The WTBTS appeal

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#237 Jun 21, 2012
The reason the court's decision, and the jury's decision, and the final outcome is appealing to most here, is because the WTBTS has been so vocal in it's condemnation of other religious organizations, for their handling of the same problems. Employing individuals to do damage control on these discussion boards is hilarious.

The only complaint they can make is that they were held to a higher standard than a regular publishing company would be, to the readers of it's books. And that wouldn't be the case if they hadn't insinuated themselves into their readers lives to the point of even being in their bedroom, their hospital room, and demanding that they only associate with people the WTBTS approve of.

(Matthew 13:40-43). . .. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.

sidgi
dee lightful

Pelzer, SC

#238 Jun 21, 2012
sidgi wrote:
The reason the court's decision, and the jury's decision, and the final outcome is appealing to most here, is because the WTBTS has been so vocal in it's condemnation of other religious organizations, for their handling of the same problems. Employing individuals to do damage control on these discussion boards is hilarious.
The only complaint they can make is that they were held to a higher standard than a regular publishing company would be, to the readers of it's books. And that wouldn't be the case if they hadn't insinuated themselves into their readers lives to the point of even being in their bedroom, their hospital room, and demanding that they only associate with people the WTBTS approve of.
(Matthew 13:40-43). . .. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.
sidgi
it is ironic and amazing how that Judge and jury are so ignorant to come up with the verdict they did but if the same jury 's decision was reversed they would be singing their praise as the wisest of juries.
We can all see the JW gnashing of their teeth right here.They are reaping what they have sown as they try to negate a jury's decision and all of a sudden the ignorant ones all become King Solomon.!.
Corinthian

Crestview, FL

#239 Jun 21, 2012
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
In this specific case, quite a bit of evidence as well as testimony of individuals who were actually involved in the incident that supposedly is the basis for the whole claim was suppressed - by edict of the judge, at the direction of your victim's attorney.
At the same time, your victim's attorney held up as an "expert" witness proven liar Bill Bowen who has been correctly ignored in previous attempts to present himself as an "expert" witness because he had no involvement in and no firsthand knowledge of the case - as he had no involvement with and no firsthand knowledge of this case.
comefluffance: I do know that the silencing of victims, of both child sexual abuse, adult sexual abuse and marital abuse have been to 'keep the law out of it.'
Reply: In THIS case, not even the alleged victim is making that claim, nor was that claim made with regard to the incident which she believes she, specifically, should have been told about - as an 8 year old.
Because I'm sure that as an 8-year old she would have understood the complexities of a family dynamic that included a troubled marriage, a troubled teenager acting out, and two people who, though they couldn't agree on many things, agreed that their daughter was out of control and manipulative. All of that, on top of this claim that, at the time, was agreed to have been a misunderstanding.
[All of which, too, we're to believe was wholly unknown to your alleged victim's parents, who were said to be friends with Mr. Kendrick.]
Would you have understood that, as an 8 year old?
comefluffance: As you have pointed out, they are not police, they are not lawyers, they are not judges.
Reply: Some of them are lawyers. Probably not police or judges presently, but you'd be surprised what some of them used to do.
comefluffance: But they do take on the job of being, police, lawyer, judges and executioners much of the time.'Executioner?' You might ask. Yes, they consider a disfellowshipped person to be spiritually dead, so yes, executioner.
Reply: An exaggeration of the highest magnitude; that there are people out there that are so misguided that actually equate the opinion of a religious sect one is wholly free to join or leave at their leisure, and wholly free to simply ignore, equates to literal death... well, it shouldn't be so shocking, but to actually read this presented as though it's what you actually believe...
I feel sorry for you, I really do.
I don't often feel sorry for people who post here, but I feel sorry for you.
comefluffance: They should not be handling things themselves without the [education] and [skills] to do so...
So, just so we're clear, what your alleging is that it's impossible for "simple" men to handle the responsibility of shepherding "god's" flock, without [secular] education and "skills?"
It seems to me that the apostles did just that.
Chan~

I've seen it stated that Bowen and Anderson are proven liars. Where can I did this evidence?

Corinthian
Corinthian

Crestview, FL

#240 Jun 21, 2012
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
: But they do take on the job of being, police, lawyer, judges and executioners much of the time.'Executioner?' You might ask. Yes, they consider a disfellowshipped person to be spiritually dead, so yes, executioner.
Reply: An exaggeration of the highest magnitude; that there are people out there that are so misguided that actually equate the opinion of a religious sect one is wholly free to join or leave at their leisure, and wholly free to simply ignore, equates to literal death... well, it shouldn't be so shocking, but to actually read this presented as though it's what you actually believe...
I feel sorry for you, I really do.
I don't often feel sorry for people who post here, but I feel sorry for you.
Chan~

Sure, sounds easy. People often say that a battered spouse can just walk away if her/his own volition. I don't think Uppy was exaggerating. My experience with Witnesses has been throughout my life, attending many meetings and conventions/assemblies. I've spent countless hours socially with Witnesses. This is my experience.

Growing up, I spent a vast amount of my childhood with my Witness Aunt and cousin. As a result of that, I met and associated with a great many witnesses over the years. For years, my aunt was close to a large family of Witnesses. I met one of the teenagers in this family when I was still young (around 10). I will call him Chris. I hung out with him in social groups of witnesses several times, went to eat in groups with him, etc. so, he and his family remained close to my aunt. I know my aunt really loved Chris, as she told me she did in several occasions. Another close family of friends of my aunts became close to Chris. They had 3 young boys. Chris became their mentor....babysat them, took them places...became a big brother.

Fast forward....I was with my aunt and cousin and they mention Chris had been disfellowshipped. I was shocked! Because of my aunt being close to both Chris and the family with the boys, she knew he had been disfellowshipped for molesting the boys (and knew that the boys were seeking therapy as a result). I was floored!!!

The BIGGEST thing that sticks out in my mind of her telling me this (besides the molestations, of course) is this...

My aunt said at the meeting when Chris' disfellowshipping was announced, his family cried and wailed in the Kingdom Hall as if they were at a funeral<-----HER WORD.

When I asked her why...her response was as followed, verbatim.....

"Because once you are disfellowshipped, you are viewed as dead in the eyes of Witnesses.". She said this with tears in her eyes.

I've had this notion reiterated to me over the years by my other Witness family members. Where would they get this notion? WHY would they think this if it wasn't an understood concept for that person to become spiritually dead to Witnesses?

I realize now that there may be more leniency with communication with disfellowshipped family members, but at that time, that is how it was.

Corinthian
comeuppance

Bonnots Mill, MO

#241 Jun 21, 2012
OMG, you forgot to change my username on the first of this lengthy page of repeating yourself, Chand, what happened? I'm disappointed in you. LOL

I have so moved on from this case, to look at the bigger picture, and clearly have said how things have been handled on a general level, by the WTS and you continued to run back to thinking that I am talking about this case in particular. The silencing of reports is much too widely known to have come from my imagination. The reporting laws do not give room for wasting God knows how much time in calling the WT legal department when a crime has been committed. If they did their part in calling the police when a crime has been alleged, they wouldn't be spending so much time paying lawyers themselves for defending them for breaking those laws. There would be plenty of time to call the legal department, after they have obeyed the law, and wouldn't end up endangering themselves, or their elders with criminal charges for not having done so. And even more so, do they break the law when they try to silence a victim of the crime, in hopes that it can be made to just go away, so that the WTS isn't exposed as actually having criminals among them just like every other group of people. In any group of individuals, there is going to be a certain number of bad people. They know this, but they want to put up a screen to act as if they don't have them among their own.
If they did obey the laws, they could stand before the law and say, we did our part, we followed the law and we are blameless in this crime. If a reported crime of child abuse is found to be unsustantiated, they cannot be held responsible for a "false report," because they were obeying the law in reporting. In fact, it's a greater protection for the elders and the WTS to comply with such laws.
Anyone who is put in control of a group of people should have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the laws that govern the position. The laws of reporting child abuse are so widely known, that there is no excuse for not knowing them. I guarantee every dr, nurse, nurse's aid, school teacher, school aid etc, know these reporting laws. So, if someone agrees to be an elder, by law called a clergyman, they should make it their business to know what secular laws they will be bound by, and the GB should in no way attempt to keep them from obeying those laws. There is no room for claiming they had to call a lawyer to find out what common laws are.
If you drive a car, you are bound to know what the driving laws are. You shouldn't be behind the wheel if you don't know those laws, and if you are stopped for disobeying them, ignorance won't get you out of a ticket. So, if you are going to allow yourself to be appointed as a clergyman, you should know what the laws that govern being in the position are, or you shouldn't allow yourself to be in the position.
When a crime isn't promptly reported, there is time for evidence to be tampered with, or to be destroyed, hidden etc. That is why prompt reporting laws are in place.
The WTS and many other sects are running a business and practicing a religion in this country. If they don't want to obey the laws of this country, then they need to pack up and move out!

What exactly do you feel sorry for me for? For having a thought that doesn't directly agree with yours?

And Ms. Conti is not my victim. I didn't molest her. That was someone else.
JJJ

Surry Hills, Australia

#242 Jun 21, 2012
This issue is not simply an academic exercise in semantics....

There is no debate on this issue... not for reasonable people...

We are talking about children..... and no matter what the circumstances may be when an issue involes both adults and children common decency and the law will recognise the disparity that exists between the parties involved.....

What did one JW elder state regarding his sexual abuse of 14 year old girl that by all acoounts was sexually forward?

"She through herself at me"..... yeah right like that's an excuse. What's next, giving heroin to a ten year old child because they begged for it?

When the child abuse issue concerning the Catholic church was made public..... what was it that incensed people the most....?

THE FACT THAT THEY WENT INTO DAMAGE CONTROL... rather than just wanting to make amends, to the best of their ability wnting to make it right.

It is the same with the WTBTS.... child abuse sadly will always be a problem in all institutions that have a duty of care over children.....

It would be unreasonable to hold the WTBTS responsible for what takes place behind closed doors....

But when a problem is brought to the attention of the elders and they demand 'two witnesses'...

Or the mother is told to go home and pray or as in my expereince a disfellowshipped 'former child abuse'(elders' term not mine) on displaying a suitable level of repentance is readmitted into the cong and then allowed to move with anonymity into a new congreation and in some instance has gone onto abuse again and in the case of Souter repeated the process again.......

They are unforgiveable and anyone even attempting defend them or minimise thier guilt on any level at all.......

Is as complete a display of 'cult dysfunction' as could be....proof that your moral reasoning ability has been tampered with.

JJJ

Surry Hills, Australia

#243 Jun 21, 2012
Of course I meant 'threw' and not through.
non-JW

Mexico

#244 Jun 21, 2012
Why wrote:
<quoted text> Why aren't you blaming the pedophile rather than the witnesses?
Why didn't you blame the pedophile rather than the victim?
non-JW

Mexico

#245 Jun 21, 2012
Why wrote:
<quoted text> Why aren't you blaming the pedophile rather than the witnesses?
Why didn't you protect the victim rather the pedophile?
little lamb

Australia

#246 Jun 21, 2012
JJJ wrote:
When the child abuse issue concerning the Catholic church was made public..... what was it that incensed people the most....?
THE FACT THAT THEY WENT INTO DAMAGE CONTROL... rather than just wanting to make amends, to the best of their ability wnting to make it right.
...
thats the crux of the matter...no care for hurt people, just concern over their own reputation..

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#247 Jun 21, 2012
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
So "brave" she files a civil suit years after the fact because she wants ju$tice rather than pursue true justice against the criminal who [supposedly] abused her.
You ex/antiJW types really need to find a new class of people to look up to.
You need to stop worshiping the WTS..
Even in you not so infinite wisdom ..you should know that a 9 year old wouldn't be able to get a Lawyer.. And facts are he went on and continued doing what he did to her.. with others.. The best way to get a job done is to do it yourself... WTS.. sure didn't change their so called safty plan ... DID they???.. Court records show that said Elders..(Can't remember how they deal with it.) We all know that's a lie.. Unless of course the cong.. has a bumper crop of pedophiles they've had to deal with in the past few years.. Maybe ..just maybe they might not be to clear as to how they dealt with a certain one.. We all know that the WTS.. thinks more about how they look to the world ..then how they look to GOD..
So the justice..you view in you snide manner..was hopefully a wake up call.. That might just possibly... finally get some results.. But as long as the gag orders were working for them.. They thought that the could do the same to her... NOW! How do you think GOD feels about the beating of the sheep.. Hmm!.. Me thinks ..he's had enough.. The truth is out now.. It is no longer covered up.. The man is a pedophile.. In which case... He ..gave up his rights to privacy.. One of the consequences of being caught with your pants down...

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#248 Jun 21, 2012
Corinthian wrote:
<quoted text>
Chan~
I've seen it stated that Bowen and Anderson are proven liars. Where can I did this evidence?
Corinthian
.
. No proof against them... You have to know that the WTS.. would have slapped then with slander and any other complaint they could lay their fingers on... If they could.. That is how they handle things.. Same way they manuver to have peoples sites removed.. Must cost them a fortune..To police the internet..

Since: Feb 08

Oakton, VA

#249 Jun 21, 2012
Where is this case I want to read it.

I will never forget the Elder that knew I was invited by a molester to go on vacation with him and his daughter for the summer the Elders knew and did nothing. It was nothing short of standing by and feeding a child to a wolf.... sorry I have zero sympathy for Elders and those Elders with a conscience usually are shown the door for speaking up God does not stand for this imo....There is a reason the JW geting bad press for child molestation thank goodness for 20/20.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#250 Jun 21, 2012
Maravilla wrote:
<quoted text>
.
. No proof against them... You have to know that the WTS.. would have slapped then with slander and any other complaint they could lay their fingers on... If they could.. That is how they handle things.. Same way they manuver to have peoples sites removed.. Must cost them a fortune..To police the internet..
this is an excellent point!
unlisted

Greensboro, NC

#251 Jun 21, 2012
Lise it is all over... just click on jehovah witness org or watchtower org to pay//

better yet silent lambs has the actual papers on their site... how are you... come on over to the friends thread. no religion just friends talking about pets, plants and friends.. hugs...

JJJ you are correct the catholic church.. mine tried to do damage control but it backfired on them Catholics went on national TV saying it was a disgrace. i am no longer a roman catholic but a catholic as others are also. the way the Catholics and other faiths were abused here ---now the table has turned and the flood gates opened. hopefully many many more now will come out in protest of the men in NY to get out... hope all is well with you.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#252 Jun 21, 2012
lise2468 wrote:
Where is this case I want to read it.
I will never forget the Elder that knew I was invited by a molester to go on vacation with him and his daughter for the summer the Elders knew and did nothing. It was nothing short of standing by and feeding a child to a wolf.... sorry I have zero sympathy for Elders and those Elders with a conscience usually are shown the door for speaking up God does not stand for this imo....There is a reason the JW geting bad press for child molestation thank goodness for 20/20.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new s/article-2160605/Candance-Con ti-molested-Jehovahs-Witnesses -member-age-NINE-wins-28milion .html

Since: Feb 08

Oakton, VA

#253 Jun 21, 2012
array wrote:
Thanks I just read it...

Since: Mar 09

United States

#254 Jun 21, 2012
I believe there is more to the story than we have as yet found out about.
Hoodwinked

Murrieta, CA

#255 Jun 21, 2012
Nomi wrote:
I believe there is more to the story than we have as yet found out about.
I'm sure you need to believe that.
hgp

Braunschweig, Germany

#256 Jun 21, 2012
FHC wrote:
We'll also ignore the fact that a "prominent" anti-pedophile crusader, proven liar and libeler [as well as Coach of Team Conti and "expert" witness] took advantage of just that allowance.
----------
How exactly do we know this?
Is this mentioned anywhere in the court documents?
If yes, where exactly?

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