why cant jws answer simple questions?

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#2360 Feb 13, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it doesn't? What guide? The guide you decide? And why don't you belong to a Baptist church? None meets up with your standards of how the Bible SHOULD BE INTERPRETED?
<quoted text>
The magazines are beautiful. What you say is complete bunk and misinterpretation. Many will believe you, perhaps, but that does not make you right. In fact, you are making a good case for the broad road.
ih beautiful? they are a waste of beautiful trees.. but they aint close to beautiful.. but then i am sure ou would make them the highlight of your house and hide the bible.

a question here.. what do you think aobut the subliminal demonic pictures in the books and mags? anyone ever show that to you?
will
AngelFire

Australia

#2361 Feb 13, 2013
fds wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi
The Great crowd doctrine you mention actually down grades them on two fronts
1] The great crowd originally started off as "The Great Company Class" which was one of Russells doctrines, They were second class christians who were not quite as spiritually minded [More carnal- thats true] as the Ones who form the bride class.
They later under Rutherford became the "Great Crowd" I wonder how they feel about being described as a lesser spiritual Class.
2] The other point being that the "Great Company Class" were also a Class who wolud spend eternity in the Heavenly realm.
Now they only spend time on earth never to mix or meet the anointed heavenly class.
So the great crowd class of Rutherfords designs is a re-engineering and down grading of the Russell Great Company doctrine
But you raise some good points
Jehovah's Witnesses believed they went to heaven after death. They believed they were part of the 'little flock'. Why did the Watchtower need to make changes in the 1930's?

Jehovah's Witnesses believe only a 'little flock' or 144,000 people go to heaven. According to Bill Cetnar, by the 1930's the Watchtower organization grew and there was no more room left in heaven for new Jehovah's Witnesses.

In Bill Cetnar's testimony, the doctrine of the 'great crowd' was invented in the 1930's because the membership of Jehovah's Witnesses had grown substantially. Since they believe only 144000 go to heaven, some Jehovah's Witnesses couldn't go.

So YES, the JWs had to down grade the great crowd to commoners basically, because the end did not come, they kept growing and got over numbers for their interpretation of this complete group... 144,000.
AngelFire

Australia

#2362 Feb 13, 2013
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv all this right here is BULL SHIT and you know it.. i proved to readers that the wt misled readers by translating the same word different ONLY when applied to JESUS.. you and you bogus friends just couldnt grasp that the wt might pull some crap like this so you made excuses for them .. nothing i said is false and i damn well can prove it all... but thn i guess you are so worried about the resurrection you will again grasp at straws
will
<quoted text>
ihv its no use to try to argue with an idiot.. you have never taken a complete look at any major doctrine.. you are satisfied with the crap you were brainwashed with..
a complete study of any subject will prove the wt is faooloing the leading of satan.. even to the pictures in their books..
and god does forgive stupid doctrines just as he forgives sins.. but you have to use the right connection
will
These JWs say WE misinterpret, but then can never show how we misinterpret.

I have spoken to JWs before about Peter talking to the people and calling them all priests, where they get their authority from, what makes them so special?????. All we ever get is that we misrepresent when we are using the scriptures as they are, without the need for the reasonings of man presented in a witness publication.

"You, however, are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people he claims for his own to proclaim the glorious works of the One who called you from darkness into his marvelous light" (I Peter 2:9).

None of them will take anything up. Off they run, hands waving in the air.....
FindingTruth

Everett, WA

#2363 Feb 13, 2013
Omg this board is still active after all this time.......
AngelFire

Australia

#2364 Feb 13, 2013
FindingTruth wrote:
Omg this board is still active after all this time.......
Yep and JWs are still chasing their tales and looking to snare the desperately gullible.
AngelFire

Australia

#2365 Feb 14, 2013
In the following 1918 Watchtower article the United States is praised and Bible Students were requested to pray for the Americans to be successful in the war against Germany.

"In accordance with the resolution of Congress of April 2nd, and with the proclamation of the president of the United States of May 11, it is suggested that the Lord's people everywhere make May 30th a day of prayer and supplication. God was graciously pleased to cause the nation to be formed and to grow under the most favorable conditions in the world for the preservation of liberty, civil and religious."

AND....

"Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - "Christmas day."" Zion's Watch Tower 1904 Dec 1 p.364

AND....

"Pardon me for intruding on your precious time, but I just can't help letting you know how much I appreciate the phonograph which came to me on the morning after the 8th, which was my 80th birthday. It was indeed a birthday gift from Jehovah, to be used in proclaiming his name. May grace and strength be given me to do with my might what my hands find to do." Watchtower 1940 Jan 1 p.16

INSTEAD OF LOOKING TO THE SCRIPTURES.....

Romans 14:5-6 advises not to judge others and their celebrations:

"One indeed judges a day above another; and another one judges every day alike, Let each one be fully assured in his own mind. The one minding the day, he minds it to the Lord. And the one not minding the day, he does not mind it to the Lord. The one eating, he eats to the Lord; for he give thanks to God. And the one not eating, he does not eat to the Lord, and gives thanks to God."

JWs invent their own scripture and then use it to try to condemn the rest of Christianity in order to falsely glorify themselves.

JWs are built on spiritism and false prophecy. The spirit of satans hatred for Gods people has never left the organization.
AngelFire

Australia

#2366 Feb 14, 2013
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv all this right here is BULL SHIT and you know it.. i proved to readers that the wt misled readers by translating the same word different ONLY when applied to JESUS.. you and you bogus friends just couldnt grasp that the wt might pull some crap like this so you made excuses for them .. nothing i said is false and i damn well can prove it all... but thn i guess you are so worried about the resurrection you will again grasp at straws
will
<quoted text>
ihv its no use to try to argue with an idiot.. you have never taken a complete look at any major doctrine.. you are satisfied with the crap you were brainwashed with..
a complete study of any subject will prove the wt is faooloing the leading of satan.. even to the pictures in their books..
and god does forgive stupid doctrines just as he forgives sins.. but you have to use the right connection
will
BS is an appropriate word for the rhetoric JW spin. They used to celebrate birthdays and Christmas and this was after their organization had been supposedly cleansed.

All JWs were anointed until they got too big and then the 'great crowd' was suddenly invented.

There is no special insight given to these people.

I'd say BS, although crude, is an apt description of the JWs preaching invention of scriptural doctrine.

The JWs hate Christendom just like satan does, and the spirit of satan has truly never left them.
fds

Llanelli, UK

#2367 Feb 14, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
In the following 1918 Watchtower article the United States is praised and Bible Students were requested to pray for the Americans to be successful in the war against Germany.
"In accordance with the resolution of Congress of April 2nd, and with the proclamation of the president of the United States of May 11, it is suggested that the Lord's people everywhere make May 30th a day of prayer and supplication. God was graciously pleased to cause the nation to be formed and to grow under the most favorable conditions in the world for the preservation of liberty, civil and religious."
AND....
"Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - "Christmas day."" Zion's Watch Tower 1904 Dec 1 p.364
AND....
"Pardon me for intruding on your precious time, but I just can't help letting you know how much I appreciate the phonograph which came to me on the morning after the 8th, which was my 80th birthday. It was indeed a birthday gift from Jehovah, to be used in proclaiming his name. May grace and strength be given me to do with my might what my hands find to do." Watchtower 1940 Jan 1 p.16
INSTEAD OF LOOKING TO THE SCRIPTURES.....
Romans 14:5-6 advises not to judge others and their celebrations:
"One indeed judges a day above another; and another one judges every day alike, Let each one be fully assured in his own mind. The one minding the day, he minds it to the Lord. And the one not minding the day, he does not mind it to the Lord. The one eating, he eats to the Lord; for he give thanks to God. And the one not eating, he does not eat to the Lord, and gives thanks to God."
JWs invent their own scripture and then use it to try to condemn the rest of Christianity in order to falsely glorify themselves.
JWs are built on spiritism and false prophecy. The spirit of satans hatred for Gods people has never left the organization.
Hi
I can only applaud you again on your research - and not like the Watchtower - when you give quotes You give the whole source reference.

Many thanks
fds

Llanelli, UK

#2368 Feb 14, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>Some things never change, Prime. How does your church, if you belong to one, define hell? And what happens in hell? Also, what do you believe about the Ghost? Holy, that is. Has it changed over the years about hell(fire), what happens to the dead, and what is the difference between Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit?
Hi
The JWs are a breakaway religion from the bible students. Of course they never get things wrong do they !! Always so sure that they preach "Meat in due season" as God's one true channel of communication. So You talk about Hell, well lets talk !! The people of Sodom will get a resurrection, will not, will, will not,?
Its ok to have blood fractions, its not, it is, its not, it is ??

Ho Yes What happens to the dead.
Adam and eve will be reurrected, will not. Also as in adam all die so IN christ ALL will be made alive, He purchased mankind, No unless you become a JW you will not get through Armageddon, So you do away with the ransom for all flagship doctrine.
Your generations doctrine farce, your FDS doctrine farce and all your prophetic flops and after all this is put before you you still berate other denominations. Dont forget the big daddy of them all - the 1925 millions campaign and the resurrection of Abraham isaac and jacob and beth sarin - well MIseracord.
AngelFire

Australia

#2369 Feb 14, 2013
fds wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi
The JWs are a breakaway religion from the bible students. Of course they never get things wrong do they !! Always so sure that they preach "Meat in due season" as God's one true channel of communication. So You talk about Hell, well lets talk !! The people of Sodom will get a resurrection, will not, will, will not,?
Its ok to have blood fractions, its not, it is, its not, it is ??
Ho Yes What happens to the dead.
Adam and eve will be reurrected, will not. Also as in adam all die so IN christ ALL will be made alive, He purchased mankind, No unless you become a JW you will not get through Armageddon, So you do away with the ransom for all flagship doctrine.
Your generations doctrine farce, your FDS doctrine farce and all your prophetic flops and after all this is put before you you still berate other denominations. Dont forget the big daddy of them all - the 1925 millions campaign and the resurrection of Abraham isaac and jacob and beth sarin - well MIseracord.
In Revelations letters to the congregations, one clearly sees that those that did not follow the false teachings were applauded, not expelled. JW call this apostasy, and individual thinking and one is disfellowshipped and shunned for it.

2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14-15 Now we are giving YOU orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition YOU received from us . 14 But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. 15 And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.

2 Corinthians 2:5-8 "Now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of YOU to an extent not to be too harsh in what I say. This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary now, YOU should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him."

(Luke 10:25-37) The Jews regarded the Samaritans as apostates of the Jewish religion, yet Jesus says our love is to encompass these people as well.

There are dozens of these that suggest limiting association and simply demonstrating you do not want their company if they are going to keep on gravely sinning. JWs are true straw grabbers in trying to uphold the spirit of satan.

JWs will always quote, 2 John 10 that says not to greet the Antichrist. The Watchtower uses this single scripture to support not saying hello to a disfellowshipped person.

At Scriptures such as 1 Corinthians 5, Paul outlined limiting association with Christians that practice wrongdoing, not strict shunning.

JWs, just like satan, hate Christendom. JWs love excesses to falseley make them feel holier than thou just like the Pharasees Jesus called sons of vipers and their father the devil.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#2370 Feb 14, 2013
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv all this right here is BULL SHIT and you know it.. i proved to readers that the wt misled readers by translating the same word different ONLY when applied to JESUS.. you and you bogus friends just couldnt grasp that the wt might pull some crap like this so you made excuses for them .. nothing i said is false and i damn well can prove it all... but thn i guess you are so worried about the resurrection you will again grasp at straws
will
<quoted text>
ihv its no use to try to argue with an idiot.. you have never taken a complete look at any major doctrine.. you are satisfied with the crap you were brainwashed with..
a complete study of any subject will prove the wt is faooloing the leading of satan.. even to the pictures in their books..
and god does forgive stupid doctrines just as he forgives sins.. but you have to use the right connection
will
You are a bully. That others are bullies like you does not make you or your paramours less of a bully.
AngelFire

Australia

#2371 Feb 14, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
<quoted text>
In Revelations letters to the congregations, one clearly sees that those that did not follow the false teachings were applauded, not expelled. JW call this apostasy, and individual thinking and one is disfellowshipped and shunned for it.
2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14-15 Now we are giving YOU orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition YOU received from us . 14 But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. 15 And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.
2 Corinthians 2:5-8 "Now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of YOU to an extent not to be too harsh in what I say. This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary now, YOU should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him."
(Luke 10:25-37) The Jews regarded the Samaritans as apostates of the Jewish religion, yet Jesus says our love is to encompass these people as well.
There are dozens of these that suggest limiting association and simply demonstrating you do not want their company if they are going to keep on gravely sinning. JWs are true straw grabbers in trying to uphold the spirit of satan.
JWs will always quote, 2 John 10 that says not to greet the Antichrist. The Watchtower uses this single scripture to support not saying hello to a disfellowshipped person.
At Scriptures such as 1 Corinthians 5, Paul outlined limiting association with Christians that practice wrongdoing, not strict shunning.
JWs, just like satan, hate Christendom. JWs love excesses to falseley make them feel holier than thou just like the Pharasees Jesus called sons of vipers and their father the devil.
Miseraccord, would you like to respond to me.

What I see is a JW unable to defend their excesses in the true vain of love Christians were meant to reflect.

You should only avoid and not welcome those that continue to sin, not totally ignore them, particularly your family.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#2372 Feb 14, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
<quoted text>
Miseraccord, would you like to respond to me.
What I see is a JW unable to defend their excesses in the true vain of love Christians were meant to reflect.
You should only avoid and not welcome those that continue to sin, not totally ignore them, particularly your family.
I'm not sure what you mean by your statements, but each person must make his own decision as to how he will handle family members, and associates, such as those at work. The Bible is clear on these matters, and I'd appreciate it if you would not use bully terms when you talk to me.(Bully terms such as "a JW unable to defend their excesses," etc.) Otherwise you can be sure I will not be answering a lot of your posts, whether they reflect the truth or not.
AngelFire

Australia

#2373 Feb 14, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not sure what you mean by your statements, but each person must make his own decision as to how he will handle family members, and associates, such as those at work. The Bible is clear on these matters, and I'd appreciate it if you would not use bully terms when you talk to me.(Bully terms such as "a JW unable to defend their excesses," etc.) Otherwise you can be sure I will not be answering a lot of your posts, whether they reflect the truth or not.
We'd all appreciate it if you could actually use scripture in context to support your view.

The bible is clear about many things, that JWs are not.
AngelFire

Australia

#2374 Feb 14, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
<quoted text>
In Revelations letters to the congregations, one clearly sees that those that did not follow the false teachings were applauded, not expelled. JW call this apostasy, and individual thinking and one is disfellowshipped and shunned for it.
2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14-15 Now we are giving YOU orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition YOU received from us . 14 But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. 15 And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.
2 Corinthians 2:5-8 "Now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of YOU to an extent not to be too harsh in what I say. This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary now, YOU should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him."
(Luke 10:25-37) The Jews regarded the Samaritans as apostates of the Jewish religion, yet Jesus says our love is to encompass these people as well.
There are dozens of these that suggest limiting association and simply demonstrating you do not want their company if they are going to keep on gravely sinning. JWs are true straw grabbers in trying to uphold the spirit of satan.
JWs will always quote, 2 John 10 that says not to greet the Antichrist. The Watchtower uses this single scripture to support not saying hello to a disfellowshipped person.
At Scriptures such as 1 Corinthians 5, Paul outlined limiting association with Christians that practice wrongdoing, not strict shunning.
JWs, just like satan, hate Christendom. JWs love excesses to falseley make them feel holier than thou just like the Pharasees Jesus called sons of vipers and their father the devil.
Miseraccord..Above is evidence that JWs preach an abomination in disfellowshipping. I can scripturally support my view that brothers than sin should have limited association but also NOT treated as enemies but admonished as a brother. That is what is clear.
AngelFire

Australia

#2375 Feb 14, 2013
JWs and others may be interested in this...

Only elders have access to Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock and letters from the Society. In 2010, a updated Elder's book -

"Shepherd the Flock of God" - was released. Seven of its twelve chapters are devoted to disfellowshipping. A Letter to Elders, October 7, 2010 shows how secretive this book is, when it says women are not allowed to bind the book, even under supervision:

"There is no objection if an elder personally spiral binds or laminates his own textbook or does so for other elders. If he has another baptized brother who is not an elder do the work for him, the elder must watch while the work is being done. Outside companies, unbelievers, or sisters are not permitted to do this work. The material in the book is confidential, and confidentiality must be preserved."

Likewise, Letter to Elders, August 23, 2010 states:

"The information is designed for use by the elders only, and other individuals should not have any opportunity to read the information."
Even elders do not get to know the guidelines for all situations, as more difficult scenarios are discussed in letters specifically to the Bethel Branches. Most people are baptised with no knowledge that these books and letters even exist, let alone know what is contained in them.

How much information did Jesus provide the Apostles that he forbade sharing with anyone else? A religion that unscripturally disfellowships and shuns should be transparent with providing full access to information regarding these rules prior to a persons involvement, rather than hiding it even from long term members.

Miseraccord, if you are not yet baptized I suggest you request a full disclosure from this secret society and watch their horns appear before your very eyes.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#2376 Feb 14, 2013
James 5:19-20
King James Version (KJV)

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
fds

Llanelli, UK

#2377 Feb 14, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
<quoted text>
In Revelations letters to the congregations, one clearly sees that those that did not follow the false teachings were applauded, not expelled. JW call this apostasy, and individual thinking and one is disfellowshipped and shunned for it.
2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14-15 Now we are giving YOU orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition YOU received from us . 14 But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. 15 And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.
2 Corinthians 2:5-8 "Now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of YOU to an extent not to be too harsh in what I say. This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary now, YOU should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him."
(Luke 10:25-37) The Jews regarded the Samaritans as apostates of the Jewish religion, yet Jesus says our love is to encompass these people as well.
There are dozens of these that suggest limiting association and simply demonstrating you do not want their company if they are going to keep on gravely sinning. JWs are true straw grabbers in trying to uphold the spirit of satan.
JWs will always quote, 2 John 10 that says not to greet the Antichrist. The Watchtower uses this single scripture to support not saying hello to a disfellowshipped person.
At Scriptures such as 1 Corinthians 5, Paul outlined limiting association with Christians that practice wrongdoing, not strict shunning.
JWs, just like satan, hate Christendom. JWs love excesses to falseley make them feel holier than thou just like the Pharasees Jesus called sons of vipers and their father the devil.
Hi
about 3 years after i left I went incognito to a Kingdom Hall where i was not known. I went as an interested person. I got to get a few curious elders to talk after the meeting closed and i pretended not to know anything about JWs. It worked a treat as i was able to bring up the subject of the seven churches, and as you say, Jesus praised those who did not follow the party line.
In the beginning the elders were all confident like bees around a honey pot asking me to have a study, but once they twigged i knew more than i was letting on they abruptly brought the proceedings to a close and refused to carry on the discussion. I totally wrecked their doctrine of all following suit, I think the seven churches are a fine example of independent thinking as do you.

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#2378 Feb 14, 2013
AngelFire wrote:
<quoted text>
These JWs say WE misinterpret, but then can never show how we misinterpret.
I have spoken to JWs before about Peter talking to the people and calling them all priests, where they get their authority from, what makes them so special?????. All we ever get is that we misrepresent when we are using the scriptures as they are, without the need for the reasonings of man presented in a witness publication.
"You, however, are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people he claims for his own to proclaim the glorious works of the One who called you from darkness into his marvelous light" (I Peter 2:9).
None of them will take anything up. Off they run, hands waving in the air.....
ihv these things scares the begebers out of most jws..

they havent studied any of their doctirnes with the opposition at the same time.. jws like to get people alone so they dont have to respond to questions from someone knolegable..

i have broken up many a bible study in the 80 by getting myself invited to them.. and since i knew what book was being used at the time i was always prepared fwith questions the leaders couldnt answer... LOLOL it got to where if a jw elder learned i had been invited to the study it was suddenly cancelled..

and as to the thing on priests, i dont know how you feel about this but i firmly beleive in the "priesthood of the believer" i accept the bible as if IT WAS WRITTEN JUST FOR ME.. i think it will lead me into all the turth i need to be eternally saved..

and i think anyone who takes to studying the bible alone can come to the same conclusions. anyhow i beleive one day we will become a KINGDOM OF PRIESTS....
will

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#2379 Feb 14, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a bully. That others are bullies like you does not make you or your paramours less of a bully.
ihv well call it what you want i personally dont care.. facts are i see you are all messed up on the resurrection issue and you saw the wt teahings and how YOU will not rise and your whole attitude changed..

but if i takes bully ing to get you to see you follow false teachers then i will gladly become even a worse bully..

not to worry... you will be seeing a lots more on the resurrection with questions you have to answer in your heart even if you can find wt stuff that you think is true
will

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