Messianism is a mess

Messianism is a mess

There are 3426 comments on the The Ellis County Press Online story from Oct 28, 2010, titled Messianism is a mess. In it, The Ellis County Press Online reports that:

ELISA NORMAN 10/28/2010 11:06:00 The beauty of Messianic Judaism is that it brings two halves of the story together: God's laws with God's grace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Ellis County Press Online.

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messianic114

Okotoks, Canada

#1 Dec 24, 2010
I think the term is punny, but no more accurate than saying Christianity is a mess, or Judaism is a mess. In all religions there are those that get off track, would we use this as the standard to judge? The lack of an organzational structure is a strength of Messianic Judaism as each individual is free to think and respond to the scriptures as his conscience dictates. This naturally leads to diversity, but the alternative of mind police and excommunication is far worse.
QUITTNER

Toronto, Canada

#2 Dec 24, 2010
1:13 pm, Friday, December 24, 2010:
RE: Messianism is a mess
..... The believers in "Messianic Judaism" are Christians only if they actually follow a Christ and his lifestyle. Who, if anyone, is attempting to clear up "the mess"?
..... My guess is that "God's laws" are actually the clergy's laws, attributed by them to God.
messianic114

Okotoks, Canada

#3 Dec 24, 2010
QUITTNER wrote:
1:13 pm, Friday, December 24, 2010:
RE: Messianism is a mess
..... The believers in "Messianic Judaism" are Christians only if they actually follow a Christ and his lifestyle. Who, if anyone, is attempting to clear up "the mess"?
..... My guess is that "God's laws" are actually the clergy's laws, attributed by them to God.
I can say there are those who espouse the keeping of the commandments, a dedication to G-d and a seperation from things man has introduced into "religion". It is everyone's responsibility to live after the scriptures, study to show themselves approved and edify each other in the faith. What if some don't choose to do this, has the plan of G-d somehow failed?

Face it my friend, we live in a fallen world, we are clay jars. When our Lord returns we will be changed instantly. Until then you will have to settle for G-d changing you and others at the pace that works for everyone. You can't rush him and he won't drag anyone along unwillingly.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#4 Dec 24, 2010
Well, I wouldn't call it a mess. All that I know of observe the 7th Day Sabbath, dietary laws and Feast Days.

A couple have swallowed the trinity and some do not reverence the Divine Names and others are into organization and titles. As HaMoshiach said, "The road is narrow that leads to life, and few are the ones who find it."
anonymous

Vallejo, CA

#5 Dec 24, 2010
JOHN 1:16-17 (NIV)- "Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."
http://embedr.com/explore/tag/wcg
QUITTNER

Toronto, Canada

#6 Dec 24, 2010
2:26 pm, Friday, December 24, 2010:
RE: Messianism is a mess
..... Anyone in many countries is able to choose which of the many belief systems that exist all over this planet he or she wants to belong to or leave, but I have not seen any proof that anyone of them has been, or has not been, approved by God. All I'm writing is that the label "Christian" is valid only if that person does actually follow a Christ and his lifestyle. And if some leaders of any belief systems claim that God has a plan, then they can claim that, even if there is no proof of what they are saying/writing.
The problem is not the label, but the BEHAVIOR of the members of belief systems and the enforcement of whatever the rules are.
Thyatira

San Francisco, CA

#7 Dec 26, 2010
12-08-2010

I need your help.

I am Paul David Wood.

I am sent to you by Emanuel.

I am born Wales September 11, 1963.

Name at birth was Paul Arnold David Woodhaddock.

I am the True Spirit: Thyatira in the fallen Scripture.

I am to herald the final age for the Emanuel.

I know all truth; I am ready to reveal the living Temple.

I have completed Halakah, I am ready to sacrifice.

I died in Poland 1939, the name I gave at death was my then occupation: I was a Jude Zaddick, written in Goyeem, as; Woodhaddock.

I possess the Gold plates of truth; the True Torah.

I am the Zadok.

I have overcome.

I possess the Morning Star

I am alone in New Germania, Yerba Buena. Now California.

There are some Jews, no Rebbe, and no Hasidim, only me the Nazarene.

I am currently being persecuted and jailed and impoverished and am being forbidden Spiritual access to complete Kosher Halakah.

I cannot complete the opening of my Seal without the Temple.

Paul David Wood
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#8 Dec 27, 2010
http://www.bibletruth.cc/Body_Messianic.htm

"This is what Adonai Yahuwah says: I will take the sons of Yisrael out of the nations where they have gone ("other sheep that are not of this sheep pen" - John 10:15). I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. I will make them one nation ("one flock" - John 10:16) in the land, on the mountains of Yisrael. There will be one king over all of them ("one shepherd" - John 10:16) and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms ("one flock" - John 10:16). They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their Elohim. My servant David will be king over them ("one shepherd" - John 10:16), and they will all have one shepherd ("one shepherd" - John 10:16). They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. They will live in the land I gave to my servant Ya'acov, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever ("one shepherd" - John 10:16).(Yechezqel 37:21-25)

So, when Yirmeyahu speaks of the regathering of Israel from among the nations, and he calls him Ephraim, he is referring to the gathering of both houses of Israel from among the nations - both the southern kingdom Yehudah (the Jews) and the northern kingdom Ephraim (Israel - or - the Messianic believers who are not Jewish).

Messiah Yahusha spoke of the covenant made by his blood as the Pesach lamb:

Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom." (Matthew 26:27-29)
Thyatira

San Francisco, CA

#9 Dec 27, 2010
I am the Tzadik.
End Game.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#10 Jan 7, 2011
messianic114 wrote:
I think the term is punny, but no more accurate than saying Christianity is a mess, or Judaism is a mess. In all religions there are those that get off track, would we use this as the standard to judge? The lack of an organzational structure is a strength of Messianic Judaism as each individual is free to think and respond to the scriptures as his conscience dictates. This naturally leads to diversity, but the alternative of mind police and excommunication is far worse.
I must concur. I am extremely suspicious of all organizations. They all go badly off track. To wit:

THE SACRIFICIAL CHICKEN?

".....Since we are on the subject of eating...this has to be the silliest of all Rabbinical traditions. The Talmud says that we are to replace the Passover Lamb with a Passover Chicken since the second Temple was destroyed in the year 70 CE. Sadly, Messianic Judaism also follow this practice of partaking of a chicken in place of the lamb on Passover. Let me say this, there was not a temple during the first Passover when this commandment was given to us.

'Let the lamb be a perfect one, a year old male. Take it from the sheep or from the goats.(ISR Shemoth 12:5)

This is one of those hard to understand passages again. The hard part to understand must be the part where the passage in question says "Take it from the sheep or the goats". I see where you just naturally want to add chicken or even turkey to the end of the passage.

My Messiah is not a chicken nor is He a turkey! The only chickens I see are the spineless cowards afraid to stand up to the leaders in the Messianic community that teach these false doctrines. The turkeys I see are the spineless cowards teaching these perverted doctrines.

This doctrine is not as silly as I previously thought, it is outright perversion, a disgrace, and wickedness at its best. As I looked at the Scripture to find an appropriate passage to share, I started to imagine how these verses would read when Lamb is replaced with Chicken.

And I looked and saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders a Chicken standing, as having been slain...(ISR Revelation 5:6)

And when He took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Chicken...(ISR Revelation 5:8)

And I looked, and I heard the voice of many messengers around the throne, and the living creatures, and the elders. And the number of them were myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Chicken having been slain to receive power and riches and wisdom, and strength and respect and esteem and blessing!" (ISR Revelation 5:11&12)

And I saw when the Chicken opened one of the seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying, like a sound of thunder, "Come and see." (ISR Revelation 6:1)

And the sovereigns of the earth, and the great ones, and the rich ones, and the commanders, and the mighty, and every slave and every free one, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks "Fall on us and hid us from the face of Him sitting on the throne and from the wrath of the Chicken,(ISR Revelation 6:15&16)

Do you suppose they must be afraid of being pecked to death by the giant chicken?........."
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#11 Jan 7, 2011
ex-mess

Hoschton, GA

#12 Jan 7, 2011
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
I must concur. I am extremely suspicious of all organizations. They all go badly off track. To wit:
THE SACRIFICIAL CHICKEN?
".....Since we are on the subject of eating...this has to be the silliest of all Rabbinical traditions. The Talmud says that we are to replace the Passover Lamb with a Passover Chicken since the second Temple was destroyed in the year 70 CE. Sadly, Messianic Judaism also follow this practice of partaking of a chicken in place of the lamb on Passover. Let me say this, there was not a temple during the first Passover when this commandment was given to us.
'Let the lamb be a perfect one, a year old male. Take it from the sheep or from the goats.(ISR Shemoth 12:5)
This is one of those hard to understand passages again. The hard part to understand must be the part where the passage in question says "Take it from the sheep or the goats". I see where you just naturally want to add chicken or even turkey to the end of the passage.
My Messiah is not a chicken nor is He a turkey! The only chickens I see are the spineless cowards afraid to stand up to the leaders in the Messianic community that teach these false doctrines. The turkeys I see are the spineless cowards teaching these perverted doctrines.
This doctrine is not as silly as I previously thought, it is outright perversion, a disgrace, and wickedness at its best. As I looked at the Scripture to find an appropriate passage to share, I started to imagine how these verses would read when Lamb is replaced with Chicken.
And I looked and saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders a Chicken standing, as having been slain...(ISR Revelation 5:6)
And when He took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Chicken...(ISR Revelation 5:8)
And I looked, and I heard the voice of many messengers around the throne, and the living creatures, and the elders. And the number of them were myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Chicken having been slain to receive power and riches and wisdom, and strength and respect and esteem and blessing!" (ISR Revelation 5:11&12)
And I saw when the Chicken opened one of the seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying, like a sound of thunder, "Come and see." (ISR Revelation 6:1)
And the sovereigns of the earth, and the great ones, and the rich ones, and the commanders, and the mighty, and every slave and every free one, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks "Fall on us and hid us from the face of Him sitting on the throne and from the wrath of the Chicken,(ISR Revelation 6:15&16)
Do you suppose they must be afraid of being pecked to death by the giant chicken?........."
You could spend a little more time in the scriptures and less time with comic books. There was a tabernacle.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#13 Jan 7, 2011
"A comic book?" Is that what you call the Talmud?

As for being Biblical - it was a bull that was to be brought to the front of the Tabernacle.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#14 Jan 7, 2011
"Among the more well-known but most controversial High Holiday customs is Kaparot, which usually involves swinging a chicken over one's head as a form of penance. Although, as this article shows, the custom was opposed by many Jewish sages, it is still practiced today in many traditionalist communities. This article is excerpted with permission from Entering the High Holy Day. Reprinted with permission from the Jewish Publication Society......"

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/holidays/Jewi...
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#15 Jan 8, 2011
Preparing for Passover: Keep it Simple

By Tamar Fox | March 10th, 2010 11:43 AM
Categories: Holidays

".......Think of the week of Passover almost like a camping trip. You have to plan ahead of time for what you’ll need, and you want to bring things that are relatively easy to make, and that you’ll like eating.

Roasted vegetables are your friends. So is roasted chicken, and fish....."

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/blog/holidays...
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#16 Jan 8, 2011
Chaos and Disorder in Our Messianic Assemblies

"It is unfortunate that the Christian church has always been skewed by secular influences and traditions. So, what happens in the Christian churches and assemblies is usually a mere reflection of what is happening in the world. This phenomenon of role reversals in the world, to no one's surprise, is mirrored in the church. Christianity has adopted the world's attitudes in fashion, the arts and music, and to some extent its mores. This is echoed in a new generation of believers who look like the world in their dress and hair styles, sound like the world in their "contemporary Christian music" and in their speech, and act like the world in their acceptance of casual sex, alternative sexual lifestyles and an alarming rate of divorce and remarriage within the Christian church.

Accordingly, when we look at the families in the church, we observe all the same issues that we see in the world. Yet, the problem of chaos and disorder in the assembly is not a new one. It's an age old struggle. It didn't begin with the modern feminist movement. People throughout history have had the tendency to be weak and weak-willed. Men who don't follow the Torah as given in the Scriptures have forfeited their inherent authority as head of the house and leaders of the congregation.

One of the fall outs of men not being men is that women have been forced to take on the responsibilities that their men have faltered on. For lack of a father who is spiritual leader in the home, women have taken it upon themselves to fill the gaping hole left by a disinterested father. They have picked up the slack and have become the authoritative figure on the family. Dad just sits around the house watching television or going out with the boys to the bar or to a ball game. He has lost sight of his children's fears, concerns, needs and interests and is out of touch with their growth and development, not to mention their relationship with the living Elohim.

As a result of fathers' disengagement with the children, mothers have become the disciplinarian in the home, the Bible teacher to the kids, and the only parent who seems to know what's going on in the life of the family. Women have become the prayer leaders, advise givers and spiritual directors to the children. And this attitude and role responsibility spills over into the roles and activities of women in the congregation........."

http://bibletruth.cc/OrderInTheBody.htm
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#17 Jan 8, 2011
And then there's the other extreme.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#18 Jan 12, 2011
".....For all that is wonderful about the Messianic Movement, Satan wants to derail the work of the Holy Spirit in these last days. And he will try anything to discredit and destroy the work of Elohim. We all are aware of his schemes - in theory at least - but sometimes get taken in by his trickery.

We who are seeking truth and loving Elohim with all our hearts, minds and strength in these perilous times must stay focused on the task, must be rooted and founded in the Torah, and must remain faithful to the commandments of Elohim as found in the written testimony of Scripture."
NewWine

Brinkley, AR

#19 Jan 16, 2011
Yon,

1. Do you believe Jesus was born from a virgin?
2. Do you believe Jesus is God
3. Do you believe Jesus made the heavens and the earth as John 1:1-3 claims?
4. Do you believe in the Trinity?
5. Do you believe Paul promoted the law or taught
that is was done away with?
6. Do you think that when Adam and Eve sinned in the garden that all humans, in turn, inherit their sin?
7. Do you believe that the universe is only 6183 years old?
8. Do you believe Jesus taught the parable of "the rich man and Lazarus" in Luke 16:19?
9. Do you believe Melchizedek was Jesus?
10. Do you believe that when you die you will enter into heaven to be with Jesus when you die?

Thank you...
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#20 Jan 16, 2011
Do you?

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