The Mormonizing of America

Nov 12, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Deseret News

In this piece from the Huffington Post, Stephen Mansfield describes how Mormons have become prominent in American society and why Americans seem intrigued by the Mormon faith.

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#29
Jan 30, 2013
 

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JustAnotherChildOfGod wrote:
Here is another site with information about the Mormon theodemocracy ambitions:
"Latter Day Saints are a powerful business empire and professional lobby in pursuit of theocratic control. Written in their tenets is the goal of becoming President and it’s one they’ve long sought after, to rule the people in a literal “government of (their) God”. It’s a long read yes, but it’s the only way to look at all the issues that range from blatant racism to anti-Semitism and nuclear warheads championed by the Church that have implications in today’s conflict with Iran. Bank fraud, anti-trust lawsuits, gay rights and control of the food industry are a few more surprises you’ll find along the way."
a short excerpt of an interesting article that can be read in full here:
http://amymacpherson.wordpress.com/tag/theode...
Paranoid delusional pathetic idiot...lol. Romney lost the election because he was Mormon. The US largely rejects Mormons. US Christianity does reject Mormonism. Yet some how you think they are in control of some percentage of the US government and gain a bit more control from year to year? And this is being done in a nation of younger generations that are having less and less respect for religion as a whole, yet you think these generations are going to give Mormons a 'by' while rejecting US religions as a whole? Are you fricking mad? What are you on?

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You can see the fruits of the teachings of the Later Day Saints reflected in the comments made here by the theocratic warriors attempting to defend the church. The denial of the evidence presented is somewhat ironic. Since it has been established that this cult engages in theocratic warfare nothing they say has any credibility.

(lying to the gentiles to protect the church is considered permissible by the masters of the cult )

Theocratic warfare is the tool used by the desperate to defend the absurd

Here is an interesting article by an ex-member on the many dangers of this bizarre cult that the general public is unaware of:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/13/6600...

We all need to get informed as to the evil nature of the Roman hoax of Christianity and it's many derivatives that deny the Jewish GOD and the Jewish Jesus and get involved in restoring true Christianity based on the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel to humanity that is even now being found to be in accord with the latest scientific findings concerning the nature of the Cosmos!

GOD is LOVE. WE are ALL ONE WITH GOD, even the unloving!
OleWazzizName

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Jan 31, 2013
 

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We all need to be aware of who this group is and what they actually represent. We won't find it revealed by the Mormons themselves. Theocratic warriors have no respect for truth when it comes to us gentiles.

Here is an interesting article on the Mormons and the antisemitism that exists in the Book of Mormon:

http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files...

The theocratic warriors on this thread will try to talk their way out of it with ad hominem attacks against my person and calling me a liar for posting this but the words are from their own book of mormon.

In contrast to the Mormon antisemitic claims falsely attributed to Jesus, the real Jesus was a practicing Jew and grew up worshiping the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel.

The Romans murdered the historical Jesus and blamed it on the Jews. They have attempted to revise history but earlier manuscripts have been found in the last century that contradict them. Those that buy into the racism of the false form of Christianity of the Romans actually reject both the Jewish Jesus and the Jewish GOD.

Antisemitism is anti-Christian!

We all need to get informed as to the evil nature of the Roman hoax of Christianity and it's many derivatives that deny the Jewish GOD and the Jewish Jesus and get involved in restoring true Christianity based on the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel to humanity that is even now being found to be in accord with the latest scientific findings concerning the nature of the Cosmos!

GOD is LOVE. WE are ALL ONE WITH GOD, even the unloving!

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Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
You can see the fruits of the teachings of the Later Day Saints reflected in the comments made here by the theocratic warriors attempting to defend the church. The denial of the evidence presented is somewhat ironic. Since it has been established that this cult engages in theocratic warfare nothing they say has any credibility.
(lying to the gentiles to protect the church is considered permissible by the masters of the cult )
Theocratic warfare is the tool used by the desperate to defend the absurd
Here is an interesting article by an ex-member on the many dangers of this bizarre cult that the general public is unaware of:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/13/6600...
We all need to get informed as to the evil nature of the Roman hoax of Christianity and it's many derivatives that deny the Jewish GOD and the Jewish Jesus and get involved in restoring true Christianity based on the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel to humanity that is even now being found to be in accord with the latest scientific findings concerning the nature of the Cosmos!
GOD is LOVE. WE are ALL ONE WITH GOD, even the unloving!
lol...you're looney toons dude. You're absolutely, certifiably looney toons.
In America, there are 300 million plus people.
In America, there are about 6 million registered Mormon members. Of that 6 million you can slice that to maybe at most, 2 million 'active' Mormons. So you have 300 plus million people in America and about 2 million of those are active Mormons. And you think they have a growing financial/political foot hold on America to re-establish a theocratic government? When? Next year? In a decade? You're a fricking nut case if you think the nut jobs back in Washington are just going to roll over and give everything up to Mormons.
You're delusional and paranoid...lolol.

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OleWazzizName wrote:
The theocratic warriors on this thread will try to talk their way out of it with ad hominem attacks against my person and calling me a liar for posting this but the words are from their own book of mormon.
When you're proved to be a liar, I call you a liar. I have never called you a liar if you weren't one. But your on going bout with dementia has that information twisted. When you lie and you're called a liar and evidence is shown how you lied, you'll state you told the truth regardless. But when you state something that isn't a lie and what you stated is challenged, now you claim people are calling you a liar. You really need some mental counselling dude, just saying...
texwex

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#35
Feb 19, 2013
 
http://youtube.com/watch... ………
Is any real solution?

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Here is an interesting article on how the Mormons treat their own people who happen to be scientists with integrity that find evidence that contradicts the church:

"Plant geneticist Simon Southerton was a Mormon bishop in Brisbane, Australia when he woke up the morning of Aug. 3, 1998 to the shattering conclusion that his knowledge of science made it impossible for him to believe any longer in the Book of Mormon.

Two years later he started writing "Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA and the Mormon Church," published by Signature Books and due in stores next month. Along the way, he found a world of scholarship that has led him to conclude The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints belief is changing, but not through prophesy and revelation.

Rather, Southerton sees a behind-the-scenes revolution led by a small group of Brigham Young University scholars and their critics who are reinterpreting fundamental teachings of the Book of Mormon in light of DNA research findings. Along the way, he says, these apologist scholars, with the apparent blessing of church leadership, are contradicting church teachings about the origins of American Indians and Polynesians.

"You've got Mormon apologists in their own publications rejecting what prophets have been saying for decades. This becomes very troubling for ordinary members of the church," Southerton said.

And while the work of the BYU apologists ? the term means those who speak or write in defense of something ? remains confined largely to intellectual circles, some church members who have always understood themselves in light of Mormon teachings about the people known as Lamanites are suffering identity crises.

"It's very difficult. It is almost traumatizing," said Jose Aloayza, a Midvale attorney who likened facing this new reality to staring into a spiritual abyss.

"It's that serious, that real," said Aloayza, a Peruvian native born into the church and still a member. "I'm almost here feeling I need an apology. Our prophets should have known better. That's the feeling I get."

Southerton, now a senior researcher with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization in Canberra, Australia, has concluded along with many other scientists studying mitochondrial DNA lines that American Indians and Polynesians are of Asian extraction. "

from:

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_dna.html

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Feb 19, 2013
 

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Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
Here is an interesting article on how the Mormons treat their own people who happen to be scientists with integrity that find evidence that contradicts the church:
"Plant geneticist Simon Southerton was a Mormon bishop in Brisbane, Australia when he woke up the morning of Aug. 3, 1998 to the shattering conclusion that his knowledge of science made it impossible for him to believe any longer in the Book of Mormon.
Two years later he started writing "Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA and the Mormon Church," published by Signature Books and due in stores next month. Along the way, he found a world of scholarship that has led him to conclude The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints belief is changing, but not through prophesy and revelation.
Rather, Southerton sees a behind-the-scenes revolution led by a small group of Brigham Young University scholars and their critics who are reinterpreting fundamental teachings of the Book of Mormon in light of DNA research findings. Along the way, he says, these apologist scholars, with the apparent blessing of church leadership, are contradicting church teachings about the origins of American Indians and Polynesians.
"You've got Mormon apologists in their own publications rejecting what prophets have been saying for decades. This becomes very troubling for ordinary members of the church," Southerton said.
And while the work of the BYU apologists ? the term means those who speak or write in defense of something ? remains confined largely to intellectual circles, some church members who have always understood themselves in light of Mormon teachings about the people known as Lamanites are suffering identity crises.
"It's very difficult. It is almost traumatizing," said Jose Aloayza, a Midvale attorney who likened facing this new reality to staring into a spiritual abyss.
"It's that serious, that real," said Aloayza, a Peruvian native born into the church and still a member. "I'm almost here feeling I need an apology. Our prophets should have known better. That's the feeling I get."
Southerton, now a senior researcher with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization in Canberra, Australia, has concluded along with many other scientists studying mitochondrial DNA lines that American Indians and Polynesians are of Asian extraction. "
from:
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_dna.html
Okay, so I read your statement... "Here is an interesting article on how the Mormons treat their own people who happen to be scientists with integrity that find evidence that contradicts the church:"... and I read the entire article. But never once in the article did I read of how Mormons treated Mormon scientists that have disbeliefs. I didn't read where these Mormon scientists were excommunicated, disciplined, told not to be a scientist any more... I read nothing of what you claim took place in the article.
Another instance of you making a twist of what wasn't said/wrote.
By the way, the educated LDS scholars have been trying to figure out how Joseph Smiths claim that American natives are ancestors to Jews isn't being proven by DNA studies for a good 30 years now.
This is nothing new, seriously.
A number of factors can explain why present living people don't have comparable DNA factors for past ancestors. Living Jews today cannot have their DNA matched to the DNA of Jews that lived two thousand years ago. Know why? It's called Assimilation.
Also, there are parts of the DNA that remain yet undiscovered as to identification. People that had DNA profiles done just thirty years ago, now having that DNA reanalyzed show more ancestral connections than were known of 30 years ago.
A Jew today can say his ancestors lived in Israel 2000 years ago. But that's all he can do is say it. His personal DNA will never prove any such thing.
Wake up and smell the coffee dude, just saying :)

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Feb 19, 2013
 

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No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, so I read your statement... "Here is an interesting article on how the Mormons treat their own people who happen to be scientists with integrity that find evidence that contradicts the church:"... and I read the entire article. But never once in the article did I read of how Mormons treated Mormon scientists that have disbeliefs. I didn't read where these Mormon scientists were excommunicated, disciplined, told not to be a scientist any more... I read nothing of what you claim took place in the article.
Another instance of you making a twist of what wasn't said/wrote.
By the way, the educated LDS scholars have been trying to figure out how Joseph Smiths claim that American natives are ancestors to Jews isn't being proven by DNA studies for a good 30 years now.
This is nothing new, seriously.
A number of factors can explain why present living people don't have comparable DNA factors for past ancestors. Living Jews today cannot have their DNA matched to the DNA of Jews that lived two thousand years ago. Know why? It's called Assimilation.
Also, there are parts of the DNA that remain yet undiscovered as to identification. People that had DNA profiles done just thirty years ago, now having that DNA reanalyzed show more ancestral connections than were known of 30 years ago.
A Jew today can say his ancestors lived in Israel 2000 years ago. But that's all he can do is say it. His personal DNA will never prove any such thing.
Wake up and smell the coffee dude, just saying :)
You did not read the entire article. I just posted a short excerpt to show it was worth reading for those curious about all that has transpired over the DNA problem.

Here is another interesting excerpt:

"Because Simon Southerton was excommunicated from the LDS Church--ostensibly because, while separated from his wife, he had a relationship with another woman--national media attention has been once again focused in on the controversial tenets of Mormonism. Despite the fact the Mormons tried to come up with other reasons to oust Southerton, everybody and their dog knows why he was actually booted. See, Simon's research showed he could not find one single link between the Lost Tribes of Jewish descent, and Native Americans.

If you've done your Book of Mormon research, you know that it claims that Lamanites were the descendants of these extremely directionally-challenged Israelites, and it claims they found themselves, oddly enough, in the Western Hemisphere. Okay, we could MAYBE accept that (can you hear a IT COULD HAPPEN?), even though there isn't one shred of evidence supporting it, except recent DNA evidence, like the extensive research done by Southerton, shows that the Native Americans are actually descended from Asians.

So what do the Mormons do? Kill the messenger, of course!! That's standard practice."

from:

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_dna.html

And again No Surprise, I don't hate the Mormon people. But I do hate theocratic warfare. And I would still hate it even if one of my children was engaged in it. But I would never hate my child for being misguided. Would you?

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#39
Feb 19, 2013
 

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Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not read the entire article. I just posted a short excerpt to show it was worth reading for those curious about all that has transpired over the DNA problem.
Here is another interesting excerpt:
"Because Simon Southerton was excommunicated from the LDS Church--ostensibly because, while separated from his wife, he had a relationship with another woman--national media attention has been once again focused in on the controversial tenets of Mormonism. See, Simon's research showed he could not find one single link between the Lost Tribes of Jewish descent, and Native Americans.
And again No Surprise, I don't hate the Mormon people. But I do hate theocratic warfare. And I would still hate it even if one of my children was engaged in it. But I would never hate my child for being misguided. Would you?
A spin can always be put on why a member that's been excommunicated was excommunicated.
Knowing about excommunication and disfellowshipping practices in the Mormon church, let me educate you on these two things.
An excommunication can only be considered by the first presidency. Before an excommunication is ever considered, disfellowshipping is the first route/avenue to always be taken by the bishop and stake president.
You can have doubts and misgivings and that won't get you excommunicated.
But if you are contentious and loud and defiant and openly speak against the church, it's leaders and or doctrines, you'll at first be kindly asked to keep your comments out side of church so as not to be a disruption as it would be with any church policy.
If you continue in your negative ideas and rants because you have lost your testimony of the church and you show no want or desire to come back to the church after being counselled by your bishop and or state president, excommunication will be brought up to give you what you desire, non-membership. But ask Dana if you wish. In most all cases, excommunication does not come easily or quickly.
In this case according to you, we have a temple elder that not only lost his testimony because he couldn't "PROVE" HIS RELIGION TRUE BY FACTS INSTEAD OF FAITH, but he tossed his commitments to God to not commit adultery out the window as casually as he did it.
In between the lines, we have a man in a rocky marriage. He's went from having faith to doubting to deciding he needed facts in order to continue to have a belief in his faith. That is comparable to a person deciding they won't believe in God because they can't physically prove his existence. Christianity is about having faith in what can never be proved as true and factual by scientific means. That is why to believe in the Christian God, that God demands faith from adherents without having proof of his existence.
This guy was excommunicated by his own choices and actions, not by some conspiracy theory. He would have been counselled by his bishop and the stake president to see if they could help him in his turmoil. They would have told him you can prove or disprove the church by facts.
Actual facts if they were to come to light as they have for the Bible, they would only prove the historical/geographical content as being true. As the Bible, you would be left to contend that an invisible God was the author for that book's existence.
I see no 'church conspiracy' to excommunicate the man. The man lost his faith in Mormon doctrine. He was ready to quit that church before ever being excommunicated from it.

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#40
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Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
And again No Surprise, I don't hate the Mormon people. But I do hate theocratic warfare. And I would still hate it even if one of my children was engaged in it. But I would never hate my child for being misguided. Would you?
It's nice to claim you don't hate Mormon people. But have you ever stopped to consider since you began you're stance on Mormonism, you began it by hating and loathing the Mormon men that killed those settlers?
Mormon doctrine didn't kill any one. That's like saying Bible doctrine did all the killing in it. Doctrine won't and can't do a thing all of itself. It's a two way street. And even non-Mormon scholars of the MMM incident admit many things, not just doctrine, aided those men to doing what they did.
Consider this example. You and your family and relatives are having a family reunion by a nice lake. Ten pairs of Mormon missionaries get out of cars and producing guns, they begin for no apparent reason to beat, kill and rape all of your family while preaching the Mormon gospel and than leave.
Laying on the ground half beaten to death who are you hating? Mormon doctrine or Mormons? Of course the Mormons that beat, killed and raped your family. But as you heal, you now come to hate all Mormons and everything they stand for. You'd rather piss on a Mormon than have to even look at one after all of that.
Well there's a comparison of what you really hate. You hate Mormons that preach and teach Mormon doctrine.

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Feb 20, 2013
 

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No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
It's nice to claim you don't hate Mormon people.,,..[cut],,..
I think a problem we have here is that you are interpreting what I post as hate for individuals since you live in a love/hate culture where people are constantly judged for their actions and controlled with conditional love which in reality is simply relative degrees of hate.

I am not asking you to accept how I view the Cosmos but perhaps it would help you to understand where I am coming from.

I consider all of us to be ONE WITH GOD in a literal sense. Each and every one of us is an integral part of what is. None are left out.

This can all be confirmed from both the Hebrew and Greek scriptures and it can be confirmed through personal meditation as I have repeatedly posted here on topix.

The historical Jesus did not preach the Roman form of Christianity. He was a simple mystic who wanted humanity, all of us, to wake up to who we are in GOD.

He also pointed out that the infinite consciousness that is GOD is LOVE.

When he preached his message reincarnation was a part of the culture he was born into.

This is why unconditional LOVE works. Each of us evolves through degrees of complexity as life evolves in a sacred dance that allows all of us the time we need to become fully conscious in LOVE.

Now I know you don't even accept unconditional LOVE which in effect means you do not accept the GOD that I worship. And of course by accepting the OMNIPRESENT GOD that is LOVE I reject your god.

But unlike you, No surprise, I see everyone as deserving of LOVE and capable of rising above sin. No one deliberately chooses to be a sinner as a lifestyle choice any more than anybody chooses to be ill. Sin is a disease from which humanity as a whole needs to be healed of.

If a person does not accept their place in LOVE in this lifetime they will be cast back down to earth to try again.

So you see No surprise, I don't believe in hate for my fellow human beings. I see hate and fear as based on misunderstanding of who we are. And it is this misunderstanding that keeps humanity from realizing our full potential as human beings here on planet earth building a society based on LOVE. A true egalitarian theocracy where each of us has a direct line to GOD if you will.

I feel as sad for the men who committed the horrible crime at Mountain Meadows and than had to carry this horror with them for the rest of their lives as I do their victims. But nobody in their right mind could condone the actions of these men that is a logical result of the blood atonement doctrine held to by the church.

And I see doctrines that reject the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel and the historical Jesus Christ as a danger to the mental health of those that fall for them.

So like I said, No surprise, I am not your enemy, but the information I am trying to share will eventually shatter all false religions like the one you are trying to defend.

And this information is not my opinion, no surprise, it is documented scientific facts and historical records that are gradually exposing all false religions based on primitive god(s) of conditional love.

And I most definitely disagree with your statement "Mormon doctrine didn't kill any one". It has killed many and it is still doing so.

I can see it and so can many others who can see a greater picture that your patriarchal hierarchical doctrine teaches does not exist.

Now like I said at the beginning of my post, I am not asking you to accept what I say, but irregardless of what you believe I do not hate anyone, but I do view any religious teaching that points us back towards the tribal gods of our ancestors, such as yours does, as barbaric and harmful to life.

I have learned that hate is a part of the delusion of conditional love taught by false religions such as yours that humanity needs to be healed from.

And here I am, doing the best I can to help in the healing process.

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Feb 20, 2013
 

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Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
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I think a problem we have here is that you are interpreting what I post as hate for individuals since you live in a love/hate culture where people are constantly judged for their actions and controlled with conditional love which in reality is simply relative degrees of hate.
Nice post.
So I live in a love/hate culture and you don't live in a love/hate culture? So tell me, where's this culture at that you live within where only love exists? I'd like to visit such a culture.
And society at whole (as you are a prime example of) constantly judges how they believe is right and correct and most all others are wrong and false in their beliefs. You do that judgement of others all the time!
In another thread you stated you don't judge. Yet you have judged various religions and the people in those religions as corrupt, wrong, etc. You judge the RCC and the JW and the LDS faiths all the time.
The worst thing happening is some how you have come to brain wash yourself to think you really don't hate individuals and or their beliefs and that you're not judgemental.
Let's do a reality check and rephrase your statement. You have a problem interpreting what you post as not being hate for individuals since you live within your own philosophy of love/hate based on sever judgements of others religious philosophies. You constantly judge those people by the basis of their religious beliefs to establish yourself in the opposite. You're controlled by your own philosophy that you think is based on unconditional love which in reality is simply relative degrees of judgement/hate.
You are a human like the rest of us. And some how you think you aren't and that you're something different than the rest of humanity.
And if you really believe you love people and hate the doctrines you disagree with, I challenge you to declare without explanation in six different threads, that you love Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Hitler, Stalin, Nazis, Skin Heads, White power groups and the KKK. State nothing more and see what kind of reactions you get.
When the flack starts hitting the fan, than explain in each thread that you unconditionally love Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Hitler, Stalin, Nazis, Skin Heads, White power groups and the KKK but you disagree with their doctrines.
PS...true unconditional love never judges in the capacity that you judge others by.

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#43
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Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
The historical Jesus did not preach the Roman form of Christianity. He was a simple mystic who wanted humanity, all of us, to wake up to who we are in GOD.
He also pointed out that the infinite consciousness that is GOD is LOVE.
I agree that Jesus din't teach the revised form of Christianity that the churches in Rome set forth.
But for you to claim that Jesus was a simple mystic and nothing more says a lot and reveals some deep dishonesty of yourself when you speak to actual Christians.
You have just declared that as you believe Jesus was a simple mystic and nothing more, that you don't believe he was the son of God. You don't believe he was the saviour of man kind. You don't believe he died for our sins. You don't believe he was resurrected and you don't believe he appeared to his disciples and others after his death on the cross. You don't believe the prophecies that spoke of his coming in the OT. So you don't believe he fulfilled any laws.
Yet you dishonestly lead others in these threads to think you believe in those things by calling yourself a Christian. Do you understand your dishonesty?
You stated Jesus was a human as you or I am a human and was a mystic in your opinion and nothing more. You need to start declaring to people when you get into a conversation about Jesus, that you don't believe he was the son of God and any one's saviour so they can understand your opinions better.
Maybe you should consider saying in your nick name caption, "Jesus was a man" or Jesus was a mystic" and people would understand you don't believe in Jesus as Christians do.
And since you don't believe Jesus died for our sins, how do you justify a philosophy of sinful acts?

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Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
#1.(Your first judgement of me) Now I know you don't even accept unconditional LOVE
#2 judgement ...which in effect means you do not accept the GOD that I worship.
#3 judgement ...But unlike you, No surprise, I see everyone as deserving of LOVE
#4 judgement ...and capable of rising above sin.
#5 ...will eventually shatter all false religions like the one you are trying to defend.
#6 ...And this information is not my opinion, no surprise, it is documented scientific facts and historical records that are gradually exposing all false religions based on primitive god(s) of conditional love.
#7 ...such as yours does, as barbaric and harmful to life.
#8 ...I have learned that hate is a part of the delusion of conditional love taught by false religions such as yours
Now we'll discuss your self righteous judgements that you seem to have no problem with making judgements by. By the way, to my knowledge, I have never judged your personal religious beliefs as you have judged mine, just saying :)
The above eight examples in your post are how you judge so freely and ye you still declare you're so full of unconditional love. Most would agree with me that unconditional love doesn't judge as you use it to judge with.
First you claim I don't accept unconditional love. Where is you're proof I don't accept unconditional love? That statement of your's would be classified as a lie. Why? Because you know nothing about me except for how we debate. There is no room in this thread or any thread on Topix or the web to show/prove one believes in unconditional love. Unconditional love is an action, described by actions, not a phrase.
Second you said I don't accept the God you accept. And you capitalized God for you and used a small g for my god, denoting you have a godly power to know what god/God I worship and if it's the correct god/God to be worshipped by your self righteous thinking and judgements.
Third, you stated you think I don't think everyone is deserving of love. And you think I don't think that people are deserving of love by what power of your's? What power have you used to come to think/believe that I don't think people are deserving of love? Hmm?
Fourth, you don't think I believe people are capable of rising above sin. I have proved that how? How have I proved to you I don't think people are capable of rising above sins? Are you using a godly power to know my thoughts?
Fifth, you claim I defend a false religion. Yet you have no proof it's a false religion. You have nothing for a resource to judge the LDS religion as true or false. You don't believe in the Bible as being the words of God. So by what means are you judging the LDS faith as false?
Seventh, you judge the LDS faith as barbaric and harmful. Aren't you barbaric and harmful? Didn't you discipline your kids? That's barbarism. Didn't you tell them what to do and what not to do as they grew? That's harmful to extents, you're thinking wasn't always correct. How often did you tell them 'no' because you could? Were you the bread winner? If you were you made your wife subservient to yourself. And you find fault with the LDS faith for doing what you did as a father?
Eight, once more you're having godly powers to discern how you believe is right and correct and other faiths/people are deceived and wrong and unloving in their beliefs etc.
..
And finally #6. This was a whopper.
"And this information is not my opinion, no surprise,"
So one through eight wasn't your opinion? You did state that! You just stated all you claimed of me was not an opinion but is documented scientific facts with historical records.
Well you need to get busy and prove by scientific facts and historical records what you claimed in numbers 1 through 8.
Waiting....

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

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#45
Feb 20, 2013
 

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No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that Jesus din't teach the revised form of Christianity that the churches in Rome set forth.
But for you to claim that Jesus was a simple mystic and nothing more says a lot and reveals some deep dishonesty of yourself when you speak to actual Christians.
You have just declared that as you believe Jesus was a simple mystic and nothing more, that you don't believe he was the son of God. You don't believe he was the saviour of man kind. You don't believe he died for our sins. You don't believe he was resurrected and you don't believe he appeared to his disciples and others after his death on the cross. You don't believe the prophecies that spoke of his coming in the OT. So you don't believe he fulfilled any laws.
Yet you dishonestly lead others in these threads to think you believe in those things by calling yourself a Christian. Do you understand your dishonesty?
You stated Jesus was a human as you or I am a human and was a mystic in your opinion and nothing more. You need to start declaring to people when you get into a conversation about Jesus, that you don't believe he was the son of God and any one's saviour so they can understand your opinions better.
Maybe you should consider saying in your nick name caption, "Jesus was a man" or Jesus was a mystic" and people would understand you don't believe in Jesus as Christians do.
And since you don't believe Jesus died for our sins, how do you justify a philosophy of sinful acts?
\

Just because you disagree with me does not make me a liar, no surprise.

And if you look at my avatar, you will see clearly written under grandpasmurf952 the sentence "Mystical Atheism for everyone". I am not a Christian.

And when you start ranting that I don't believe in GOD, remember I have said repeatedly that blind faith won't work. You have to Know GOD. And you will never KNOW GOD second hand.

This is why you are frantically defending your belief system.

Nobody can talk me out of the GOD who is always with me any more than anyone could talk me out of the fact that I can ride a bicycle.

You see, no surprise, true faith comes from accurate knowledge.

Those who claim you can find GOD through their writings are the blind leading the blind.

And I have made myself clear as to where I stand on the issue of the Roman hoax of true Christianity that is well documented.

I tried to make it clear how I felt about sin. Sin is not a life style choice for which one should be punished but a disease that needs to be healed.

The wages of sin are death. We each die for our own sins.

Once we are healed of this disease, sin that affects the whole human family, life will improve dramatically.

And if you don't think sin affects the whole family consider this:

Luke 18:19 (New International Version,©2010)

"19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good, except God alone."

Sin is the human condition but it is simply falling short of the mark. Like a child learning how to walk. We are small children of GOD learning to accept our place in GOD. Life isn't a crap shoot as false religion would have us believe.

And I do not present a philosophy I present the same technique advocated in the bible to confirm the nature of our being on an individual basis plus some useful scientific information to help confirm the mystical experience. I have stated this over and over also over the last four years.

I emphasis frequently the importance of not accepting anything blindly but to confirm everything for one's self. This includes what I, myself am sharing here.

And the culture I live in was born in Golden Gate park one magical summer in the 1960s. You wont' see it though even though we are all around you.

And no surprise, I say what I mean and I mean what I say. If I have not made it clear enough, politely ask me to rephrase it in a way you can understand, don't call me a liar. You accomplish nothing.

have a good evening.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

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#46
Feb 20, 2013
 

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Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
<quoted text>\
Just because you disagree with me does not make me a liar, no surprise.
And if you look at my avatar, you will see clearly written under grandpasmurf952 the sentence "Mystical Atheism for everyone". I am not a Christian.
And when you start ranting that I don't believe in GOD, remember I have said repeatedly that blind faith won't work. You have to Know GOD. And you will never KNOW GOD second hand.
This is why you are frantically defending your belief system.
Nobody can talk me out of the GOD who is always with me any more than anyone could talk me out of the fact that I can ride a bicycle.
You see, no surprise, true faith comes from accurate knowledge.
Those who claim you can find GOD through their writings are the blind leading the blind.
And I have made myself clear as to where I stand on the issue of the Roman hoax of true Christianity that is well documented.
I tried to make it clear how I felt about sin. Sin is not a life style choice for which one should be punished but a disease that needs to be healed.
The wages of sin are death. We each die for our own sins.
Once we are healed of this disease, sin that affects the whole human family, life will improve dramatically.
And if you don't think sin affects the whole family consider this:
Luke 18:19 (New International Version,©2010)
"19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good, except God alone."
Sin is the human condition but it is simply falling short of the mark. Like a child learning how to walk. We are small children of GOD learning to accept our place in GOD. Life isn't a crap shoot as false religion would have us believe.
And I do not present a philosophy I present the same technique advocated in the bible to confirm the nature of our being on an individual basis plus some useful scientific information to help confirm the mystical experience. I have stated this over and over also over the last four years.
I emphasis frequently the importance of not accepting anything blindly but to confirm everything for one's self. This includes what I, myself am sharing here.
And the culture I live in was born in Golden Gate park one magical summer in the 1960s. You wont' see it though even though we are all around you.
And no surprise, I say what I mean and I mean what I say. If I have not made it clear enough, politely ask me to rephrase it in a way you can understand, don't call me a liar. You accomplish nothing.
have a good evening.
If you make a statement that is true and factual based on evidence to prove what you claim is true, than you have proven it is true beyond a reasonable doubt.
You said in judgement of me without proof, with out evidence, by nothing other than an opinion...
"Now I know you don't even accept unconditional LOVE.."
That statement is a lie. So I called it a lie. It's a lie because you have absolutely no idea of what I accept and or don't accept concerning love. So for you to state that you KNOW I don't accept unconditional love is an out right lie on your part. Understand?
Now if you had written it this way... "Now I really don't believe you know what unconditional love is." ...that would not be a lie. Understand?
And whatever it is you have come to believe about God, that is defined as a philosophy; a religious belief; a personal definition of God etc.
I have nothing against a persons religious philosophy. I do have everything against a person telling others how they believe is wrong and incorrect. I have irks with 'how' people believe and I may tell them how they believe on a specific point is incorrect in my opinion, but I won't ever tell someone how they believe is wrong and correct.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

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#47
Feb 21, 2013
 

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No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
If you make a statement that is true and factual based on evidence to prove what you claim is true, than you have proven it is true beyond a reasonable doubt.
You said in judgement of me without proof, with out evidence, by nothing other than an opinion...
"Now I know you don't even accept unconditional LOVE.."
That statement is a lie. So I called it a lie. It's a lie because you have absolutely no idea of what I accept and or don't accept concerning love. So for you to state that you KNOW I don't accept unconditional love is an out right lie on your part. Understand?
Now if you had written it this way... "Now I really don't believe you know what unconditional love is." ...that would not be a lie. Understand?
And whatever it is you have come to believe about God, that is defined as a philosophy; a religious belief; a personal definition of God etc.
I have nothing against a persons religious philosophy. I do have everything against a person telling others how they believe is wrong and incorrect. I have irks with 'how' people believe and I may tell them how they believe on a specific point is incorrect in my opinion, but I won't ever tell someone how they believe is wrong and correct.
and yet your whole religion is focused on riding around on bicycles trying to shove it down other people's throats.

Your masters basically control Utah subverting the separation between church and state.

You really rammed your views down people's throats here in California with prop h(8). Your masters must have spent a fortune in YOUR tithes!

and you have the audacity to complain about me pointing out the glaring faults with your religion?

You are a disgusting hypocrite!

I don't have a philosophy knucklehead, what I know, I know, what I don't know remains a mystery for now. I don't base my life on the words of dead men who claimed to represent a primitive and barbaric concept of a god of conditional love as you do.

And I am sick of your hateful posts twisting my words and calling me a liar!

You accept a dead con man as a prophet and refuse to consider he is not what he claims despite the preponderance of evidence that shows this to be so.

You refuse to admit the barbaric nature of your church and it's blood atonement doctrine that led to the massacre of over a hundred innocent people in just the Mountain Meadows Massacre alone.

You are sick and so is your religion.

I offer no scientific proof that can combat your circular logic.
And I refuse to discuss anything with you any more. You are a rude and mean spirited man.

So any meaningful debate we might have had isn't going to happen.

Have a nice life.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

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#48
Feb 21, 2013
 

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Grandpasmurf952 lamely wrote again...
and yet your whole religion is focused on riding around on bicycles trying to shove it down other people's throats.
A. You you ride around these threads trying to shove your God based religious ideas down other peoples throats you fricking hypocrit.
Your masters basically control Utah subverting the separation between church and state.
A. Some more of your slurs. Once again stating I have a master as a master slave relationship, a statement to belittle another person. And you're a liar that you don't say purposeful mean things to try and injure their emotions. Fricking liar.
You really rammed your views down people's throats here in California with prop h(8). Your masters must have spent a fortune in YOUR tithes!
A. I did no such thing, never been to California. Not a member of the LDS church. Fricking pathetic liar. Don't you ever quit? And again you try and hurt my emotions by telling me my masters spent $ I never gave them? You're a pathetic excuse for a human.
and you have the audacity to complain about me pointing out the glaring faults with your religion?
A. Some more of your stupid idiocy. If you pointed out something about the LDS religion that was true, I complained of nothing liar. I have never complained when you pointed out something that was true about Mormons liar. I complained when you made out right lies and twisted half truths. That I did do liar.
You are a disgusting hypocrite!
A. And you're not? You complained Mormon missionaries ran about on bikes shoving their message down peoples throats. Yet your a fricking lying dog hypocrite because you run around these threads shoving your religious beliefs down other peoples throats. Lying fricking hypocrite.
I don't have a philosophy knucklehead, what I know, I know, what I don't know remains a mystery for now. I don't base my life on the words of dead men who claimed to represent a primitive and barbaric concept of a god of conditional love as you do.
A. 2 Philosophy; A set of views and theories of a particular philosopher concerning such study or an aspect of it. You preach Jesus's philosophy as the base of your preaching liar!
Fricking out right bald faced liar!! lolol... you don't base your life on dead men? No, you base your life on a dead man and you run around pasting the words of that dead guy called Jesus ALL THE TIME! Fricking hypocrttical liar! lol.
And I am sick of your hateful posts twisting my words and calling me a liar!
A. When you have lied I WILL CALL YOU A LIAR. Understand?

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

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El Cerrito California

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#49
Feb 21, 2013
 

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No Surprise wrote:
Grandpasmurf952 lamely wrote again...
and yet your whole religion is focused on riding around on bicycles trying to shove it down other people's throats.
A. You you ride around these threads trying to shove your God based religious ideas down other peoples throats you fricking hypocrit.
Your masters basically control Utah subverting the separation between church and state.
A. Some more of your slurs. Once again stating I have a master as a master slave relationship, a statement to belittle another person. And you're a liar that you don't say purposeful mean things to try and injure their emotions. Fricking liar.
You really rammed your views down people's throats here in California with prop h(8). Your masters must have spent a fortune in YOUR tithes!
A. I did no such thing, never been to California. Not a member of the LDS church. Fricking pathetic liar. Don't you ever quit? And again you try and hurt my emotions by telling me my masters spent $ I never gave them? You're a pathetic excuse for a human.
and you have the audacity to complain about me pointing out the glaring faults with your religion?
A. Some more of your stupid idiocy. If you pointed out something about the LDS religion that was true, I complained of nothing liar. I have never complained when you pointed out something that was true about Mormons liar. I complained when you made out right lies and twisted half truths. That I did do liar.
You are a disgusting hypocrite!
A. And you're not? You complained Mormon missionaries ran about on bikes shoving their message down peoples throats. Yet your a fricking lying dog hypocrite because you run around these threads shoving your religious beliefs down other peoples throats. Lying fricking hypocrite.
I don't have a philosophy knucklehead, what I know, I know, what I don't know remains a mystery for now. I don't base my life on the words of dead men who claimed to represent a primitive and barbaric concept of a god of conditional love as you do.
A. 2 Philosophy; A set of views and theories of a particular philosopher concerning such study or an aspect of it. You preach Jesus's philosophy as the base of your preaching liar!
Fricking out right bald faced liar!! lolol... you don't base your life on dead men? No, you base your life on a dead man and you run around pasting the words of that dead guy called Jesus ALL THE TIME! Fricking hypocrttical liar! lol.
And I am sick of your hateful posts twisting my words and calling me a liar!
A. When you have lied I WILL CALL YOU A LIAR. Understand?
I scrolled by it and did not read your drivel. You really should seek professional help.

Understand?

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