was jesus worshipped?

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#1825 Jan 14, 2013
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe Jesus SPEAKS (present tense in past, presnt and future) and also in capital letters. But, if I were you, I won't even dare to ask a silly question like that!
IHV WHEN misa started posting here many believed him/her/it to be confused then she/he/it started talking and proved it
will

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#1826 Jan 14, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask it in another way, if you care to tell us. As far as you know, what language were the gospels first written in?
ihv watchtowrese?
will
Rudi

Linlithgow, UK

#1827 Jan 14, 2013
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Rudi,
Who are the nations that Satan is prevented from deceiving while he is sealed in the abyss?
Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
This indicates that the whole earth is going to populated by the nations, while Satan is sealed in the abyss for the thousand years.
The earth will be indeed populated with dead bodies (peoples from all nations), the bodies of the wicked which were killed by the glory of Jesus Christ at the second coming.

Satan and his host (his angels) being bound to earth (the abyss or bottomless pit) will have to contemplate the consequence of his (their) work(s) and will have no power to deceive as the wicked (peoples from all nations) will be dead (destroyed by the brightness of the glory of Jesus). This will last for a thousand years.
Rudi

Linlithgow, UK

#1828 Jan 14, 2013
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
IHV WHEN misa started posting here many believed him/her/it to be confused then she/he/it started talking and proved it
will
He is very confused!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#1829 Jan 14, 2013
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
But let me ask you again,
Why aren't ordinary JWs allowed to do the same? How do you explain that? Don't you think this is disgusting? If the WTS has the truth, they shouldn't need to worry if you are reading material from other denominations! Or won't have a shying policy!
Rudi,

The reason that we don't accept literature from others, is simply because there are many groups that publish and print literature that is especially designed to create doubt, and most all of these types of literature are directed squarely at Jehovah's Witnesses.

We have the example of the serpent in the garden, that approached Eve, and that serpent slyly injected doubt into Eve's thinking.

She began to have doubts about what she knew to be true, as she even explained to the serpent what God had said regarding the tree. But she kept thinking about what the serpent had said, and after some time began to look upon the tree as something desireable. She wondered if knowing good and bad, would make her become like God. Finally she gave in to her doubts, and began eating from that tree.

I don't mind reading Bible based literature regarding what others feel is what the Scriptures teach. Many times if I'm waiting say, at a doctors office, I will pick up other religious literature that is there. I have no qualms about reading such materials.

But anything published by ex-JWs or other groups that have published literature especially directed at Jehovah's Witnesses, I don't even consider it.

I will discuss the Scriptures with you, but when you start copy and pasting material from anti-JW sites, I simply pass over.
Rudi

Linlithgow, UK

#1830 Jan 14, 2013
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Rudi,
The reason that we don't accept literature from others, is simply because there are many groups that publish and print literature that is especially designed to create doubt, and most all of these types of literature are directed squarely at Jehovah's Witnesses.
We have the example of the serpent in the garden, that approached Eve, and that serpent slyly injected doubt into Eve's thinking.
She began to have doubts about what she knew to be true, as she even explained to the serpent what God had said regarding the tree. But she kept thinking about what the serpent had said, and after some time began to look upon the tree as something desireable. She wondered if knowing good and bad, would make her become like God. Finally she gave in to her doubts, and began eating from that tree.
I don't mind reading Bible based literature regarding what others feel is what the Scriptures teach. Many times if I'm waiting say, at a doctors office, I will pick up other religious literature that is there. I have no qualms about reading such materials.
But anything published by ex-JWs or other groups that have published literature especially directed at Jehovah's Witnesses, I don't even consider it.
I will discuss the Scriptures with you, but when you start copy and pasting material from anti-JW sites, I simply pass over.
So, why are you, JWs, then reading materials from other websites that are specially directed at JWs by others over even ex-JWs? So as I can see, you, JWs, on this forum are doing it. You are even discussing topics on forums with ex-JWs. How is that?

Yet, when I asked JWs to read a book to have their opinion, they refused by saying that they don't read materials from other denominations. Some even said they are not allowed to do that.

I don't understand!

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1831 Jan 14, 2013
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Miseracord, you didn't answer my question posted on my previous post; it looks like you try to avoid it!
What strikes me is that when you are studying with JWs and you offer them a book to read to have their opinion on it, they refuse by saying that they don't read other materials than from the WTS. Some JWs told me they are not allowed to read materials from other denominations. However, you are reading all sorts of websites and you are on different kind of forums even with so-called apostates (ex-witnesses).
But let me ask you again,
Why aren't ordinary JWs allowed to do the same? How do you explain that? Don't you think this is disgusting? If the WTS has the truth, they shouldn't need to worry if you are reading material from other denominations! Or won't have a shying policy!
But, since you read the truth on all other websites (including www.whiteestate.org ) and now you know the truth, which you wholeheartedly reject simply because you chose to believe the WTS' falsehoods, you will have no excuse on the Day of Judgement.
Therefore, I believe we have nothing to discuss anymore, as it would be waste of time. Time is very precious and would be better to invest it in prayer, fasting and in helping those who thirst and hunger for the truth.
"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Mark 2:17, KJV)
Know the truth about Ellen G. White? Do you believe what Ellen G. White wrote? I really do not 'know' her teachings, but are you saying you are believing what Ellen G. White wrote?
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#1832 Jan 14, 2013
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Richard, I am not interested what Trinitarian or others have to say unless it is according to the Scriptures; I am only interested what the Word of God tells me.
The Scriptures are interpreting itself; so, I compare Scripture with Scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20, KJV) PERIOD!
Well said, Rudy.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#1833 Jan 14, 2013
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Rudi,
The reason that we don't accept literature from others, is simply because there are many groups that publish and print literature that is especially designed to create doubt, and most all of these types of literature are directed squarely at Jehovah's Witnesses.
We have the example of the serpent in the garden, that approached Eve, and that serpent slyly injected doubt into Eve's thinking.
She began to have doubts about what she knew to be true, as she even explained to the serpent what God had said regarding the tree. But she kept thinking about what the serpent had said, and after some time began to look upon the tree as something desireable. She wondered if knowing good and bad, would make her become like God. Finally she gave in to her doubts, and began eating from that tree.
I don't mind reading Bible based literature regarding what others feel is what the Scriptures teach. Many times if I'm waiting say, at a doctors office, I will pick up other religious literature that is there. I have no qualms about reading such materials.
But anything published by ex-JWs or other groups that have published literature especially directed at Jehovah's Witnesses, I don't even consider it.
I will discuss the Scriptures with you, but when you start copy and pasting material from anti-JW sites, I simply pass over.
All from the wts. They are afraid you will see the lies of the WT ,It is that simple and goes along with not going to college.. The org is afraid of truth and losing control of their followers for once you know the truth you are set free and the control of false teachers are gone. and they lose their free labor. It all comes down to money and has nothing to do with the truth of God as they spin their lies to hock the innocent.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1835 Jan 14, 2013
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Miseracord, you didn't answer my question posted on my previous post; it looks like you try to avoid it!
What strikes me is that when you are studying with JWs and you offer them a book to read to have their opinion on it, they refuse by saying that they don't read other materials than from the WTS.
For me, I do not take literature from most persons when I visit them, but I will come back and discuss the points in their literature with them, using the Bible, fair and square conversation, if they'd like. Once it gets to insulting the Watchtower, however, I stop, and that's where the discussion usually goes in those circumstances. I will not, however, read or discuss apostate literature meant to demean and put Jehovah's Witnesses down. One time I did take something from a Seventh Day Adventist. She was very nice. She was one of my business clients. I read the pamphlet all the way through, and then the clincher was something about Christmas -- and persecution -- and how JW's are not the only ones persecuted, and it's OK to celebrate Christmas. That did not come until the very end of the pamphlet. Look -- if you want to believe that, you go right ahead. I no longer feel the need to look at things like that in general, except to see what you are saying sometimes. As I said, though, I will discuss a person's ideas without the literature we use, if that's what they want, and use only the Bible.

When you first started asking questions, I thought you were really interested in having a conversation. But as time progressed, and you started insulting Jehovah's Witnesses, I can see that is not your aim, to discuss peaceably with us what the Bible says. However, despite the insults hurled at us, I will still reply upon occasion.
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Some JWs told me they are not allowed to read materials from other denominations. However, you are reading all sorts of websites and you are on different kind of forums even with so-called apostates (ex-witnesses).
But let me ask you again,
Why aren't ordinary JWs allowed to do the same? How do you explain that? Don't you think this is disgusting?
Not all former Witnesses are apostates, Rudi. And some people are taken by conspiracy theories, or gossip. New ones come up every day. For myself, I have found it redundant and not particularly beneficial to examine the lies and teachings of some here. I am more interested in discussing the Bible.
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
If the WTS has the truth, they shouldn't need to worry if you are reading material from other denominations! Or won't have a shying policy!
But, since you read the truth on all other websites (including www.whiteestate.org ) and now you know the truth, which you wholeheartedly reject simply because you chose to believe the WTS' falsehoods, you will have no excuse on the Day of Judgement.
Know the truth? About E.G. White?
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore, I believe we have nothing to discuss anymore, as it would be waste of time. Time is very precious and would be better to invest it in prayer, fasting and in helping those who thirst and hunger for the truth.
"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Mark 2:17, KJV)
OK, so don't answer any more questions. It's ok with me. But Ellen G. White's website? That's the official website you refer to in order to figure out that the "bottomless pit" Satan is confined to, is the earth?

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1836 Jan 14, 2013
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> All from the wts. They are afraid you will see the lies of the WT ,It is that simple and goes along with not going to college.. The org is afraid of truth and losing control of their followers for once you know the truth you are set free and the control of false teachers are gone. and they lose their free labor. It all comes down to money and has nothing to do with the truth of God as they spin their lies to hock the innocent.
dee, you said that every Bible except for the NWT had the word worship in there at Matthew 2:3. But that is not true, dee. Is that a lie that you said? or just a mistake? At least four Bibles I checked do not use the word 'worship' there at Matthew 2:3. So who should I believe? Your statement? Or what those other Bibles say, because other Bibles do NOT use the word worship there. Remember, dee, you said every OTHER BIBLE uses the word worship there. But that is not true, dee.

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#1837 Jan 14, 2013
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Rudi,
The reason that we don't accept literature from others, is simply because there are many groups that publish and print literature that is especially designed to create doubt, and most all of these types of literature are directed squarely at Jehovah's Witnesses.
ihv you are a liar.. sure there are some who deal with your false religion.. thing is i doubt seriously if you have ever been into a christian book store... you wont dind much on jws there.. but you will find some as well as some on all cults..
so be honest when you say such things
will
We have the example of the serpent in the garden, that approached Eve, and that serpent slyly injected doubt into Eve's thinking.
ihv yep teh serpent decieved eve and had her eat.. he still uses that tacitc today.. JESUS said you must be born again.. the publishing company god (serpent) says you dont need that rebirth..

and you choose to beleive them
WILL
She began to have doubts about what she knew to be true, as she even explained to the serpent what God had said regarding the tree. But she kept thinking about what the serpent had said, and after some time began to look upon the tree as something desireable. She wondered if knowing good and bad, would make her become like God. Finally she gave in to her doubts, and began eating from that tree.
I don't mind reading Bible based literature regarding what others feel is what the Scriptures teach. Many times if I'm waiting say, at a doctors office, I will pick up other religious literature that is there.
ihv really? hey womans day mag is not a religious book.. the only books i have seen there are simple media books.. well once in a while i see a REALLY OLD wt publication there..

THATS WHY I USED TO KEEP SALVATION TRACTS IN MY POCKET.. when i found wt material i always put the salvation tract in the inside cover ..
will
have no qualms about reading such materials.
But anything published by ex-JWs or other groups that have published literature especially directed at Jehovah's Witnesses, I don't even consider it.
I will discuss the Scriptures with you, but when you start copy and pasting material from anti-JW sites, I simply pass over.
IHV actually i am fixint to start a brand new thread on the afterlife.. and i will only use my bible, your bible which you seem to shy away from and maybe the kit.. and of course we will look at anything the wt claimed to have quoted..
will

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#1838 Jan 14, 2013
anyone know how to send a private message to another member here?
will
shadow

Sydney, Australia

#1839 Jan 14, 2013
The words of the wise ones are like oxgoads, and just like nails driven in are those indulging in collections of sentences; they have been given from one shepherd.
As regards anything besides these, my son, take a warning: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh.

Form a longing for the unadulterated milk belonging to the WORD, that through it you may grow to salvation, provided YOU have tasted that the Lord is kind

All SCRIPTURE is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

"And the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will TEACH YOU ALL THINGS and bring back to your minds ALL the things I told you."
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#1840 Jan 14, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
dee, you said that every Bible except for the NWT had the word worship in there at Matthew 2:3. But that is not true, dee. Is that a lie that you said? or just a mistake? At least four Bibles I checked do not use the word 'worship' there at Matthew 2:3. So who should I believe? Your statement? Or what those other Bibles say, because other Bibles do NOT use the word worship there. Remember, dee, you said every OTHER BIBLE uses the word worship there. But that is not true, dee.
LOL where are thoae bibles miseracord?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#1841 Jan 14, 2013
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
So, why are you, JWs, then reading materials from other websites that are specially directed at JWs by others over even ex-JWs? So as I can see, you, JWs, on this forum are doing it. You are even discussing topics on forums with ex-JWs. How is that?
Yet, when I asked JWs to read a book to have their opinion, they refused by saying that they don't read materials from other denominations. Some even said they are not allowed to do that.
I don't understand!
I will discuss the Scriptures with ones here. But it soon falls into slandering my brothers. They are no longer discussing the Bible, but their own prejudices and thinking.

That's when I take my leave.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#1842 Jan 14, 2013
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv so you are saying the nwmt is not accurate or tried to decieve readers
maybe you need to check the footnotes in YOUR OWN BIBLE here..
first off how to they come up with such a translation when the greek lxx translates this ego eimi.. yet you want the greek here t mean one thing and in all other places in the NT they arent as accurate..
hey dude if a word means one thing then it means one thing no matter where its used...
the nwmt admits the greek reads EGO EIMI..
ihv the greek means "i shall prove to be" in this verse then why a different meaning in john 8:58 ESPECIALLY since they translated it I AM in many places in john prior to this?
its called DECEPTION AND LYING
will
<quoted text>
Hi Ihveit

My comments:

(1)Will!--- I cannot let you get away with this comment(below) in reference to the Greek word “ego eimi”:

“ hey dude if a word means one thing then it means one thing no matter where its used...”

You know that is incorrect! Bible Translators of all religious persuasions have Translated “ego eimi” numerous times differently from “I am”. Your favourite Bible the King James Version(KJV) has translated “ego eimi” in the New Testament as:(a) I am (74 times),(b)it is I -(6 times),(c) I was –(1 time),(d) have been -(1time). I Know of no Greek Scholar who would agree with you that “ego eimi” must translated as “I am” every time. Please reference one single Greek Scholar who makes such a claim?

(2)Re: John 8:58: There has been many Bible Translations that have translated John 8:58 differently from “I am” as noted in the examples that follow. My research found 81 Bibles that had translated “ego eimi” differently from “I am”. That is a significant number and certainly would make one wonder why?

c. 200:“Before Abraham existed, I am existing ”- The Sahib Coptic New Testament,[empathy Abraham Swipe amok Troop*][ Transliteration by J. W. Wells, 2008.*Note: not “amok PE”(I am), but “amok Stoop.”

4th/5th Century:“before Abraham was, I have been ”- Syriac-Edition : Agnes Smith[ Lewis, London, 1894.

5th Century:“before Abraham existed, I was”- Syriac Peshitta-Ed.: James Murdock,- 7th ed., Boston and London, 1896.

2000:“before Abraham was born, I already existed ”– Traducción en language actual ,[antes de que naciera Abraham ya existía yo][ United Bible Societies, Miami.


2000:“¡before Abraham was born, I already was who I am !”- O Livro,(Portuguese-[antes de Abraão nascer eu já era quem sou!][ European pub. by Biblica.

2001:“ I existed before Abraham came into existence”– 21st Century Version of the - Christian Scriptures , Mark Heber Miller.

2001:“ I existed before Abraham was”- 2001 Translation - An American English Bible .

2003:“ I existed before Abraham was born!”– New Simplified Bible , James R. Madsen.

2003:“ I was alive before Abraham was born!”– The New Testament in Plain English ,[ Shippensburg, PA.

2003:“ I assure you that before Abraham was born, I have existed ” The Holy Bible in Today's Greek Version,

2005:“ I existed before Abraham was even born”– The Clear Word , Jack J.(See comment on The Clear Word at the end.)[ Blanco, Th.D.

2008:“before Abraham was born, I exist ”– La Santa Biblia-Nueva Biblia al Día , by [antes que Abraham naciera, yo existo] Sociedad Bíblica Internacional, Miami, FL.( Published by Grupo Nelson, Nashville, TN, USA.)

2008:“ I was in existence before Abraham was ever born”– The Book: New Testament,[Illuminated World, Dag Söderberg.

2009:“before Abraham existed, I exist ”– LA BIBLIA de NUESTRO PUEBLO,[antes de que existiera Abrahán, existo yo ][ Biblia del Peregrino , América Latina,[Luis Alonso Schökel. XII Edición, with Imprimatur, Bilbao, Spain.

2010:“before Abraham was born, I exist ”– La Palabra ,(Hispanoamérica);[antes de que Abraham naciera, existo yo][ Bible Society of Spain)

All the Best

Dave

“JWs PREACH LIES!”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#1843 Jan 14, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if Jesus spoke English with the "I AM" in all capital letters.
Oh, you wonder if Michael spoke English?

Since you are an expert on Greek and Hebrew, why don't you know?

“JWs PREACH LIES!”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#1844 Jan 14, 2013
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
I will discuss the Scriptures with ones here. But it soon falls into slandering my brothers. They are no longer discussing the Bible, but their own prejudices and thinking.
That's when I take my leave.
Oh wait, before you go...it's not slander...all jehovah's witnesses are worshippers of Satan.

They are not Christians.

You can't even grasp English, so it's real funny when you explain Greek and Hebrew.

I am very prejudiced regarding the wicked and evil jehovah's witnesses.

So, feel free to take your leave.

While you are on leave, study English. If you start at about the thrid grade level, you should fit right in.

“JWs PREACH LIES!”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#1845 Jan 14, 2013
Dave47 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Ihveit
My comments:
(1)Will!--- I cannot let you get away with this comment(below) in reference to the Greek word “ego eimi”:
“ hey dude if a word means one thing then it means one thing no matter where its used...”
You know that is incorrect! Bible Translators of all religious persuasions have Translated “ego eimi” numerous times differently from “I am”. Your favourite Bible the King James Version(KJV) has translated “ego eimi” in the New Testament as:(a) I am (74 times),(b)it is I -(6 times),(c) I was –(1 time),(d) have been -(1time). I Know of no Greek Scholar who would agree with you that “ego eimi” must translated as “I am” every time. Please reference one single Greek Scholar who makes such a claim?
(2)Re: John 8:58: There has been many Bible Translations that have translated John 8:58 differently from “I am” as noted in the examples that follow. My research found 81 Bibles that had translated “ego eimi” differently from “I am”. That is a significant number and certainly would make one wonder why?
c. 200:“Before Abraham existed, I am existing ”- The Sahib Coptic New Testament,[empathy Abraham Swipe amok Troop*][ Transliteration by J. W. Wells, 2008.*Note: not “amok PE”(I am), but “amok Stoop.”
4th/5th Century:“before Abraham was, I have been ”- Syriac-Edition : Agnes Smith[ Lewis, London, 1894.
5th Century:“before Abraham existed, I was”- Syriac Peshitta-Ed.: James Murdock,- 7th ed., Boston and London, 1896.
2000:“before Abraham was born, I already existed ”– Traducción en language actual ,[antes de que naciera Abraham ya existía yo][ United Bible Societies, Miami.
2000:“¡before Abraham was born, I already was who I am !”- O Livro,(Portuguese-[antes de Abraão nascer eu já era quem sou!][ European pub. by Biblica.
2001:“ I existed before Abraham came into existence”– 21st Century Version of the - Christian Scriptures , Mark Heber Miller.
2001:“ I existed before Abraham was”- 2001 Translation - An American English Bible .
2003:“ I existed before Abraham was born!”– New Simplified Bible , James R. Madsen.
2003:“ I was alive before Abraham was born!”– The New Testament in Plain English ,[ Shippensburg, PA.
2003:“ I assure you that before Abraham was born, I have existed ” The Holy Bible in Today's Greek Version,
2005:“ I existed before Abraham was even born”– The Clear Word , Jack J.(See comment on The Clear Word at the end.)[ Blanco, Th.D.
2008:“before Abraham was born, I exist ”– La Santa Biblia-Nueva Biblia al Día , by [antes que Abraham naciera, yo existo] Sociedad Bíblica Internacional, Miami, FL.( Published by Grupo Nelson, Nashville, TN, USA.)
2008:“ I was in existence before Abraham was ever born”– The Book: New Testament,[Illuminated World, Dag Söderberg.
2009:“before Abraham existed, I exist ”– LA BIBLIA de NUESTRO PUEBLO,[antes de que existiera Abrahán, existo yo ][ Biblia del Peregrino , América Latina,[Luis Alonso Schökel. XII Edición, with Imprimatur, Bilbao, Spain.
2010:“before Abraham was born, I exist ”– La Palabra ,(Hispanoamérica);[antes de que Abraham naciera, existo yo][ Bible Society of Spain)
All the Best
Dave
Oh, another Greek expert.

Dave, where and when did you study Greek?

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