was jesus worshipped?
Rudi

Falkirk, UK

#283 Nov 23, 2012
Gods Kingdom Rules wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus was always saying "it is written" when he quoted from the Hebrew scriptures.
If we say "it is written"
Ps. 135:13 -
"Thy name, O Jehovah, endureth forever; Thy memorial name, O Jehovah, throughout all generations" - ASV.
Ps. 83:16, 18 -
"Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name,[O Jehovah].... that men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." - KJV.
Ezek. 39:7 -
"And my holy name will I make known ... and the nations shall know that I am Jehovah" - ASV.
Zech. 13:9 -
"They shall call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, It is My people, and they shall say, Jehovah is my God." - KJIIV.
Jer. 16:19, 21 -
"O Jehovah ... unto thee shall the nations come from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Our fathers have inherited nought but lies ... and they will know that my name is Jehovah." - ASV.
Joel 2:26, 32 -
"And ye ... shall praise the name of Jehovah your God .... And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered." - ASV.
Is. 12:4 -
"And in that day shall ye say, Give thanks unto Jehovah, call upon his name, declare his doings among the peoples, make mention that his name is exalted." - ASV.
Ex. 3:15 -
"Jehovah ... This is my eternal name, to be used throughout all generations." - LB.
We are really just imitating Jesus by quoting the holy scriptures.
You want to dismiss them with your man made traditions. You want to dismiss what the bible says with what Jesus didn't according to you say.
The bible teaches us that Jesus made his fathers name known.
John 17:26
And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”- NWT
Jesus taught us to sanctify and make holy his fathers name. It was his first thing he told us to pray about. Yes his fathers name is just as important to us as it is to Jesus and as it was portrayed in the rest of the bible.
Exactly, IT IS WRITTEN: "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name." Mat. 6:9 (KJV)

If the Father's name IS so IMPORTANT TO YOU, what do you think, why didn't Jesus teach us to pray such as: OUR JEHOVAH WHICH ART IN HEAVEN? As I said, by uttering God's holy name would not save any of us, but whomesoever is seeking God and is pure in heart will inherit the Kingdom of God!

I certainly won't follow your (WTS) teaching, no matter how irritated you are; I rather follow Jesus: my God, Lord and Saviour and not teachings of men (including JWs).

Accordind to the Scriptures, misusing God's name is blasphemy. As a wretched sould, I would not dear to utter His holy name the way you do! If you knew how holy our God is, you would utter His name with fear and a trambling voice!
Rudi

Falkirk, UK

#284 Nov 23, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>After giving a thorough explanation as we have done, as to the origin of the pronunciation and spelling of the Divine Name Jehovah, and showing that Jesus is in the same category of spelling with a J sound, the blindness of prejudice they manifest is observable to the trained eye, even the untrained eye. Yes, let all those who have ears listen. Even their own trinitarian leaders declare that God's name is Jehovah, yet these ones here, due to willful prejudice, deny even the One that sent His Son.
If you keep misusing and arguing over God's holy name, you risk your name to be blotted out of the BOOK OF LIFE, as you may be committing the unpardonable sin! There are more important things to learn about our God and Saviour Jesus Christ. What you are going about is nonsense, you are actually arguing against the GODHEAD (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit).

“"Leave the dead horses alone"”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#285 Nov 23, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly, IT IS WRITTEN: "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name." Mat. 6:9 (KJV)
If the Father's name IS so IMPORTANT TO YOU, what do you think, why didn't Jesus teach us to pray such as: OUR JEHOVAH WHICH ART IN HEAVEN? As I said, by uttering God's holy name would not save any of us, but whomesoever is seeking God and is pure in heart will inherit the Kingdom of God!
I certainly won't follow your (WTS) teaching, no matter how irritated you are; I rather follow Jesus: my God, Lord and Saviour and not teachings of men (including JWs).
Accordind to the Scriptures, misusing God's name is blasphemy. As a wretched sould, I would not dear to utter His holy name the way you do! If you knew how holy our God is, you would utter His name with fear and a trambling voice!
That's it just ignore most of the bible like the rest of Christendom. That decision is yours to make. But Jehovah's People will not do this.

The bible says 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Rudi says only some of the bible we should listen too. Yet more scripture you are forced to ignore.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#286 Nov 23, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
We KNOW that, dee. So you don't believe those non-Jewish Bible translators, such as those who translated the King James Version when they put God's name as JEHOVAH? Many NONJEWISH biblical scholars will translate the Divine Name as JEHOVAH. and some do not. That is their choice. But you know better, you say. We know that in ENGLISH it is unlikely that it was pronounced that way. Almost everybody knows that, you're not saying anythng knew or that will change my mind about calling my beloved God by his Name, Jehovah. He said that was His Name. Therefore I can call him by His Name. He never said NOT to use His Name. He said not to use it in vain. Jesus prayed for God's name to be sanctified. He did not pray that it is never spoken. We have always said that, but you keep saying it as if we have not said that.
<quoted text>
If it's YH"V"H, dee, why would it be transliterated more correctly in your viewpoint as YAHWEH and not YAHVEH? Vowel points were inserted because the Jews did not want to READ God's name out loud in their synagogues. They changed the scriptures. Jehovah sent His beloved Son to talk to the Jews about this. But they didn't listen.
<quoted text>
Yes, it stuck with many, MANY famous and religious personages, including the translators of the King James Bible, and other non-Witness Bible translations. Yes, it stuck with many more than Jehovah's Witnesses.
<quoted text>
In your viewpoint, how is he Father to you? Explain, if you will and if you can.
<quoted text>
Jesus' name is in the same category. In fact, your explaining the name Jehovah does not take up your case at all. If you want to be a Jew and observe their traditions, go ahead. You do realize that many Jews today spit when they hear the name Jesus? You may not see it, but I have seen it. Real name, or fake name, they as a religious group, don't like him. Of course, according to you, he may appear on TV to show himself to everyone, even though the bible says no man can see God. But you go ahead with the Jews if you want to. As for me, I'll stick with Jehovah and who I consider to be HIS people.
<quoted text>
A smack down. Like what? To hell?
<quoted text>
Dee -- I am sure LURKERS and BIBLE STUDIES will see what you're saying. And they will see what the BIBLE says. Do you call JESUS by his name, by the way, when you think you are speaking to him? If you think you are speaking to him.
1.You wrote, "If it's YH"V"H, dee, why would it be transliterated more correctly in your viewpoint as YAHWEH and not YAHVEH? Vowel points were inserted because the Jews did not want to READ God's name out loud in their synagogues"
.... that is the point. it could be any number of ways because the correct way is not known. What is it you don't understand on a conscience level when you wrote it could be this or it could be that but then you say it id definitely Jehovah?
.
2. I didn't say YHVH or YHWH was more correctly transliterated as Yahweh...YOUR OWN MASTERS SAID THAT. i SAID EVEN YAHWEH IS A GUESS.
Can a JW ever read what is written without putting words in someone's mouth and expecting the false statement to go unnoticed?
.
3".They changed the scriptures. Jehovah sent His beloved Son to talk to the Jews about this. But they didn't listen." The Jews didn't change the scriptures theyWROTE THE OT SCRIPTURES.
.
4." Jehovah sent His beloved Son to talk to the Jews about this".Really? Where can I find a scripture that says Jesus was sent to tell the Jews that Gods' name was Jehovah? A name that means god of ruin?
Jesus told all of us to call God Father? Who is it that is ticlking your ears about this?
5.continuing in next post.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#287 Nov 23, 2012
6.LURKERS and BIBLE STUDIES here is another lie from this poster..."Of course, according to you, he may appear on TV to show himself to everyone, even though the bible says no man can see God."
I never said any such thing. I said what the scriptures say, and that is, Jesus will come in the clouds and every eye will see him. I believe exactly what the scriptures say, nothing more ot less.
Why don't you listen to scriptures instead of flip flopping men who add to Gods' words?
.
7."Jesus prayed for God's name to be sanctified. He did not pray that it is never spoken. We have always said that, but you keep saying it as if we have not said that." Another lie for I have never said that. I asked how do you sanctify Gods' name by using what you think is his name by using it in vain? God said Jesus' name is the name to be made known not Gods' own (unknown) name. What don't you understand about what God said?
.
8."In your viewpoint, how is he Father to you? Explain, if you will and if you can.
<quoted text> The following scripture best explains how Gof is the Father fo all true Christians. as apposed to Watchtowerites whose savior is an org rather than Jesus alone.
Ephesians 1:5-1 KJV
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
'
9." A smack down. Like what? To hell?" MATT 7:23 NIV
Then I will tell them plainly,'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
.
10.I ask LURKERS and BIBLES STUDIES to read scriptures alone for the truth and not man made literature that is no more than opinion of flip flopping false teachers and false prophets.
I ask also they they research the history of this org. and see how they are taught it is okay to lie to others.
I also ask them to see how the JW's will lie about what others say and belief.Their lies are suppose to make their false teachings palatable to them that believe what men say over the bible.
DO THE RESEARCH AND FIND THE TRUTH, something JW's are told not to do. Why would the WT say that if they had nothing to hide?
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#288 Nov 23, 2012
Gods Kingdom Rules wrote:
<quoted text> That's it just ignore most of the bible like the rest of Christendom. That decision is yours to make. But Jehovah's People will not do this.
The bible says 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
Rudi says only some of the bible we should listen too. Yet more scripture you are forced to ignore.
Then John 1:1 is correct. KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
.
It is you who don't know scriptures as you pick and chose what you are allowed to believe by the men who do the picking and choosing what they want you to believe and ignore all others.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#289 Nov 23, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
dee,
The Jews stopped using the name, thinking that it was too holy to be pronounced.
But we do find the divine name in Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, written in ancient Hebrew script right in the Greek text.
The only thing you will fine is YHWH and that cannot be translated without vowels.
Rudi

Falkirk, UK

#290 Nov 23, 2012
Gods Kingdom Rules wrote:
<quoted text> That's it just ignore most of the bible like the rest of Christendom. That decision is yours to make. But Jehovah's People will not do this.
The bible says 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
Rudi says only some of the bible we should listen too. Yet more scripture you are forced to ignore.
GKR, let me correct you, I do not ignore what the Bible teaches; if you think I ignore what the Scriptures say, you will need to read my post again. You said: "Rudi says only some of the bible we should listen too." This is not true, I said: "IT IS WRITTEN: "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name." This means THUS SAID THE LORD our Lord Jesus Christ! These are not my words, but the Word of God, which I don't dear to ignore like JWs do.

Once again, "If the Father's name IS so IMPORTANT TO YOU, what do you think, why didn't Jesus teach us to pray such as: OUR JEHOVAH WHICH ART IN HEAVEN? As I said, by uttering God's holy name would not save any of us, but whomsoever is seeking God and is pure in heart will inherit the Kingdom of God!

I certainly won't follow your (WTS) teachings, no matter how irritated you are; I rather follow Jesus: my God, Lord and Saviour and not teachings of men (including JWs).

According to the Scriptures, misusing God's name is blasphemy. As a wretched soul, I would not dear to utter His holy name the way you do! If you knew how holy our God is, you would utter His name with fear and a trembling voice."
toadmann

Masontown, PA

#291 Nov 23, 2012
youtube.com/watch... ……I say no?

“By grace you have been saved”

Since: May 09

UK

#292 Nov 23, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
That's God. His name is Jehovah.
How do you explain these following Scriptures?

“No man has seen God at any time.”-- John 1:18

“You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His figure.”-- John 5:37
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#293 Nov 23, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks Dee Lightful, I keep praying for them on daily bases. It is really shame, but everything is possible with God. Keep it up!
Thanks for the encouragement,Rudi. I get depressed with all their willful ignorance of scripture.It seems nothing will break through the brainwashing at times and it is discouraging to listen to all the lies . We can only hope God will draw them away from false prophets to himself and hope LURKERS and BIBLE STUDIES will heed the warnings and do the research of this org that the WT does not want done because it shows all the flip flopping of their false teachings and all the lies and hate that they preach.
ps. Do you in England has a holiday similar to Thanksgiving Day? It's been a long time since I have been to an Anglican service but isn't there a service for Thanksgiving?(I am assuming you are Anglican because of your love of the KJV.)
Rudi

Falkirk, UK

#294 Nov 23, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> Thanks for the encouragement,Rudi. I get depressed with all their willful ignorance of scripture.It seems nothing will break through the brainwashing at times and it is discouraging to listen to all the lies . We can only hope God will draw them away from false prophets to himself and hope LURKERS and BIBLE STUDIES will heed the warnings and do the research of this org that the WT does not want done because it shows all the flip flopping of their false teachings and all the lies and hate that they preach.
ps. Do you in England has a holiday similar to Thanksgiving Day? It's been a long time since I have been to an Anglican service but isn't there a service for Thanksgiving?(I am assuming you are Anglican because of your love of the KJV.)
You are more than welcome, I know how you feel. I feel the same sometimes, but bear in mind we are only sowing the seed and the Holy Spirit does the watering – JWs are also precious souls to God, He shed His blood for them too.

I had many visits of JWs, but as you say it is sad to see that these wonderful people so brainwashed and deceived. Before they became JWs they were searching the truth, but instead of finding it they fell in a bigger ditch, in Satan's snare.

But keep it up, brother, don't be discouraged; the devil wants us to be discouraged. It may take time, but even if never comes to fruition, don't feel discouraged, the seeds are implanted.

Actually I live in Scotland. Being honest, I am not Anglican so I don't really know if the Anglicans have a service for Thanksgiving day.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#295 Nov 23, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
You are more than welcome, I know how you feel. I feel the same sometimes, but bear in mind we are only sowing the seed and the Holy Spirit does the watering – JWs are also precious souls to God, He shed His blood for them too.
I had many visits of JWs, but as you say it is sad to see that these wonderful people so brainwashed and deceived. Before they became JWs they were searching the truth, but instead of finding it they fell in a bigger ditch, in Satan's snare.
But keep it up, brother, don't be discouraged; the devil wants us to be discouraged. It may take time, but even if never comes to fruition, don't feel discouraged, the seeds are implanted.
Actually I live in Scotland. Being honest, I am not Anglican so I don't really know if the Anglicans have a service for Thanksgiving day.
Thanks, Rudi. I know sometimes it sounds otherwise, because the frustration comes out eventually,but I do believe the JW's are indeed wonderful people for they are or were actively looking for God but fell for lies of men that tickled their ears ...it sounded good but was not scriptural for it served men of the org rather than God and Jesus.
Do i remember righty that you prefer the KJV just as I do?
ps. dee lightful is sister not brother. LOL.
Are you a brother or sister? The spelling of Rudi with an i suggest here in America, a female but knowing in other places that may not be so.
God bless you,Rudi, for preaching the truth of scriptures...Gods' only truth !
Rudi

Falkirk, UK

#296 Nov 23, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> Thanks, Rudi. I know sometimes it sounds otherwise, because the frustration comes out eventually,but I do believe the JW's are indeed wonderful people for they are or were actively looking for God but fell for lies of men that tickled their ears ...it sounded good but was not scriptural for it served men of the org rather than God and Jesus.
Do i remember righty that you prefer the KJV just as I do?
ps. dee lightful is sister not brother. LOL.
Are you a brother or sister? The spelling of Rudi with an i suggest here in America, a female but knowing in other places that may not be so.
God bless you,Rudi, for preaching the truth of scriptures...Gods' only truth !
My apologies, I didn't realize that you are a sister n Jesus Christ not a brother. I am actually brother, actually Rud is a nick name of Rudolf.

My preferred translation is the KJV. I love the buty of the old English and also its reliability in translation.

God bless Sister...
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#297 Nov 23, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
My apologies, I didn't realize that you are a sister n Jesus Christ not a brother. I am actually brother, actually Rud is a nick name of Rudolf.
My preferred translation is the KJV. I love the buty of the old English and also its reliability in translation.
God bless Sister...
No apology necessary. I do love the pure poetry of the KJV. I always assumed you were a brother for you sound male but one never knows for sure on the internet.

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#298 Nov 23, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Nonsense. Jesus NEVER claimed to be God. He prayed to God. he told people that his God was the same as their God. He even admitted that he was God's son. But he NEVER said he was God.
<quoted text>
The question you are avoiding is that they did not want to stone the people you claim were worshipping him. Why? They should have been put to death according to the Law of Moses for worshipping a man.
But, of course, they were NOT worshipping Jesus, they were BOWING (proskuneo) to him.
<quoted text>
I use the same translation constantly. I rarely use a different translation. I use the New Heart English Bible: Jehovah Edition (NHEBJE). I never use the NWT.
Now explain why the people bowing to Jesus were not stoned to death.
ihv dude JESUS himself went into the mountains to rest with his disciples... us TRUE christians chose to take this week off in honor of all our blessings and to rest from our toils.. heck i didnt even go out and try to sell any mags.. DID YOU?
the answer is forthcoming.... but mostlikely not this weekend.. today is my birthday and i plan on watching tv the whole weekend and not do much in the way of research
YOU SHOULD TRY THAT.. GIVE GLORY TO GOD FOR WHAT YOU HAVE.. ask JESUS to save your soul.. then read his love letters to you ...
then soon you too will know the truth REMEMBER reading the bible alone will make you doubt the wt and they know that
will

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#299 Nov 23, 2012
ihveit wrote:
.. ask JESUS to save your soul..
Jesus said not to ask him anything but to ask his father:

*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

The truth is we must ONLY pray to God, not Jesus.

Jesus came to bring us back to God and the Bible only authorises us to pray to God.

Praying to Jesus is wrong because it takes worship away from God.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#300 Nov 23, 2012
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv dude JESUS himself went into the mountains to rest with his disciples... us TRUE christians chose to take this week off in honor of all our blessings and to rest from our toils.. heck i didnt even go out and try to sell any mags.. DID YOU?
the answer is forthcoming.... but mostlikely not this weekend.. today is my birthday and i plan on watching tv the whole weekend and not do much in the way of research
YOU SHOULD TRY THAT.. GIVE GLORY TO GOD FOR WHAT YOU HAVE.. ask JESUS to save your soul.. then read his love letters to you ...
then soon you too will know the truth REMEMBER reading the bible alone will make you doubt the wt and they know that
will
n Happy Birthday, Will !

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#301 Nov 23, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> The only thing you will fine is YHWH and that cannot be translated without vowels.
dee,

Many of the Israelites named their children, and incorporated God's name in their children's name.

Jehoram, Jehoshaphat, Jehoash, to name just a few. So we already have the first two vowels of God's Name recorded hundreds of times in the Scriptures.

The first vowel is "e", and the second vowel is an "o".

We also have recorded in the Scriptures, the shortened form of God's name, "Jah". Scholars now contend that "Jah" is the first letter, and the last vowel, and the last letter of God's name.

When we see this fact, we see God's name complete with all of the vowels.

YeHoWaH in Hebrew, but we spell it with the "J" instead of the "Y" and the "V" instead of the "W". The result is JeHoVaH.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#302 Nov 23, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
If you keep misusing and arguing over God's holy name, you risk your name to be blotted out of the BOOK OF LIFE, as you may be committing the unpardonable sin! There are more important things to learn about our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
I'm not arguing. I'm explaining that many, M A N Y Bibles use the Name Jehovah in their translations. And other religions speak of Jehovah as God. You are the one arguing, in fact, using your argument, don't use the name Jesus in your prayers. Not one of his disciples called him by that name. Plus, God's voice was heard from heaven saying, "This is my Son." So call him Son, since you think you should call God "Father." You pray to Jesus, don't you? Why not call him Son, since that is what you believe Jesus' equal called him, while Jesus called his supposed equal "Father." Call him Son, not Jesus, since Jesus called God Father, and God called Jesus Son. So call him Son. Now if you don't want to argue, don't argue. There can be noting more important than learning about God's name, Jehovah, what is stands for, and what it represents. Jesus taught that. "Our Father in heaven, hallowed by thy name." Now since Jesus is one of God's sons since he said "OUR Father," why wouldn't all those thinking they are brothers of Jesus, with God as their Father, be in the godhead, too?

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