Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse

Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse

There are 434 comments on the Poynter story from Dec 29, 2008, titled Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse. In it, Poynter reports that:

View all Abuse Tracker feedback Page 1 of 1 Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse Posted by Danny Haszard 12/29/2008 4:20:40 PM The Jehovah's Witnesses have settled lawsuits alleging church policies protected ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Poynter.

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#80 Jan 8, 2009
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
Notwithstanding the court sealing these settlements, one was inadvertently released by a court official. Within a few days of this mishap the court requested the receiving party not to publish the information, which they complied with. This request is also a matter of public record. However, the contents of the settlement document had already been shared with third party concerns; hence the contents are known.
I saw the document myself, and so did major media outlets. It documented the settlement offered (and accepted) to plaintiff Sarah Howard (the plaintiff S.H. in “A.B., G.G., S.H., N.H., et al vs. WT”) by the Watchtower organization for the sum of 781,250 US dollars for Sarah to drop the lawsuit against Watchtower.
All you have is mere speculation. As I have already shown the 700,000 cannot be multiplied by 16 as many have tried to do. Every case is different.

For example, the AmyB case was one of those cases and the WTS had already been dismissed from that suit. Thus the WTS paid 0 dollars for settlement in the AmyB case. The defendants also included the molester themselves. How much of the settlements are they responsible for? We just have no way of knowing.

The claims of the dollar amount that the WTS paid are mere worthless baseless speculation.

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81 Jan 8, 2009
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
It is no myth that Watchtower has been hit hard financially by the many lawsuits filed against it alleging its negligence and responsibility for instances of child molestation.
Then please provide such proof if it is no myth. Speculation is not proof by the way.

You may have heard that the settlements involved MILLIONS of dollars. Those who make such claims really have no idea of the amount. They are merely guessing and it is a baseless guess. Innocent defendants oftentimes offer settlements to end cases and if we look at history of the Watchtower Society we will see that they almost always do the same. This is no indication of guilt on the part of the defendant. While there is no way of knowing how much was offered in these 9 cases involving 16 alleged victims, there are two cases we know details about that we can look at as a barometer.

First lets examine an abuse case brought against the Mormon Church because of John Charles Blome. Quoting from one source we read: "This civil case was filed in Montgomery County, Texas and went to jury trial. The case settled for $4 Million after the Mormons were found negligent. A 13 year old boy who was molested by a Mormon Church youth leader in Magnolia Ward was awarded more than his own lawyers sought October 8, 1998. Blome molested many other boys from the same area and in other areas. Sheriff's deputies were upset that the Mormon Bishop tipped Blome to the pending investigation, and he burned evidence before it could be seized. In an earlier case against Blome the Mormon Church was also found negligent."

As you see this case went before the jury and the Mormon Church was found negligent. Then what happened? It was settled for 4 million dollars. And as you see this was the SECOND time the Church had been found negligent because of this man. We can certainly realize that this is one of the worse cases of negligence that could possibly happen. Now, when considering the above case, does it seem plausible to believe that the Watchtower Society would make a settlement offer of 3 or 4 million dollars per case BEFORE the trials, equaling what the Mormons paid AFTER being found negligent in court, not once but twice, in addition to being found guilty of burning evidence? Why, before the trial even began, would the Watchtower Society offer as much as they would stand to lose even if they were found negligent as a result of the trial? Millions of dollars offered by the Watchtower Society pre-trial? Highly unlikely!

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#82 Jan 8, 2009
Allow me to give examples of what is real proof if I may.

"A man, 28, who was recovering from epileptic seizures in his apartment when he was attacked, will receive $300,000 in damages from the Sierra Vista Baptist Church for the sexual assault by John Adams Marshall in April 1991. Marshall performed oral sex and fondled the weakened man while pinning him down. The jury found the church 40% liable for Marshall's assault and negligent in retaining him as minister. Marshall did not lose his ordination to be a minister elsewhere." (Inland Valley Daily Bulletin 1/15/94)

"Miami, FL. CHURCH TO PAY MILLIONS FOR MINISTER'S ABUSES. Wayside Baptist Church in Miami received a $6.7 million judgment for negligence in hiring and retaining Keith Geren as youth minister. The church did not do background or reference checks, nor did Geren even fill out a job application, though Geren did admit urges to molest boys. He sexually molested nearly a dozen teenage boys." (Sarasota Herald-Tribune 2/6/94)

"Denver, CO. Bohrer was awarded more than $700,000 in her civil suit in Denver District against former minister Daniel DeHart and the United Methodist Annual Conference (the equivalent of a diocese). She alleged DeHart seduced her into a sexual relationship when she was 13 and he was youth minister at First Methodist Church in Greeley." (Rocky Mountain News, 8/2,29/92)

"In a civil suit filed by three sisters, now 19,16,and 13; their mother and another 13 year-old girl a Kenai jury awarded nearly $430,000 in damages to the four girls sexually molested by Tickel. The jury also found that Trickel; his wife, Debbie; and the Salvation Army responsible for their abuse." ( http://www.adn.com/alaska/story/4752362p-4698... )

"...a Church of Christ church and & its former 59 year-old minister agreed to pay $300,000 to a man whom the former minister sexually assaulted during family counseling sessions. Earlier, a boy, now 17, was awarded $450,000 by a jury for similar charges." (The Rocky Mountain News)

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#83 Jan 8, 2009
"$450,000 jury award against UNITED METHODIST CHURCH OF ILLINOIS upheld by Judge Stuart Shiffman involving REV. WILLIAM FYFFE, who molested 3 brothers in Macon, 1982. The church was held responsible because it knew Fyffe had molested boys at Taylor Ridge parish, 1975, but still ordained him, expunged records of counseling for molestation, and transferred him into a community unaware of the episodes." (Quad-City Times, 9/7/89; 10/18/89)

"One of the largest settlements to date in Protestant churches involved the case of former Lutheran minister Gerald Patrick Thomas Jr. in Texas, where a jury several years ago awarded the minister's victims nearly $37 million. Separate earlier settlements involving Thomas cost an additional $32 million." ( Insurancejournal.com )

"Two college-age sisters have been awarded $4.2 million in a lawsuit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a judgment prompted partly by the way a bishop dealt with sexual abuse committed by their stepfather while they were children."

"John Charles Blome This civil case was filed in Montgomery County, Texas and went to jury trial. The case settled for $4 Million after the Mormons were found negligent. A 13 year old boy who was molested by a Mormon Church youth leader in Magnolia Ward was awarded more than his own lawyers sought October 8, 1998. Blome molested many other boys from the same area and in other areas. Sheriff's deputies were upset that the Mormon Bishop tipped Blome to the pending investigation, and he burned evidence before it could be seized. In an earlier case against Blome the Mormon Church was also found negligent." (Houston Chronicle)

"Michael Rex Shean This case arose in Santa Maria, California. Shean was an attorney and Mormon Church leader who used his position as coach, attorney, and religious teacher to groom boys for seduction. The Stake President in the case was an FBI agent, Nolan Phillips, who should have been much more alert to the problem of a predatory pedophile in his flock. The Mormon Church was found negligent and settled for an undisclosed amount." ( Geocities.com )

In fact, it seems to have gotten to the point where the Boston Globe even reported that "...large Catholic, Anglican, United, and Presbyterian church organizations are facing bankruptcy because of claims of sexual and physical abuse." (Boston Globe, 8/2/2002)

Merely be doing a quick google search, you will find that every major 'Christian' religion has been found negligent by the courts and have been forced to pay damages. For example, the Catholic Church has paid out more than $2 billion. Even the Mormon Church has paid at least $10 million after being found negligent.

Now please, show us the millions awarded by the court for JWs negligence in child abuse cases.

We will anxiously stand by.
diogenes

Dallas, TX

#84 Jan 8, 2009
panda wrote:
to Diogenes: I find your use of the law in these cases quite shameful.
I will ask you this WHAT DO YOU THINK JEHOVAH WOULD THINK OF CHILDREN BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED IN HIS NAME.
I would think he would destroy them along with the other wicked people. However I would like to think that he would make them suffer a little more.
panda wrote:
We are talking about children that cannot defend themselves because they need two witnesses. I find people like you disgraceful and to be called a fellow witness, b/s I would have you marked.
That is why ALL in the congregation have a duty to report to the police any circumstance where a child may be in danger. However you make the mistake in lumping the two witness rule into the criminal justice system. The criminal justice system has its own standard for determining someones guilt or innocence. The congregation has its own set of standards, namely the two witness rule. The consequences of one could mean incarceration for the rest of their lives, the consequences of the other could mean removing them from the congregation. Two totally different standards, just as it should be. Do you think they should be the same?
panda wrote:
You have absolutely no human feelings. I think you are a disgrace and if anyone should be disfellowshiped it should be YOU, but hey one cant get disfellowshiped for lack of love can they.
Really? I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion. However I noticed that you don't say a word about JJJ who claims to know of a pedophile endangering children and yet refuses to report it to the authorities. If I had done such a thing then you opinion of me would be spot on.
panda wrote:
Jehovah will clean out the dross like you within the congregations, and any other b/s who is as heartless and twisted as you thrown out with the rest of garbage that prey on those that can't defend themselves and ones like you that condone it.
I absolutely do not prey or condone. I think they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And if while in prison they meet their untimely death that would be fine by me as well.
panda wrote:
how can you compare a teenager with a child.
you make me ill.
It is the legislature that determines who is and who is not a minor. If it makes you ill you need to discuss it with them.
Someone

Krommenie, Netherlands

#85 Jan 8, 2009
http://www.10news.com/news/18433734/detail.ht... #

Such a great witness and testimony

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#86 Jan 8, 2009
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
That Thirdwitness’ preferential web site cites Mario Moreno’s 2004 statement that “So far the plaintiffs are not doing well” and applies it to cases where large settlements resulted is, to say the least, ignorant.
Again you merely speculate about 'large settlements'. You have no idea.

Don't is seem quite strange that the lawsuits against JWs for child abuse negligence seem to have reached their end. Where is Norris and Love? Where is Jeff Anderson? Where is Nolon Brelsford?

Do you realize that every one of these law firms thought they had a case against the WTS and every single time they found out their case was not as good as they thought. No victories for any of them. And now, they seem to not be taking cases against the WTS. I wonder why?

Perhaps it stems from the fact that JWs child abuse policy is head and shoulders above all other religions. Their time and money could be better spent suing those religions whose child abuse policy is woefully lacking and who have actually lost cases in court and had to pay out millions.

Yes it is just as Moreno said: "So far the plaintiffs are not doing well”. Only 'ignorant' ones who care nothing about this little thing called facts would say otherwise.
son of mr fenger

Texarkana, TX

#87 Jan 8, 2009
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>
So JJJ says,'No we have never had child molesters in our organization.'
The WTS said:'Yes we have had to disfellowship child molesters from the organization.'
Now JJJ blames the WT for his ignorance in what he said. It is a typical tactic of opposers.
This is an outright lie, jjj never said what you just said he did, read posts 62,67,70 for an accurate statement of what he said.

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#88 Jan 8, 2009
Someone wrote:
http://www.10news.com/news/184 33734/detail.html#
Such a great witness and testimony
Yes I'm glad he's not one of Jehovah's Witnesses any longer. Of course, if he were a Catholic priest before, you might find him down at the local Catholic Church administering communion. That would be a good place for the police to start looking for him.

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#89 Jan 8, 2009
Ironically, it was Silentlambs founder, Bill Bowen, who said in a radio interview with Meria Hellar in April of 2002:

"A civil lawsuit was filed against the Watchtower Society in January I mean July of this year, and others are stepping up right behind them. If they won't answer this problem morally, then we will answer this in the courts and let's see how they stand the litmus test of the United States justice system for what they've done for children."

Astute observation on the part of Bowen. The WTS has passed that 'litmus test of the United States justice system' with flying colors thus far.

But hey, lets wait and see if Shimler will provide us the cases where the WTS was found negligent in a court of law and was ordered to pay millions of dollars to the victim.

In the very next post by Shimler that is what I will be looking for but I suspect I will get the usual rhetoric.
son of mr fenger

Texarkana, TX

#90 Jan 8, 2009
diogenes wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you are not aware of this but under the eyes of the law, two teenagers having sex is considered child molestation. There are hundreds of teens on the Arizona Sex Offender registery for doing nothing more than having consensual sex.
Man, you are sure hung up on the "two teenagers having sex thing", arent you. a forty five yr old guy doing a 9-12 yr old girl is, Just a little different than consentual teenage sex.
this has got to be the lamest excuse for sheltering child molesters I have ever heard.

I will never understand why you and third w. go to such great lengths to protect these fuckers. I quess it is just that you would rather an abused child suffer, than have anyone think badly of the wts's handeling of this prob.
Reader

Brantford, Canada

#91 Jan 8, 2009
Thirdwitness wrote:
"$450,000 jury award against UNITED METHODIST CHURCH OF ILLINOIS upheld by Judge Stuart Shiffman involving REV. WILLIAM FYFFE, who molested 3 brothers in Macon, 1982. The church was held responsible because it knew Fyffe had molested boys at Taylor Ridge parish, 1975, but still ordained him, expunged records of counseling for molestation, and transferred him into a community unaware of the episodes." (Quad-City Times, 9/7/89; 10/18/89)
"One of the largest settlements to date in Protestant churches involved the case of former Lutheran minister Gerald Patrick Thomas Jr. in Texas, where a jury several years ago awarded the minister's victims nearly $37 million. Separate earlier settlements involving Thomas cost an additional $32 million." ( Insurancejournal.com )
"Two college-age sisters have been awarded $4.2 million in a lawsuit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a judgment prompted partly by the way a bishop dealt with sexual abuse committed by their stepfather while they were children."
"John Charles Blome This civil case was filed in Montgomery County, Texas and went to jury trial. The case settled for $4 Million after the Mormons were found negligent. A 13 year old boy who was molested by a Mormon Church youth leader in Magnolia Ward was awarded more than his own lawyers sought October 8, 1998. Blome molested many other boys from the same area and in other areas. Sheriff's deputies were upset that the Mormon Bishop tipped Blome to the pending investigation, and he burned evidence before it could be seized. In an earlier case against Blome the Mormon Church was also found negligent." (Houston Chronicle)
"Michael Rex Shean This case arose in Santa Maria, California. Shean was an attorney and Mormon Church leader who used his position as coach, attorney, and religious teacher to groom boys for seduction. The Stake President in the case was an FBI agent, Nolan Phillips, who should have been much more alert to the problem of a predatory pedophile in his flock. The Mormon Church was found negligent and settled for an undisclosed amount." ( Geocities.com )
In fact, it seems to have gotten to the point where the Boston Globe even reported that "...large Catholic, Anglican, United, and Presbyterian church organizations are facing bankruptcy because of claims of sexual and physical abuse." (Boston Globe, 8/2/2002)
Merely be doing a quick google search, you will find that every major 'Christian' religion has been found negligent by the courts and have been forced to pay damages. For example, the Catholic Church has paid out more than $2 billion. Even the Mormon Church has paid at least $10 million after being found negligent.
Now please, show us the millions awarded by the court for JWs negligence in child abuse cases.
We will anxiously stand by.
tw, you willfully ignore that the WT handles these cases differently than the other churches. They want to avoid bad publicity. This is a known fact to anyone who is/was inside.

Instead of facing the court, they choose to pay out before trial, and require a gag order. If they were actually innocent of the accusations, then why did they cough up $700,000+ per claimant in the last lawsuit? Was it because the world wide work is almost done and they have extra money?
They have much experience in the legal system, you know that. It is a calculated measure to avoid convictions, and to have things tied up in gag orders.

That way, when someone on the 'net says, "Where are the convictions?" they can honestly say there are no US convictions. But that doesn't tell the whole story.

Only a fool would think so.
diogenes

Dallas, TX

#92 Jan 8, 2009
son of mr fenger wrote:
<quoted text>
Man, you are sure hung up on the "two teenagers having sex thing", arent you. a forty five yr old guy doing a 9-12 yr old girl is, Just a little different than consentual teenage sex.
I think you are finally getting it. It is not the same and should be treated differently. That is why there needs to be some DISCREETION. If it involves two teenagers you should allow the parents to decide if they want to press charges or not.

“thirdwitness.com”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#93 Jan 8, 2009
Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
tw, you willfully ignore that the WT handles these cases differently than the other churches. They want to avoid bad publicity. This is a known fact to anyone who is/was inside..
Yes I suppose you are right. Other churches welcome bad publicity. They probably wanted to lose in court.
Reader wrote:
Instead of facing the court, they choose to pay out before trial, and require a gag order. If they were actually innocent of the accusations,.
Do you mean like the Vicki Boer case. They WERE without a doubt actually innocent of the accusations and that was proven in court. Still they offered to settle the case before going to court. So much for your claim.
Reader wrote:
then why did they cough up $700,000+ per claimant in the last lawsuit?.
Why do you mimic other opposers when neither you nor they have ever provided such evidence. Just go ahead and say whatever you like. Who cares about evidence? Why don't you just start saying they paid the victims 100 zillion dollars per claimant?
Reader wrote:
They have much experience in the legal system, you know that. It is a calculated measure to avoid convictions, and to have things tied up in gag orders.
That way, when someone on the 'net says, "Where are the convictions?" they can honestly say there are no US convictions. But that doesn't tell the whole story.
Only a fool would think so.
Yes those Catholic lawyers have no experience in lawsuits. They are just some backwood country lawyers. Oh yeah, and the Catholic Church doesn't have as much money as the WTS to hire good lawyers either.

Hey, all the plaintiffs and Norris had to do was turn down the settlement offer and the gag order and go to court since their case was so rock solid. Somehow, after Kimberlee Norris began to see the REAL evidence, I think she probably did not want to take that crap shoot and wind up like the lawyers in the Vicki Boer case. She apparently strongly advised ALL of her plaintiffs to take the settlement. Who knows, she may have wanted to even pull out if the settlement was not taken. It did start out as 17 cases against the WTS in California and had dropped down to only 6 remaining.
Reader

Brantford, Canada

#94 Jan 8, 2009
This is the last I am going to post on this topic to you. You really are a waste of time. You are arrogant and dim witted. You actually think your life depends on forming a cogent argument, yet you still can't do it.
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I suppose you are right. Other churches welcome bad publicity. They probably wanted to lose in court.
Straw man. That is not what I said. There are many reasons to actually go to court, not the least of which is you can't reach an equitable settlement outside of it.
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>Do you mean like the Vicki Boer case. They WERE without a doubt actually innocent of the accusations and that was proven in court. Still they offered to settle the case before going to court. So much for your claim.
Misinformation - incomplete information. You do not understand Canadian law. They were not found innocent. In the original judgment on the facts, before the court costs issue, the she was awarded a $5000 settlement from the WT society. That shows liability.
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>Why do you mimic other opposers when neither you nor they have ever provided such evidence. Just go ahead and say whatever you like. Who cares about evidence? Why don't you just start saying they paid the victims 100 zillion dollars per claimant?
Straw man and incomplete information The figure of 700K is a legitimate number in one case, and it has been extrapolated out by others. It is incomplete information because of a gag order.
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>Yes those Catholic lawyers have no experience in lawsuits. They are just some backwood country lawyers. Oh yeah, and the Catholic Church doesn't have as much money as the WTS to hire good lawyers either.
Straw Man I did not say that. There are different tactics to use in court. And failure is always an option.
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>Hey, all the plaintiffs and Norris had to do was turn down the settlement offer and the gag order and go to court since their case was so rock solid.
Wow, and bona fide argument. This is true, but there are also many reasons not to go to court, not the least of which is the pain of the victims. Many abuse victims are horrified of what happened to them, they turn to drugs or other self destructive behavior. A perfect example familiar to Canadians is Theoren Fleury, a hockey star who was molested by an usher at Maple Leaf Gardens, I believe.
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>Somehow, after Kimberlee Norris began to see the REAL evidence, I think she probably did not want to take that crap shoot and wind up like the lawyers in the Vicki Boer case. She apparently strongly advised ALL of her plaintiffs to take the settlement. Who knows, she may have wanted to even pull out if the settlement was not taken.
Misleading This is complete wishful thinking on your part. You have no idea of what actually went on during the deliberations with the clients. You have no first hand knowledge of the events, and no second, or third hand knowledge, just guessing.
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>It did start out as 17 cases against the WTS in California and had dropped down to only 6 remaining.
Fact with out point So? Is six molested children within the confines of acceptability? Is there a certain threshold of number of abused children which would offend you? Is that number somewhere between 6 and 17?
JJJ

Australia

#95 Jan 8, 2009
And in all witless's drivel....

Not one heart felt comment stating hw abhorrent child abuse is...

When this topic comes up..... the only issues he sees are legalistic.

What a disturbing man.
Danny

Bangor, ME

#96 Jan 9, 2009
LOOK!! This Jehovah's Witnesses child predator is NOW the MOST WANTED PEDOPHILE IN THE USA

[He is the most wanted child predator in the U.S. right now,” said Supervisor Deputy U.S. Marshal Steve Jurman.

Frederick Cecil McLean, 57, has been on the run since a warrant was issued for his arrest in January 2005, when he was charged in San Diego Superior Court with four counts of child molestation and one count of lewd and lascivious acts with a child younger than 14, Jurman said.
Since then, numerous victims have come forward and have alleged 100 more molestations, Jurman said.

McLean used his position as a respected member of the Jehovah's Witnesses to gain trust, Jurman said.]

"100+ MORE MOLESTATIONS BY THIS CREEP"

Since: Feb 08

Alexandria, VA

#97 Jan 9, 2009
son of mr fenger wrote:
<quoted text>
Man, you are sure hung up on the "two teenagers having sex thing", arent you. a forty five yr old guy doing a 9-12 yr old girl is, Just a little different than consentual teenage sex.
this has got to be the lamest excuse for sheltering child molesters I have ever heard.
I will never understand why you and third w. go to such great lengths to protect these fuckers. I quess it is just that you would rather an abused child suffer, than have anyone think badly of the wts's handeling of this prob.


They both are As Thick As Manure And Only Half As Useful.

Since: Feb 08

Alexandria, VA

#98 Jan 9, 2009
Danny wrote:
LOOK!! This Jehovah's Witnesses child predator is NOW the MOST WANTED PEDOPHILE IN THE USA
[He is the most wanted child predator in the U.S. right now,” said Supervisor Deputy U.S. Marshal Steve Jurman.
Frederick Cecil McLean, 57, has been on the run since a warrant was issued for his arrest in January 2005, when he was charged in San Diego Superior Court with four counts of child molestation and one count of lewd and lascivious acts with a child younger than 14, Jurman said.
Since then, numerous victims have come forward and have alleged 100 more molestations, Jurman said.
McLean used his position as a respected member of the Jehovah's Witnesses to gain trust, Jurman said.]
"100+ MORE MOLESTATIONS BY THIS CREEP"
I know how to find him Danny. He is in some KH right as we speak. Of course no Elder will tell you this it is privilage inforomation therefore they may not divulge it.
Reader

Brantford, Canada

#99 Jan 9, 2009
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>It did start out as 17 cases against the WTS in California and had dropped down to only 6 remaining.

Fact with out point So? Is six molested children within the confines of acceptability? Is there a certain threshold of number of abused children which would offend you? Is that number somewhere between 6 and 17?

Just thought I would remind tw that I am still awaiting his comment on this.

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