Rudi

Linlithgow, UK

#182 Nov 18, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>They saw the "preincarnate Christ"? What does that mean?
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1Tim. 3:16 (KJV)

("John 1:1-3,14: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.")

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

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#183 Nov 18, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1Tim. 3:16 (KJV)
("John 1:1-3,14: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.")
Let's take one of those texts, 1 Timothy 3:16 to begin with. Before I get into it more, what does "preincarnate Christ" mean? I don't see those words in the scriptures. Please give explanation of "preincarnate Christ." The text you cite does not say "preincarnate Christ." Not every translation has it as the King James does anyway, as "God" manifested in the flesh. Others have it as "he" or "Christ." Let's start there. Be back later.(No man has seen God at any time.)
Rudi

Linlithgow, UK

#184 Nov 18, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's take one of those texts, 1 Timothy 3:16 to begin with. Before I get into it more, what does "preincarnate Christ" mean? I don't see those words in the scriptures. Please give explanation of "preincarnate Christ." The text you cite does not say "preincarnate Christ." Not every translation has it as the King James does anyway, as "God" manifested in the flesh. Others have it as "he" or "Christ." Let's start there. Be back later.(No man has seen God at any time.)
I am certain you know what 'preincarante Christ' mean, you just like to play the ball game like any other JW do.

Read 1 Tim. 3:16 in the KJV (and in other uncorrupted translations) not your distorted NWT which is worthless. Don't be naive!

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#185 Nov 18, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
I am certain you know what 'preincarante Christ' mean, you just like to play the ball game like any other JW do.
Read 1 Tim. 3:16 in the KJV (and in other uncorrupted translations) not your distorted NWT which is worthless. Don't be naive!
I was not raised with such terms, and I was not always one of Jehovah's Witnesses. So frankly, I do not know how you would define the term because as far as I am concerned, Jesus always had a body. And now it seems that some are saying Jesus stayed in the mutilated flesh he died with. I can tell you what I think it means, however since it is not part of my vocabulary, I would not venture your definition. I'd like to stick to the translation you provided for your proof that Jesus is God in the flesh. Let's leave the NWT out of it, there are quite a few other reputable translations you now seem to calling corrupt. I'll start with the New Living Translation, not the NIV. The New Living Translation says there: "Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory." You see there it says CHRIST was revealed in a human body, not GOD, as the possibly corrupt KJV says. I have never thought of it as possibly corrupt until now.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#186 Nov 18, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
I am certain you know what 'preincarante Christ' mean, you just like to play the ball game like any other JW do.
Read 1 Tim. 3:16 in the KJV (and in other uncorrupted translations) not your distorted NWT which is worthless. Don't be naive!
I'm sure you'd like to smarten me up, make me "unnaive," so why not discuss why you think the New Living Translation (not the NWT) when it is translated as such is corrupt, ok? New Living Translation: "Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: CHRIST was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. HE was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory." Aside from your broad castigation of the New Living Translation, throwing it in the same bin as the NWT, why do you say the New Living Translation is corrupt there? YOU used the King James as as proof that Jesus is God in the flesh, didn't you? Let's see why that is not true.(No man has seen God at any time.) You are showing me that the King James is possibly corrupt. I never thought of that.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#187 Nov 18, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>How is God's holy spirit apart from himself, especially if, in your belief, God can be anywhere, is everywhere he wants to be at the same time. So how is God's holy spirit apart from himself?
i'm dying laughing....... in the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth
now the earth proved to be formless and the holy spirit was going to and fro over the surface of the watery deep
then god spoke, and there came to be light
==========

questions at the bottom

1...when the holy spirit arrives, is it yhwh or someone else?
2...when god speaks his word, is it yhwh or someone else?

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#188 Nov 19, 2012
misrecorded, are you now claiming that you don't know a thing about the word being with god in the beginning, before the word became flesh?

gee, you are boring.... all you got is a bag of tricks

hey, do you remember felix the cat?

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#189 Nov 19, 2012
red blood relative wrote:
<quoted text>
i'm dying laughing....... in the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth
now the earth proved to be formless and the holy spirit was going to and fro over the surface of the watery deep
then god spoke, and there came to be light
==========
questions at the bottom
1...when the holy spirit arrives, is it yhwh or someone else?
2...when god speaks his word, is it yhwh or someone else?
If I remember correctly, you said I said that God sent a "part of his spirit." Either He sends His spirit or He doesn't. I don't recall ever saying such a thing. If you think that God sends parts of himself to deal with situations, and quote that scripture as proof that God sends "part" of himself, all's I can say is == best to you.

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

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#191 Nov 19, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>You don't need to. Nevertheless, the Hebrew writing system did not have vowel indications until much later after the scriptures were originally written. Vowel points did not come into use in Hebrew until the second half of the first millennium C.E. What I noticed was Reslight was right on that issue and you dismissed his post because his 'slant' was not your slant.
ihv and what does this have to do with the greek word proscuneo?
will

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#192 Nov 19, 2012
you are resorting to your bag of tricks, misrecorded.

what color is your book bag?

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#193 Nov 19, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>So that doesn't say he is everywhere all the time, does it? No -- it says where two or three are gathered in his name.
ihv read the whole verse better yet read the whole paragraph

never mind here it is YOU EXPLAIN'
Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

heck even the perverted nwmt got this one right:
20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.”

will

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#194 Nov 19, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's take one of those texts, 1 Timothy 3:16 to begin with. Before I get into it more, what does "preincarnate Christ" mean? I don't see those words in the scriptures. Please give explanation of "preincarnate Christ." The text you cite does not say "preincarnate Christ." Not every translation has it as the King James does anyway, as "God" manifested in the flesh. Others have it as "he" or "Christ." Let's start there. Be back later.(No man has seen God at any time.)
ihv try paying a bit of attention..

if you read that verse as "he" which goes against the greek text, then the HE will refer back to vs 15 .. whom is vs 15 pointing to?

there are always answers to questions

and if you dont know what preincarnate means you really need help and the wt is not the place
will

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#195 Nov 19, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>I was not raised with such terms, and I was not always one of Jehovah's Witnesses. So frankly, I do not know how you would define the term because as far as I am concerned, Jesus always had a body. And now it seems that some are saying Jesus stayed in the mutilated flesh he died with. I can tell you what I think it means, however since it is not part of my vocabulary, I would not venture your definition. I'd like to stick to the translation you provided for your proof that Jesus is God in the flesh. Let's leave the NWT out of it, there are quite a few other reputable translations you now seem to calling corrupt. I'll start with the New Living Translation, not the NIV. The New Living Translation says there: "Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory." You see there it says CHRIST was revealed in a human body, not GOD, as the possibly corrupt KJV says. I have never thought of it as possibly corrupt until now.
ihv are you paid to come here and distract from the subject..

THE SUBJECT IS WAS JESUS WORSHIPPED.. RIGHT HERE YOU ARE TRYING TO GET THE SUBJECT TO SOMETHING ELSE LIKE THE BODILY RESURRECTION...

YOU ARE A TYPICAL JW THAT CAN ONLY PARROT WHAT THE WT TAUGHT YOU AND HOW TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT..

NOW GO AND EXPLAIN TO ME THIS ONE THING

why is it that when proscuneo is used in the bible the wt ALWAYS translated it as worship EXCEPT WHEN IT WAS APPLIED TO JESUS..

actually i already know your answer i just want to see if you are up to date on wt bull crap
will

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#196 Nov 19, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>I'm sure you'd like to smarten me up, make me "unnaive," so why not discuss why you think the New Living Translation (not the NWT) when it is translated as such is corrupt, ok? New Living Translation: "Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: CHRIST was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. HE was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory." Aside from your broad castigation of the New Living Translation, throwing it in the same bin as the NWT, why do you say the New Living Translation is corrupt there? YOU used the King James as as proof that Jesus is God in the flesh, didn't you? Let's see why that is not true.(No man has seen God at any time.) You are showing me that the King James is possibly corrupt. I never thought of that.
ihv maybe if i shout it???

THIS NEW LIVING BIBLE IS NOT A TRANSLATION AT ALL.. IT ATTEMPTED TO PUT THE BIBLE INTO MODERN DAY ENGLISH AND REALLY SCREWED UP

ALSO THE WT MISTRANSLATON IS NO TRANSLATION EITHER IT A PIECE OF CRAP PUT TOGETHER BY GLEANING HUNDREDS OF BIBLES TO FIND ONE THAT AGREED WITH PARTICULAR VERSES..
WILL

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#197 Nov 19, 2012
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv are you paid to come here and distract from the subject..
THE SUBJECT IS WAS JESUS WORSHIPPED.. RIGHT HERE YOU ARE TRYING TO GET THE SUBJECT TO SOMETHING ELSE LIKE THE BODILY RESURRECTION...
YOU ARE A TYPICAL JW THAT CAN ONLY PARROT WHAT THE WT TAUGHT YOU AND HOW TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT..
NOW GO AND EXPLAIN TO ME THIS ONE THING
why is it that when proscuneo is used in the bible the wt ALWAYS translated it as worship EXCEPT WHEN IT WAS APPLIED TO JESUS..
actually i already know your answer i just want to see if you are up to date on wt bull crap
will
Why is it that the people who did "proskuneo" towards Jesus were not stoned to death by the Pharisees?

Answer - because "proskuneo" does not mean "worship" but is something that ordinary people used to do to other people all the time.

Clearly the Pharisees did NOT think Jesus was being worshipped. They had to make excuses about him working during the sabbath.

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#198 Nov 19, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it that the people who did "proskuneo" towards Jesus were not stoned to death by the Pharisees?
Answer - because "proskuneo" does not mean "worship" but is something that ordinary people used to do to other people all the time.
Clearly the Pharisees did NOT think Jesus was being worshipped. They had to make excuses about him working during the sabbath.
ihv and why is it jws cant answer a simple question???????? because you are an idiot who fell into this cult and refuse to admit who they are..

why dont you instead tell us why EACH TIME PROSCUNEO is used in the nt its translated as worship except for one or two obscure instances BUT EVERY TIME ITS USED OF JESUS they use obeisance?

dig deep down in your evil soul and try to answer this..

as to the pharasees i dont think they were around when this was taking place... but i am hoping this week god willing i can restart this thread and OFFER ALL MY EVIDENCE WITHOUT HAVING TO PUT UP WITH WEAK AND IDIOTIC EXCUSES..

and on those lines you will see how the wt has lied to you.. made you eat food from satan

i was hoping to end this one long ago but medical issues and many dr visits etc have hindered me... i guess satan works hard when proof of the bible is forthcoming.. BUT GOD WILL PREVAIL
will
will

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#199 Nov 19, 2012
arien made this excuse"
Clearly the Pharisees did NOT think Jesus was being worshipped. They had to make excuses about him working during the sabbath.

IHV SO I CHALLENGE HIM please give us verses where pharasees were present when JESUS WAS WORSHIPPED.. be specific...

i know that a lots to ask becasue you got your butt between a rock and hard place again

might be a good time for another name change?

will

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#200 Nov 19, 2012
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv and why is it jws cant answer a simple question???????? because you are an idiot who fell into this cult and refuse to admit who they are..
why dont you instead tell us why EACH TIME PROSCUNEO is used in the nt its translated as worship except for one or two obscure instances BUT EVERY TIME ITS USED OF JESUS they use obeisance?
dig deep down in your evil soul and try to answer this..
as to the pharasees i dont think they were around when this was taking place... but i am hoping this week god willing i can restart this thread and OFFER ALL MY EVIDENCE WITHOUT HAVING TO PUT UP WITH WEAK AND IDIOTIC EXCUSES..
and on those lines you will see how the wt has lied to you.. made you eat food from satan
i was hoping to end this one long ago but medical issues and many dr visits etc have hindered me... i guess satan works hard when proof of the bible is forthcoming.. BUT GOD WILL PREVAIL
will
will
I have answered this question AT LEAST twice in this thread. You just don't want to know and you reject the truth of the matter.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#201 Nov 19, 2012
ihveit wrote:
arien made this excuse"
Clearly the Pharisees did NOT think Jesus was being worshipped. They had to make excuses about him working during the sabbath.
IHV SO I CHALLENGE HIM please give us verses where pharasees were present when JESUS WAS WORSHIPPED.. be specific...
i know that a lots to ask becasue you got your butt between a rock and hard place again
might be a good time for another name change?
will
*** John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and finding him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man *?"

*** John 9:36 He answered, "Who is he, Lord, that I may believe in him?"

*** John 9:37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen him, and it is he who speaks with you."

*** John 9:38 He said, "Lord, I believe!" and he worshiped him.

*** John 9:39 Jesus said, "I came into this world for judgment, that those who do not see may see; and that those who see may become blind."

*** John 9:40 THOSE OF THE PHARISEES WHO WERE WITH HIM heard these things, and said to him, "Are we also blind?"

*** John 9:41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say,'We see,' your sin remains.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#202 Nov 20, 2012
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv and why is it jws cant answer a simple question???????? because you are an idiot who fell into this cult and refuse to admit who they are..
why dont you instead tell us why EACH TIME PROSCUNEO is used in the nt its translated as worship except for one or two obscure instances BUT EVERY TIME ITS USED OF JESUS they use obeisance?
dig deep down in your evil soul and try to answer this..
as to the pharasees i dont think they were around when this was taking place... but i am hoping this week god willing i can restart this thread and OFFER ALL MY EVIDENCE WITHOUT HAVING TO PUT UP WITH WEAK AND IDIOTIC EXCUSES..
and on those lines you will see how the wt has lied to you.. made you eat food from satan
i was hoping to end this one long ago but medical issues and many dr visits etc have hindered me... i guess satan works hard when proof of the bible is forthcoming.. BUT GOD WILL PREVAIL
will
will
In connection with the respect paid to Jesus, the word often used is proskyneo, a word having the basic meaning “do obeisance,” but also translated “worship.”(Mt 2:11; Lu 4:8) Jesus was not accepting worship, which belongs to God alone (Matthew 4:10), but recognized the act of the one doing obeisance as recognition of the authority given Him by God.

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