How much do "christians" know about Christianity?

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum

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“ZOINKS!”

Since: Dec 06

whereprettyliesperish.ru

#1 Jun 26, 2007
The discussion about religion in general in the "How much do you know about religion?" thread got me thinking...

So much of the "discussion" on these forums revolves around the supposed superiority of non-denomination Xtianity ("faith" through "christ alone") as opposed organized forms of worship like the JW religion. Certain users of the forum seem to think that the message of Xtianity as interpreted and taught by JWs is a gross departure from "true" Xtianity (as interpreted and taught by them and those who believe like them who are no more or less an authority than the governing body of JWs).

With that in mind, here is a great little commentary by Dave Van Allen, webmaster of exchristian.net regarding what the bible and Xtianity actually teach as opposed to what "christian" exJWs on forums like these would have you believe:

http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2003/09/lo...

“ZOINKS!”

Since: Dec 06

whereprettyliesperish.ru

#2 Jun 26, 2007
LOVE THE SINNER, HATE THE SIN

"This is one of my favorite Christo-speakese phrases. It demonstrates yet another example of the ignorance Christians have about their own rule book, the Bible, as well as an attempt by modern believers to make their God nicer than he really is. A quick search on GOOGLE will reveal that this phrase, or a variation of it, is found in numerous online sermons. I know that I myself heard that quaint concept repeated uncountable times in the many churches I frequented during my long tenure as a true believer.

On the face if it, the phrase seems like a nice idea. Basically I take this to be an admonition to be nice to everyone, regardless of ideology, but lovingly stand against their non-Christian lifestyles, behaviors, etc. I would agree with the "be nice to everyone" attitude, and commend those who try to adopt the policy. To debate the value of this simple philosophy is not my issue here, but to demonstrate that although such thinking may be a nice fluffy Evangelical ideal, it is not in the vocabulary of Bible God and it is certainly not part of Christianity. In the style of how I approached things in the past as a Christian, I ask now, "What saith the Scriptures?"

1) God is angry with the wicked every day. Psalms 7:11

Notice He is not angry with the sin, while loving the sinner. He is angry with the wicked themselves, the person, the individual, the human being.

2) God distributeth sorrows (to sinners) in his anger. Job 21:17

3) The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Proverbs 16:4

Sounds like God's displeasure is with the person again, not with the sin as if it existed outside the person. He even says he made the wicked for a certain reason, the day of evil. Here it doesn't come close to sounding like HE loves them.

There are absolutely dozens and dozens of verses in the Old Testament that I could use to prove my point, but there are too many modern Dispensationally hampered Christians who retreat from the hard theology of the OT to hide their minds behind a shield of, "that was the old covenant, so it doesn't count anymore." "We are in the new and better covenant of love, mercy and forgiveness." So, rather than get on a rabbit trail and belabor the fallacy of dividing the hokey word (err, holy word), I will only use the NT from here on out."

“ZOINKS!”

Since: Dec 06

whereprettyliesperish.ru

#3 Jun 26, 2007
(CONTINUED)

"3) A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. Luke 6:45

The sin and the sinner are tied together. They are absolutely one and the same in the mind of the Bible writers.

4) These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Jude 1:12

Love the sinner and hate the sin? I don't see it here.

5) But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 2 Peter 2:12

Still no love for the sinner while hating the sin.

6) If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema (aka: CURSED). 1 Corinthians 16:22

Love the sinner but hate the sin? I think not.

7) If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 2 John 1:10

Love him? Hell no...... Don't even invite him into your house!

8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

It is not the sin that is finally confined to the bowels of hell in God's loving plan, it is the people themselves.

It's sad, but the harsh, arrogant, condemning, angry Christians who try to rebut the articles on this site, and who send in the harsh judgmental letters, are actually closer to following the plain teachings of their deity than the more reasonable Christian commentators. Nowhere does the B-I-B-L-E teach that sin should be hated while sinners should be loved. A sinner is one who sins, pure and simple and the only way a sinner is ever given the possiblity of being loved is if he turns from his unbelief and sin. Up until then, there is no real offer of love. The love of GOD has huge strings attached, and the formula for getting in on that love has no alternatives. The sin that really puts that sinner in the Christian hell is rejection of Jesus as "personal savior." (Where in the bible the concept of "personal savior" comes from could be the topic of another rant, but for now I'll let that one alone.) If for any reason a person on the planet does not submit themselves to the requirements for receiving that "LOVE." then that person is totally rejected, condemned and eternally tortured without mercy."

“ZOINKS!”

Since: Dec 06

whereprettyliesperish.ru

#4 Jun 26, 2007
(CONCLUDED)

"It is commendable that many who have swallowed the blue pill of oblivion sending them into the fantasy world of Christianity are unwilling to adopt the horrific world view of Bible God. It is humanistically commendable, but it is not historic Christianity. One reason so much of Christian history is drenched in bloodshed, promulgated by "Christians" is because the religion does not teach tolerance of other lifestyle, or religious choices in any way shape or form. The only people that Christians are commanded to tolerate, are other believers. Those outside the fold are goats and chaff destined for the burning flames of hell, pure and simple. You can call your God love if you want, but the only ones he really loves are HIS own people. In the O.T. it was the Hebrews HE cares about and in the N.T. it is the Christians. Everyone else only exists as a tool to demonstrate HIS nefarious attributes of wrath, anger, ect.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

"All things" includes sinners and the hell they are condemned to inhabit for all eternity.

I present the plain words of these verses as a challenge to modern Christianity's idea that loving sinners while hating the sin is supported or taught by their mythical J.C., or his equally nonexistent Sky Daddy or any of their self appointed mouth pieces from their holey book.

Christianity is not about love, it is about closing your mind and doing what you are told."

“I don't know”

Since: Dec 06

Zagreb,Croatia

#5 Jun 27, 2007
FH Chandler wrote:
(CONCLUDED)
"It is commendable that many who have swallowed the blue pill of oblivion sending them into the fantasy world of Christianity are unwilling to adopt the horrific world view of Bible God. It is humanistically commendable, but it is not historic Christianity. One reason so much of Christian history is drenched in bloodshed, promulgated by "Christians" is because the religion does not teach tolerance of other lifestyle, or religious choices in any way shape or form. The only people that Christians are commanded to tolerate, are other believers. Those outside the fold are goats and chaff destined for the burning flames of hell, pure and simple. You can call your God love if you want, but the only ones he really loves are HIS own people. In the O.T. it was the Hebrews HE cares about and in the N.T. it is the Christians. Everyone else only exists as a tool to demonstrate HIS nefarious attributes of wrath, anger, ect.
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11
"All things" includes sinners and the hell they are condemned to inhabit for all eternity.
I present the plain words of these verses as a challenge to modern Christianity's idea that loving sinners while hating the sin is supported or taught by their mythical J.C., or his equally nonexistent Sky Daddy or any of their self appointed mouth pieces from their holey book.
Christianity is not about love, it is about closing your mind and doing what you are told."
I agree, i think that the bible became "god", if you don't accept every word from the bible, you don't accept God, so now Christians have
God the father
God the son
God the Holy Spirit
God the bible
And today’s Christianity is not about love, it's about religion
hiya

United States

#6 Jun 27, 2007
-brian- wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree, i think that the bible became "god", if you don't accept every word from the bible, you don't accept God, so now Christians have
God the father
God the son
God the Holy Spirit
God the bible
And today’s Christianity is not about love, it's about religion
Hey, my religion is about LOVE and MERCY and TRUSTING in JESUS. You should join,it is the ONLY religion started by Jesus Himself. The Universal church. By the way Universal means Catholic. And since it was started by Jesus it will never be destroyed.

“I don't know”

Since: Dec 06

Zagreb,Croatia

#7 Jun 28, 2007
hiya wrote:
<quoted text>Hey, my religion is about LOVE and MERCY and TRUSTING in JESUS. You should join,it is the ONLY religion started by Jesus Himself. The Universal church. By the way Universal means Catholic. And since it was started by Jesus it will never be destroyed.
Been there done that, i don't see how Catholic church is about love and mercy, but you obviously do, and i think protestants wouldn't agree with you. Many people that i met that are religious are not merciful, they are very judgmental and hateful ( i don't see how accept Christianity or go to hell for eternity is loving), and they don't know anything about religions ( i'm not saying all Christians are like this but most are). And just to make it clear i was raised as a Jws, then i was going to a Baptist and a Lutheran church, then i was a Catholic :)
hiya

United States

#8 Jun 28, 2007
-brian- wrote:
<quoted text>
Been there done that, i don't see how Catholic church is about love and mercy, but you obviously do, and i think protestants wouldn't agree with you. Many people that i met that are religious are not merciful, they are very judgmental and hateful ( i don't see how accept Christianity or go to hell for eternity is loving), and they don't know anything about religions ( i'm not saying all Christians are like this but most are). And just to make it clear i was raised as a Jws, then i was going to a Baptist and a Lutheran church, then i was a Catholic :)
The Catholic church teaches about mercy and forgiveness , and especially love. Read St. Faustina,s diary or look this saint up on the internet.

“ZOINKS!”

Since: Dec 06

whereprettyliesperish.ru

#9 Jun 28, 2007
Hiya: The Catholic church teaches about mercy and forgiveness , and especially love. Read St. Faustina,s diary or look this saint up on the internet.

Reply: Much like the JWs, what the catholic church teaches and what it practices are two completely different things.
hiya

United States

#10 Jun 28, 2007
FH Chandler wrote:
Hiya: The Catholic church teaches about mercy and forgiveness , and especially love. Read St. Faustina,s diary or look this saint up on the internet.
Reply: Much like the JWs, what the catholic church teaches and what it practices are two completely different things.
lol, Why in the world has my church lasted and will last but yours is a man made religion and will break off and divide and divide. Most Catholics practice what the Catholic church says.

“I don't know”

Since: Dec 06

Zagreb,Croatia

#11 Jun 28, 2007
hiya wrote:
<quoted text>lol, Why in the world has my church lasted and will last but yours is a man made religion and will break off and divide and divide. Most Catholics practice what the Catholic church says.
And why did Islam last so long?
Chandler is agnostic by the way as am i lately, that's not a religion

“ZOINKS!”

Since: Dec 06

whereprettyliesperish.ru

#12 Jun 28, 2007
Hiya: lol, Why in the world has my church lasted and will last but yours is a man made religion and will break off and divide and divide.

Reply: Ever heard of a little event called the Protestant Reformation? Your "eternal" church that was started by jebus himself lost what, a quarter of its population and for the next few hundred years was warring on and off again with those groups that broke away from it?

Didn't jebus say that his "true" church would not be having divisions in its midst?

And here you are, a member of the sect that has had the most famous division in all human history.

Tell me in what scripture did the founder of your "eternal" church say that there would be an exception to his rule?

“ZOINKS!”

Since: Dec 06

whereprettyliesperish.ru

#13 Jun 28, 2007
Brian: And why did Islam last so long?
Chandler is agnostic by the way as am i lately, that's not a religion

Reply: What happened to cause you to develop agnostic leanings?

Islam has only lasted because its male adherents have such a stranglehold on the female slaves who are forced to be part of it that they have been able to breed so effectively.

It won't last.
hiya

United States

#14 Jun 28, 2007
Yeah it will. Jesus started the Catholic church. I am not going to argue , i am just stating the truth.

“I don't know”

Since: Dec 06

Zagreb,Croatia

#15 Jun 28, 2007
FH Chandler wrote:
Reply: What happened to cause you to develop agnostic leanings?
Hypocrisy of Christians, i started reading the OT, then it seemed like the OT and NT can't be of the same God, started to question the bible...stuff like that

lol or maybe it's because i visited http://www.evilbible.com
Anyway i took the red pill :)

I don't know if you noticed but there is my MySpace address in my profile, my religion went from
1. Other
2. Christian other
3. Protestant
4. Catholic
5. Agnostic
Now i got people confused

“I don't know”

Since: Dec 06

Zagreb,Croatia

#16 Jun 28, 2007
hiya wrote:
Yeah it will. Jesus started the Catholic church. I am not going to argue , i am just stating the truth.
Quite arrogant if you ask me
Jude 3

Durham, NC

#17 Jun 28, 2007
Brian: I think you see clearly the problems with WT theology, & their false claims of being the only organization of God. It is fine to consider challenges to God & the Bible. You may wish to also look at CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS by Norman Geisler. He deals with all kinds of methodology, including agnosticism & atheism. Please do not let the hypocritical actions of PEOPLE, even those who claim to be Christians but perhaps are not, to adversely affect your PERSONAL relationship with God APART from any group. It is important to know when a group or organization is false, as well as making sure your focus is on Christ ALONE. Do not let what men do or say come between you & God. Also, go please to www.brci.org & find - WHERE IS THE BODY OF CHRIST? MY SEARCH FOR TRUE CHRISTIANS. Others have shared your same feelings as well. Best wishes & take care in your spirituality.

“WISDOM, is a BRAVE WARRIOR”

Since: Jun 07

MAHATTAN

#21 Jun 29, 2007
I am looking forward to read NMB's, 3w's or any other JWs' responds to POSTS #1, 2, 3, 4, and some of the QUESTIONS on post # 18.

Someone should ALERT them to respond to these CHALLENGES launched at them too.

I'm ;looking forward to that!!!!

“ZOINKS!”

Since: Dec 06

whereprettyliesperish.ru

#23 Jun 29, 2007
ETA: Someone should ALERT them to respond to these CHALLENGES launched at them too.

I'm ;looking forward to that!!!!

Reply: I too would like to see that.

Unfortunately I don't think any of them could stay on topic long enough.

I'm curious though, how do YOU respond to them?
Jude 3

Raleigh, NC

#24 Jun 29, 2007
FHC sockpuppet Firehawk again lies by saying I inserted myself into a discussion between him & others; I never said a thing about him until HE first came on here attacking ME again. And I'm supposed to care what some agnotic has to say about MY relationship with God? He admits he is a mud-slinger. That's his purpose here, to stir up strife & mayhem, & defend JW's & the WT even though he says he isn't one. What a hypocrite! And yet again, in FHC fashion, he describes himself when calling someone TRASH, as he is truly WT TROLL TRASH himself of the worst kind. Like Hooper said in JAWS, sharks are like a garbage can; go swimming with them, FHC garbage trash - you'll feel right at home.

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