Mormons Change References To Blacks, Polygamy

Mar 17, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: nhpr.org

The Four Standard Works, which contains the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price, are the holy scriptures of the Mormon Church.

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Anonymous

Woodbridge, VA

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#1
Mar 18, 2013
 
It's amazing what a threat from a president (Jimmy Carter circa 1978) to have your tax exempt status (501(c)) taken away if you don't allow blacks to enter your congregation (Mormon Inc.)

As far as the polygamy, I guess they kind of had too.
How many polygamists cults are out west anyway??? Especially in Utah???

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#2
Mar 24, 2013
 

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gardennymph2013 wrote:
It's amazing what a threat from a president (Jimmy Carter circa 1978) to have your tax exempt status (501(c)) taken away if you don't allow blacks to enter your congregation (Mormon Inc.)
As far as the polygamy, I guess they kind of had too.
How many polygamists cults are out west anyway??? Especially in Utah???
lol...oh my fricking gosh! How many people are like stuck on stupid of Mormon history in these threads?
Jimmy Carter didn't make any threat he could have carried out first of all.
See, unknowingly to your well stated ignorance, blacks had been members of the Mormon church since Smith was alive. So the fact you stated blacks couldn't "...enter your congregation.." only proves how stuck on stupid your statement is as it is based on waayyyy to much ignorance. Why don't you try doing a little research before stating something so foolish? Just saying.
Black males were kept from holding the priesthood since Young, not Smith. Read some fricking Mormon history 101 and enlighten your self from ignorance.
Anonymous

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Mar 24, 2013
 

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No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...oh my fricking gosh! How many people are like stuck on stupid of Mormon history in these threads?
Jimmy Carter didn't make any threat he could have carried out first of all.
See, unknowingly to your well stated ignorance, blacks had been members of the Mormon church since Smith was alive. So the fact you stated blacks couldn't "...enter your congregation.." only proves how stuck on stupid your statement is as it is based on waayyyy to much ignorance. Why don't you try doing a little research before stating something so foolish? Just saying.
Black males were kept from holding the priesthood since Young, not Smith. Read some fricking Mormon history 101 and enlighten your self from ignorance.
LOL!!!! Oh your god indeed!! I said nothing about Joseph Smith. You know what I'm talking about. Secondly, what about Brigham Young??? I guess he liked black people in the church, heh??? Yeah, right. It is Brigham Young's beliefs that the church were under that stated Cain was cursed black for killing Abel, blacks are cursed because of Cain, blacks are cursed because of Ham. I had two mormon females come to my house, sit on my couch, and tell me that I was cursed because I was black.

So, yeah, blacks were let in as second-class members, if that. They were not allowed to participate in the churches sacred rites and were not allowed to become priest and priestesses. And the only reason they changed their philosophy was because as I said, they did not want to lose their tax-exempt status.

I now further understand that it has been neither confirmed or denied formally by Jimmy Carter or the Mormon church that they were threatened with the loss of their tax-exempt status, however, it is widely believed that they were because of Rex Lee's ( a mormon attorney, a Solicitor General at the time) argument over race and tax status with the IRS prior to this believed threat.

I can't understand a black mormon for the life of me. It's like a black muslim.

You said:
"blacks had been members of the Mormon church since Smith was alive."

You sound a bit patronizing; as this membership was riddled with restrictions. These people were hardly equal to their fellow "church" members.

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#4
Mar 24, 2013
 
gardennymph2013 wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!!! Oh your god indeed!! I said nothing about Joseph Smith. You know what I'm talking about. Secondly, what about Brigham Young??? I guess he liked black people in the church, heh??? Yeah, right.
Before I read any more of your supposedly educated and non-biased/prejudiced post about Mormons, let's go back to what you stated in ignorance.
You said... "It's amazing what a threat from a president (Jimmy Carter circa 1978) to have your tax exempt status (501(c)) taken away if you don't allow blacks to enter your congregation (Mormon Inc.)"
Again, blacks had been members of the LDS church since Smith began it. Smith baptised blacks as members and gave the priesthood to black males. So your statement..."..if you don't allow blacks to enter your congregation.." was pathetically ignorant on your part when blacks and all colours were allowed into the church as members from it's beginning. So if you'd like to make an amendment that you were incorrect go ahead and find the humble honesty to do so.
Next, Carter could do nothing to force the Mormons to change their policy of black males not holding the priesthood. So that was another statement of ignorance on your part. That's like saying the real reason Christianity's ministers are allowing same sex marriages is because Obama threatened to take away their tax exempt status. Fricking get a clue on okay?

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Mar 24, 2013
 

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gardennymph2013 wrote:
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LOL!!!! Oh your god indeed!! I said nothing about Joseph Smith. You know what I'm talking about. Secondly, what about Brigham Young??? I guess he liked black people in the church, heh??? Yeah, right. It is Brigham Young's beliefs that the church were under that stated Cain was cursed black for killing Abel, blacks are cursed because of Cain, blacks are cursed because of Ham. I had two mormon females come to my house, sit on my couch, and tell me that I was cursed because I was black.
So, yeah, blacks were let in as second-class members, if that. They were not allowed to participate in the churches sacred rites and were not allowed to become priest and priestesses. And the only reason they changed their philosophy was because as I said, they did not want to lose their tax-exempt status.
I now further understand that it has been neither confirmed or denied formally by Jimmy Carter or the Mormon church that they were threatened with the loss of their tax-exempt status, however, it is widely believed that they were because of Rex Lee's ( a mormon attorney, a Solicitor General at the time) argument over race and tax status with the IRS prior to this believed threat.
I can't understand a black mormon for the life of me. It's like a black muslim.
You said:
"blacks had been members of the Mormon church since Smith was alive."
You sound a bit patronizing; as this membership was riddled with restrictions. These people were hardly equal to their fellow "church" members.
I'll call you on this statement and say I don't believe you. "I had two mormon females come to my house, sit on my couch, and tell me that I was cursed because I was black." I don't believe you because two black Mormon missionaries of the last several decades would know not a single individual today lives by a curse or is cursed in that respect. So your two black female Mormon missionaries are liars of what wasn't taught to them. So you have a right to look up the branch president number, tell him of the incident with date and place and description and he would check into it. But like I said, I don't believe you and think you are just telling a story for effect. Missionaries are out to proclaim the gospel of Jesus, not to come into a home and sit and tell you your cursed when that statement is an actual lie. Telling some one their cursed would offend a prospect their trying to gain for baptism and conversion.

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#6
Mar 24, 2013
 
gardennymph2013 wrote:
It is Brigham Young's beliefs that the church were under that stated Cain was cursed black for killing Abel, blacks are cursed because of Cain, blacks are cursed because of Ham. I had two mormon females come to my house, sit on my couch, and tell me that I was cursed because I was black.
So, yeah, blacks were let in as second-class members, if that. They were not allowed to participate in the churches sacred rites and were not allowed to become priest and priestesses. And the only reason they changed their philosophy was because as I said, they did not want to lose their tax-exempt status.
I now further understand that it has been neither confirmed or denied formally by Jimmy Carter or the Mormon church that they were threatened with the loss of their tax-exempt status, however, it is widely believed that they were because of Rex Lee's ( a mormon attorney, a Solicitor General at the time) argument over race and tax status with the IRS prior to this believed threat.
I can't understand a black mormon for the life of me. It's like a black muslim.
You said:
"blacks had been members of the Mormon church since Smith was alive."
You sound a bit patronizing; as this membership was riddled with restrictions. These people were hardly equal to their fellow "church" members.
Patronizing? No. Short of patience for people that state anything that sounds good to them about Mormons even if it's inaccurate, yeah, I'm guilty of that.
First, historians Mormon and not Mormon have scoured the records. They have as yet of today found the one single person that said blacks of African descent couldn't be priesthood holders. These historians have found evidence where certain officials began to ask about the curse that pertained to the priesthood, not skin colour. They realized that with certain cultures, it could not be told who was of the lineage of Cain and who wasn't. So because of this question, blacks/dark skinned people holding the priesthood was not allowed till the issue could be resolved. Even Young stated the priesthood curse might one day be removed but he doubted it would be in his day. Other prophets said the same thing.
What people don't know, is this issue of blacks not holding the priesthood weighed heavily with Kimball long before he was an apostle/prophet of that church. When an apostle, he prayed about the matter much. When an apostle he continued to pray about the matter before it ever became a national issue.
Next, the US government can't force a religion to not have racial and or ethnic discriminating policies. It's against the constitution and the freedom of religion for any part of the US government to even make a move in that direction. They did it once in the early 1900s over the issue of polygamy, over stepping the right of freedom of religion. The US government and or SCOTUS has never went there again in over a century. Ministers that still won't marry interracial couples don't lose their tax exempt status for going against established law and you'll find many of these ministers in black and white southern America.

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#7
Mar 24, 2013
 

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gardennymph2013 wrote:
So, yeah, blacks were let in as second-class members, if that. They were not allowed to participate in the churches sacred rites and were not allowed to become priest and priestesses. And the only reason they changed their philosophy was because as I said, they did not want to lose their tax-exempt status.
I now further understand that it has been neither confirmed or denied formally by Jimmy Carter or the Mormon church that they were threatened with the loss of their tax-exempt status, however, it is widely believed that they were because of Rex Lee's ( a mormon attorney, a Solicitor General at the time) argument over race and tax status with the IRS prior to this believed threat.
I can't understand a black mormon for the life of me. It's like a black muslim.
You said:
"blacks had been members of the Mormon church since Smith was alive."
You sound a bit patronizing; as this membership was riddled with restrictions. These people were hardly equal to their fellow "church" members.
I'm amazed that you sound amazed that during the first 270 years that in a God fearing white Christian Bible based nation where blacks and other colours and ethnic groups were treated as second class citizens by Christianity as a whole, you find offense with Mormons. I lived in the North and South as a child and in the 60s and 70s I saw blacks, natives and Asians sitting in the back pews and whites in the front pews and they did it as if on cue and no one practised out right racism in those Methodist, Presbyterian and Baptist churches. And I heard those white ministers from Georgia to Montana teach the curse of Cain was black/dark skin. They always followed that point out with the genealogy in the Bible that in their opinion showed where the lineage of Cain ended up at, the middle east and Africa.
Well, that lineage trail, correct or incorrect is ignored by Christian ministers today. They won't even make a reference to it for fear of being called a racist. But if you enter a black Christian church in a black community today what colour is God? Black. In a native Christian church he's native. In a Asian Christian church he's Asian. That's racism at it's finest also.
Personally, I think God does have a colour. But I know none of us are his colour because his is a perfection of colour and our's are an imperfection of colour. So God's colour doesn't worry me as much as doing what he says to do is my concern.
I knew some Moorish Science guys once. One would tell me with all the conviction of his mind that I had cursed skin. That God was black and black was God's colour. He was undecided if other colours were curses or not.
I had never thought of that before as he reasoned it. So I considered what he said and thought okay, let's say God is black and my skin colour was the result of a curse of someone that was my kin thousands of years ago. Hmmm, okay, I could go with it. At death I would be black again.
And that is when I really began to consider God's colour as being white/Caucasian I have always thought God looked like me. We all think God looks the way we do no matter what our colour is I reasoned. Than I thought but if God is perfect in every way and we aren't, than neither are we the colour of God.
Since then, I'll speak of it in discussion but I let the colour of God be a topic to those that find it important to give him a colour.
Jimmuh Cahtuh

Canton, GA

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Mar 24, 2013
 

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I love thuh black man. When I was a young man in Plains Jawjuh I recall all the oversized black women allowin me to eat from between those big hamhock, tree trunk legs becawz their man wouldnt do it.

Yes...Im a nigguh lovuh.
Anonymous

Woodbridge, VA

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#9
Apr 5, 2013
 
Wow. I'm just finding your most recent posts. I'm going to post what I finally got to finish despite your asinine behavior, just becuase I should. First off:

"Get a clue on"??? Okay, I don't what that means. Anyway,

It's two weeks later. When I started this, it was one week later, then a week and a half later.... sorry for the late response, but it's given me time to think. I'd like to start off by saying:

I apologize.

However...

Though Joseph Smith did allow blacks in the church and ordained them to priesthood, the Mormon church in Utah did not.(Elijah Abel) They would not accept his status in the church because they believed his blood was tainted and that their skin was cursed.(Curse of Cain) They would let them in the church, but they were not allowed into the priesthood and were denied the rites that went along with it. It is well documented the hurt, shock, and humilation Elijah Abel felt upon entering Utah by the treatment he received from his fellow Mormon brothers. Blacks in that church up to 1978 were not on equal status with their white church members. Even after 1978, there were still racist acts and beliefs documented by blacks.

And that argument about Jimmy Carter being responsible for forcing blacks to hold higher positions in the church was never formally confirmed or denied, as I also said. There is no hard evidence to prove this (all I've found is circumstancial) however, I strongly believe it was one of a few reasons that the ban was lifted. It's a little hard to believe that Spencer Kimball's sudden "revelation" around this time was true. The mormon church had spent 50 million dollars on a huge complex in South America. I understand at that time, the most conversions and baptisms were taking place in South America. However, the people were too racially mixed. The population had a great amount of negro or African ancestry.(curse of cain) This presented a huge dilemna according to your past? church doctrine, and the people of Brazil would not have been able to run or lead the very church being built for them (no priesthood). Along with the pressure of the Civil rights movement, the stand in's, riots, and altercations at BYU, the mormon church was being called out on it's exclusion policy towards blacks. So the major premise of my arguement here is that the church did not lift the ban out of philanthropy or fraternity. It seems you did it out of financial and political pressures and because you were forced to, the Brazilian situation being the majority of the force.

Also, I know that your church is tax exempt. However, the little joke that I made in my initial comment calling your church Mormon Inc., was just that. The church would not lose the status, but any real estate it leases out, donated funds, the non-profit organizations, and any of its holdings. That's what I meant. It just sounds like a great incentive to me, that's all.

Oh, and those females that came to my house to tell me I was cursed because I'm black, that was betweeen 2000-2001. They did talk about Joseph Smith in the garden with god and jesus in some part of New York. And then proceeded to tell me that I was cursed with black skin. Like I said, this was in 2000-2001.

Again, I do apologize for offending you (it seems like I did). I don't want to argue with you over your faith, it is yours and I'll respect that. In fact, I feel badly about even coming back in here. If I didn't feel the need to apologize and make myself clear, I would not have responded at all. I came back in here only to finish what I started and to apologize for the first statement I made. It was rather snarky and a bit in poor taste, so I am sorry.
Anonymous

Woodbridge, VA

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#10
Apr 5, 2013
 
Oh, and I don't not have to lie about those two women. In fact, I can give you the location of the church they attended if you like. I don't have to lie about anything.
Anonymous

Woodbridge, VA

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#11
Apr 5, 2013
 
"Get a clue on"??? Okay, I don't what that means. Anyway,

It's two weeks later. When I started this, it was one week later, then a week and a half later.... sorry for the late response, but it's given me time to think. I'd like to start off by saying:

I apologize.

However...

Though Joseph Smith did allow blacks in the church and ordained them to priesthood, the Mormon church in Utah did not.(Elijah Abel) They would not accept his status in the church because they believed his blood was tainted and that their skin was cursed.(Curse of Cain) They would let them in the church, but they were not allowed into the priesthood and were denied the rites that went along with it. It is well documented the hurt, shock, and humilation Elijah Abel felt upon entering Utah by the treatment he received from his fellow Mormon brothers. Blacks in that church up to 1978 were not on equal status with their white church members. Even after 1978, there were still racist acts and beliefs documented by blacks.

And that argument about Jimmy Carter being responsible for forcing blacks to hold higher positions in the church was never formally confirmed or denied, as I also said. There is no hard evidence to prove this (all I've found is circumstancial) however, I strongly believe it was one of a few reasons that the ban was lifted. It's a little hard to believe that Spencer Kimball's sudden "revelation" around this time was true. The mormon church had spent 50 million dollars on a huge complex in South America. I understand at that time, the most conversions and baptisms were taking place in South America. However, the people were too racially mixed. The population had a great amount of negro or African ancestry.(curse of cain) This presented a huge dilemna according to your past? church doctrine, and the people of Brazil would not have been able to run or lead the very church being built for them (no priesthood). Along with the pressure of the Civil rights movement, the stand in's, riots, and altercations at BYU, the mormon church was being called out on it's exclusion policy towards blacks. So the major premise of my arguement here is that the church did not lift the ban out of philanthropy or fraternity. It seems you did it out of financial and political pressures and because you were forced to, the Brazilian situation being the majority of the force.

Also, I know that your church is tax exempt. However, the little joke that I made in my initial comment calling your church Mormon Inc., was just that. The church would not lose the status, but any real estate it leases out, donated funds, the non-profit organizations, and any of its holdings. That's what I meant. It just sounds like a great incentive to me, that's all.

Oh, and those females that came to my house to tell me I was cursed because I'm black, that was betweeen 2000-2001. They did talk about Joseph Smith in the garden with god and jesus in some part of New York. And then proceeded to tell me that I was cursed with black skin. Like I said, this was in 2000-2001.

Again, I do apologize for offending you (it seems like I did). I don't want to argue with you over your faith, it is yours and I'll respect that. In fact, I feel badly about even coming back in here. If I didn't feel the need to apologize and make myself clear, I would not have responded at all. I came back in here only to finish what I started and to apologize for the first statement I made. It was rather snarky and a bit in poor taste, so I am sorry.
Anonymous

Woodbridge, VA

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#12
Apr 5, 2013
 
Excuse the first sentence in the response. I didn't mean for the "asinine behavior" statement to go in the response to "No Surprise". Please disregard the first statement of the response and read the rest. There was some sort of weird delay that caused that to happen and made the entire text repeat. Sorry.

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#13
Apr 5, 2013
 
gardennymph2013 wrote:
Wow. I'm just finding your most recent posts. I'm going to post what I finally got to finish despite your asinine behavior, just becuase I should. First off:
"Get a clue on"??? Okay, I don't what that means. Anyway,
It's two weeks later. When I started this, it was one week later, then a week and a half later.... sorry for the late response, but it's given me time to think. I'd like to start off by saying:
I apologize.
No apology needed but thanks.
I know how Mormons were and probably still are to a large part concerning the curse of Cain and Ham's offspring. I had a friend who went through SLC in the 70s and he'd laugh when white Mormon moms moved their kids away from him or how a little white kid in a store asked him where his tail was. Stupidity comes in many many forms.
I said get a clue because for you to believe Jimmy Carter threatened to take away tax exempt status is a really bad rumour, just like that really bad rumour the little white Mormon kid was taught blacks had tails.
Jimmy Carter couldn't do anything to the Mormon church or any other church, not legally.
Anonymous

Woodbridge, VA

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#14
Apr 5, 2013
 
Oh this thing drives me nuts!!(the computer) But at least you know I wasn't calling you asinine. I really wasn't.:-)

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#15
Apr 5, 2013
 
gardennymph2013 wrote:
However...
Though Joseph Smith did allow blacks in the church and ordained them to priesthood, the Mormon church in Utah did not.(Elijah Abel) They would not accept his status in the church because they believed his blood was tainted and that their skin was cursed.(Curse of Cain) They would let them in the church, but they were not allowed into the priesthood and were denied the rites that went along with it. It is well documented the hurt, shock, and humilation Elijah Abel felt upon entering Utah by the treatment he received from his fellow Mormon brothers. Blacks in that church up to 1978 were not on equal status with their white church members. Even after 1978, there were still racist acts and beliefs documented by blacks.
And that argument about Jimmy Carter being responsible for forcing blacks to hold higher positions in the church was never formally confirmed or denied, as I also said. There is no hard evidence to prove this (all I've found is circumstancial) however, I strongly believe it was one of a few reasons that the ban was lifted. It's a little hard to believe that Spencer Kimball's sudden "revelation" around this time was true. The mormon church had spent 50 million dollars on a huge complex in South America. I understand at that time, the most conversions and baptisms were taking place in South America. However, the people were too racially mixed. The population had a great amount of negro or African ancestry.(curse of cain) This presented a huge dilemna according to your past? church doctrine, and the people of Brazil would not have been able to run or lead the very church being built for them (no priesthood). Along with the pressure of the Civil rights movement, the stand in's, riots, and altercations at BYU, the mormon church was being called out on it's exclusion policy towards blacks. So the major premise of my arguement here is that the church did not lift the ban out of philanthropy or fraternity. It seems you did it out of financial and political pressures and because you were forced to, the Brazilian situation being the majority of the force.
Also, I know that your church is tax exempt. However, the little joke that I made in my initial comment calling your church Mormon Inc., was just that. The church would not lose the status, but any real estate it leases out, donated funds, the non-profit organizations, and any of its holdings. That's what I meant. It just sounds like a great incentive to me, that's all.
Oh, and those females that came to my house to tell me I was cursed because I'm black, that was betweeen 2000-2001. They did talk about Joseph Smith in the garden with god and jesus in some part of New York. And then proceeded to tell me that I was cursed with black skin. Like I said, this was in 2000-2001.
It was rather snarky and a bit in poor taste, so I am sorry.
I have no problem discussing Mormonism, even if you're a bit snarky as your termed it ;)
Blacks and the church is a tough thing to discuss. People now think our ancestors should have better common sense than to enslave each other etc.
Young was different about his belief of the African than was Smith. Young was a classic example of how most white America in the 1800s thought about blacks. White America was convinced blacks and native Indians were hardly intelligent and didn't even think of them as humans as they saw themselves.
With that train of thinking being fostered by whites for several centuries and more, I don't find it surprising whites had racial and discriminatory thinking for such a long time. Especially among early Christians in America.
Anonymous

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#16
Apr 5, 2013
 
I was aiming at that "jimmuh catnuh" whatever person with the asinine remark.

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#17
Apr 5, 2013
 
gardennymph2013 wrote:
Oh, and I don't not have to lie about those two women. In fact, I can give you the location of the church they attended if you like. I don't have to lie about anything.
I did give two options. One you told a story/lie for effect and two, what you claimed was true and the missionaries you saw had no business being on a mission.
I'm not a member. But I have seen a lot of missionaries. And if Cain's curse was such an important aspect of the gospel, I would think I would have heard something said concerning it and I never have, not by missionaries.
And I like to think I understand humans pretty well, but I can't fathom how two female missionaries telling you that you are cursed has anything thing to do with convincing you of the gospel as they teach it.

Since: May 11

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#18
Apr 5, 2013
 
Dont forget the Lamanite Israelites were cursed black too.

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#19
Apr 6, 2013
 
Punchojr wrote:
Dont forget the Lamanite Israelites were cursed black too.
Try this one ... lol

A CURSE AGAINST PROTESTANTS (EXCERPTS)

One of the authorized curses published in the Romish Pontifical, to be used against Protestants, reads as follows: May God Almighty and all His saints curse them with the curse with which the devil and his angels are cursed.

Let all they have be cursed. Always and everywhere let them be cursed. Speaking and silent let them be cursed. Within and without let them be cursed.

From the crown of the head to the sole of the foot let them be cursed. Let all the members of their body be cursed.

Cursed let them be, standing or lying, from this time forth forever; and thus let their candle be extinguished in the presence of God, at the day of judgement.

This is the spirit of Papacy; and all who possess the spirit of the true Christ should readily recognize so base a counterfeit.
David

Oak Park, MI

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#20
Apr 20, 2013
 
That Pontifical doesn't go back and try to rewrite the book of Genesis to throw it in there as some kind of historical fact.

Get the heck outta here.

Joseph Smith tried to misrepresent Moses, Abraham and fabricate the mark of Cain as some kind of actual skin color curse. You sit here and go and look up a Pontifical... yet at the same time, many Mormons (you probably included) think that blacks WERE ACTUALLY CURSED!
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Try this one ... lol
A CURSE AGAINST PROTESTANTS (EXCERPTS)
One of the authorized curses published in the Romish Pontifical, to be used against Protestants, reads as follows: May God Almighty and all His saints curse them with the curse with which the devil and his angels are cursed.
Let all they have be cursed. Always and everywhere let them be cursed. Speaking and silent let them be cursed. Within and without let them be cursed.
From the crown of the head to the sole of the foot let them be cursed. Let all the members of their body be cursed.
Cursed let them be, standing or lying, from this time forth forever; and thus let their candle be extinguished in the presence of God, at the day of judgement.
This is the spirit of Papacy; and all who possess the spirit of the true Christ should readily recognize so base a counterfeit.

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