Scientology and the Watchtower-why th...

Scientology and the Watchtower-why the similarities?

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Tao itness

United States

#1 Jan 17, 2013
Just watched the expose on scientology on Rock Center with Brian Williams. The ex members that left and were excommunicated were asked why they didnt leave earlier and the answer was they didnt want to have everyone they knew taken away from them. Haggis' comment on a small group that is unliked and misunderstood by the rest of the world makes you feel part of a special community. The denial and double talk of the church leadership could have come straight from Brooklyn. Its interesting ,although the beleifs in these groups runs the gammit,how the control,the pain, the frustration and the lies from the top are what all high control cults have in common. And that there is always people that will defend them even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are part of a lie.
Tao itness

United States

#2 Jan 17, 2013
Whats noteworthy is that most people were attracted to scientology because they were looking for answers and they seemed to have practical solutions for them. These people did make positive changes in their lives so bought in to it hook line and sinker.
Hari Khrisha

Middletown, NY

#3 Jan 18, 2013
Right on!
lex luther

Lawrenceville, GA

#4 Jan 18, 2013
Tao itness wrote:
Whats noteworthy is that most people were attracted to scientology because they were looking for answers and they seemed to have practical solutions for them. These people did make positive changes in their lives so bought in to it hook line and sinker.
very well stated. JW's and SCIENTOLOGIST prey on unsuspecting souls to grow the CULT. They do allow one to visit the other for the full CULT experience.

Since: Feb 09

Raleigh, NC

#5 Jan 18, 2013
Tao itness wrote:
Just watched the expose on scientology on Rock Center with Brian Williams. The ex members that left and were excommunicated were asked why they didnt leave earlier and the answer was they didnt want to have everyone they knew taken away from them. Haggis' comment on a small group that is unliked and misunderstood by the rest of the world makes you feel part of a special community. The denial and double talk of the church leadership could have come straight from Brooklyn. Its interesting ,although the beleifs in these groups runs the gammit,how the control,the pain, the frustration and the lies from the top are what all high control cults have in common. And that there is always people that will defend them even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are part of a lie.
This is why I feel that the government along with the United Ad Council should publish ads on radio, TV and Internet to warn it's citizens to beware of these types of religious cults.

The government shouldn't prevent Scientologists or Jehovah's Witnesses practicing their religion because they have a right to practice whatever they want under the Constitution. However, the citizens of the United States or entitled to know exactly what it is that they are getting themselves into and the possible consequences.

I don't know anything about Scientology, but folks need to know that Jehovah's Witnesses do not fully disclose the dire consequences should a family member decide that they can no longer accept the beliefs of their religion.

My dream would be an ad on TV that says:

"Many of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses like what is taught about 1914 and being appointed by God in 1919 cannot be proven or substantiated and therefore are basically groundless claims by its leadership. Do you really want to put your life in the life of your family in their hands?"

People deserve to know everything about any religious organization BEFORE they join not after WHEN THE DAMAGE IS ALREADY DONE.
Tao itness

United States

#6 Jan 18, 2013
The reasons people stay ,even when they think its false could be a JW speaking. The resposes from the leadership and the attitudes of the faithful tword those that leave is EXSACTLY THE SAME! The Watchtower is just like every high control cult. Its the same when you research Mormons and Moonies-social control- something our Heavenly Father wont even do. ALL these religions,despite the positive face they put on ,are controlled by Satan who manipulates humans.
jace

Woodbridge, VA

#7 Jan 18, 2013
Tao itness wrote:
ALL these religions,despite the positive face they put on ,are controlled by Satan who manipulates humans.
Satan??????????

pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Ole Ronney boy was a sci fi writer like Gene Roddenberry- Gene went on to do Star Trek, Ron Hubbard started a SciFi church and made millions like Gene

Russel was a young foolish man who took a Quarter of a million dollars in the 1800s and tried to start a new religion- Rutherford came along and realized this guy was a fool, legally took the man's business of producing a few journals and a few books and realzied this could be a Publishing Powerhouse and rolled out more books to sell than one can imagine and stole the boys company from him with his legal background

Satan ain't got jack to do with 2 slick dudes Hoodwinking and Bamboozling folks into believing they will get to a "higher divine source" via their funky programs

man these are two great America Stories of how you can Sell anything and Live Well with lots of folks hanging on your every word

these are businesses and nothing else

Satan is like don't insult me with such foolishnes
little lamb

Mentone, Australia

#8 Jan 18, 2013
All big religious organizations , are run in similar manners..They assume authority over people and their authority has at times exceeded , even the authority of Christ..as they believe they are the Holy Spirit and any interpretation of scripture, must come from their headquarters which are on earth..even though the head of every man is Christ...not another man.

The problem being Jesus authority is THE WORD, which is in the HEAVENS..and they reach a stage where any other revelations are to be ignored, especially if God chooses a babe..or someone the world looks down upon to reveal it

Same error as the scribes a Pharisees..could not for the life of them..understand how God could choose a carpenters son, to minister a new covenant to them..Jesus had no other organization to direct them to..and he had followers who built no structures.

The Christ and his Apostles..never set an example of building with brick and mortar any sort of organization headquarters..and its blasphemous that people who call themselves Christians have followed the Synagogue buildings and Catholic church in doing so, but ignore Jesus example.
Jace

Woodbridge, VA

#9 Jan 18, 2013
little lamb wrote:
All big religious organizations , are run in similar manners..They assume authority over people and their authority has at times exceeded , even the authority of Christ..

.
Bingo
little lamb

Maribyrnong, Australia

#10 Jan 19, 2013
Jace wrote:
<quoted text>
Bingo
Thank you Jace..I believe Jesus has shown us THE WAY..which means he went through exactly the same thing , with the organization of his day.

He shows us, the arrogance of those in authority..how they assume they are looking after the flock, as they reason " its better for one man to die, then a whole nation"

Many running these huge organization , think very much the same way..Their idea is that 'individuals' are expendable..and that the individual doesn't have the relationship with the Father on such a personal level..They were mad at Jesus calling God his Father..and to them , that implied he had a greater closeness to God then they had..That really maddened them.

The more you study it, the more you begin to realize these guys somehow lose something, compassion or fellow feeling.

They went off at Jesus for healing a man on the sabbath..really wouldn't a normal person be glad someone was healed? not these guys..And even Jesus suffering great agony on a painful torture instrument..They were scoffing at him " Others he saved let him save himself"

"Power corrupts and total power corrupts totally."
fenton foquard Jr

Monticello, NY

#11 Jan 19, 2013
Timely advice to all Jehovah Witnesses from your governing body:

As the Sun and Mercury enter your sign, it is time for an unemotional assessment of your willpower and ego. Renew your inner vitality and energy. How determined are you? What is your purpose in life? How much personal influence do you wield? Too much self-assertion makes it difficult to accept (or ask for) the advice and opinions of others but you need to be more successful and independent. Take care of things personally. Don't allow others to speak or act for you. Your personality can make the difference between success and failure.

“Gods love ... poured out”

Since: Dec 06

Sacramento

#12 Jan 19, 2013
jace wrote:
<quoted text>
Satan??????????
pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Ole Ronney boy was a sci fi writer like Gene Roddenberry- Gene went on to do Star Trek, Ron Hubbard started a SciFi church and made millions like Gene
Russel was a young foolish man who took a Quarter of a million dollars in the 1800s and tried to start a new religion- Rutherford came along and realized this guy was a fool, legally took the man's business of producing a few journals and a few books and realzied this could be a Publishing Powerhouse and rolled out more books to sell than one can imagine and stole the boys company from him with his legal background
Satan ain't got jack to do with 2 slick dudes Hoodwinking and Bamboozling folks into believing they will get to a "higher divine source" via their funky programs
man these are two great America Stories of how you can Sell anything and Live Well with lots of folks hanging on your every word
these are businesses and nothing else
Satan is like don't insult me with such foolishnes
You think that's something Jace! I remember a few years back (maybe a little more than a few) that somebody came up with "pet rocks" and sold MANY of them, on tv and wherever. Rocks! Maybe I could sell holy dirt?

“Gods love ... poured out”

Since: Dec 06

Sacramento

#13 Jan 19, 2013
little lamb wrote:
All big religious organizations , are run in similar manners..They assume authority over people and their authority has at times exceeded , even the authority of Christ..as they believe they are the Holy Spirit and any interpretation of scripture, must come from their headquarters which are on earth..even though the head of every man is Christ...not another man.
The problem being Jesus authority is THE WORD, which is in the HEAVENS..and they reach a stage where any other revelations are to be ignored, especially if God chooses a babe..or someone the world looks down upon to reveal it
Same error as the scribes a Pharisees..could not for the life of them..understand how God could choose a carpenters son, to minister a new covenant to them..Jesus had no other organization to direct them to..and he had followers who built no structures.
The Christ and his Apostles..never set an example of building with brick and mortar any sort of organization headquarters..and its blasphemous that people who call themselves Christians have followed the Synagogue buildings and Catholic church in doing so, but ignore Jesus example.
I am not an expert on churches little lamb, but, I haven't been to one like you describe. We have men who take the lead but are open to discussion, debate, or questioning. I haven't seen anything like the JWs leadership in a church I have attended.

I, and others I know, do not veiw the "church" as someplace necessary to please God. We see it as a place to "gather together for love and good works" (notice I didn't use fine? I am slowly ridding myself of the NWT)

I think "house churches" are just as good, maybe better, but if a large group of Christians choose to support a big building and all it's ministries, I do not see anything wrong with it.
little lamb

Maribyrnong, Australia

#14 Jan 19, 2013
borgfree wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not an expert on churches little lamb, but, I haven't been to one like you describe. We have men who take the lead but are open to discussion, debate, or questioning. I haven't seen anything like the JWs leadership in a church I have attended.
I, and others I know, do not veiw the "church" as someplace necessary to please God. We see it as a place to "gather together for love and good works" (notice I didn't use fine? I am slowly ridding myself of the NWT)
I think "house churches" are just as good, maybe better, but if a large group of Christians choose to support a big building and all it's ministries, I do not see anything wrong with it.
I have met several so called ministers of different religions in my area..must say straight off..lovely blokes and ready to help..However when I asked them about baptism..they stated they would not baptize anyone , who just believed in Jesus Christ..They stated first you have to join their church.[ I've been baptized.]

Of course that got me thinking.

Because I don't see it in scripture where to be baptized meant joining a group first and then after a period of time as an accepted member you can be baptized..Don't see that in scripture anywhere..I know others after baptism joined themselves to the disciples of that time. But it wasn't a requirement to start with.

And the more I talk with some of them , they don't have a lot of knowledge about the new covenant..there is a 'haziness' there.

There is a tendency to see ones as being baptized into their denominations.

" Do not let yourself be confined again in a yoke of slavery"

As far as buildings go..Neither Jesus nor his Apostles built buildings of worship for themselves..The Temple where Jesus went at time..Jesus warned was to be destroyed..and we are under command " to follow Jesus closely"

I believe Jesus and the Apostles were pretty clear in what they were really building...a spiritual temple for God to inhabit by spirit..using living stones , with Jesus as the chief corner stone..Jesus was too involved in that building to take part in Babylonian building work.

“Gods love ... poured out”

Since: Dec 06

Sacramento

#15 Jan 19, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I have met several so called ministers of different religions in my area..must say straight off..lovely blokes and ready to help..However when I asked them about baptism..they stated they would not baptize anyone , who just believed in Jesus Christ..They stated first you have to join their church.[ I've been baptized.]
Of course that got me thinking.
Because I don't see it in scripture where to be baptized meant joining a group first and then after a period of time as an accepted member you can be baptized..Don't see that in scripture anywhere..I know others after baptism joined themselves to the disciples of that time. But it wasn't a requirement to start with.
And the more I talk with some of them , they don't have a lot of knowledge about the new covenant..there is a 'haziness' there.
There is a tendency to see ones as being baptized into their denominations.
" Do not let yourself be confined again in a yoke of slavery"
As far as buildings go..Neither Jesus nor his Apostles built buildings of worship for themselves..The Temple where Jesus went at time..Jesus warned was to be destroyed..and we are under command " to follow Jesus closely"
I believe Jesus and the Apostles were pretty clear in what they were really building...a spiritual temple for God to inhabit by spirit..using living stones , with Jesus as the chief corner stone..Jesus was too involved in that building to take part in Babylonian building work.
I went to a convention of ex-JWs in Ohio about 20 years ago, I had been baptized at 11 years old by a JW and thought that was good enough. At the convention, Paul Blizzard, who is Baptist, gave a talk and much of it was about baptism. I decided I would be baptized again and was, by and ex-JW who was a Nazarene, btw, I accepted my Lord's invitation at an alter call at an earlier ex-JW convention in Pennsylvania during a sermon given by Eric Grieshaber, who is Pentecostal.

When I decided to join the church I am now attending, I was accepted, as is, no mention of being re-baptized has ever been made. The same for other people I know. I was asked, if I had been baptized, however.

I would be extremely careful of any church which starts putting on their own rules, regulations, requirements, etc., not backed up by the Bible.

“Gods love ... poured out”

Since: Dec 06

Sacramento

#16 Jan 19, 2013
Forgot what else I intended to say little lamb, as for the buildings, I think it is a personal decision. I have given it a lot of thought. I would have no problem attending a house church,(gathering together) still, I have chosen to attend the one I now attend, understanding there is a large cost in maintaining the building, grounds, ministries, etc. We have missionary's in several places around the world who must be supported, and a list of things I will not list here, many churches do the same.

I see no prohibition against the buildings. No, the first Christians did not build worship buildings, but then, they didn't drive automobiles either.
Tao itnes

United States

#17 Jan 19, 2013
Its just baffling how the Watchtower thinks they are the only path to God while so closely emulating the pharasees of Jesus day. The way they handled the Franz case changing a rule that effected millions just to have retribution on one man. They fit the 13th chapter of Ezekiels 'stupid prophets 'perfectly. Trying to catch men alive in large nets alludes to their proselytising that makes men they catch guilty of themselves. They speak in the name of Jehovah,yet it all turns out to be falsehood and not a word comes true. The plastering of whitewash over their wall of lies describes how they keep adjusting doctrine to fit reality,instead of just admitting Jesus did not return in 1914. Their followers are taught a paradigmn that causes them to see them as Gods channel while quieting doubt in their minds when they obviously are not fitting the pattern of true religion. They refuse to admit or apologize for doctrinal changes such as organ transplants and blood fractions that have caused unnessasary death and suffering!_They are NOT WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE.! And socially their followers are so similar to other high control religons such as Scientologists,that anyone with half a brain would get away as fast as they can if they dont want to share in its judgement!
little lamb

Park Orchards, Australia

#18 Jan 19, 2013
borgfree wrote:
Forgot what else I intended to say little lamb, as for the buildings, I think it is a personal decision. I have given it a lot of thought. I would have no problem attending a house church,(gathering together) still, I have chosen to attend the one I now attend, understanding there is a large cost in maintaining the building, grounds, ministries, etc. We have missionary's in several places around the world who must be supported, and a list of things I will not list here, many churches do the same.
I see no prohibition against the buildings. No, the first Christians did not build worship buildings, but then, they didn't drive automobiles either.
I told the Elder at the time I was preparing for baptism, that I hope he realized I was being baptized into Christ and not being baptized into THEM..

I also told him, even if I found they were wrong, I would never be baptized again, because I was not baptized into them..He stated I had the right attitude..again another nice bloke.

But your allegory about the fact the didn't have cars back there, doesn't fit the scenario..because they certainly had " buildings"

back then.

And the more I search scripture the more I see " building of churches" are not scriptural.

And reading church history, you have to shake your head at the destruction of one church building of one another that happened with the Catholics and the Protestants.

really lovely designed and intricately decorated buildings..destroyed..Christia n upon Christian ..appalling .

I also believe you hit a nail on the head, when you mention the enormous cost of building and maintaining some of these properties..and to have that sort of money means spiritual things have to take second place to keep these things going..

I find that taking on owning property brings one into Caesars jurisdiction..now you have to pay taxes, or beg Caesar for exemptions, which means a placing of the church under the Law of Caesar, in regulations of benefits..which means the church is liable to any change in regulations Caesar might enact..

Then a particular event occurs, the church of Christ, that is to be no part of this world becomes very much a part of this world as a worldly corporation , under the control of the finance department of the tax department.

Whilst you may have men as Presidents who have Christian waters still in the sap..they may court the church for their own benefit...but if you get the populous more ungodly and a President in whom the sap has dried and unpopularity increasing on churches because of abuse of clergy.,,,you will see political authority tighten the screws on public buildings of worship.

a Christian who heeds Jesus advice to worship the Father in spirit and truth..is told in scripture that there is no law that can be made against the fruitage of the spirit..

it gives us a freedom that many others don't have, as their ideology becomes you are only a Christian if you go to some particular church building.
Tao itness

United States

#19 Jan 19, 2013
Hey LL youre comment is interesting. The gathering of Jesus followers was getting together at a beleivers house. It was about the fellowship and building one another up and discussing scripture. It was an intimate and uplifting congregant. I used to love the intimacy of the bookstudy when I was a JW, and now theyve even scrapped that. It also cuts down on costs and decentralizes power making it a true brotherhood.
little lamb

Australia

#20 Jan 20, 2013
It went further, they sold their property and had all things in common..you don't see that today..total commitment to Jesus and to each other..

“Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me: saith Jehovah or what is the place of my rest?” Acts 7:48-49

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