The WTBTS appeal

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum

Comments (Page 12)

Showing posts 221 - 240 of281
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#236
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

1

FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a "fact," not by a mile.
The "policies" [I noticed you didn't cite one] regarding confidentiality had little, if anything, to do with the original matter which was the 1993 allegation against Kendrick which, according to all available evidence, was agreed - at the time - to have been a misunderstanding.
Sex crimes REQUIRE, if not a full-on sex act or "sexual" touching, an INTENT to commit an act specifically for sexual gratification.
That's why "To Catch A Predator" can film people having lascivious conversations with people online and create a situation where an individual INTENDS to commit a sex act with a minor, even though no sex act occurs.
Kendrick's assertion, at the time, was that the contact with his step-daughter was accidental; at the time, that explanation was accepted. That it later was changed, or that Evelyn Kendrick - 18 years after the fact - offered a new spin on the event doesn't change the FACTS as they were in 1993.
Thus, unknown "policies" aside, at BEST, all that was known about Kendrick following that event was that he had accidentally had contact with his step-daughter, the contact was initially blown out of proportion, and later, for however long a time, accepted as being accidental, that is to say WITHOUT the sort of INTENT required by a sex crime.
How, from that, your Boogeymen are supposed to "know" that your alleged victim was in SPECIFIC danger from Kendrick based upon what they knew in 1993, only you know. Maybe you can explain.
sidgi: Fact, The WTBTS policies were self serving, and had nothing to do with the protection of children
Reply: Which is the same as saying that an individual who seeks legal counsel when they believe they'll be caught up in a legal matter is "self-serving."
That is to say, ridiculous.
In fact, what they do is prudent in avoiding becoming a party to an action they have no real part in, or creating a duty where none existed.
sidgi: Fact, the WTBTS has done everything in it's power to prevent itself from having to pay the penalties for these unloving and child endangering policies...
Reply: The "policy" of encouraging JW elders to seek legal counsel from the Legal Department when serious allegations of things that constitute or could constitute crimes is not "unloving." It's prudent.
The primary duty of JW elders is to the congregation at large, not to any one congregant, be they a professed victim or a confessed wrongdoer.
Minor children have parents whose primary duty is to them, their safety and their health.
sidgi: This time it didn't work, so now they have to face the shame of public ostracism,[with a factual basis].
[Emphasis added]
Reply: Insofar as demonstrable falsehoods constitute "facts."
Fact, the policies of the WTBTS are what got the in trouble, and they are why the WTBTS lost. Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/paedophilia...

Fact, the WTBTS policies are self serving. Their claims of being the fine sheppard to the contrary. They have lulled the congregations into a false sense of security, with their comparison of themselves to Jesus, and their pretended care for the little ones under their care.....

(Matthew 11:28-30) 28 Come to me, all YOU who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh YOU. 29 Take my yoke upon YOU and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and YOU will find refreshment for YOUR souls. 30 For my yoke is kindly and my load is light.”

The prudence would be fine, if they wouldn't leave those requiring help with a FALSE sense of security, as if they were looking out for that individual's best interests, based on the fine sheppard illustration given regularly in Kingdom Hall and Assembly Hall program parts, and by the Elders in question, and by the so-called Faithful and Discrete Slave in their publications. Instead their first concern is to find a way to insulate themselves from the problem.

sidgi

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#237
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

1

The reason the court's decision, and the jury's decision, and the final outcome is appealing to most here, is because the WTBTS has been so vocal in it's condemnation of other religious organizations, for their handling of the same problems. Employing individuals to do damage control on these discussion boards is hilarious.

The only complaint they can make is that they were held to a higher standard than a regular publishing company would be, to the readers of it's books. And that wouldn't be the case if they hadn't insinuated themselves into their readers lives to the point of even being in their bedroom, their hospital room, and demanding that they only associate with people the WTBTS approve of.

(Matthew 13:40-43). . .. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.

sidgi
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#238
Jun 21, 2012
 
sidgi wrote:
The reason the court's decision, and the jury's decision, and the final outcome is appealing to most here, is because the WTBTS has been so vocal in it's condemnation of other religious organizations, for their handling of the same problems. Employing individuals to do damage control on these discussion boards is hilarious.
The only complaint they can make is that they were held to a higher standard than a regular publishing company would be, to the readers of it's books. And that wouldn't be the case if they hadn't insinuated themselves into their readers lives to the point of even being in their bedroom, their hospital room, and demanding that they only associate with people the WTBTS approve of.
(Matthew 13:40-43). . .. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.
sidgi
it is ironic and amazing how that Judge and jury are so ignorant to come up with the verdict they did but if the same jury 's decision was reversed they would be singing their praise as the wisest of juries.
We can all see the JW gnashing of their teeth right here.They are reaping what they have sown as they try to negate a jury's decision and all of a sudden the ignorant ones all become King Solomon.!.
Corinthian

Santa Rosa Beach, FL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#239
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

1

FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
In this specific case, quite a bit of evidence as well as testimony of individuals who were actually involved in the incident that supposedly is the basis for the whole claim was suppressed - by edict of the judge, at the direction of your victim's attorney.
At the same time, your victim's attorney held up as an "expert" witness proven liar Bill Bowen who has been correctly ignored in previous attempts to present himself as an "expert" witness because he had no involvement in and no firsthand knowledge of the case - as he had no involvement with and no firsthand knowledge of this case.
comefluffance: I do know that the silencing of victims, of both child sexual abuse, adult sexual abuse and marital abuse have been to 'keep the law out of it.'
Reply: In THIS case, not even the alleged victim is making that claim, nor was that claim made with regard to the incident which she believes she, specifically, should have been told about - as an 8 year old.
Because I'm sure that as an 8-year old she would have understood the complexities of a family dynamic that included a troubled marriage, a troubled teenager acting out, and two people who, though they couldn't agree on many things, agreed that their daughter was out of control and manipulative. All of that, on top of this claim that, at the time, was agreed to have been a misunderstanding.
[All of which, too, we're to believe was wholly unknown to your alleged victim's parents, who were said to be friends with Mr. Kendrick.]
Would you have understood that, as an 8 year old?
comefluffance: As you have pointed out, they are not police, they are not lawyers, they are not judges.
Reply: Some of them are lawyers. Probably not police or judges presently, but you'd be surprised what some of them used to do.
comefluffance: But they do take on the job of being, police, lawyer, judges and executioners much of the time.'Executioner?' You might ask. Yes, they consider a disfellowshipped person to be spiritually dead, so yes, executioner.
Reply: An exaggeration of the highest magnitude; that there are people out there that are so misguided that actually equate the opinion of a religious sect one is wholly free to join or leave at their leisure, and wholly free to simply ignore, equates to literal death... well, it shouldn't be so shocking, but to actually read this presented as though it's what you actually believe...
I feel sorry for you, I really do.
I don't often feel sorry for people who post here, but I feel sorry for you.
comefluffance: They should not be handling things themselves without the [education] and [skills] to do so...
So, just so we're clear, what your alleging is that it's impossible for "simple" men to handle the responsibility of shepherding "god's" flock, without [secular] education and "skills?"
It seems to me that the apostles did just that.
Chan~

I've seen it stated that Bowen and Anderson are proven liars. Where can I did this evidence?

Corinthian
Corinthian

Santa Rosa Beach, FL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#240
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

2

2

FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
: But they do take on the job of being, police, lawyer, judges and executioners much of the time.'Executioner?' You might ask. Yes, they consider a disfellowshipped person to be spiritually dead, so yes, executioner.
Reply: An exaggeration of the highest magnitude; that there are people out there that are so misguided that actually equate the opinion of a religious sect one is wholly free to join or leave at their leisure, and wholly free to simply ignore, equates to literal death... well, it shouldn't be so shocking, but to actually read this presented as though it's what you actually believe...
I feel sorry for you, I really do.
I don't often feel sorry for people who post here, but I feel sorry for you.
Chan~

Sure, sounds easy. People often say that a battered spouse can just walk away if her/his own volition. I don't think Uppy was exaggerating. My experience with Witnesses has been throughout my life, attending many meetings and conventions/assemblies. I've spent countless hours socially with Witnesses. This is my experience.

Growing up, I spent a vast amount of my childhood with my Witness Aunt and cousin. As a result of that, I met and associated with a great many witnesses over the years. For years, my aunt was close to a large family of Witnesses. I met one of the teenagers in this family when I was still young (around 10). I will call him Chris. I hung out with him in social groups of witnesses several times, went to eat in groups with him, etc. so, he and his family remained close to my aunt. I know my aunt really loved Chris, as she told me she did in several occasions. Another close family of friends of my aunts became close to Chris. They had 3 young boys. Chris became their mentor....babysat them, took them places...became a big brother.

Fast forward....I was with my aunt and cousin and they mention Chris had been disfellowshipped. I was shocked! Because of my aunt being close to both Chris and the family with the boys, she knew he had been disfellowshipped for molesting the boys (and knew that the boys were seeking therapy as a result). I was floored!!!

The BIGGEST thing that sticks out in my mind of her telling me this (besides the molestations, of course) is this...

My aunt said at the meeting when Chris' disfellowshipping was announced, his family cried and wailed in the Kingdom Hall as if they were at a funeral<-----HER WORD.

When I asked her why...her response was as followed, verbatim.....

"Because once you are disfellowshipped, you are viewed as dead in the eyes of Witnesses.". She said this with tears in her eyes.

I've had this notion reiterated to me over the years by my other Witness family members. Where would they get this notion? WHY would they think this if it wasn't an understood concept for that person to become spiritually dead to Witnesses?

I realize now that there may be more leniency with communication with disfellowshipped family members, but at that time, that is how it was.

Corinthian
comeuppance

Bonnots Mill, MO

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#241
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

1

OMG, you forgot to change my username on the first of this lengthy page of repeating yourself, Chand, what happened? I'm disappointed in you. LOL

I have so moved on from this case, to look at the bigger picture, and clearly have said how things have been handled on a general level, by the WTS and you continued to run back to thinking that I am talking about this case in particular. The silencing of reports is much too widely known to have come from my imagination. The reporting laws do not give room for wasting God knows how much time in calling the WT legal department when a crime has been committed. If they did their part in calling the police when a crime has been alleged, they wouldn't be spending so much time paying lawyers themselves for defending them for breaking those laws. There would be plenty of time to call the legal department, after they have obeyed the law, and wouldn't end up endangering themselves, or their elders with criminal charges for not having done so. And even more so, do they break the law when they try to silence a victim of the crime, in hopes that it can be made to just go away, so that the WTS isn't exposed as actually having criminals among them just like every other group of people. In any group of individuals, there is going to be a certain number of bad people. They know this, but they want to put up a screen to act as if they don't have them among their own.
If they did obey the laws, they could stand before the law and say, we did our part, we followed the law and we are blameless in this crime. If a reported crime of child abuse is found to be unsustantiated, they cannot be held responsible for a "false report," because they were obeying the law in reporting. In fact, it's a greater protection for the elders and the WTS to comply with such laws.
Anyone who is put in control of a group of people should have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the laws that govern the position. The laws of reporting child abuse are so widely known, that there is no excuse for not knowing them. I guarantee every dr, nurse, nurse's aid, school teacher, school aid etc, know these reporting laws. So, if someone agrees to be an elder, by law called a clergyman, they should make it their business to know what secular laws they will be bound by, and the GB should in no way attempt to keep them from obeying those laws. There is no room for claiming they had to call a lawyer to find out what common laws are.
If you drive a car, you are bound to know what the driving laws are. You shouldn't be behind the wheel if you don't know those laws, and if you are stopped for disobeying them, ignorance won't get you out of a ticket. So, if you are going to allow yourself to be appointed as a clergyman, you should know what the laws that govern being in the position are, or you shouldn't allow yourself to be in the position.
When a crime isn't promptly reported, there is time for evidence to be tampered with, or to be destroyed, hidden etc. That is why prompt reporting laws are in place.
The WTS and many other sects are running a business and practicing a religion in this country. If they don't want to obey the laws of this country, then they need to pack up and move out!

What exactly do you feel sorry for me for? For having a thought that doesn't directly agree with yours?

And Ms. Conti is not my victim. I didn't molest her. That was someone else.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#242
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

1

This issue is not simply an academic exercise in semantics....

There is no debate on this issue... not for reasonable people...

We are talking about children..... and no matter what the circumstances may be when an issue involes both adults and children common decency and the law will recognise the disparity that exists between the parties involved.....

What did one JW elder state regarding his sexual abuse of 14 year old girl that by all acoounts was sexually forward?

"She through herself at me"..... yeah right like that's an excuse. What's next, giving heroin to a ten year old child because they begged for it?

When the child abuse issue concerning the Catholic church was made public..... what was it that incensed people the most....?

THE FACT THAT THEY WENT INTO DAMAGE CONTROL... rather than just wanting to make amends, to the best of their ability wnting to make it right.

It is the same with the WTBTS.... child abuse sadly will always be a problem in all institutions that have a duty of care over children.....

It would be unreasonable to hold the WTBTS responsible for what takes place behind closed doors....

But when a problem is brought to the attention of the elders and they demand 'two witnesses'...

Or the mother is told to go home and pray or as in my expereince a disfellowshipped 'former child abuse'(elders' term not mine) on displaying a suitable level of repentance is readmitted into the cong and then allowed to move with anonymity into a new congreation and in some instance has gone onto abuse again and in the case of Souter repeated the process again.......

They are unforgiveable and anyone even attempting defend them or minimise thier guilt on any level at all.......

Is as complete a display of 'cult dysfunction' as could be....proof that your moral reasoning ability has been tampered with.

JJJ

Sydney, Australia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#243
Jun 21, 2012
 
Of course I meant 'threw' and not through.
non-JW

Mexico

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#244
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

2

2

2

Why wrote:
<quoted text> Why aren't you blaming the pedophile rather than the witnesses?
Why didn't you blame the pedophile rather than the victim?
non-JW

Mexico

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#245
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

4

3

2

Why wrote:
<quoted text> Why aren't you blaming the pedophile rather than the witnesses?
Why didn't you protect the victim rather the pedophile?
little lamb

Australia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#246
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

3

2

1

JJJ wrote:
When the child abuse issue concerning the Catholic church was made public..... what was it that incensed people the most....?
THE FACT THAT THEY WENT INTO DAMAGE CONTROL... rather than just wanting to make amends, to the best of their ability wnting to make it right.
...
thats the crux of the matter...no care for hurt people, just concern over their own reputation..

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#247
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

2

2

2

FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
So "brave" she files a civil suit years after the fact because she wants ju$tice rather than pursue true justice against the criminal who [supposedly] abused her.
You ex/antiJW types really need to find a new class of people to look up to.
You need to stop worshiping the WTS..
Even in you not so infinite wisdom ..you should know that a 9 year old wouldn't be able to get a Lawyer.. And facts are he went on and continued doing what he did to her.. with others.. The best way to get a job done is to do it yourself... WTS.. sure didn't change their so called safty plan ... DID they???.. Court records show that said Elders..(Can't remember how they deal with it.) We all know that's a lie.. Unless of course the cong.. has a bumper crop of pedophiles they've had to deal with in the past few years.. Maybe ..just maybe they might not be to clear as to how they dealt with a certain one.. We all know that the WTS.. thinks more about how they look to the world ..then how they look to GOD..
So the justice..you view in you snide manner..was hopefully a wake up call.. That might just possibly... finally get some results.. But as long as the gag orders were working for them.. They thought that the could do the same to her... NOW! How do you think GOD feels about the beating of the sheep.. Hmm!.. Me thinks ..he's had enough.. The truth is out now.. It is no longer covered up.. The man is a pedophile.. In which case... He ..gave up his rights to privacy.. One of the consequences of being caught with your pants down...

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#248
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

2

2

2

Corinthian wrote:
<quoted text>
Chan~
I've seen it stated that Bowen and Anderson are proven liars. Where can I did this evidence?
Corinthian
.
. No proof against them... You have to know that the WTS.. would have slapped then with slander and any other complaint they could lay their fingers on... If they could.. That is how they handle things.. Same way they manuver to have peoples sites removed.. Must cost them a fortune..To police the internet..

Since: Feb 08

Reston, VA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#249
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

4

4

4

Where is this case I want to read it.

I will never forget the Elder that knew I was invited by a molester to go on vacation with him and his daughter for the summer the Elders knew and did nothing. It was nothing short of standing by and feeding a child to a wolf.... sorry I have zero sympathy for Elders and those Elders with a conscience usually are shown the door for speaking up God does not stand for this imo....There is a reason the JW geting bad press for child molestation thank goodness for 20/20.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#250
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Maravilla wrote:
<quoted text>
.
. No proof against them... You have to know that the WTS.. would have slapped then with slander and any other complaint they could lay their fingers on... If they could.. That is how they handle things.. Same way they manuver to have peoples sites removed.. Must cost them a fortune..To police the internet..
this is an excellent point!
unlisted

Mebane, NC

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#251
Jun 21, 2012
 
Lise it is all over... just click on jehovah witness org or watchtower org to pay//

better yet silent lambs has the actual papers on their site... how are you... come on over to the friends thread. no religion just friends talking about pets, plants and friends.. hugs...

JJJ you are correct the catholic church.. mine tried to do damage control but it backfired on them Catholics went on national TV saying it was a disgrace. i am no longer a roman catholic but a catholic as others are also. the way the Catholics and other faiths were abused here ---now the table has turned and the flood gates opened. hopefully many many more now will come out in protest of the men in NY to get out... hope all is well with you.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#252
Jun 21, 2012
 
lise2468 wrote:
Where is this case I want to read it.
I will never forget the Elder that knew I was invited by a molester to go on vacation with him and his daughter for the summer the Elders knew and did nothing. It was nothing short of standing by and feeding a child to a wolf.... sorry I have zero sympathy for Elders and those Elders with a conscience usually are shown the door for speaking up God does not stand for this imo....There is a reason the JW geting bad press for child molestation thank goodness for 20/20.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new s/article-2160605/Candance-Con ti-molested-Jehovahs-Witnesses -member-age-NINE-wins-28milion .html

Since: Feb 08

Reston, VA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#253
Jun 21, 2012
 
array wrote:
Thanks I just read it...

Since: Mar 09

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#254
Jun 21, 2012
 
I believe there is more to the story than we have as yet found out about.
Hoodwinked

Hemet, CA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#255
Jun 21, 2012
 

Judged:

3

3

3

Nomi wrote:
I believe there is more to the story than we have as yet found out about.
I'm sure you need to believe that.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Showing posts 221 - 240 of281
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:
Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000
Type the numbers you see in the image on the right:

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

•••
•••
•••
•••