Transfused Blood Will Provide Food--S...
little lamb

Australia

#105 Nov 17, 2012
Veritas 69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Little Lamb...
Would you eat a carcass if there was fresh food available...
The lesser would a Jew under the law eat a carcass, when there was fresh food available...:HUH:

Im not avocating for eating blood but medical treatment with donated or autologious blood... for sustaining life... where no lives have been lost but individuals have given a little part ofv theirn lives for saving a fellow humans life... in situations where the outcome in other case will be a premature death...:HUH:
First answer...One could eat one of his dead animals that died naturally because of not wanting to lose the value of the animal...money money..

To the second part .. the fact you are not advocating eating of blood..but for medical reasons..

I have to ask you a question Veritas..why does God set healing in the BODY of CHRIST..if no Christian believes it is placed there??

If a Christian doesn't believe healing is set in the BODY of CHRIST..then he has to go to outside sources, doesn't he ?

because of his unbelief, and then all this sh't is thrown at him, because what is legally rightfully given to us in the promises of God, in his new covenant has been robbed from us by unbelief.

Its like Jesus says "the thief doesn't come unless it is to STEAL , SLAY and DESTROY"

So we know everything for our salvation has been accomplished by Jesus..but the THIEF doesn't want you to inherit that salvation does he??
Claude Kenneson

Tallahassee, FL

#106 Nov 17, 2012
If transfused blood provides food for the body than everyone's blood should provide food for their own bodies. Why, therefore, have there been instances of people who died from fasting? Moreover, if God has designed blood to provide food for the body, why would he be upset if one were to use someone else's blood to achieve that end?

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#107 Nov 18, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
First answer...One could eat one of his dead animals that died naturally because of not wanting to lose the value of the animal...money money..
To the second part .. the fact you are not advocating eating of blood..but for medical reasons..
I have to ask you a question Veritas..why does God set healing in the BODY of CHRIST..if no Christian believes it is placed there??
If a Christian doesn't believe healing is set in the BODY of CHRIST..then he has to go to outside sources, doesn't he ?
because of his unbelief, and then all this sh't is thrown at him, because what is legally rightfully given to us in the promises of God, in his new covenant has been robbed from us by unbelief.
Its like Jesus says "the thief doesn't come unless it is to STEAL , SLAY and DESTROY"
So we know everything for our salvation has been accomplished by Jesus..but the THIEF doesn't want you to inherit that salvation does he??
Little Lamb...

You know for sure that everyone shall bear his or hers own burdons...

Then a single individual which have eat the blood in the slain annimal would have been enougt for beeing cut off... and why should Saul built alsters if the eating person was cut off...

So whats your point and where can we read about your speculations...?

Finally neither God or Jesus Christ demand sacrifices, the opposite Scribes and Pharisees and their equals the Governing Bodys, you and Cronies... when lives are at risk... Matthew 12:1-8...:HUH:
mercy not sacrifice

Myrtle Beach, SC

#108 Nov 18, 2012
Veritas 69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Little Lamb...
You know for sure that everyone shall bear his or hers own burdons...
Then a single individual which have eat the blood in the slain annimal would have been enougt for beeing cut off... and why should Saul built alsters if the eating person was cut off...
So whats your point and where can we read about your speculations...?
Finally neither God or Jesus Christ demand sacrifices, the opposite Scribes and Pharisees and their equals the Governing Bodys, you and Cronies... when lives are at risk... Matthew 12:1-8...:HUH:
Good point,

The Lord requires mercy, not sacrifice.
LL and the JWs require sacrifice, not mercy.
little lamb

Saint Albans, Australia

#109 Nov 18, 2012
Veritas 69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Little Lamb...
You know for sure that everyone shall bear his or hers own burdons...
Then a single individual which have eat the blood in the slain annimal would have been enougt for beeing cut off... and why should Saul built alsters if the eating person was cut off...
So whats your point and where can we read about your speculations...?
Finally neither God or Jesus Christ demand sacrifices, the opposite Scribes and Pharisees and their equals the Governing Bodys, you and Cronies... when lives are at risk... Matthew 12:1-8...:HUH:
so he 1 Samuel 14:34
Then he said, "Go out among the men and tell them,'Each of you bring me your
cattle and sheep, and slaughter them here and eat them. Do not sin against Jehovah by eating meat with blood still in it.'" So everyone brought his ox that night and slaughtered it there."

In this way he corrected the temptation for ALL his soldiers not to do it, and he made sure their animals were slaughtered properly according to Law.

Again Saul built an Altar there to Jehovah and it goes on to say With it [that altar] he started altar building to Jehovah"

Nowhere does it say eating blood was right in fact it was stated as a sin..second you don't know what happened to those people for what they did..It is Jehovah that cuts them off, not anyone else.

I personally tend to believe that it is in his book of remembrance that Jehovah has the names of his people, that he cuts them off from their people by taking their names out of the book he has before him

remember Moses asking God Exodus 32 [32] "But now, if You will, forgive their sin-- and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"

and you remember Gods answer.

"However Jehovah said to him, " Whoever has sinned against me, I shall wipe him out of my book"

Psalm 87 [6] " Jehovah will write in the register of the peoples: "This one was born in Zion." Selah

So to be cut off from your people ..can mean God won't register with his people , in his book.

This life is only temporary.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#110 Nov 19, 2012
Little Lamb...

So it is better that we commit suicide, then we will be unable to sin anymore... because the life is only temperary and Jesus Christ offer dosen't mean and have any influence... like and when Saul built alters... God will not forgive us... Jeremiah 7:31...:HUH:

May I ask you Little Lamb... have you ever sinned and do you believe God that God will ever forgive us... especially when we "sin" in a distress situation... where a life is at risk and the outcome will be a safe dead... even after we have come to "exact knowledge"...?

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#111 Nov 19, 2012
Little Lamb...

Will you tell us all whether Sauls men have eaten blood or not.... in connection with a kill... in a distress situation...

A yes or no will be sufficient...

Then tell us where we can read that the men was cut off in the Scriptures... other than in you imagination and by combining different Scriptures like your teachers... the Govering Bodys... opposite the approximate 3000 israelites which was killed when they have danced around the gold calf...?

By the way... do you belive that Moses brother Aron will be resurrected or not... due to your interpretation of the book of life... since he was responsible for the collection of gold and silver and that a gold calf came out of the fire as and like a hokus pokus situation... Exodus 32:24...?

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#112 Nov 19, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
-
From post 100[1]:
<quoted text>
I’m not trying to punish you or anyone else. I just refuse to keep answering your questions without you answering as you would have your own questions answered.
Even if it were true that I do not answer your questions (which is false) you should be more than willing to answer questions so you can help others to reach sound conclusions as you claim is your purpose.

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#113 Nov 19, 2012
Here are those questions again.

1. Does Marvin deny that Noah was prohibited from allowing the blood of slaughtered animals to be used as food for his body?

DEFINITION OF FOOD

"Food: 1. any nourishing substance that is eaten, drunk, or otherwise taken into the body to sustain life, provide energy, promote growth, etc."--dictionary.com.

2. If the number one definition of food as found in the dictionary is correct, then will blood properly administered intravenously by a competent doctor provide 'food' for the body receiving it?

3. Either transfused blood meets the number one definition of food in the dictionary or it does not meet that definition. Which is it?

4. Why should we discard the scientific definition that man has discovered and put in the dictionary and instead opt for Marvin's definition of food that he has reach because of his anti-JW agenda?

"Dead, damaged and senescent red blood cells are picked up by phagocytic cells throughout the body (including Kuppfer cells in the liver) and DIGESTED. The iron is precious and is efficiently recycled. The globin chains are protein and are catabolized and their components reused."--R. A. Bowen DVM PhD, Department of Biomedical Sciences, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO, Laura Austgen DVM PhD, Melissa Rouge DVM.

5. Contrary to the dictionary definition, why is a substance only food if it is eaten by mouth and digested by the stomach before entering the intestines, but it is not food if it is taken in otherwise and is digested by other bodily functions and organs before entering the intestines?

A PRIME EXAMPLE OF A NUTRIENT IN TRANSFUSED BLOOD

"Iron: An Essential Nutrient"--Colorado State University Extension foods and nutrition specialist and professor, food science and human nutrition J. Anderson and C. Fitzgerald1 Reviewed 6/2010.

6. Would you say that infusing a substance into the body that will provide four to nine months of the needed nutrient iron, normally provided by eating thru the mouth, is providing nutritional support and nutrients or not?

7. Would you say that infusing a substance into the body that provides twelve to seventeen percent of the needed nutrient iron in the total amount of needed red blood cells, normally provided by eating thru the mouth, is providing nutritional support and nutrients or not?

8. Either the iron in transfused blood cells will be used by the body as a nutrient or it will not. Which is it?

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#114 Nov 19, 2012
INTRAVENOUS GLUCOSE VS INTRAVENOUS BLOOD

"glucose...released into the blood to be transported to cells, where IT WILL BE CATABOLYZED."--Metabolism by Dr. Sharon A. Spring, B.S., D.C.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
"When glucose is administered intravenously as food, is it digested? As typically understood, no."--Marvin Shilmer.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
"is a person who receives intravenous glucose, eating?
Yes...Is intravenously fed glucose food for the body? Yes..."--Marvin Shilmer.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
"Glucose is catabolized by the body"--Marvin Shilmer.

9. When glucose that has been fed intravenously is catabolized for energy is it digested by the stomach?

"Dead, damaged and senescent red blood cells are picked up by phagocytic cells throughout the body (including Kuppfer cells in the liver) and DIGESTED. The iron is precious and is efficiently recycled. The globin chains are protein and are catabolized and their components reused."--R. A. Bowen DVM PhD, Department of Biomedical Sciences, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO, Laura Austgen DVM PhD, Melissa Rouge DVM.

"Catabolism: 1....the breaking down in living organisms of more complex substances into simpler ones, with the release of energy"--dictionary.com.

10. Is the catabolizing of blood "breaking down ...complex substances into simpler ones, with the release of energy"

11. Is the catabolizing of glucose "breaking down ...complex substances into simpler ones, with the release of energy"

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
"Will blood that is tranfused provide food for the body of the one receiving the blood?
As you define it, it would provide minuscule amounts of nutrition by means of catabolic process"--Marvin Shilmer.

12. Will blood that is tranfused provide food for the body of the one receiving the blood?

13. Will glucose that is tranfused intravenously provide food for the body of the one receiving the glucose?

FOOD/OKLAH IN THE BIBLE

14. Does the Bible show us that a substance is food/oklah if it is consumed for nourishment whether literally eaten by mouth or otherwise taken in?

MARVIN SHILMER AGREES WITH THE ABOVE

15. Does Marvin agree with the following:

a. Transplanting blood is consuming blood."

b. "Nourishment is anything taken into the body so sustain life."

c. "Nutrition is the intake and extraction of new materials/energy."

d. "Transplanting blood intravenously ... will provide nutritional value to the body"

e. "transfusing constituents from blood provides nutritional benefit as food"

CONCLUSION

16. How can a person possibly abstain from blood while at the same time taking blood into their body?

To be fair Marvin did answer this question showing us that the only way he knows to abstain from blood while taking blood into the body is perhaps if the blood was the person's own blood that was used as part of current therapy such as hemodilution, cell salvage, and the like.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

We certainly appreciated that honest answer.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#115 Nov 19, 2012
-

From post 112[1]:
Thirdwitness wrote:
Even if it were true that I do not answer your questions (which is false) you should be more than willing to answer questions so you can help others to reach sound conclusions as you claim is your purpose.


Here: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:
little lamb

Brunswick West, Australia

#116 Nov 19, 2012
Veritas 69 wrote:
Little Lamb...
So it is better that we commit suicide, then we will be unable to sin anymore... because the life is only temperary and Jesus Christ offer dosen't mean and have any influence... like and when Saul built alters... God will not forgive us... Jeremiah 7:31...:HUH:
May I ask you Little Lamb... have you ever sinned and do you believe God that God will ever forgive us... especially when we "sin" in a distress situation... where a life is at risk and the outcome will be a safe dead... even after we have come to "exact knowledge"...?
God forgives us Veritas, if we confess our sins and LEAVE THEM, the BLOOD of Jesus cleanses us from all sin

But to commit a sin , and then try to justify it, thats a different matter, because there is no repentance in a person who tries to justify sin.

Whats going on here , is not seeking mercy but rather a seeking of justification to continue sinning.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#117 Nov 19, 2012
-

From post 116[1]:
little lamb wrote:
God forgives us Veritas, if we confess our sins and LEAVE THEM, the BLOOD of Jesus cleanses us from all sin
.
But to commit a sin , and then try to justify it, thats a different matter, because there is no repentance in a person who tries to justify sin.
.
Whats going on here , is not seeking mercy but rather a seeking of justification to continue sinning.
When someone comes along saying that we should rather let a child die rather than accept transfusion of blood because THAT is God’s standard, THEN the onus is on the teacher saying such a thing to prove beyond any doubt whatsoever.

In this discussion you have taken a position that it’s God’s will that contemporary medical transfusion of DONOR blood is contrary to a law of God. Yet to this day you have offered NOT ONE SHRED of evidence that remotely SPEAKS to DONOR blood as though benevolent giving of blood to help save a life is wrong.

All you’ve offered is your opinion that that is the case, and then berated serious readers (like me) for asking questions that challenge the teaching you promote.

I pray God will have mercy on the baby killers, because unfortunately my heart is not yet big enough (though I’m working on it!!!).

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 116: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#118 Nov 19, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
God forgives us Veritas, if we confess our sins and LEAVE THEM, the BLOOD of Jesus cleanses us from all sin
But to commit a sin , and then try to justify it, thats a different matter, because there is no repentance in a person who tries to justify sin.
Whats going on here , is not seeking mercy but rather a seeking of justification to continue sinning.
Little Lamb..

Then tell us if Paul was an apostate or not... and whether we continue to sinn if we follow his recomendations... when he allowed Christians to eat meat which has been used in and as sacrifices to idols... 1 Corinthians 8:1-8... in spite of what comes forth in Acts 15:20,29...?

20 But that we write unto them, THAT THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

29 THAT YE ABSTAIN FROM MEAT OFFERED TO IDOLS, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#119 Nov 19, 2012
Here is Little Lambs behavoiur, if we presume that her daughter was the women with the bleeds in Luke 8:43-48...

Little Lamb would never ever give her dauhter permission or leave a possibility open for her to leave their house... since she have read that the Law forbide unclean persons to circulate in the community...:HUH:

43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.

45And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.

48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

No wonder why Jesus Crist condemned the Scribes and Pharsees and their quals in the whole of Matthew chater 23...:HUH:

little lamb

Perth, Australia

#120 Nov 20, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
-
From post 116[1]:
<quoted text>
When someone comes along saying that we should rather let a child die rather than accept transfusion of blood because THAT is God’s standard, THEN the onus is on the teacher saying such a thing to prove beyond any doubt whatsoever.
In this discussion you have taken a position that it’s God’s will that contemporary medical transfusion of DONOR blood is contrary to a law of God. Yet to this day you have offered NOT ONE SHRED of evidence that remotely SPEAKS to DONOR blood as though benevolent giving of blood to help save a life is wrong.
All you’ve offered is your opinion that that is the case, and then berated serious readers (like me) for asking questions that challenge the teaching you promote.
I pray God will have mercy on the baby killers, because unfortunately my heart is not yet big enough (though I’m working on it!!!).
Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:
1. Post 116: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
We are under command to make disciples for Christ , teaching them to observe all the things he has commanded

To keep abstaining from blood is not anyone telling anyone what to do..its preaching and teaching a commandment of God..and he tells us what to do.
little lamb

Perth, Australia

#121 Nov 20, 2012
Veritas 69 wrote:
Here is Little Lambs behavoiur, if we presume that her daughter was the women with the bleeds in Luke 8:43-48...
Little Lamb would never ever give her dauhter permission or leave a possibility open for her to leave their house... since she have read that the Law forbide unclean persons to circulate in the community...:HUH:
43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.
45And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.
48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
No wonder why Jesus Crist condemned the Scribes and Pharsees and their quals in the whole of Matthew chater 23...:HUH:
speculation..you jump from discussion to speculation..end of discussion with you Veritas..
diogenes

Lampasas, TX

#122 Nov 20, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
-
From post 116[1]:
<quoted text>
In this discussion you have taken a position that it’s God’s will that contemporary medical transfusion of DONOR blood is contrary to a law of God. Yet to this day you have offered NOT ONE SHRED of evidence that remotely SPEAKS to DONOR blood as though benevolent giving of blood to help save a life is wrong.
What makes DONOR blood any different from the blood that must not serve as food as commanded by God?

Here are some other types of blood the bible never mentions:

1. Purchased blood
2. Borrowed blood
3. Auctioned blood
4. Blood purchased on consignment
5. Stolen blood
6. Black market blood
7. Mortgaged blood
8. Discount blood (blood sold close to expiration date)

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#123 Nov 20, 2012
-

From post 122[1]:
diogenes wrote:
What makes DONOR blood any different from the blood that must not serve as food as commanded by God?
From a purely biblical perspective:

1. The biblical passage known as the Noachian Decree (Gen. 9) speaks to blood taken forcibly and without consent of its host.

2. The biblical passage known as the Noachian Decree (Gen. 9) does not speaks to blood donated with the benevolent consent of its host.

From a moral perspective:

3. The difference is tantamount to stealing to satisfy a selfish motive compared to accepting a gift given out of love from a friend.

Any questions about that?

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 122: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
diogenes

Lampasas, TX

#124 Nov 20, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
-
From post 122[1]:
<quoted text>
From a purely biblical perspective:
1. The biblical passage known as the Noachian Decree (Gen. 9) speaks to blood taken forcibly and without consent of its host.
2. The biblical passage known as the Noachian Decree (Gen. 9) does not speaks to blood donated with the benevolent consent of its host.
From a moral perspective:
3. The difference is tantamount to stealing to satisfy a selfish motive compared to accepting a gift given out of love from a friend.
Any questions about that?
Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:
1. Post 122: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
I see no disclaimer in Genisis 9 that allows blood to serve as food as long as the host voluntarily donates their blood. Your logic is flawed.

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