why cant jws answer simple questions?
Rudi

Falkirk, UK

#1937 Feb 3, 2013
Dave47 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Angelfire
Just two short comments.
(1)I assume from your statement that you are talking about where Jesus appeared to his Disciples after his resurrection. The answer is No! Jesus did not have to be recreated --- he had already become a “Spirit" after his resurrection and had the ability to materialize. Angels( who are spirits) are noted to have on several occasions materialized and acted as YHWH’s Representative-- see the example in Genesis 19:3(NAB)“He urged them so strongly, however, that they turned aside to his place and entered his house. He prepared a banquet for them, baking unleavened bread, and they dined.” As can be plainly be seen they had materialized and were in human form. Angels before the Flood materialized on Earth and took wives where they produced children see Genesis 6:4(NAB)“The Nephilim appeared on earth in those days, as well as later,* after the sons of God had intercourse with the daughters of human beings, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown." It should be noted that YHWH had, because of this misbehaviour, by some Angels, forbidden other Angels to materialize except when acting as a direct representative of his. These Angels were the ones whom Jesus, after his resurrection, met with in prison. Jesus had the same ability to materialize as Angels and simply exercised it, eating along with his Disciples just like those times mentioned in the Old Testament. See Genesis 19:3 above.
(2)From your above comment it is obvious that you do not understand that “spirit , breath of life, life-breath” means. The meaning is easy--- Humans need to breathe to live. If Humans do not breathe they will die very quickly and that is why the idiomatic expressions such as “he took his last breath” meant that he had died. This was how ancient people understood life – the expression simply meant that when one expired the ”life force” that sustained him went back to the one who gave it “God”; not that some actual air went back. If humans can operate from a Computer with minimal power a robot on Mars then surely the Creator(whom all things are possible) can use his power to give life or remove life from Humans. As we learn more about the Universe, and what appears more and more as “fine tuning” of the Universe it seems strange to me that I would hear arguments from Christians questioning the power of God, such as been the “Life Force” within the Universe.
Anyway, I will be unavailable for at least a day probably two, but I will respond to your questions and comments.
All the Best
Dave
That's wrong Dave, the Scriptures tell us that Jesus resurreected bodily not in a spirit form.

“Delivering the Gospel”

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#1938 Feb 3, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
Right Religion:
HOW CAN A PERSON KNOW WHICH RELIGION IS RIGHT?
(1) On what are its teachings based? Are they from God, or are they largely from men?(2 Tim. 3:16; Mark 7:7)
Good questions,you decide.

http://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-...

“Delivering the Gospel”

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#1939 Feb 3, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks.
<quoted text>
He did put out the fires of hellfire which gripped people with fear along with other teachings that gave them mistaken ideas about what the Bible said about things commonly taught and taken for granted in the churches then; perhaps even today.

Yes, he said other things too which are discarded and no longer believed or were modified when additional data were considered.
Satan also knew scripture enough to twist them into half-truth.We've had the bible for a long time so we can identify error,exactly what is your "additional data?"

“Delivering the Gospel”

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#1940 Feb 3, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks.
<quoted text>
I don't know him. I only know of him. People at his time did know and love him. I believe they called him that posthumously.
I will say this. He was on his way to being a millionaire with his father when he sold his interests in the family's clothing store business in order to pursue the hardship in publishing the Good News as he knew it to as many people as possible. He did put out the fires of hellfire which gripped people with fear along with other teachings that gave them mistaken ideas about what the Bible said about things commonly taught and taken for granted in the churches then; perhaps even today. Russell said things back then which shook the churches and continues to be felt. In fact, isn't it true that most churches now have softened their fire-and-brimstone views of hellfire?
I guess a lot of people were very grateful to him for that and other things.
Yes, he said other things too which are discarded and no longer believed or were modified when additional data were considered. Some wanted to persist with those particular teachings and so formed their own churches.
Now, I hope you won't do what was done to John Wycliffe where his bones were disinterred and burned by a kangaroo court led by the Roman Catholic authorities - symbolically speaking, of course.
Let the man rest in peace.
:)
Do you believe that Charles Russell was the Laodicean Messenger?

Since: Sep 08

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#1941 Feb 3, 2013
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv what if i can use only the wt books and their own perverted bible to prove how wrong they are on the subject of the resurrecion PARTICULARLY OF JESUS?
quoting bibles only when they agree with you is not what i would care to call fair.. scholars translate the bibles and you pick the single verse they got right? well you dont THE SOCIETY DID THAT and you parrot them
will
Oh I'm sure you'll vector into something that has NOTHING TO DO with Ec 9:6 ... what I answered you on and you didn't like using a modern day Bible translation.

:)

“Delivering the Gospel”

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#1942 Feb 3, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>No, I believe that God is correct that Man was taken from dust and to dust Man returns. Waiting the resurrection.
:)
Who are these people that are with Jesus now?

1 Thess.4:14
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God WILL BRING WITH HIM those who sleep in Jesus.

Since: Sep 08

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#1943 Feb 3, 2013
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv actually i was pulling for the saints.. that went south.. chi bears? they lost the edge... so after that it was who was the least fav on my list..
i lost most of them lol.. but pulled at the last for the ravens.. and GAG pulled for the 49ers.. now i will be pulling really hard for the ravens..
any team from the west coast sucks hehe
will
LOL

Now that it is down to them, I think it would be cool if the 49ers do to the Ravens what the Ravens did to NY Giants back in 2001.

Anyway, both teams won this contest before - just not against each other. Let's see who wants it the most.

HA HA
Rudi

Falkirk, UK

#1944 Feb 3, 2013
"Known Fact wrote:

Right Religion:
HOW CAN A PERSON KNOW WHICH RELIGION IS RIGHT?
(1) On what are its teachings based? Are they from God, or are they largely from men?(2 Tim. 3:16; Mark 7:7)"

True religion is based on the Scriptures and on the Scriptures ONLY not on doctrine of man; also, Scriptures interpret themselves.

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." (John 5:39, KJV)

In Revealation 12:17 and 14:12 we read:

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Rev. 12:17, KJV)

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." (Rev. 14:12, KJV)

and Jesus said:

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15, KJV)

The scriptures tell us,

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isa. 8:20, KJV)

Since: Sep 08

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#1945 Feb 3, 2013
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv this is exactly my point on the resurrection.. i posted some of it on one of these boards we are on..
according to the wt when you die YOU ARE GONE. all of you .. everything.. because your personality is in the brain and blood it too is destroyed with time
but not to worry.. god kept a copy of your personality in his mind... one day at what the wt calls a resurrection, god is going to form a body that looks like you and put a copy of this personality into it..
it will look like you , act and talk like you.. BUT THERE IS NOTHING OF YOU THAT WAS RAISED...
sounds more like a cloning to me.. the wt gave a good example of this and i quoted it direct from their book
will
No. According to the WT when you die you are in Jehovah's memory.

One hydrogen molocule is just like any other, Will. Same for carbon, oxygen, calcium, and so on down the Periodic Table. I don't have a problem God resurrecting me with the body I looked like but with different atoms and molocules I had at death.

I heard said that every seven years on average most of the molecular material in our bodies now has been replaced. So every drop of water in our body now does not have the same atoms you had in all those drops of water of seven years ago. Does it make one bit of molecular difference? NO! H2O is still H2O.

If you "watered" your rose bush one summer's evening a year ago, that rose bush may still have some of that H2O molecules of yours still in its tissues while you replaced that H2O with H2O which used to be in an orange fruit picked from Florida.

Are you still Will? Yes you are.

Jesus has shown that resurrection can come from a dead body that has been dead for several days. But in that same chapter Jesus assured that resurrection can come even if the dead body is no longer available.

:)

“Delivering the Gospel”

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#1946 Feb 3, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
That's right. A force from Him that isn't self-sentient. To that I agree.
If you wish to say that God is a spirit who is holy, that describes something about Him. The thing is, we don't have an actual name for his "force". It is lumped under the noun "spirit" which is also use to describe the body of spirit beings as well to describe the spirit realm they exist in. That one word "spirit" is used to label a lot things.
In most cases unclean spirits are not named,but are described by their particular CHARACTER,such as UNCLEAN spirit or WICKED spirit.

Here we have spirits that can OBEY.

Mark 1:27
27 Then they were all amazed, so that they questioned among themselves, saying,“What is this? What new doctrine is this? For with authority He commands even the unclean spirits, and THEY OBEY Him.”

Here we have spirits TALKING.

Mark 3:11
11 And the unclean spirits, whenever they saw Him, fell down before Him and cried out, SAYING,“You are the Son of God.”

Here we have TALKING spirits that INDWELLED a person.

Acts 8:7
For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed.

Does the FACT that most unclean spirits are not named in scripture mean that they are not persons?

By contrast,doesn't it make sense that the "HOLY" Spirit is intended as a DESCRIPTION of character an NOT as a proof of nonpersonality?

Since: Sep 08

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#1947 Feb 3, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
<quoted text>
You forget that authority was given to the the disciples to bind in heaven. If anyone can claim that right, it would be the Cathoic Church and no one has to like it.
That isn't a guarantee, AF. Remember that the promise was first to the nation of Israel. But when the natural branches didn't produce fruit, God grafted branches from non-Israelite nations that did produce Kingdom fruitage.
AngelFire wrote:
<quoted text>
It is fine for one to pray for another. Once it is realized that these people are in heaven with God and cleaner than mankind there is nothing in the bible that forbids us to ask these to pray to God for us still. That is not adoration for Mary or saints, nor thinking a statue is a golden calf that is bowed down to. Catholics are also taught that praying to saints should not be the primary focus of prayer that should evoke Jesus and God.
The New Testament doesn't show that Mary nor Jesus' brothers had any influence on Jesus when Jesus was alive on earth. Nor were they used in any capacity to short-cut or enhance prayers.

In the book of James, those who are spiritually sick can call on elders in the church to pray for such ones. But I have not seen anything in the New Testament that says that we should pray to dead elders to be our mediators to God.

“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

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#1949 Feb 3, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
We sorrow not for him who has gone, because WE KNOW he HAS ENTERED into his everlasting joy. For him we rejoice; but we sorrow for ourselves. Yet trusting in the Lord we will continue to fight for the good fight of faith.
***
How did they know that Charles Taze Russell was SAVED?Why is it that they about him and you don't know about yourself?

Since: Sep 08

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#1950 Feb 3, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
To Dave
Dave, I need you to clarify your most used text in Ecclesiasties 'the dead are conscious of nothing' and what JWs say about the spirit that goes back to God, what of Jesus talking to spirits in the boosom of Abraham?
Come on now. If you really want to witness on line here is your big chance.
I need you to clarify why only the JW annointed get to go straight to heaven, given JWs are a shallow rooted faith like many others.eg Mormons. Where do JWs get this great authority and favour from?
The other thing I want to clarify is all the nonsense preached about Babylon the whore that you insinuate is Catholicism and the Vatican. The Vatican is not built on seven mountains at all and Jerusalem/Isreal is constantly being called the whore. The Catholic Church/pope/Christianity, had nothing to do with the killing of the prophets or the disciples.
However I might add that JWs are doing a good job of trying to 'slay' the true Church of God. If it teaches false doctrine it is the religious leaders that will pay, not me. Being faithful through adversity is admired by God. Accepting that the Church also seeks clarity and has aurhority is being faithful to the one church Jesus started.
I am seriously waiting for Dave or any true JW to demonstrate there is no basis to JW authority nor JW annointed being the only ones that go to heaven. This appears to be what is happening as no JW can back themselves scripturally as claimed.
May I butt in?

You say, "'slay' the true Church of God"?

It appears to any student of history that the Catholic Church has contributed to much "slaying" of people within its doors, outside of its doors, when she proselytized near and far with the sword, when she terrorized with inquisitions, when she persecuted people who wanted read the Bible and make it available to the common folk, when she burned people that dared to disagree with her, when she crusaded with "holy wars", and when she did nothing to stop holocausts, massacres, and wars done at her doorstep.

I warned you not to stand too high on that pedestal, AF.

Since: Sep 08

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#1951 Feb 3, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear forum,
My questions are not hard. Dave, you should have been easily able to post a few scriptures that show how the JW annointed are the special ones, why the theif was not with Jesus in paradise/Abrahamsboosom that day in Hades, why the spirit rises to heaven etc. I am surprised that if you, then no other JW has given it a good shot.
The good news is that many can get to heaven in the twinkling of an eye if they just accept Jesus and die in some sort of reasonable state of spirituality. That is what Jesus died for and his prayer to save the majority has been granted.
You just don't get it, AF.

Since: Sep 08

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#1953 Feb 3, 2013
Christian Trucker wrote:
<quoted text>You really have a hard time answering SIMPLE questions,don't you?
Oh I answer simple questions quite well. Why can't you process my simple answers? Like those contained in my rebuttal which you ignored?
Christian Trucker wrote:
<quoted text>

Please read these scriptures and tell me who is speaking?
Acts 8:29
29 Then the Spirit SAID TO Philip,“Go near and overtake this chariot.”
Acts 10:19
19 While Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit SAID to him,“Behold, three men are seeking you
Acts 13:2
2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit SAID,“Now separate to "ME" Barnabas and Saul for the work to which "I" have called them.”
I can tell you who is NOT speaking.

Acts 8:29
29 Then the [the third person of the Trinity] SAID TO Philip,“Go near and overtake this chariot.”

Acts 10:19
19 While Peter thought about the vision,[the third person of the Trinity] SAID to him,“Behold, three men are seeking you

Acts 13:2
2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted,[the third person of the Trinity] SAID,“Now separate to "ME" Barnabas and Saul for the work to which "I" have called them.”
Christian Trucker wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would a force use personal pronouns "Me" and "I" in reference to himself?
It is not unusual in the Scriptures for something that is not actually a person to be personalized or personified.

Wisdom is personified at Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:35, where it is depicted as having "deeds" or "children". The apostle Paul personalized sin and death and also undeserved kindness as "kings".(Ro 5:14, 17, 21; 6:12) He speaks of sin as "seizing the opportunity",'springing to life'(Ro 7:8-11) Yet it is obvious that Paul did not mean that sin was actually a person.

Personification does not prove personality -- as I indicted in my rebuttal last week which you evidently had trouble with.

:)

Since: Sep 08

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#1954 Feb 3, 2013
Christian Trucker wrote:
<quoted text>LOL. How does one "INSULT" a impersonal force?
By insulting the Owner of that force.

The same way someone bites the hand that feeds one -- whether literally or not.

:)

Since: Sep 08

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#1955 Feb 3, 2013
Christian Trucker wrote:
<quoted text>Can you find me some scripture where the scriptures have a mind,emotions,testifies,interc edes (prays) for believers too?
How about dealing with all that I already showed you instead of ignoring all that I already showed you?

What would more do for you except that you'll demand ever more when you are convinced by so little?

:)

“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

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#1956 Feb 3, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
How about dealing with all that I already showed you instead of ignoring all that I already showed you?
What would more do for you except that you'll demand ever more when you are convinced by so little?
:)
I have and you were sucessful in twisting them,so I want to see how you can twist the scripture where the scriptures have a mind,emotions,testifies,interc edes (prays) for believers.

“Delivering the Gospel”

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#1957 Feb 3, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
By insulting the Owner of that force.
The same way someone bites the hand that feeds one -- whether literally or not.
:)
You cannot "INSULT" a impersonal force unless that force is God.

“Delivering the Gospel”

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#1958 Feb 3, 2013
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv i think i just grieved my electricty cause it blew out a light bulb
Now that's funny!

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