions, I believe their religions are sinful, and I have accused no one of bigotry. Not at all.
What I don't buy is everyone running around with a your religions is okay and my religion is okay attitude because that basically means that no one believes anything at all.
And again I accused no one of bigotry. Is this the mormon thread? I accused them of being the anti christ. mormons are anti christs as they have an anti trinity. But no, I did not accuse them of bigotry.
So get a life or learn to read.

[American Citizen]

not ashamed wrote:

<quoted text>well, thats original.
How long did it take to think of that one? And people call us simple-minded.

Gosh, it's been years since normal people have called them that. Want to know what we call catholics? Bet not!

[not ashamed]

tequilamac wrote:

<quoted text>
Well I will be honest enough to admit that when religion is involved the Constitution means very little to me. Personally, I wish Mormons could not practice their religion as I see very little sense in letting people commit serious sin over and over and multiply the serious sin.
But I accept we have this constitution. The constitution also says now that abortion is legal. But I see no sense in not trying to frustrate the prochoice movement either.
How is that for honesty?

What serious sin do you feel we are commiting over and over again?
you wish we could not practice our religion, and you have a right to feel that way. However, what makes you feel this way?

[tequilamac]

tupapi wrote:

<quoted text>
You're incorrect. I don't recall EVER a catholic priest putting down or even talking about other religions. Few times mentioned as part of apologies for historic past abuses of the church to others such as Jews and Greek Orthodox. The catholic church even accepts most of the time baptism from other religions when people convert. I would substitute "truly righteous" for "misguided".

Not true. Another very serious misrepresentation of Catholicism. We do not accept most baptisms from other religions. In fact the list is very small of what is accepted. Lutheran,Anglican, Orthodox and maybe one more ONLY.
simply because MOST religions outside of these few do not worship a true Trinity therefore their baptisms are invalid. Totally invalid.
Please try to not misrepresent what Catholics teach. Most baptisms are NOT accepted and require renunciation of the prior faith and the work of satan completely before being properly baptised in the Trinity.

We just do not have a your religion is okay and our religion is okay attitude. No their religion is not okay- it is a problem, unless it is trinitarian. we will live in peace with other religions but no, we ABSOLUTELY do NOT accept them.

[tequilamac]

not ashamed wrote:

<quoted text>What serious sin do you feel we are commiting over and over again?
you wish we could not practice our religion, and you have a right to feel that way. However, what makes you feel this way?

Repeat myself again? Okay- you have an Anti Trinity. Anti Trinity=Anti Christ. Therefore the entire religion should be flushed down the toilet and eradicated. Because any religion with an anti trinity is going to be false from the bottom up and not repairable.
The mormon trinity stands in diametrically opposed to all Christian trinitarian religions.
So there is no hope for Mormonism as a religion, and no way to fix that which is corrupted from the beginning.

[not ashamed]

Thank you for your honest answer. Now lets address our beliefs in the mormon church. Yes we believe that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy spirit are three seperate and distinct beings making One Godhead.

This is not information we have gained from the Book of Mormon, this is directly from the bible.

For example, When Jesus Christ was baptized , God spoke from heaven saying This is my son in whom I am well pleased. Was Jesus talking to himself? of course not.

This is one of many examples found in the Bible.
I was raised in a baptist home and even as a young child the concept of God, Jesus, and the holy spirit being one in the same NEVER made sense to me. And their is plenty of evidence in the bible to support the mormon beliefs.

[tequilamac]

not ashamed wrote:

Thank you for your honest answer. Now lets address our beliefs in the mormon church. Yes we believe that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy spirit are three seperate and distinct beings making One Godhead.
This is not information we have gained from the Book of Mormon, this is directly from the bible.
For example, When Jesus Christ was baptized , God spoke from heaven saying This is my son in whom I am well pleased. Was Jesus talking to himself? of course not.
This is one of many examples found in the Bible.
I was raised in a baptist home and even as a young child the concept of God, Jesus, and the holy spirit being one in the same NEVER made sense to me. And their is plenty of evidence in the bible to support the mormon beliefs.

Good try and the usual Mormon answer. Unfortunately, you failed to address Adam and how he became God, didn't you? You also did not explain to our less than well versed in Mormonism friends who Jesus Christ actually is for a Mormon, now did you?
You also did not explain the Mormon concept of creation.
You did not explain what came first so to speak.
Because you as most Mormons know, those explanations reveal to anyone with a truly trinitarian God why Mormonism must be rejected immediately.
So I challenge you- explain your religion accurately for the people here- explain Adam and explain Christ and yes, you may use the teachings of Joseph Smith upon which most of this is based.
Which is of course why the Book of Mormon is necessary for a Mormon. too much of what is believed is the antithesis of what is in Scripture so two books are necessary rather than one.

[not ashamed]

tequilamac wrote:

<quoted text>
Good try and the usual Mormon answer. Unfortunately, you failed to address Adam and how he became God, didn't you? You also did not explain to our less than well versed in Mormonism friends who Jesus Christ actually is for a Mormon, now did you?
You also did not explain the Mormon concept of creation.
You did not explain what came first so to speak.
Because you as most Mormons know, those explanations reveal to anyone with a truly trinitarian God why Mormonism must be rejected immediately.
So I challenge you- explain your religion accurately for the people here- explain Adam and explain Christ and yes, you may use the teachings of Joseph Smith upon which most of this is based.
Which is of course why the Book of Mormon is necessary for a Mormon. too much of what is believed is the antithesis of what is in Scripture so two books are necessary rather than one.

You have spoken as though I have tried to decieve and nothing could be farther from the truth. I do not need to use the BOM to explain my answers.
Everyone knows who Adam is, He is our first earthly father. As for Christ, he came to take upon himself the sins of the world.
We believe that before we were born we lived in heaven as spirit children. We were given the choice to come here and gain a body just as our Heavenly father. We knew that we would be tested but that if we live a worthy life we may return to our heavenly father.

God wanted us to have free agency. However satan wanted to rule us.

As far as the Book of Mormon is concerned, we believe that is an account of Jesus Christ visit to the ancient americas. It is another testement of Jesus Christ and in no way replaces the bible.

We don't believe Adam became God and your responce does not take from the fact that the trinity is disputed using verse from the bible.

How do you explain verses that show the three to be seperate beings such as the one i quoted earlier?

[tequilamac]

What Mormons actually perceive the Trinity to be:from the Mormons themselves.

Joseph Smith, 1844, funeral speech called the King Follett Discourse:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens[.] That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man. The scriptures inform us that Jesus said,‘As the Father hath power to himself, even so hath the Son power’—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it."

Joseph Smith- his vision at age 14: Both the Father and the Son appeared to him "as two seperate personages". God the father did huh?

God the Father was once a man who was created by his God, was born and lived on another earth, learned and lived the "Mormon gospel," died, and was eventually resurrected and made God over this universe. As such, he retains forever his flesh-and-bones body.

Here is a big problem for Mormons even right now today from the above paragraph: God the Father was once a man who was creted by his God and was born and lived on another earth etc. Problem is there is no beginning to this. This completely rules out any possibility that God created the earth and or the universe. The usual explanation by Mormons is that Adam created the earth as he is the God of the earth as opposed to the Gods of other planets.(Let us not wander off into a discussion of Kolub here)

Orson Pratt said the Holy Ghost was a spiritual fluid that filled the universe.
Brigham Young taught that Adam is the God of this planet. These are both distortions by various mormons from actual mormon teachings which is that God the Father, is a perfected man with an actual physical body with physical body parts.

Mormons men who do what God did, begin as a man and become God, can also become God in the same way by much temple service primarily acting as proxy in baptisms for the dead and terrific tithing. They are to devote every possible moment to temple service to acheive their God.

Lorenzo Snow, said about Mormons, and he should know considering he was the fifth president, "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be." Lorenzo had this revealed to him by God directly who appeared to him as a "personage" with human body parts.

so it is relatively obvious to most trinitarian Christians that Mormons absolutely must have the Book of Mormon in order to explain these teachings were are completely opposite the Holy Bible.
A man who becomes God as opposed to a God who becomes man?
One is satanic and one is Christian. Goc became man, God incarnate- Christian. Man deified, man become God-Satanism.

This all precludes the polytheism of Joseph Smith and it also does not enter into the satanic practice of polygamy, one Joseph Smith indulged to the tune of 30 wives.

Once the Trinity is switched, or upended like that, man is deified as opposed to God incarnate, the upside down or inside out trinity, backwards- anti Christ with satanic activity.

[tex]

tequilamac wrote:

<quoted text>
Not true. Another very serious misrepresentation of Catholicism. We do not accept most baptisms from other religions. In fact the list is very small of what is accepted. Lutheran,Anglican, Orthodox and maybe one more ONLY.
simply because MOST religions outside of these few do not worship a true Trinity therefore their baptisms are invalid. Totally invalid.
Please try to not misrepresent what Catholics teach. Most baptisms are NOT accepted and require renunciation of the prior faith and the work of satan completely before being properly baptised in the Trinity.
We just do not have a your religion is okay and our religion is okay attitude. No their religion is not okay- it is a problem, unless it is trinitarian. we will live in peace with other religions but no, we ABSOLUTELY do NOT accept them.

I believe this is just a game people on here play to try to figure out what religion you are or if you have a specific religion. I have already been called out to try to figure some things out.

Then if you write anything that isn't sunshine and roses, they play the victim.

I think they have given up on me. I read your posts. I don't always respond.

[Quiet_Dave_2005]

Anti-trinatarian, I could agree in part that Mormons are anit-trinitarian: we believe in three separate individual members of the Godhead and not three manifestations of one individual. However, we are deeply committed to Jesus Christ, we just have a different conception of him than Trinitarians.

As to Catholics never preaching intolerance of other faiths, by your own words you condemn yourselve of such intolerance and the historical record of Europe: the Inquisition, the 30-years War and the savagery wrought on the natives of America by Church and Conquistadors.

Truth will always "overcome." No two differing tenets can both be true: either, one will be right and the other wrong or they will both be wrong together. As long as LDS and Catholic doctrines colide, one will be right and the other wrong, or both will be wrong. Is that too difficult a concept to understand?