Joseph Smith's marriages to young women

[Robert Fields]

While i am not yet ready to agree Fanny Alger was a plural wife of Joseph Smith. But if she was she was 16 when she married Joseph Smith. In Sacred Lonliness pg.4) The link to this FAIR Wiki article brings out some interesting facts about marrying young back then. http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith%27s_mar... It was socially, and legally acceptable back then to marry a 16 year old. The 1850 Census chart in the article utterly lays waste to the charge Joseph Smith was a pedophilw Just like Warren Jeffs. "Of note is that 41.7% of women married as teenagers compared to only 4.1% of men. The mean age for men was more than five years older than that for women (27.6 vs.22.5). For Young women, marriage in the early to mid teens was rare, but not unheard of as both the anectdotal and statistical evidence avove show. Teenage brides married a husband that averaged 6.6+/-4.7 (std) years older. To put that in perspective, 13% of the time the husband was over 10 years older than his teenage wife.

In Joseph Smith's day most states had the age of consent at 10.

With Helen Mar Kimball Todd Compton feel's "there is absolutely no evidence that there was any sexuality in the marriage, and I suggest that following later practice in Utah, there may have been no sexuality.(p.638) All the evidence points to this marriage as a primarily dynastic marriage."

[Robert Fields]

Bump

[Elder Dalton]

I agree with you here

[Robert Fields]

Being Community of Christ/RLDS i confess i have some leanings towards the former church position Joseph Smith was innocent of polygamy. http://www.restorationbookstore.org The church has broadened our views to allow for the idea Joseph Smith was guilty, but repented of it. The members who hold this position feel Joseph Smiths repentance if sincere got accepted as David's repentance.

Still other than some differences of interpretation between RLDS and LDS i don't see a big deal about marrying young back then. The FAIR article points out the polygamy would be unusual not marrying young at the time. Today society supposedly knows better so someone like Warren Jeffs has no modern excuse.

Now contrary to popular misrepresentation Joseph Smith 3rd (Joseph's son) was open to the idea his father was married to or sealed to a number of women for the eternity. He just felt that in Utah some of these women started misrepresenting their platonic relationship with Joseph Smith as something it was not. So traditional RLDS views on what happened have been mixed.

I have been making notes on Todd Compton's In Sacred Lonliness for a long time. I write in my books. I underline. I take other notes. And i do not see the evidence for sexuality in these marriages as unquestionable as he does. And even if if the sex happened was Joseph Smiths polygamy worse than David, and Solomon's?

[Robert Fields]

I am not into LDS are wrong and i am right on these marriages to young women. If by chance D.&C. 132 is a true revelation of God then Joseph Smith was not an adulterer. Of course its been one Community of Christ view the document had been altered to sanction earthly polygamy, and not just polygamy in the afterlife. The Joseph Kingsbury copy i hear is 7-8 pages. William Law said the copy he had seen was two or three pages foolscap. So that would give unless he was wrong room for textual tampering to have taken place.

With these teenagers they wern't teenagers when they testified about their alleged sexual connection with Joseph Smith. These women mentioned in the FAIR article were full grown adults. As such i am not questioning the testimony of teenagers, but full grown adult women.

[Elder Dalton]

Okay.

[Robert Fields]

Its been my goal not to be over-critical of the women in question. Whether any of them told the truth about the sexual aspects of the marriages in question or not really doesn't matter to me much. I am so inoculated on the polygamy information that it does not bother me as a subject. Nor does it decrease my respect for Joseph Smith if he had practice some earthly polygamy as claimed.

It is been mostly my goal to let people learn more than Joseph Smith's critics, or popular historians on Joseph Smith and polygamy are reporting.

The witnesses on the smaller size revelation may, or may not be reliable. The author's of book's like Mormon Enigma thought them credible enough to cite them in my books about the size of the copy Hyrum Smith had and the copy Whitney made of the Hyrum Smith copy. But they stop thinking and citing them beyond that. They leave out the fact William Law, and James Whithead accused the LDS copy to have been edited prior to publication in 1852. Though they confliced about what they said the subject of the revelation was.

I tell you this dispute can effect how we interpret documents. William McLellin in some letters to Joseph Smith 3rd claimed Emma had told him Joseph Smith burned the polygamy revelation. William no doubt if my witnesses if reliable was confusing the 1852 revelation with the one Joseph Kingsbury made. If Whithead was reliable the document at most sanctioned Joseph Smith being sealed to women for the afterlife, but not earthly polygamy.

Still considering several views are still possible i have to confess my views are not inerrant.

[Robert Fields]

Melissa Lott Willis-She was 19 when she was said to have married Joseph Smith. "104. Affidavit of Melissa Willes, August 3, 1893, as reproduced in Bailey, "Emma Hale," pp.98-100. In the Temple Lot Case (complete transcript), p.98,105, Melissa Willes emphatically stated that she was married to Joseph Smith for time and eternity, even if it was not officially so recorded, and she gave the room number in Smith's home where she allegedly spent the night with him." (Religion and Sexuality, The Shakers, the Mormons, and the Oneida Community by Lawrence Foster pg. 310)

I actually am looking for a copy of her affidavit in vain. Lawrence Foster leaves out Joseph Smith 3rd's response to her court testimony, and affidavit. His testimony whether right or wrong deserves to be cited as much as her testimony in regards to her claim.

[Robert Fields]

"I asked her a number of questions, and she did not state that she had lived with him as his wife, but on the contrary distinctly stated that she did not live with him as his wife. I asked her if he ever treated her as a wife, and she suggested that he did once, but nothing came of it. And I asked her why,(if she was properly married,) the relationship was not continued, and she did not think it was right. I asked her then if this took place in the Mansion House or in the old house, and she said that nothing ever went on in the Mansion, or in the old house." (Temple Lot Case pg.489 (Joseph Smith 3rd said more, but scholars like Todd Compton and Lawrence Foster leave to quotes out because it makes Melissa look bad. If she really told that to Joseph smith 3rd her affidavit cannot be trusted.

[MrZip]

Marrying young was more socially acceptable back then. it wasnt all that uncommon.

Polygamy was another matter. Even so, Joseph smiths methods I find a little suspect. well, alot suspect.

[Robert Fields]

In the Restoration Joseph smith revelations arn't auto-matically assumed to be of God. He felt that the Devil and man can be the source of inspiration. So before his revelations become scripture in the RLDS Church they undergo examination by the First Presidency, the twelve, Seventies ect. He supposedly had an angel with a drawn sword tell him to practice polygamy, or be destroyed. I hope he tested the angels gospel to make sure it was true.(Galatians 1:8,9) LDS feel he did. Community of Christ/RLDS feel he did not.

But being RLDS not LDS i feel Joseph Smith was innocent of the polygamy. So i am not certain fictuous methods wern't wrongly subscribed to him he had nothing to do with. http://www.re storationbookstore,org JSFP.

If Melissa realy told Joseph Smith 3rd the sex happened in a different place than she later claimed in her affidavit that hurts her credibility. These witnesses can only be trusted inasmuch as they are trustworthy. The few Temple lot claims from a few of the women saying they "roomed"(had sex) with Joseph Smith are popularly used to prove Joseph Smith had sex with her, Lucy Walker, and the Partridge sisters.

Test what they said.

[Elder Dalton]

Testing angelic beings is found in D&C 129 LDS

[Nicki]

Robert Fields wrote:

While i am not yet ready to agree Fanny Alger was a plural wife of Joseph Smith. But if she was she was 16 when she married Joseph Smith. In Sacred Lonliness pg.4) The link to this FAIR Wiki article brings out some interesting facts about marrying young back then. http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith%27s_mar... It was socially, and legally acceptable back then to marry a 16 year old. The 1850 Census chart in the article utterly lays waste to the charge Joseph Smith was a pedophilw Just like Warren Jeffs. "Of note is that 41.7% of women married as teenagers compared to only 4.1% of men. The mean age for men was more than five years older than that for women (27.6 vs.22.5). For Young women, marriage in the early to mid teens was rare, but not unheard of as both the anectdotal and statistical evidence avove show. Teenage brides married a husband that averaged 6.6+/-4.7 (std) years older. To put that in perspective, 13% of the time the husband was over 10 years older than his teenage wife.
In Joseph Smith's day most states had the age of consent at 10.
With Helen Mar Kimball Todd Compton feel's "there is absolutely no evidence that there was any sexuality in the marriage, and I suggest that following later practice in Utah, there may have been no sexuality.(p.638) All the evidence points to this marriage as a primarily dynastic marriage."

Blah blah blah

Men will rationalize anything for other men.

Why don't you throw in something from the age of the Tudors?

Or something with the Catholic Church back in that time?

Compare and contrast Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth, both daughters of King Henry VIII.

Change it up.

Get a new perspective.