show me without a doubt that JW's are...

show me without a doubt that JW's are wrong

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum

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maryjanedoe

United States

#1 May 5, 2009
Show me why they are wrong. Show me how their doctrines are wrong. Prove to me they are wrong. I do not want made up stories, or lies, I want facts.
Orinoco

Derby, UK

#2 May 5, 2009
maryjanedoe wrote:
Show me why they are wrong. Show me how their doctrines are wrong. Prove to me they are wrong. I do not want made up stories, or lies, I want facts.
They are not completely wrong, just like other religions they are not completely right either.

The problem is that they make the arrogant claim that they are the only organisation that God is using today.

We have approach God only through Christ.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
twotoned

United States

#3 May 5, 2009
maryjanedoe wrote:
Show me why they are wrong. Show me how their doctrines are wrong. Prove to me they are wrong. I do not want made up stories, or lies, I want facts.
Beliefs are not facts. So are you ready? Because many people here CAN refute the JWs. I think Orinoco said it right - and it's a pretty simple fact to make you run the other way - The WT believes that THEIR organization is the way to salvation - that THEY are YHVH's new chosen people, that THEY are the new Spiritual Israel. You MUST follow them in these end times.

And likened to the LIE OF SATAN TO EVE, you surely will NOT die!

This is what they want you to believe. Do YOU believe that?

“be original :)”

Since: Jan 09

somewhere in england hehe

#4 May 5, 2009
see mary all the opposition can offer is rhetoric out of their comfort zones of made up unbiblical wrongdoings certainly nothgin doctrinal.

You want a fact?

The Jw doctrines of One god Jehovah reflecting and their teachings on us being living souls etc. Yoiu only have to read the lords prayer and actually dwell on it to see the truth of our doctrines shining bright.

mathew 6:9-15

9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
maryjanedoe

United States

#5 May 5, 2009
I do not believe that JW's are the only ones who will receive Gods kingdom. I do not believe one has to go to church or even out in service to receive Gods Kingdom. I guess I am doomed arent I?

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#6 May 5, 2009
maryjanedoe wrote:
I do not believe that JW's are the only ones who will receive Gods kingdom. I do not believe one has to go to church or even out in service to receive Gods Kingdom. I guess I am doomed arent I?
*** 1 Cor 9:16 For if I preach the Good News, I have nothing to boast about; for necessity is laid on me; but woe is to me, if I don’t preach the Good News.
Orinoco

Derby, UK

#7 May 5, 2009
Reniaa wrote:
see mary all the opposition can offer is rhetoric out of their comfort zones of made up unbiblical wrongdoings certainly nothgin doctrinal.
You want a fact?
The Jw doctrines of One god Jehovah reflecting and their teachings on us being living souls etc. Yoiu only have to read the lords prayer and actually dwell on it to see the truth of our doctrines shining bright.
mathew 6:9-15
9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
I quote Joh 14:6 which tells us how we are able to approach God and you say that is unbilical rhetoric!

wow!
twotoned

United States

#8 May 5, 2009
maryjanedoe wrote:
I do not believe that JW's are the only ones who will receive Gods kingdom. I do not believe one has to go to church or even out in service to receive Gods Kingdom. I guess I am doomed arent I?
I don't think you're doomed at all! I never read a scripture from Yahushua saying we had to attend church XYZ in order to believe in Him and His Word.

If you don't believe JW's are who they say they are, then steer clear sister!
It's their way or the highway.

:-)
jimi

United States

#9 May 5, 2009
Gareth wrote:
<quoted text>
*** 1 Cor 9:16 For if I preach the Good News, I have nothing to boast about...
Then why do Jehovah's Witnesses Spend so much of their time boasting about it? Any theories gareth?

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#10 May 5, 2009
== One religion - not many:==

*** Matt 12:25 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said to them,“Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.

*** 1 Cor 1:10 Now I beg you, brothers, through the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you,...

*** John 16:13 However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth,...

*** John 17:22 The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one;

*** Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

*** Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God...

*** Matt 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest time I will tell the reapers,“First, gather up the darnel weeds, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

== Jehovah:==

*** John 12:28 Father, glorify your name!” Then there came a voice out of the sky, saying,“I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.”

*** John 17:6 I revealed your name to the people whom you have given me out of the world.

*** John 17:26 I made known to them your name, and will make it known; that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

*** Matt 28:19,20 Go, and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you.

*** Joel 2:32 It will happen that whoever will call on the name of Yahweh shall be saved...

== Cross Idol:===

*** Isa 45:16 They will be disappointed, yes, confounded, all of them. Those who are makers of idols will go into confusion together.

*** Isa 45:17 Israel will be saved by Yahweh with an everlasting salvation. You will not be disappointed nor confounded to ages everlasting.

== Organisation:==

*** 1 Thess 1:6 You became imitators of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit,

*** 1 Thess 2:14 For you, brothers, became imitators of the assemblies of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus...

*** 2 Cor 4:2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by the manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God

*** 2 Cor 6:4 but in everything commending ourselves, as servants of God, in great endurance, in afflictions, in hardships, in distresses,

*** 2 Cor 5:20 We are therefore ambassadors on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

*** Heb 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they watch on behalf of your souls, as those who will give account, that they may do this with joy, and not with groaning, for that would be unprofitable for you.

*** Luke 10:16 Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me. Whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

*** Eph 3:10 to the intent that now through the assembly the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places,
*** Eph 3:11 according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord;

*** Eph 1:10 to an administration of the fullness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, in him;

== Commission:==

*** Matt 24:14 This Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#11 May 5, 2009
jimi wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why do Jehovah's Witnesses Spend so much of their time boasting about it? Any theories gareth?
I don't know a single JW that does not say the holy spirit is what makes the preaching work possible because Jesus is directing it:

*** 1 Cor 1:31 that, according as it is written,“He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.”

*** 2 Cor 10:13 But we will not boast beyond proper limits, but within the boundaries with which God appointed to us, which reach even to you.

*** 2 Thess 1:4 so that we ourselves boast about you in the assemblies of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions which you endure.

If you read the scriptures it is boasting about YOURSELF, not about the accomplishments of the congregation through holy spirit that you should avoid.
maryjanedoe

United States

#12 May 5, 2009
"Make sure of all things and hold fast to what is fine". I have that book to Gareth. It is a shame that one of the best books they ever published was stopped becaue they felt it gave to much power to the faithful.

maryjanedoe

United States

#13 May 5, 2009
Gareth, do you believe you MUST go door to door to receive Gods kingdom? What do you see is GRACE?
Wonderingawe

Houston, TX

#14 May 5, 2009
maryjanedoe wrote:
I do not believe that JW's are the only ones who will receive Gods kingdom. I do not believe one has to go to church or even out in service to receive Gods Kingdom. I guess I am doomed arent I?
I dont beleive any extra credit is given for being a JW's or not being a JW's.

If one focuses too much on doctrine then they forget teh whole message of Jesus. Dont let dogma seperate us, let our shared Christian love bring us together.

My favorite chapter in teh Bible is 1 Corinthians 13

1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Since: Feb 07

RI

#15 May 5, 2009
Why is it that people have so much trouble distinguishing between "facts" and "beliefs?"

Facts can be proven with hard evidence. Not ONE religious belief can be so proven.

A person chooses a religion that teaches beliefs that are closest to what the individual feels is correct. This does NOT mean that the chosen religion is, in fact, true or even close to true.

All religions have some truth in them and all religions teach some things that are false, but there is no way to prove truth or falsehood either way.

A spiritual journey should, IMO, involve change and growth, and that just might mean that a particular religious group that was a good fit for a long time no longer fits...so the person moves on and enhances their spirituality by treading a slightly different path.

This does NOT mean that they have "left Jehovah" or that they are now evil degenerates. It simply means that their spiritual needs have changed, or that they have discovered moral or ethical lapses within their previous group that they feel they can no longer ignore.

Those who wrap themselves in the tent of "we have the truth and WE are the chosen ones" cut themselves off, I think, from spiritual growth.

“Praise Jah!”

Since: Feb 09

Kuna, ID

#16 May 5, 2009
Despite their errors in interpreting certain Scriptures, I believe that the JWs are the purist Christian denomination in existence today. They are not perfect, but they follow the Bible more closely than others, IMO.

I might even consider rejoining them if the old farts in Brooklyn would openly admit their errors, change their ways, and stop claiming to be God's mouthpiece.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#17 May 5, 2009
maryjanedoe wrote:
Gareth, do you believe you MUST go door to door to receive Gods kingdom? What do you see is GRACE?
I think you should do everything that is reasonable for you to do in following Jesus' command to preach.

Salvation is a FREE GIFT but it is not given lightly. There is no amount of works or deeds we can do to cover the cost of our salvation. So it is indeed a gift. But it will not be given to those who refuse to obey God and his Christ.

Remember faith alone is not good enough if your faith is not strong enough to compel you to works:

*** Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can faith save him?

*** Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself.

*** Jas 2:20 But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead?

*** Jas 2:24 You see then that by works, a man is justified, and not only by faith.

Having FAITH is something you DO, not just something you think.

One MUST obey the will of God to be saved:

*** Heb 10:36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise.

*** 1 John 2:17 The world is passing away with its lusts, but he who does God’s will remains forever.

*** Matt 28:19 Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

*** Matt 28:20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
maryjanedoe

United States

#18 May 5, 2009
Gareth wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you should do everything that is reasonable for you to do in following Jesus' command to preach.
Salvation is a FREE GIFT but it is not given lightly. There is no amount of works or deeds we can do to cover the cost of our salvation. So it is indeed a gift. But it will not be given to those who refuse to obey God and his Christ.
Remember faith alone is not good enough if your faith is not strong enough to compel you to works:
*** Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can faith save him?
*** Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself.
*** Jas 2:20 But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead?
*** Jas 2:24 You see then that by works, a man is justified, and not only by faith.
Having FAITH is something you DO, not just something you think.
One MUST obey the will of God to be saved:
*** Heb 10:36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise.
*** 1 John 2:17 The world is passing away with its lusts, but he who does God’s will remains forever.
*** Matt 28:19 Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
*** Matt 28:20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
I think works here is not speaking of going from door to door. I do not think here it is speaking of turning in hours each month to the Society. Now a simple yes or no answer..do you think you MUST go door to door to get Gods Kingdom, I want your answer, not the WTS?
I know the bible speaks of showing works, but I believe it means being a good person, showing we are trying to live by the commandments, being good to our neighbors and loving one another. Not going to five different meetings a week and showing some one how many hours we have spent out in service.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#19 May 5, 2009
maryjanedoe wrote:
I think works here is not speaking of going from door to door. I do not think here it is speaking of turning in hours each month to the Society.
We can decide for ourselves what "works" James was referring to but we still have to harmonise Grace with scriptures such as:

*** James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not only hearers, deluding your own selves.
*** James 1:23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror;
*** James 1:24 for he sees himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
*** James 1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of freedom, and continues, not being a hearer who forgets, but a doer of the work, this man will be blessed in what he does.

*** Matt 28:19 Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

*** Matt 28:20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

*** 1 Cor 9:16 For if I preach the Good News, I have nothing to boast about; for necessity is laid on me; but woe is to me, if I don’t preach the Good News.

As far as I can see those scriptures harmonise with James' talking about "works" that include spreading the gospel. After all it is the best expression of LOVE we can give to perfect strangers. And it shows we love God:

*** 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.

We have been commanded to preach.
maryjanedoe wrote:
Now a simple yes or no answer..do you think you MUST go door to door to get Gods Kingdom, I want your answer, not the WTS?
If you ask for a simple yes or no answer you'll get nothing but half truths.

All I can do is repeat what I have already said:

*** 1 Cor 9:16 For if I preach the Good News, I have nothing to boast about; for necessity is laid on me; but woe is to me, if I don’t preach the Good News.

I think you should do everything that is reasonable for you to do in following Jesus' command to preach.
maryjanedoe wrote:
I know the bible speaks of showing works, but I believe it means being a good person, showing we are trying to live by the commandments, being good to our neighbors and loving one another. Not going to five different meetings a week and showing some one how many hours we have spent out in service.
Well all I can say is this:

*** 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.

We have been told to form congregation and to meet and to preach. Why do you resent it so much? Do what you can.
maryjanedoe

United States

#20 May 5, 2009
According to your words above, you better start baptizing people too, isnt that what it says to do? Matt 28:19 Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

I do what I can to be a christian, but I will not tell ANYONE who loves Jesus and Jehovah God, that simply because they are not one of Jehovahs Witnesses that they are doomed to everlasting death.
That is what I resent. I resent also that for over 40 years I have been lied to by an organization to scare me into submission. Telling me over an over that armaggedon is coming in a certain year and for it not to happen! They are doing what the bible says not to do by doing that!

I see nothing wrong in spreading Gods word, but what i do see wrong is having to be accountable to some men in the WTS for doing it. That should be between you and God alone.

Now if you can prove to me that this is the truth I would appreciate it. Show me where its wrong for me to wear pants to the Hall, show me where its wrong for me to give my mother a gift on mothers day or her birthday for that matter. Show me without a shadow of a doubt that its wrong for me to save my own life by taking blood. Dont tell me because the bible says to pour it out on the ground, because that is talking about an animals life. We are not to eat the animal with his blood because it represents his life.

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