larry

Overland Park, KS

#65 Mar 20, 2008
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>I sincerly hope that you treat our missionaries with the same love and respect i would show you if you were standing on my door step.just as the lord wuold want me to however i would still like an answer to my question as to why yuou have made it your personal mission to tear down our faith.im trying to understand where you are coming from
Can I add to this what prophet or person holding the authority of God laied his hands on you and gave you this calling? For as the Bible says you can not get the calling unless called as was Aaron by the laying on of hands by one having the authority.

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Indianapolis, IN

#67 Mar 20, 2008
Keith Walker,
What I want to know and have asked before...why don't Christians do missionary work in a more Christlike way. Why don't they take their message of their truths to everyone...the masses, door to door. Random letting the spirit direct their paths as the Ancient Christians did. What's the deal about specializing against a particular religion. Don't you love all people not just Mormons? And why do you zero in on the faults of others religions? I have yet to see a Christian on these threads expound on the virtues of their own religion and why someone should investigate it on it's own merits. I see only ridicule, bias and bigotry. Do you honestly think your pathetic tactics are going to love the Mormons out of (as you say)our false religion? Can hear the masses as we speak...Praise the Lord...I feel the love!!! After you get done with them. If you think this way then you really don't understand Mormons but then again that is probably why you now take a soft sell approach...it's so nice to be nice. Still devious behind the sheep clothes when you don't show what you have to offer that's better.
And with all religions there will be ones who fall away from the LDS Church the same as there are ones who fall away form other religions. Each religion wins some and loses some. At least I know that the LDS Church has set a higher standard for bringing our gospel message to those who want more in their life and decide to embrace it...and not because we had to make others look ridiculous and false in the process. But because it is the gospel of Jesus Christ and he is the one who set the high standard.

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Indianapolis, IN

#68 Mar 20, 2008
"If you let us alone, we will do it a little more leisurely;
but if you persecute us, we will sit up nights to preach the gospel."
-Brigham Young, JD 2:318

The gospel is true...the book is blue!!!
We're a pretty hardy lot us Mormons...we've had to be and endured through it all. A rugged pioneer spirit is still alive a well in each LDS Mormon. So watch yourself.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#69 Mar 20, 2008
I would just like to go on record as saying that i still believe that many people try to disprove our faith out of nothing more than fear that it is the one and only true church. they don't want to be wrong and they are afraid of the persecution they may endure from telling their friends and family that they are lds. i may very well be wrong but it is still my opinion.

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Indianapolis, IN

#70 Mar 20, 2008
not ashamed wrote:
I would just like to go on record as saying that i still believe that many people try to disprove our faith out of nothing more than fear that it is the one and only true church. they don't want to be wrong and they are afraid of the persecution they may endure from telling their friends and family that they are lds. i may very well be wrong but it is still my opinion.
Ditto...but let me add that I think it has a whole lot more to do with 'sheep stealing' and 'boundary maintenance.' Christians have a paid ministry and LDS don't so then you get their clergy in on the Anti-Mormon rhetoric and they use fear and ignorance to keep their flocks away from us. "Less Prophets and more Profits" is their de facto motto.

In the early 1980s, Southern Baptist Convention leaders discovered—much to their horror—that 40 percent of Mormonism's 217,000 converts in 1980 came from Baptist backgrounds.
…And the SBC got serious about tempering the expansion of what was becoming the fastest-growing religion in the world. They developed programs, trained pastors, hosted Mormonism-awareness conferences, and published articles to help spread the message to Southern Baptists that Mormonism was a dangerous cult religion they had to avoid.

Follow the money.

‘The Real Money’

All the talk about doctrinal differences and appeals to "historical Christianity" is somewhat of a ruse. They have so many different denominations and sects, 100,000 in the U.S. alone that believe so many different things. If one Googles you can find a similar or exact teaching of the LDS in one of the many Christian Churches. I just proved it with the polygamy, not that we practice polygamy today but they like to beat us over the head with our history to prove it a false religion.

The real fear of EV's, and this was seen throughout Romney’s candidacy is that many of the myths about Mormonism created and fostered by the counter cultists would be exposed as false. If Romney got elected it would make LDS less "weird" and more socially acceptable and thus lead to a good deal more people investigating, and possibly even joining the church, many of them former EV”s which means some pastors will take a financial hit.

It is all about money, money, and mo money.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has always been seen as competition to the apostate churches.

It is all about money and "sheep stealing."

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#71 Mar 20, 2008
I have just read the article offending fish on keith walkers web site how disturbing it is to me that not only do you speak falsehoods about our faith but you are also willing to speak poorly of anyone who shows love toward us.that is sad indeed

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Indianapolis, IN

#72 Mar 20, 2008
not ashamed wrote:
I have just read the article offending fish on keith walkers web site how disturbing it is to me that not only do you speak falsehoods about our faith but you are also willing to speak poorly of anyone who shows love toward us.that is sad indeed
<said with drama and hyperbole, with forearm against forehead>

SHOCK...SCANDAL!!!
Say it's not true...and didn't he just say that he defended the Mormons to someone yesterday?

Sorry, just couldn't help myself.

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Indianapolis, IN

#73 Mar 20, 2008
not ashamed wrote:
I have just read the article offending fish on keith walkers web site how disturbing it is to me that not only do you speak falsehoods about our faith but you are also willing to speak poorly of anyone who shows love toward us.that is sad indeed
Mr. Walker had better get busy as he has a lot of Christians to hound that show love towards the LDS all the time. I bet he's taking on those Christian Polygamist as we speak.
One wonderful group of Christians in SLC take up space on the sidewalks so the disgusting 'Street Preachers' are denied a space during our conferences.
And how about all the other religious leaders of Christian denominations who regularly attend the Biblical conferences at BYU plus all the pre-eminent Bible Scholars of all faiths. Some even spoke at the Library of Congress for the commemoration of Joseph Smith. Margaret Barker was on of them. And these conferences are not just at BYU but inter-nationally that Mormons hold them are are accepted and speak and are invited.
But, when you're a little fish like Walker you wouldn't know about all the great things that LDS Mormons are doing. His kind only play in the cesspool. This is one of my favorite articles written by two Evangelical men and give a more grand picture of LDS Mormons.
http://www.cephasministry.com/mormon_apologet...

Since: Jan 08

Draper, UT

#74 Mar 20, 2008
I think theres some truth to it. Its very hard to be a mormon, and there is some pressure involved with the faith. Some people it doesnt bother, but theres a lot it does. My mother will flat out admit that the "no success can compensate for failure in the home" statements and the pressure of callings and teachings led to her having a nervous breakdown.

Thats just my mom tho. I know PLENTY of women in the church who love it and thrive in it. Its easier for some than others, thats just life. That all being said, unless you're the rare and strong person in the LDS faith innately, theres constant reminders to conform.

Im no longer LDS, and my take on it is if you love it, stay in it. But its not the only way. If it doesnt fit, get out of it. Its difficult to do that, because of what you're taught, but theres support out there for people who want to leave. Thats what I found, and I can honestly say Im alot more at peace for it.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#75 Mar 21, 2008
Mr zip,
I think you have great insight. I also think that no matter what path in life you have chosen that it is wonderful that you are at peace with yourself. I appreciate your fair outlook on things.:)

“www.evidencemini stries.org”

Since: Oct 07

San Antonio, TX

#77 Mar 21, 2008
Larry,
I haven't forgotten you. I've had a very busy day and this weekend is just going to be busier. I'll get back to you when I can.

Thanks for your understanding.
Mohan

Winnemucca, NV

#78 Mar 21, 2008
Are you afraid your wrong?

“www.evidencemini stries.org”

Since: Oct 07

San Antonio, TX

#79 Mar 21, 2008
Mohan wrote:
Are you afraid your wrong?
Lol, no. Larry deserves an answer and I do not have the time to give him a proper one yet. I will once I can look at it properly.

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

United States

#80 Mar 22, 2008
Those who fear the LDS Church will never admit that it is Christian.

"...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps THE religion;
if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect;
but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult." Leo Pfeffer

They must get over the fear first, and feel confidence in their own beliefs before they can accept the possibility that the LDS church also contains good Christian values and that it is a waste of time to fight against it.
I think any counter arguments that the critics come up with against Peterson's book 'Offenders for a Word' will be valid only in their own minds, according to their own definition of the word "Christian".
The only one qualified to properly define the word Christian is Christ himself, who will judge us all based on His own definition. Because of this, no one has the right or authority to pass judgment on anyone else and call them non-Christian.

Other Bible-believing Christians who would exclude us should consider what Christ Himself said about others who were doing things in His name but were not within His immediate group of followers:

"And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us." (Luke 9:49-50)

Here's a good C.S. Lewis quote:
"It is not for us to say who, in the deepest sense, is or is not close to the spirit of Christ. We do not see into men's hearts. We cannot judge, and are indeed forbidden to judge. It would be wicked arrogance for us to say that a man is, or is not, a Christian in this refined sense." (Mere Christianity, Touchstone, 1996, pp. 10-11.)
by JAHS
larry

Overland Park, KS

#81 Mar 24, 2008
Keith Walker wrote:
Larry,
I haven't forgotten you. I've had a very busy day and this weekend is just going to be busier. I'll get back to you when I can.
Thanks for your understanding.
It is realy not that hard. Sandra Tanner said Orson Pratt and the other Early LDS leaders did not know about the first vision and gave a quote from Orson Pratt to show this. I gave both he quote and the original quote from Orson Pratt with the 200+ words that Sandra Tanner removed. Is it wrong to remove 200+ words tomake a quote say the exact opposite of what the person said? I did not ask for anything on the other items like the 1840 pamphlet printed by Orson 2 years before the official version was published that gave every account found in the official version. i just asked about the one quote and gave you both the Tanners version and the original version. It shold not take more than 10 min. to come up with an oppinion.

“www.evidencemini stries.org”

Since: Oct 07

San Antonio, TX

#82 Mar 24, 2008
Hannah Rebekah wrote:
Those who fear the LDS Church will never admit that it is Christian.
"...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps THE religion;
if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect;
but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult." Leo Pfeffer
Those who fear Christian apologetics will never admit that it is a legitimate Christian activity.
"...if you believe in it, it is an important issue or perhaps THE important issue;
if you do not care one way or another about it, it is just criticism;
but if you fear and hate it, it is anti-Mormonism."
Keith Walker

Hannah, is it possible to critique and disagree with Mormonism without being labeled an anti-Mormon?
larry

Overland Park, KS

#83 Mar 25, 2008
Keith Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Those who fear Christian apologetics will never admit that it is a legitimate Christian activity.
"...if you believe in it, it is an important issue or perhaps THE important issue;
if you do not care one way or another about it, it is just criticism;
but if you fear and hate it, it is anti-Mormonism."
Keith Walker
Hannah, is it possible to critique and disagree with Mormonism without being labeled an anti-Mormon?
Yes Mr Zip does it all the time. The diferance is if a person distorts the truth or makes distroying a church their mission. Again what about my Orson Pratt Quote and who layed their hands on your head and called you of God as Aaron.

“www.evidencemini stries.org”

Since: Oct 07

San Antonio, TX

#84 Mar 25, 2008
larry wrote:
Yes Mr Zip does it all the time. The diferance is if a person distorts the truth or makes distroying a church their mission. Again what about my Orson Pratt Quote and who layed their hands on your head and called you of God as Aaron.
Sorry, Larry. I still haven't had the time to check into that yet. It seems that some loving JW or Mormon attacked our ministry over the weekend. Needless to say, I've had to spend time doing some things I had not planned on doing.

www.HappyXMormon.com
larry

Overland Park, KS

#85 Mar 25, 2008
Keith Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, Larry. I still haven't had the time to check into that yet. It seems that some loving JW or Mormon attacked our ministry over the weekend. Needless to say, I've had to spend time doing some things I had not planned on doing.
www.HappyXMormon.com
And your proof that it was a Jehovas witness or LDS is? Or is this more judging with no backing? You are showing your hate by saying "JW or Mormon" and not putting forth anything to show your assuption is correct.
David

United States

#86 Mar 25, 2008
Keith Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Those who fear Christian apologetics will never admit that it is a legitimate Christian activity.
"...if you believe in it, it is an important issue or perhaps THE important issue;
if you do not care one way or another about it, it is just criticism;
but if you fear and hate it, it is anti-Mormonism."
Keith Walker
Hannah, is it possible to critique and disagree with Mormonism without being labeled an anti-Mormon?
Sure it's possible to disagree with Mormonism without being labeled an Anti-Mormon and I see this go on all the time. There are other beliefs I disagree with but what is the famous definition on pornography? Something about, you may not be able to define completely but you'll know when you see it. That sames holds true for those who are Anti-Mormons and those who disagree with it. Daniel C. Peterson hit the nail on the head when he explained it like this? By his definition it makes you an Anti-Mormon. Makes it pretty easy to see it when defined like this:

"Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints may well be surprised and perplexed that one church would devote its official resources to assaulting another. There is nothing remotely comparable among the Mormons. I teach Islamic studies at Brigham Young University, and I often lecture on Islam to Latter-day Saint groups across the country. I have written a book about Islam, directed to a Latter-day Saint audience, and have participated in other efforts of the kind.48 I have been involved in Mormon-Muslim dialogues at Brigham Young and Idaho State universities, and in "trialogues" between Jews, Christians, and Muslims in Austria and Israel. Never have I been asked to concentrate on the "errors" and "evils" of Islam, nor have I ever felt the slightest pressure from anybody to do so. Quite the contrary. I have sought always to treat the religion of the Muslims with sympathy and respect, and my efforts to do so have been well received at every level of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

"To the best of my knowledge, not a single Latter-day Saint makes his or her living as a professional critic of anybody else's faith. We don't run anti-Protestant "ministries." We don't have a Sunday School curriculum focused on the errors of the Baptists. No Mormon tabloids exist that aim at refuting Calvinism. We don't buy or sell books with titles like Forty Years an Evangelical Slave. We don't produce sensationalistic videos devoted to attacking Protestant fundamentalism. I have never seen a Latter-day Saint cartoon lampooning, say, the Assemblies of God. We don't flit around the world trying to disrupt the work of other religious organizations. We don't picket them when they dedicate new buildings. We don't haunt their meetings. We don't distribute leaflets assaulting other faiths. We don't sponsor lectures or seminars in our chapels assaulting the "evils" of our neighbors' religions, and we don't have television and radio programs "exposing" the stupidity or depravity of others' beliefs.

"Latter-day Saints can, I think, be quite happy that this is so."
--Daniel C. Peterson

SO IF THE SHOE FITS WEAR IT!!!!! YOU'RE NOT DISAGREEING WITH IT YOU ARE ACTIVELY FIGHTING AGAINST IT. THAT MAKES YOU A BIG TIME ANTI-MORMON.

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