why cant jws answer simple questions?

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#1979 Feb 3, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
<quoted text>
SNIP SNIP

What do you mean Jesus HAD BECOME a spirit. You mean He died and God had to recreate him again for the 3rd time. The angels parked their spirits in the closet while they came to earth in flesh. OK Dave, If you say so!
Continued....
ihv that sounds more like almost like evolution to me lol.. he was a mere spirit had to become man before he could evolve into an aruchangel.. then there that other thing..lol
will

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#1980 Feb 3, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
You see JWs have SNIP SNIPIf all God is doing is recreating copies of me, then I am not loving God to save myself or praying for my family. I am loving God so he can play games making copies of me from his memory, Jesus as well! That's just great for HIM and all the other copies, however none of them in any sense will be me, except to the game master, if there is no continuation of something more than Gods memory.
What I am getting at Dave, is any man can run their own line of interpretation to suit.
Jesus talking to the spirits in prison makes the JWs interpretations false.
ihv kinda sounds like a board game where you lose your favorite piece.. so you go to ebay and find one like it and replace your fav piese.. it looks the same so what the heck..

in front of my computer i have a piciture o fmy father and mother and I. IN A BEAUTIFUL FRAME... i also have pictures of it.. but if it ever gets destroyed i will never be able to have the original again.. i will be able to make copies and thats the wt resurrection
will

“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#1981 Feb 3, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
To the contrary, you know Scripture enough to twist them into full untruths. But I'm just letting you talk and let my Scripture responses straighten you out - or try to.
:)
Believe me if I'm wrong I want to know it.So help me out by answering post # 1949,1956,1959,and 1967.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1982 Feb 3, 2013
fds wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi
The difference being that JWs would claim Catholics have never been led by God's Holy Spirit, So they can make changes because what illuminates them is at best human reasoning or a worst Satan.
Whereas, JWS believe they have been led directly by Jehovah 100%
Let me ask you this: when the Israelites were led in the wilderness by Moses as Jehovah's means of communicating in part with that group, do you think Jehovah led them? Either in part, or 100% of the time?
fds wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore you cannot compare the two.
I can, and find it an apt comparison upon occasion.
fds wrote:
<quoted text>
So its not a matter of Human presumption with JWS. You must be aware of all the boastings of the WTBTS over the years, from Russell, Rutherford, Knor,Franz, even up to today. Just look at the Revelation Grand Climax book chapter 20 where the WTBTS tells exactly how the "Lightening Flashes issue forth from Jehovahs Throne to the Organisation" that's present day light that is still applicable.
And Yes as God is my witness, Rutherford believed in spirit messages directing not only his own brain, but the brains of the anointed at Brooklyn.
So get your analogies and similertudes correct.
If he did, that does not mean that this is not God's organization, as He cleans out what is needed to be cleaned out. I do believe that when God is the head, He can and will help out with thinking ability (brains). What makes you think He cannot? it doesn't have to come like a flash, as it did in Paul's case, or when Moses saw the burning bush. You simply cannot tell me that for the years football teams have been praying that God is accepting their prayers, or using their thinking ability to make changes. Perhaps he is too busy helping out with popcorn and dips.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1983 Feb 3, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
If Jesus sat in His heavenly Kingdon in 32AD, that means there has been no unconcsious hades at all at least for JW annointed...
Hence JWs can extend the unconscioius state to one group and offer direct access to heaven to the self proclaimed not in 32ad but in 1914ad.
Well, tell me then, since you don't believe that, do you believe that Jesus will return and the dead will arise and "meet in the clouds"? And I don't know what you mean about 32 C.E.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1984 Feb 3, 2013
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
I am afraid, your distorted 'Scripture reponses' don't straighten anyone! You are a great fighter agaisnt the TRUTH!
No, that is not true, Rudi. Rudi is explaining the truth. Now, do you think that those who believe that the church rests on Peter, who started the line of Popes will go to heaven also? If not, won't you be surprised when you get there to see the Popes and all those who believed that in heaven with you also?

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#1985 Feb 3, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that is not true, Rudi. Rudi is explaining the truth. Now, do you think that those who believe that the church rests on Peter, who started the line of Popes will go to heaven also? If not, won't you be surprised when you get there to see the Popes and all those who believed that in heaven with you also?
ihv dont know about 32 but i do know this;.. peter was only a pebble not a rock

JESUS said upon this rock.. JESUS IS CALLED THE ROCK..
will

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#1986 Feb 3, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
Yes I know about angel materializing and then by your own words these must cease to exist totally, leave their form somewhere else and build a totally new organic form with nothing of themselves put into the form. Angels also put their spirit form in the closet for safe keeping. Seriously David?
Hi Angelfire

My comments:

The above quote is a typical “STRAWMAN” without scriptural support for your assertions. Show where I ever said that the Angels in Genesis 6:1-4; 19:1-3(NAB)(cited below) had put their Spiritual form somewhere else, such as in a closet while they took on Human form or had ceased to exist. The answer is that I did NOT! With God all things are possible –- the Bible tells us what God has,in fact, done. The scriptures make it abundantly clear that God had given the Angels the ability to materialize and dematerialize. I argued in my posts that Angels(who are Spirits) had materialized in the past in human form (i) As representatives of YHWH where these representatives had socialized along with dining with humans and (ii) Another group of Angels had materialized on Earth prior to the Flood where they had taken Wives and fathered Children. The Bible is crystal clear on these issues as the scriptures below attest to. Angels had in the past possessed the inherent ability to materialize and then return to their Spirit form. This is what the Angels during Noah’s time did which, through their disobedience were put in Prison. They were in Prison when Jesus preached to them after his resurrection as noted at 1 Peter 1:18-20 below:

“1 Peter3:18-20(NAB)18 For Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit.19 In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison, 20 who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.”

Genesis 6:1-4(NAB)1When men began to multiply on earth and daughters were born to them,2the sons of heaven saw how beautiful the daughters of man were, and so they took for their wives as of them as they chose.3 Then the LORD said: "My spirit shall not remain in man forever, since he is but flesh. His days shall comprise one hundred and twenty years."4 At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth (as well as later), after the sons of heaven had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown.

Genesis 19:1-3(NAB) The two angels reached Sodom in the evening, as Lot was sitting at the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he got up to greet them; and bowing down with his face to the ground,2 he said, "Please, gentlemen, come aside into your servant's house for the night, and bathe your feet; you can get up early to continue your journey." But they replied, "No, we shall pass the night in the town square." 3He urged them so strongly, however, that they turned aside to his place and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking cakes without leaven, and they dined.

(2) I should point out that 1 Peter 3:18-20 says Christ was "Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit" sure seems to indicate that Christ was resurrected in "Spirit" form. not "Human" Any comment?

Anyway, got to go

All the Best

Dave
Rudi

Falkirk, UK

#1987 Feb 4, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that is not true, Rudi. Rudi is explaining the truth. Now, do you think that those who believe that the church rests on Peter, who started the line of Popes will go to heaven also? If not, won't you be surprised when you get there to see the Popes and all those who believed that in heaven with you also?
Miseracord, I know one thing and one thing only, that is: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20, KJV)

Boni's explanation of the Scriptures is not according 'To the law and to the testimony', therefore there is no light in him.

The TRUE church of Jesus Christ is founded not on Peter but on THE ROCK Jesus Christ. Before God is no sin big enough not to be forgiven. If any of those Popes repented in the very last moment of his life and acknoledged Jesus as his ONLY Saviour, like the thief on the cross, then, yes, he will be in heaven. However, if you and anyone else, don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord God and ONLY Saviour, then, I am afraid, you are lost. These are not my words, but the Word of God against which you resiliently fight.
Lannymac

Opelousas, LA

#1988 Feb 4, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
May I jump in with this?
Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow, you will produce food to eat until you return to the ground, because you were taken from it. You are dust, and you will return to dust."
Just as Man was nothing until God animated Adam in Genesis 2:7, so Man becomes nothing when Adam died.
Apostle Paul teaches otherwise, and before the WTS entered into even blacker darkness, they also taught otherwise.

How else could your founding fathers believe and teach that they would continue to direct the organization after death, if they would be just dirt and nothing else.

It's obviously, they understood Paul's crystal clear revelation, but new leaders more vile and even more susceptible to demon influence elected to snatch even that little morsel of truth from the mouths of JWs.

How sad to be a JW starved for truth, when all one has to do is eat freely of the Bread of Life and be full beyond measure.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#1989 Feb 4, 2013
Its alot like our elected officials, its okay for the common folk, as long as they dont have to live by the same rules.

Did the GB vote themselves IMMEDIATE heavenly life?

What about the folks? Nah! "Let them eat cake"
fds

Neath, UK

#1990 Feb 4, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you this: when the Israelites were led in the wilderness by Moses as Jehovah's means of communicating in part with that group, do you think Jehovah led them? Either in part, or 100% of the time?
<quoted text>
I can, and find it an apt comparison upon occasion.
<quoted text>
If he did, that does not mean that this is not God's organization, as He cleans out what is needed to be cleaned out. I do believe that when God is the head, He can and will help out with thinking ability (brains). What makes you think He cannot? it doesn't have to come like a flash, as it did in Paul's case, or when Moses saw the burning bush. You simply cannot tell me that for the years football teams have been praying that God is accepting their prayers, or using their thinking ability to make changes. Perhaps he is too busy helping out with popcorn and dips.
Hi
1] Jehovah led them 100%, but he did not lead them into idolitary, this was their own doing and Jehovah called it "SIN" and he punished them with death and wars. JWs say "interpretations belong to God" I agree with that, so who do you blame for watchtower interpretations that always mess up. If you say God you lie and if you say the "Spirit directed FDS Gov Body", then they are "Running ahead of Jehovah, and not waiting on him,they are showing a spirit of presumptiousness" that is Sin. It shows Jehovah is not with them when they sin and for as long as they continue in that sin, infact God will deal with the ORG like He delt with his "means of communication, Moses" who he did not allow to enter the promise land.
2] you cannot re-write written history, the revelation book and rtherford said what they said, you dont have the authority to make revisions, has Jehovah personally told you that what was written is wrong? Lets not forget, Jesus in 1919 chose the Org on the basis of what Russell taught as the truth, infact the irony is that Jesus chose the Org even though they were teaching that Jesus had returned in 1874 and had already chosen russell as his Laodicean minister in 1879. The fact is the ORG and its Members are as much in sin as any other denomination member in error.
Lannymac

Opelousas, LA

#1991 Feb 4, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact, when he appeared to Saul of Damascus, his appearance was unlike his other appearances to his disciples after his resurrection. He was so glorious in light, that it blinded Saul temporarily.
So you're saying that Paul saw what Peter, James, and John saw when Christ's body was gloriously transfigured on the mount, right?

If you're not saying that, then please tell me, where Christ's physical body was during the transfiguration.

If it was not His actual face and clothing that turned to light that was as bright as the sun, then whose did?
AngelFire

Australia

#1992 Feb 4, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, tell me then, since you don't believe that, do you believe that Jesus will return and the dead will arise and "meet in the clouds"? And I don't know what you mean about 32 C.E.
The JW anointed, according to them, meet the Jesus in the clouds as soon as they die. Therefore JWs MUST have scriptures that support this in some of their twisted interpretations. The JWs have to twist scriptures and turn Revelations Jewish tribes into JWs to pretend otherwise.

You do know that JWs do not accept Jesus words that He went into His kingdom on His ascension in 32AD. JWs say this did not happen until 1914, when their anointed started going straight to heaven. Do you get that?

JWs say Jesus did not establish anything when He came to earth and that he did not start his 'congregation'. IF JWs accepted this like every other Christian then these so called anointed of yours would have been going to heaven since around 32AD, since Jesus died and went to heaven, instead of 1914.

So NOT accepting the words of Jesus that his congregation was started then is the lie that JWs base their preaching on. JWs deny Jesus was saying the apostles were 'this generation' some of which would not see death. This is another twisted lie, of self serving rhetoric based on spiritistic visions that Russel had.

In other words, JWs themselves preach that those that die that are acceptable to God have been going to heaven since Jesus established his kingdom. JWs agree with me, but have slandered and twisted the word of God and Jesus own words and have been changing the meaning of 'this generation' ever since it was twisted with Russel initially.

The above is not hard to follow for anyone with average intelligence.

So we are now past the devisive trickery that JWs started with Russel. Now the issue is whom are these people that get to go straight to heaven. JWs from their spiritistic roots say they have the only ones that go to heaven, these are the self professed anointed that claim the heavenly calling that no other dedicated witness from the great crowd is entitled to. These others have to wait till after this armaggedon then another 1000 years on earth.

Hence JWs themselves say since the Jesus sat on his throne in heaven (32AD OR 1914AD), there have been people fit to go straight to heaven and those that don't. Their being conscious or not is another matter.

I do not believe that some new sect with spiritistic roots that makes up its own excessive commandments to smite other Christians, has been given the keys to anything.

JWs make up excesses, regardless of the fact that Jesus was prepared to save lives inluding animals, on the Sabbath a very strict law. Jesus would not say refuse a blood transfusion because God wanted the blood of dead animals drained and that blood was sacred. This invented commandment reminds me of the pharasees and saducees that Jesus rebuked for the excessive chains they tied the people in.

So JWs invent their own excesses in blood, 5 meetings a week, preaching door to door, twisting scriptures means one has the truth that only their anointed can see, have a prophet that was into spiritism and gave false dates, and because of this they are special. I say that is a false belief.
AngelFire

Australia

#1993 Feb 4, 2013
Lannymac wrote:
<quoted text>So you're saying that Paul saw what Peter, James, and John saw when Christ's body was gloriously transfigured on the mount, right?
If you're not saying that, then please tell me, where Christ's physical body was during the transfiguration.
If it was not His actual face and clothing that turned to light that was as bright as the sun, then whose did?
I think quote mining and adding prefered context is a JW skill.

Lets debate in endless debate and forget the numerous scriptures that suggest where ever Jesus body was, Jesus was concsious and not created at least 3 times or more, by God. Initially in heaven, again to come to earth, again to go to Hades and speak to the spirits in prison and then other times that he appeared to the apostles that did not recognize him and therefore could see him and were not blinded.

When JWs say 'they' are to be resurrected, what do they mean? As if cloning my cat or repottering a broken bowl is actually the same cat or bowl. It is only to a game master, that does not see the individual as a person or special creation but just an object piece in a game.

JWs are working hard for a game master they call God, that is going to make new copies of them to play with. That is not a big deal.
Lannymac

Opelousas, LA

#1994 Feb 4, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
Many people believe (I do not) that Jesus will physically return in person, to be seen, to this earth. In fact, they believe he will return in person, to be seen by all throughout the earth somehow miraculously in person, in Israel. And they quote various scriptures supporting this viewpoint.
As far as Hebrews 9:27 goes, that is true. Man is destined to die once, then face judgment. If a man dies the SECOND DEATH (i.e., the Lake of Fire) then that decision is final with no resurrection.
Yeah right, how foolish to think Almighty God would know who doesn't deserve eternal life in the case of some, but for others a test is required.

As if to imply that an Omniscient God would need to see a report card before knowing if someone will do well or bad on some jive test.

Lol...I take it, the WTS god knows beforehand how people will perform on an algebra test, but not a salavation test.

Oh how you ignorant people love and live to profane God's holy name.

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#1996 Feb 4, 2013
Dave47 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Angelfire
My comments: to SNIP SNIPAll the Best
Dave
IHV i kinda was thinking you would be gone for a few days till the hype of the superbowl was over.. WE WONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN YOU LOSNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN ROFL

but leave it to louisiana to mess something up ..like forgetting to pay the utility bill hehe
will

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#1997 Feb 4, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
<quoted text>
I think quote mining and adding prefered context is a JW skill.
Lets debate in endless debate and forget the numerous scriptures that suggest where ever Jesus body was, Jesus was concsious and not created at least 3 times or more, by God. Initially in heaven, again to come to earth, again to go to Hades and speak to the spirits in prison and then other times that he appeared to the apostles that did not recognize him and therefore could see him and were not blinded.
When JWs say 'they' are to be resurrected, what do they mean? As if cloning my cat or repottering a broken bowl is actually the same cat or bowl. It is only to a game master, that does not see the individual as a person or special creation but just an object piece in a game.
JWs are working hard for a game master they call God, that is going to make new copies of them to play with. That is not a big deal.
ihv there are two subjects the jws do not want to discuss.. first is the resurrection.. the next is salvation

ohh and discussing the trinity by using the wt's own book
will

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#1998 Feb 4, 2013
Lannymac wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah right, how foolish to think Almighty God would know who doesn't deserve eternal life in the case of some, but for others a test is required.
As if to imply that an Omniscient God would need to see a report card before knowing if someone will do well or bad on some jive test.
Lol...I take it, the WTS god knows beforehand how people will perform on an algebra test, but not a salavation test.
Oh how you ignorant people love and live to profane God's holy name.
ihv some years ago jws were out front of a salvation army store peddling their goods.. the employees could do nothing about it.. the law said it was legal

so we made it our business to be there every wed.. i had several talks with these three women.. the last time i questioned thim on salvation.. i asked what would happened if they spent the reast of their lives selling wt material and one day stood before god and he told them YOU ARE SHORT SELLING ONE BIBLE..

they never showed up there after that
will

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1999 Feb 4, 2013
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Miseracord, I know one thing and one thing only, that is: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20, KJV)
Boni's explanation of the Scriptures is not according 'To the law and to the testimony', therefore there is no light in him.
The TRUE church of Jesus Christ is founded not on Peter but on THE ROCK Jesus Christ. Before God is no sin big enough not to be forgiven. If any of those Popes repented in the very last moment of his life and acknoledged Jesus as his ONLY Saviour, like the thief on the cross, then, yes, he will be in heaven. However, if you and anyone else, don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord God and ONLY Saviour, then, I am afraid, you are lost. These are not my words, but the Word of God against which you resiliently fight.
Rudi, Boni is telling the truth about the law and the testimony to it. It is recorded at Luke 24: He now said to them:“These are my words which I spoke to YOU while I was yet with you, that all the things written in the law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms about me must be fulfilled.” Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures.

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