Why are Jews liberal?
Roman

Delhi, India

#1 Apr 19, 2013
On the surface it might appear that Jews have at least 3 reasons to vote republican:

1. Republicans are stronger supporters of Israel
2. The anti-gay agenda and other republican values come from OLD testament
3. Jews are rich and republicans support lowering taxes for rich

Yet DESPITE THE ABOVE, the statistics shows that 80% of jews are democrate. One answer I got was that Judaism promotes charity work. True, but the same applies to Christianity. Yet Christians are republicans and Jews are democrate.

My theory as to why they do it is that they see themselves as "weak" due to holocaust. Thus they ignore the anti-gay passages of the Old Testament and lump themselves together with gays since they are both "persecutted". And likewise they are "too insecure" to "trust" right wing support of Israel and still believe they might be "persecuted" at some point. In other words, jews have that notion that they "can never win" and that's why they want to push an agenda that "the game doesn't matter" instead of saying "yes game matters but guess what: we are the winners".

Another support of the idea that jews are week is that they support gun control. Why? Probably because they know they can't fight so they are afraid of guns. And sure enough: I don't know of any jewish sports stars out there. Jews couldn't fight back during pogroms in Russia, nor were jews able to effectively resist Nazi soldiers during holocaust. Even more importantly: jews were never albe to get back their land and/or capture some other lands by fighting, throughout 2 millenia. They had to wait till NATO "hands them" the land and then America hands them all the ammunition. And that only happened after the world felt sorry for them due to holocaust, yet another pointer to their weekness.

So is there any wonder they support gun control? They are not the ones to fight well, so they are afraid of guns. The democrate party is a "party for a week". Democrates worry about "safety" -- whether that be safety from guns OR safety from "religious fanatics". Since jews know they can't win in either case, that's why they vote democrate.

And by the way, they have a lot in common with Americans in this respect. Everyone keeps saying "Americans are warmangers". I beg to disagree. I think Americans are cowards. That's why Americans are afraid of Iran more than any other country (besides Israel of course). Their desire to attack Iran is only the symptom of fear, period. The real manly man -- Putin -- is not afraid of Iran and that's why he opposed to any such military action. And now back to Jews -- why is Israel EVEN MORE afraid of Iran than America is? You guessed it: Israelis are cowards, that's why!

And don't forget: one main reason why America wages all these wars is to "spread democracy". Why? Well because Americans are week and they know THEY can't live without democracy, so they are projecting THEIR OWN weekness on others. That's why Americans wonder "how do all these pieceful citizens survive under oppressive governments?" Well they do because they are not as week as Americans are. But Americans simply don't get it, that's why they have all these wars to "rescue" them.

Sure, America is a super power, but this has nothing to do with the ability of its citizens to fight normal, hand-to-hand battle. Just take the fact that Americans aren't allowed to go to many day backpacking tour in the wilderness. They have to go to a "park" with a designated "campground". Well in Russia ppl don't even care about campground, they backpack in VERY TOUGH conditions that Americans wont dream of. Americans can't even open a can without can opener! I think jews and americans have a lot in common in that they are both puzzies, that's why they support each other.

Going back to the topic of liberalism, jews and Americans are BOTH very keen in supporting "gay rights". In other words, both Jews AND Amerians are trying to accommodate the losers instead of being the winners.
Eric

La Grange Park, IL

#2 Apr 19, 2013
The answer to your question is that we care.

We were on the forefront of the Black Civil Rights movement. We helped found the NAACP. Our kids died in the South along side the Blacks.(Weak?)

The Rosenwalds (Sears Roebuck) built garden apts in Chicago for the poor that are still in use.

The Pritzkers and Crowns have set up numerous charities.

All for the betterment of mankind.

So, the answer to your question is that after 2000 of discrimination by others, we aren't going to take it any more. We are going to stand with those who are also oppressed. You say that you survive under oppressive government? Well we refuse to live under oppressive governments and we will not let others oppress our fellow citizens. Why should we live without democracy? We refuse to do so.

That having been said, here's a list of Jewish sports figures,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_A...

and that's just the Americans
Roman

Delhi, India

#3 Apr 20, 2013
You wrote "So, the answer to your question is that after 2000 of discrimination by others, we aren't going to take it any more."

--- So in other words, you are ASSUMING that any oppressive government will also be anti-Semitic, just like it was for 2000 years. But that assumption might be wrong: a lot of right wing ppl today are racist YET they are pro-Israel DESPITE that. So don't you want to feel proud of the fact that FOR ONCE, after all these years, there is someone racist who DOES NOT hate jews? What you are saying is "we were playing this game for 2000 years and losing all this time, we can't take it any more, lets stop playing". But what I am telling you is "things changed now, maybe you will actually WIN this time". Well its true you don't like the game itself. Well I don't like chess either -- I avoid playing chess because I am afraid of losing -- HOWEVER,*IF* I have actually played chess and lost, THEN I would want to play it again to "make up" for losing by winning. So don't you want to play "discrimination game" again to show how this time jews won't be the "minorities" any more? Why mark yourself as perpetual minority (aka perpetual loser) by always siding with other minorities?
Eric

La Grange Park, IL

#4 Apr 20, 2013
Let's see:

Russian pogroms? Do you realize that a large number of Jews were at the forefront of the Russian revolution?

You do realize that the people in charge of Israel are largely Jews. How many battles have the Israelis won since 1948? As I said, not going to happen again.

Why should we want to be subjected to discrimination again? That's stupid. What are you some kind of masochist who wants to suffer?

Jews Care. That is why we are liberal. Jews Care.

As far as conservative support for Israel, have you ever considered that conservative people are largely very religious Christians? Do you understand that their prophecy requires that the Jews return to Israel before the second coming of Jesus? Do you understand that is why they support Israel--to swiften the second coming.
Roman

Delhi, India

#5 Apr 21, 2013
You wrote "Russian pogroms? Do you realize that a large number of Jews were at the forefront of the Russian revolution?"

--- Pogroms and revolution are still separate. The question is: why didn't the very jews who were attacked during the pogrom fight back? Sure, few years later they had revolution; but that didn't change the fact that during the pogrom itself they allowed Russians to injure or kill a lot of them without effectively defending themselves. Now, as far as Russian revolution goes, true the Jews who took part on it were strong, I grant you this one. But how many people took part in Russian revolution? That would be hundrids or at most a thousand -- which is a lot smaller than the total number of jews in the country. So that small percent of jewry was strong; but that doesn't change the statistics of jews being weak.

You wrote "You do realize that the people in charge of Israel are largely Jews. How many battles have the Israelis won since 1948? As I said, not going to happen again."

--- As far as Israel winning wars, it happened only because America handed them amunition. They were not able to take their land by force throughout 2 millenia. Why not? That, plus also they never won Iran for example (they are too afraid to attack Iran themselves and ask America to do it for them) they were only able to win the countries that are poorly armed themselves.

You wrote "Why should we want to be subjected to discrimination again? That's stupid. What are you some kind of masochist who wants to suffer?"

--- Once again, why are you assuming that people who make SOME MINORITIES suffer would also make Jews suffer? Here is the thing:

a) I agree that you should oppose anyone who makes Jews suffer or holds negative views of Jews in any other way.

b) However, I think you should consider people who make non-jewish minorities (such as black) suffer while allowing jews themselves to prosper. One example of such group is American Renaisance. This is a White Nationalist group that openly acknowledges Jews as White and in fact has several articles that speak positively of Jews.

You wrote "As far as conservative support for Israel, have you ever considered that conservative people are largely very religious Christians? Do you understand that their prophecy requires that the Jews return to Israel before the second coming of Jesus? Do you understand that is why they support Israel--to swiften the second coming."

--- I happened to be Christian myself, but in order to understand your logic I will try to go off of your premises. So if you believe Jesus to be false, then second coming wont happen "even if" Christians do the best they could to bring it about; if so, what are you afraid of? Now, something you SHOULD BE angry about is the fact that they kept saying for 2 millenia that "jews killed Jesus". Now in light of this, wouldn't you enjoy to see how that very Christianity claims that "jews are God's chosen". True, you don't believe in Christianity. But still, since Christianity is the religion that justified antisemitism, wouldn't you want to "undo it" by seeing Christianity (as opposed to anyone else) claiming jews to be God's chosen? Now, the ultimate proof that they view Jews as God's chosen "as opposed to" merely saying it "to gain their favor" is precisely the fact that they believe Jewish return to Israel is necessarily for second coming. They wouldn't possibly be able to believe in the latter if they didn't view Jews as chosen in some way. So, as a Jew, you have to be proud that they hold this belief. I realize you might say you don't care what they believe since you think their religion is false anyway. Well, but lets say some Christian tells you Jews killed Jesus, then yes you would care, even if that Christian doesn't persecute you, you would still care because of pride. So, for pride's sake, you should likewise enjoy the fact that Christians feel Jews are God's chosen.
Eric

La Grange Park, IL

#6 Apr 22, 2013
Roman wrote:
You wrote "Russian pogroms? Do you realize that a large number of Jews were at the forefront of the Russian revolution?"
--- Pogroms and revolution are still separate. The question is: why didn't the very jews who were attacked during the pogrom fight back? Sure, few years later they had revolution; but that didn't change the fact that during the pogrom itself they allowed Russians to injure or kill a lot of them without effectively defending themselves. Now, as far as Russian revolution goes, true the Jews who took part on it were strong, I grant you this one. But how many people took part in Russian revolution? That would be hundrids or at most a thousand -- which is a lot smaller than the total number of jews in the country. So that small percent of jewry was strong; but that doesn't change the statistics of jews being weak.

So weak that a small number toppled an empire.
Eric

La Grange Park, IL

#7 Apr 22, 2013
Roman wrote:
--- As far as Israel winning wars, it happened only because America handed them amunition. They were not able to take their land by force throughout 2 millenia. Why not? That, plus also they never won Iran for example (they are too afraid to attack Iran themselves and ask America to do it for them) they were only able to win the countries that are poorly armed themselves.
What matters where the impliments came from. The Jews themselves are the ones who have claimed victory time and time again.

As far as Iran is concerned, they are beating Iran through tech warfare.
Eric

La Grange Park, IL

#8 Apr 22, 2013
Roman wrote:
You wrote "Why should we want to be subjected to discrimination again? That's stupid. What are you some kind of masochist who wants to suffer?"
--- Once again, why are you assuming that people who make SOME MINORITIES suffer would also make Jews suffer?
This was your hypotheical not mine. You said that Jews should want to live again in an oppressive society so that they can prove that they can overcome it. Don't go changing the hypotheical.
Eric

La Grange Park, IL

#9 Apr 22, 2013
Roman wrote:
You wrote "As far as conservative support for Israel, have you ever considered that conservative people are largely very religious Christians? Do you understand that their prophecy requires that the Jews return to Israel before the second coming of Jesus? Do you understand that is why they support Israel--to swiften the second coming."
--- I happened to be Christian myself, but in order to understand your logic I will try to go off of your premises. So if you believe Jesus to be false, then second coming wont happen "even if" Christians do the best they could to bring it about; if so, what are you afraid of? Now, something you SHOULD BE angry about is the fact that they kept saying for 2 millenia that "jews killed Jesus". Now in light of this, wouldn't you enjoy to see how that very Christianity claims that "jews are God's chosen". True, you don't believe in Christianity. But still, since Christianity is the religion that justified antisemitism, wouldn't you want to "undo it" by seeing Christianity (as opposed to anyone else) claiming jews to be God's chosen? Now, the ultimate proof that they view Jews as God's chosen "as opposed to" merely saying it "to gain their favor" is precisely the fact that they believe Jewish return to Israel is necessarily for second coming. They wouldn't possibly be able to believe in the latter if they didn't view Jews as chosen in some way. So, as a Jew, you have to be proud that they hold this belief. I realize you might say you don't care what they believe since you think their religion is false anyway. Well, but lets say some Christian tells you Jews killed Jesus, then yes you would care, even if that Christian doesn't persecute you, you would still care because of pride. So, for pride's sake, you should likewise enjoy the fact that Christians feel Jews are God's chosen.
I'm only explaining why the conservatives support Israel. We see through their selfish desires and reject them.
Roman

Delhi, India

#10 Apr 23, 2013
You wrote "So weak that a small number toppled an empire."
--- The jews who were participating in revolution were strong. But they are only a small portion of jewry. The rest of the Jewish community is weak.
You wrote "What matters where the impliments came from. The Jews themselves are the ones who have claimed victory time and time again"
--- Okay let me ask you this: how come Jews ask American permission to do this or that? If you say they simply care about "world opinion", why are they not complaining about France being anti-Israel nearly as much as they complain about America asking them to withdraw troops. This shows that they are dependent on America in some way, which is not a "strong" position.
You wrote "As far as Iran is concerned, they are beating Iran through tech warfare."
--- Still the fact is that they are afraid of Iran more than any other country. This is evident from two things
1. They want to attack Iran while most other countries, such as Russia, don't see the threat.
2. They want Americans to do the attack for them. This shows in the fact that surveys indicate that most Israeli citizens are AGAINST Israel's attack on Iran and FOR american attack on Iran.
You wrote "
This was your hypotheical not mine. You said that Jews should want to live again in an oppressive society so that they can prove that they can overcome it. Don't go changing the hypotheical."
--- Then you misunderstood what I said. What I was trying to say is that they should prove they can overcome antisemitism by producing "racists" who look favorably on Jews and "only" discriminate against non-jewish minorities. In other words they should overcome the existence of antisemitism (through the demonstration above) as opposed to overcomming the actions of antisemites. If you have heart bleading liberals who defend jews "together with" other minorities that doesn't prove a point since they still view jews "on the same level" with blacks or gays, they simply say "there is nothing wrong with it". But if you have racists who hate blacks and gays and "at the same time" love Jews, THAT would prove something.
You wrote "I'm only explaining why the conservatives support Israel. We see through their selfish desires and reject them."
--- Everyone is selfish in some way. The question you have to ask yourself is what leads them to believe that their selfish desires will be satisfied by helping Jews? Is the underlying belief anti-semitic or philo-semitic? So if they say "jews control world market so we better please them" then the premise is anti-semitic, so you shouldn't support it. On the other hand, if they say "jews are Gods chosen so I better please them" then the premise is philo-semitic so you should enjoy it. Now in case of bringing second coming they assume jews are God's chosen (if they were not, they won't have been necessary for second coming, would they), so you should enjoy the premise that they are God's chosen, even though you don't believe in second coming itself.
Eric

La Grange Park, IL

#11 Apr 24, 2013
Roman wrote:
--- Okay let me ask you this: how come Jews ask American permission to do this or that?
never bite the hand that feeds you.
Eric

La Grange Park, IL

#12 Apr 24, 2013
Roman wrote:
--- Still the fact is that they are afraid of Iran more than any other country. This is evident from two things
1. They want to attack Iran while most other countries, such as Russia, don't see the threat.
2. They want Americans to do the attack for them. This shows in the fact that surveys indicate that most Israeli citizens are AGAINST Israel's attack on Iran and FOR american attack on Iran.
Iran disagrees with you http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/04/22/29968...
Eric

La Grange Park, IL

#13 Apr 24, 2013
Roman wrote:
You wrote "
This was your hypotheical not mine. You said that Jews should want to live again in an oppressive society so that they can prove that they can overcome it. Don't go changing the hypotheical."
--- Then you misunderstood what I said. What I was trying to say is that they should prove they can overcome antisemitism by producing "racists" who look favorably on Jews and "only" discriminate against non-jewish minorities. In other words they should overcome the existence of antisemitism (through the demonstration above) as opposed to overcomming the actions of antisemites. If you have heart bleading liberals who defend jews "together with" other minorities that doesn't prove a point since they still view jews "on the same level" with blacks or gays, they simply say "there is nothing wrong with it". But if you have racists who hate blacks and gays and "at the same time" love Jews, THAT would prove something.
This is morally repugnant.
Eric

La Grange Park, IL

#14 Apr 24, 2013
Roman wrote:
You wrote "I'm only explaining why the conservatives support Israel. We see through their selfish desires and reject them."
--- Everyone is selfish in some way. The question you have to ask yourself is what leads them to believe that their selfish desires will be satisfied by helping Jews? Is the underlying belief anti-semitic or philo-semitic? So if they say "jews control world market so we better please them" then the premise is anti-semitic, so you shouldn't support it. On the other hand, if they say "jews are Gods chosen so I better please them" then the premise is philo-semitic so you should enjoy it. Now in case of bringing second coming they assume jews are God's chosen (if they were not, they won't have been necessary for second coming, would they), so you should enjoy the premise that they are God's chosen, even though you don't believe in second coming itself.
The Christian New Testament relies on the Jews reclaiming Israel. Therefore, conservative Christians care not about chosen people. They only want the condition precedent to having the second coming.

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