one lord

Surrey, Canada

#62 Jul 29, 2006
Steve Lowry wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you can quote, and try and twist scripture passages to justify your poor decisions (i.e., refusing a blood transfusion). That's up to you. I'm just trying to save your life here.
i understand what you are trying to do but you cannot tell anyone what to do, it is free will, freedom of choice by God not man were talking about here, so jw or no jw, it is your wright to do whatever you want with your life, in the end, its God we must answer to for all our own, decisions, any thing else is a waste of your time trying to convince anyone that is is okay to take blood or its not okay to take blood, why bother arguing with this issue, you want blood take it you don't then don't, end it, that is definitely not how God or Jesus would handle things........none of my business if my fellow neighbour takes blood is it? i don't care if you do, my job is to not judge anyone, do what ever i believe is best for me, my faith and so on.
So if we worry about our own salvation first, and do what we think is wright, read the holy bible, make your own choices and mind our own business about these things really come on, you cant save anyone but yourself, God does the growing, so leave it up to him, pray about it. don't fight about it, its stupid, really. save yourself first.

so no one is saying to you what or how you should live your life, is there?
But if you want to live according to the bible and Gods laws, then go right ahead. but do as you wish, its your relashionship with God, not anyone else's.
one lord

Surrey, Canada

#63 Jul 29, 2006
monkeyarms wrote:
1 CORINTHIANS 2:14-16 14 But a physical man [or woman] does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually. 15 However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. 16 For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ.
So brother or sister, you haven't answered my question.
Have you dissociated yourself from the organization yet?
you seen to be strong in your beliefs much more than the governing body is, so if you are in fact believing what you are saying then why are you still in the organization that do not even follow with conviction what Jehovah has given as divine law in this respect?
you preach and quote what is written, but you still touch the unclean thing? If so your worship to him is not acceptable is it?
if you believe what you preach and are still part of this wtbts that no longer follow Gods divine laws, then you are sharers with them in there sin. you cannot partake of both tables nor can you be :hot nor cold. make your mind over, who do you obey? who do you worship?
If its Jehovah, then quite touching the unclean thing, and worship him with your whole mind and strength, heart and soul, not half!
you don't be a hippocrate. and stop defending men, instead defend Jah and Jesus, bring praise and honor to Jah, stand up for Jehovah, not men or that organization. who is the judge? not me. just a messenger with a message
if you know what is wright, and don't do it you have to answer for it
if you don't know, then you don't have case, but you have no excuse you can know because it has been revealed.
who are you?
Steve Lowry

United States

#64 Jul 29, 2006
one lord wrote:
<quoted text>
i understand what you are trying to do but you cannot tell anyone what to do, it is free will, freedom of choice by God not man were talking about here, so jw or no jw, it is your wright to do whatever you want with your life, in the end, its God we must answer to for all our own, decisions, any thing else is a waste of your time trying to convince anyone that is is okay to take blood or its not okay to take blood, why bother arguing with this issue, you want blood take it you don't then don't, end it, that is definitely not how God or Jesus would handle things........none of my business if my fellow neighbour takes blood is it? i don't care if you do, my job is to not judge anyone, do what ever i believe is best for me, my faith and so on.
So if we worry about our own salvation first, and do what we think is wright, read the holy bible, make your own choices and mind our own business about these things really come on, you cant save anyone but yourself, God does the growing, so leave it up to him, pray about it. don't fight about it, its stupid, really. save yourself first.
so no one is saying to you what or how you should live your life, is there?
But if you want to live according to the bible and Gods laws, then go right ahead. but do as you wish, its your relashionship with God, not anyone else's.
This forum (as well as many others) is a place where people come to discuss the Watchtower Society and its peculiar religious practices. The blood issue is just one of the abhorrent policies of the WBTS that get discussed here, so you should get use to it. If this kind of dialogue makes you uncomfortable then you are in the wrong place. I have a passion for the blood issue (as well as the shunning policy and other practices of the WBTS). Whether I am able or not to convince you to accept a blood transfusion is really not the point nor is it necessarily my goal. I challenge Jehovah’s Witnesses when and where ever the opportunity arises about what they believe, as I once was one. You may or may not find that offensive, but I really don’t care.

You have the ‘free will’ as you say, or the right to refuse a blood transfusion and die if that’s your choice, as dumb as that is. But you do not have the right to refuse minor children medical treatment that could and does save lives. And this is where my passion is, for the children. When you make the decision to refuse children their rights, you are forcing your ‘free will’ on them and that’s where your rights end and you need to be stopped. I have the right to voice my concern (and will continue to) in forums such as these as well as other places, about JW parents who would endanger the lives of their children by refusing them a blood transfusion.

What you do in this life with your life, is between you and your god. But when you deny children medical care that results in their deaths (such as what JW’s are guilty of doing) then you have to answer for that in the here and now. Hopefully one day we can put an end to the needless deaths of children who are refused medical treatment simply because they have the bad misfortune of having parents who have been misled by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. How many more children must die on the altar of the WBTS?
monkeyarms

Kansas City, MO

#65 Jul 29, 2006
The quote below can be found at:

http://www.rainbowbabies.org/OurServices/Cent...

When the rights of parents of Jehovah's Witness children are respected, their children benefit by not being "transfused with the diseases of the future" and not living in dread of what long-delayed consequences there might be. More importantly, the child is being taught obedience to his or her creator, a lesson that will lead to eternal life for them.

Why bloodless medicine?
For children, there are unique concerns associated with the use of donated blood, specifically due to their age. Although blood is as safe as it can possibly be, that safety is only within the limits of what is known today aboutblood. Many pediatricians feel that we could be transfusing the diseases of tomorrow today, the real possibility of transfusing blood borne disease that may not be known for years to come is a concern. Perhaps for an older adult patient the risk is less significant. But for pediatric patients who have a lifetime ahead of them the risk may be much more significant.
As more is known about bloodless medicine and surgery, research shows that in many cases the advanced techniques used in bloodless medicine and surgery allow the patient to recover quicker with a decreased risk of infection. Patients enrolled in the Bloodless Medicine and Surgery Program report increased patient satisfaction compared to patients who are not enrolled.
For some individuals the decision is based on broad considerations regarding the risks associated with donor blood, the unique medical condition of the patient, or a desire to prevent donor blood shortages for emergency use. So whether your choice for bloodless medicine and surgery is based on cultural or religious values, Rainbow is here to support and provide the highest level of bloodless care available.
one lord

Surrey, Canada

#66 Jul 29, 2006
Steve Lowry wrote:
<quoted text>
This forum (as well as many others) is a place where people come to discuss the Watchtower Society and its peculiar religious practices. The blood issue is just one of the abhorrent policies of the WBTS that get discussed here, so you should get use to it. If this kind of dialogue makes you uncomfortable then you are in the wrong place. I have a passion for the blood issue (as well as the shunning policy and other practices of the WBTS). Whether I am able or not to convince you to accept a blood transfusion is really not the point nor is it necessarily my goal. I challenge Jehovah’s Witnesses when and where ever the opportunity arises about what they believe, as I once was one. You may or may not find that offensive, but I really don’t care.
You have the ‘free will’ as you say, or the right to refuse a blood transfusion and die if that’s your choice, as dumb as that is. But you do not have the right to refuse minor children medical treatment that could and does save lives. And this is where my passion is, for the children. When you make the decision to refuse children their rights, you are forcing your ‘free will’ on them and that’s where your rights end and you need to be stopped. I have the right to voice my concern (and will continue to) in forums such as these as well as other places, about JW parents who would endanger the lives of their children by refusing them a blood transfusion.
What you do in this life with your life, is between you and your god. But when you deny children medical care that results in their deaths (such as what JW’s are guilty of doing) then you have to answer for that in the here and now. Hopefully one day we can put an end to the needless deaths of children who are refused medical treatment simply because they have the bad misfortune of having parents who have been misled by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. How many more children must die on the altar of the WBTS?
I used to be a jw. and dis/associated myself with my honeor and integrety in tact, thank you very much for your concern of my children but it is not your concern,or anyone elses but Jehovah and Jesus christ. they are mine. and i answer not to you. I dont even want to talk to people like you for you are just like the jw's who dictate how and when and where and what i should do. with my life and my childrens life.
one lord

Surrey, Canada

#67 Jul 29, 2006
You obviously have absolutly no RESPECT FOR DIVINE LAW for the bible clearly tells us how to live healthy happy lives,according to not your own reasoning but the bibles, Gods thoughts, and you are not God so dont tell me what is good for me or my children, i let God do that, if you dont like it, fine dont talk to me, or have anything to do with me, rather you can shun me just like my former brothers and sister out there who want to shun me because of my stand whatever it is. your bring up your children the way you want, i wont interfere, so do not interfere with my life or what desisions i make in regards to anything when it comes to my belief in this respects. your wasting your time here you are not arguing with people you are in fact arguing with God almighty
good luck cause you dont stand a chance. agaist our creator. you can stand up against lies hypocrasy child abuse, cover=ups and i will back you up one hundread percent, my friend, but you will not win me over or God, in this regards, read lev 17-10 and you will see how God feels about blood and what his people are commanded not to partake of. are you his people? or have you totaly turned you back on him? what is more important to you, save your life now, and loose it later? or trust in Jehovah with your whole heart and do not LEAN UPON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING?
Lets face it, we can do without the wtbts, but we cannot do without his love GOds love more powerfull than anything that this life has to offer, dont you have faith? Faith in Gods promise or have you completly lost it because of the fall of the wtbts false reasonings though out time and time again.
its not man that will save you its your faith, and we know that faith without works is dead so brother please reconsider your faith, and be reconciled to God, the wisdom of God is there for us, everything he teaches us is good, we must trust him so that he makes out path straight, trust is certainly a hard thing to acheive but not impossible, with a little bit of faith you can move mountains! I believe in you brother, God loves you, and he's waiting for you ..........he's waiting!!! peace manna
http://music.download.com/hiddenmanna/3615-84... my podcasts feel free, there free
Steve Lowry

United States

#68 Jul 30, 2006
one lord wrote:
<quoted text>
I used to be a jw. and dis/associated myself with my honeor and integrety in tact, thank you very much for your concern of my children but it is not your concern,or anyone elses but Jehovah and Jesus christ. they are mine. and i answer not to you. I dont even want to talk to people like you for you are just like the jw's who dictate how and when and where and what i should do. with my life and my childrens life.
Well, this is where you'd be wrong. Other like-minded people and I have every right to try and protect the rights of children from abusive parents. I see little difference between someone who would willfully allow his or her child die (when a simple medical procedure would save the child’s life) from any other kind of parental abuse. I could care less if you’re a Jehovah’s Witness, a Muslim, and a Baptist or if you belong to any other religious sect, or not. Just because you’re the biological parent of a child does not give you the right to deny a child medical attention. You’re free to look at it any way you wish, really. But in the event that your child should need a blood transfusion to save his or her life and yet you refuse, the Child Protection Service (or some other child protection advocacy group) will attempt step in and relieve you of your “parental care” and administer such needed medical attention to save the child’s life (if it’s not too late that is). Sad to think that in this day and time that there some people who still live in the dark ages, who would refuse children their right to live because of some misguided twisted religious belief. Unreal.
Steve Lowry

United States

#69 Jul 30, 2006
one lord wrote:
You obviously have absolutly no RESPECT FOR DIVINE LAW for the bible clearly tells us how to live healthy happy lives,according to not your own reasoning but the bibles, Gods thoughts, and you are not God so dont tell me what is good for me or my children, i let God do that, if you dont like it, fine dont talk to me, or have anything to do with me, rather you can shun me just like my former brothers and sister out there who want to shun me because of my stand whatever it is. your bring up your children the way you want, i wont interfere, so do not interfere with my life or what desisions i make in regards to anything when it comes to my belief in this respects. your wasting your time here you are not arguing with people you are in fact arguing with God almighty
good luck cause you dont stand a chance. agaist our creator. you can stand up against lies hypocrasy child abuse, cover=ups and i will back you up one hundread percent, my friend, but you will not win me over or God, in this regards, read lev 17-10 and you will see how God feels about blood and what his people are commanded not to partake of. are you his people? or have you totaly turned you back on him? what is more important to you, save your life now, and loose it later? or trust in Jehovah with your whole heart and do not LEAN UPON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING?
Lets face it, we can do without the wtbts, but we cannot do without his love GOds love more powerfull than anything that this life has to offer, dont you have faith? Faith in Gods promise or have you completly lost it because of the fall of the wtbts false reasonings though out time and time again.
its not man that will save you its your faith, and we know that faith without works is dead so brother please reconsider your faith, and be reconciled to God, the wisdom of God is there for us, everything he teaches us is good, we must trust him so that he makes out path straight, trust is certainly a hard thing to acheive but not impossible, with a little bit of faith you can move mountains! I believe in you brother, God loves you, and he's waiting for you ..........he's waiting!!! peace manna
http://music.download.com/hiddenmanna/3615-84... my podcasts feel free, there free
Oh, this is YOU, Loving Truth! If I had of realized this earlier, I reacted much differently. Never mind then.
one lord

Surrey, Canada

#70 Jul 30, 2006
no sence
Steve Lowry

United States

#71 Jul 30, 2006
one lord wrote:
no sence
Don't worry about.

Since: Jan 06

Location hidden

#72 Jul 30, 2006
I happen to think the Witnesses are wrong in the interpretation of the bible. I think blood transfusions are a GOOD thing when they save lives.

But the fact is that some people can and do get diseases from the very transfusions that save them.(Aids is just one, there ARE others.)

Should the child be given the transfusion? I would say yes.

Should she be FORCED to? I say NO!!!!!

In this country we are free to make personal decisions.(Sadly, many people who would choose to have medical treatments, including physicals, treatments, medication, operations and so on, simply can't... because they can't afford them!)

I am not happy seeing anyone go without -- but I don't think it is the government's place to force anyone to do something they really don't want to do.

Since: Jan 06

Location hidden

#73 Jul 30, 2006
Note to Witnesses.... if God wants to call a child home, no transfusion will save the recipient.
one lord

Surrey, Canada

#74 Jul 30, 2006
Trust in the LORD
God is love,
and all who love Jehovah i mean really love him will get out of that organization, these are his TRUE WITNESSES
woship GOd not the WATCHTOWER IDOL

peace Manna
Claude Kenneson

Monticello, FL

#75 Jul 30, 2006
Justwatching comments: "Note to Witnesses...if God wants to call a child home, no transfusion will save the recipient."

If God calls people home when He's ready, why does anyone bother to take any precautions in anything?
monkeyarms

Kansas City, MO

#76 Jul 30, 2006
For those who wish to upgrade their education on the subject of bloodless medicine, there are many good links above showing the superiority of medical treatment without blood.
It is now considered the "gold standard" by many doctors.

Incidentally, no one is dying around me from not taking blood transfusions. I don't know where all these deaths that anti-Witness zealots claim are occurring. I suspect they are just repeating worn-out old propaganda that they have read somewhere without having any evidence to show for it. These old arguments and claims are so time-worn and repetitive. If one leaves Jehovah's organization so as to be able to think for oneself, why buy into all these outdated false ideas of others?

When the rights of parents of Jehovah's Witness children are respected, their children benefit by not being "transfused with the diseases of the future" and not living in dread of what long-delayed consequences there might be. More importantly, the child is being taught obedience to his or her creator, a lesson that will lead to eternal life for them.

The quote below can be found at:

http://www.rainbowbabies.org/OurServices/Cent ...

Why bloodless medicine?
For children, there are unique concerns associated with the use of donated blood, specifically due to their age. Although blood is as safe as it can possibly be, that safety is only within the limits of what is known today about blood. Many pediatricians feel that we could be transfusing the diseases of tomorrow today, the real possibility of transfusing blood borne disease that may not be known for years to come is a concern. Perhaps for an older adult patient the risk is less significant. But for pediatric patients who have a lifetime ahead of them the risk may be much more significant.
As more is known about bloodless medicine and surgery, research shows that in many cases the advanced techniques used in bloodless medicine and surgery allow the patient to recover quicker with a decreased risk of infection. Patients enrolled in the Bloodless Medicine and Surgery Program report increased patient satisfaction compared to patients who are not enrolled.
For some individuals the decision is based on broad considerations regarding the risks associated with donor blood, the unique medical condition of the patient, or a desire to prevent donor blood shortages for emergency use. So whether your choice for bloodless medicine and surgery is based on cultural or religious values, Rainbow is here to support and provide the highest level of bloodless care available.
Danny Haszard

Waynesboro, VA

#77 Jul 30, 2006
"Monkeyarms" Your a Watchtower apologist floating a red herring alluding that Jehovah's Witnesses are medically 'advantaged' by abstaining from WHOLE blood.

Jehovah's Witnesses are permitted by their Watchtower masters to use blood fractions which harbor all same the pathogens as WHOLE BLOOD.

Moreover,the murderous Watchtower kills off it's loyal members by telling that the best overall health care is secondary to their 'spirituality' as the 'new system' is always imminent.

Many like my own Jehovah's Witness parents and grandparents died premature deaths for neglecting their long term health care.My uncle Wallace died of diabetes complications directly related to the 1914 'generations' prophecy.
monkeyarms

Kansas City, MO

#78 Jul 30, 2006
The links I have posted regarding the superiority of bloodless medicine come from medical professionals, not the Watchtower. The Watchtower has always advocated caring properly for one's health and has never encouraged anyone to neglect their health because of the imminence of God's new world under his kingdom.

The Watchtower simply applies the Bible's principles and laws to our lives today. No one is ever harmed by applying Bible principles, but all the harm being done in the earth today can be attributed to not applying Bible principles.

We are a contented flock with loving shepherds. The shepherds love the flock and we love the shepherds and appreciate the help they give us to apply what the Bible says.
Opposers today bring nothing new to the earthly scene. They are simply repeating the same lies that Satan started in the Garden of Eden--just with a modern-day twist.
monkeyarms

Kansas City, MO

#79 Jul 30, 2006
The lie Satan started, for those who do not remember, was to the effect that God was a liar, that he did not have Eve's best interests at heart, that enlightenment lay in disobeying God's commands, and that humans would be better off thinking for themselves, rather than submitting to God's authority.

In addition, in the book of Job, Satan raised the challenge that if a person were tested to the point where their very life became involved, that person would reject Jehovah's authority.

Well over 6 million faithful Witnesses today are proving him the liar he is. But the lie continues through his representatives.
Danny Haszard

Waynesboro, VA

#80 Jul 30, 2006
monkeyarms wrote:
The Watchtower has never encouraged anyone to neglect their health because of the imminence of God's new world under his kingdom.
That is a LIE!
Danny Haszard

Waynesboro, VA

#81 Jul 30, 2006
Monkeyarms why can't you use your real identity on this forum to fearlessly 'expound these Bible truths'.

Because your control freak watchtower masters will denounce you for it.

With all due respect for your rights to free speech and your intelligent composition's you lose credibility with a handle like 'monkeyarms'.

Your's truly Danny Haszard Bangor Maine born 1957 as a 3rd generation Jehovah's Witness who has now renounced the Watchtower cult.

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