Great Crowd Should NOT Partake

“All the best to you, in life!”

Since: Oct 07

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#445 Sep 20, 2013
Wow, they sure don't like threads that stop going their way, do they?

“KeepProclaiming Christ Death ”

Since: Dec 09

Lynchburg, VA

#446 Sep 23, 2013
AuldSoul1 wrote:
In 2005, in the letter I wrote to disassociate myself, I expressed as one of the five reasons that the Governing Body has been exercising all the authority in the religion for decades while claiming that the anointed remnant were fulfilling that role, in effect blaming the entire anointed remnant for all of the false teachings and Draconian policies of the Governing Body.
That was 8 years ago.
There was CLEARLY no authority exercised (or any mechanism by which authority COULD BE exercised) by the anointed remnant over the Governing Body. In fact, there is no way to know who is and who is not a member of the anointed remnant, even among Governing Body members.
And that is a fact.
The anointed remnant NEVER had any authority in the religion.
My father (a Presiding Overseer of a congregation and an elder for over 40 years at that time) and others (including a Circuit Overseer) had already tried extensively to convince me that there was every reason to have confidence that the faithful and discreet slave (which, at that time, meant the anointed remnant) WERE in fact in charge of God's organization.
There was, as I knew, IN FACT, no reason at all to believe the anointed remnant had ANY authority in the religion whatsoever.
Why did these otherwise intelligent men believe there WAS a reason to feel the anointed remnant had authority in the religion?
The Governing Body said so.
Why do they believe, now, that the anointed remnant have no authority as a collective group in the religion?
The Governing Body said so.
My perceptions were ONLY wrong BECAUSE my perceptions disagreed with the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.
I was correct.
I was found guilty, anyway.
When Jehovah's Witnesses like Thirdwitness have their minds changed for them by Governing Body decree, their minds LITERALLY change. They begin, very quickly, to forget that they ever felt or spoke as strongly as they did about what they used to teach as truth.
They have already begun to forget that the anointed remnant ARE the faithful and discreet slave in all literature they published from the 1950's through to 2012.
Just as they have all but forgotten that the USSR and the Soviet Bloc of nations is the LAST King of the North, the one who will still be oppressing God's people when Armageddon comes.
Just as they have utterly forgotten that the woman's mysterious name in Revelation "Babylon the Great" refers to the Episcopalian Church, that Armageddon began on schedule in 1914, that the 1,000 year reign of Christ began in 1914, that the parousia began in 1874, that the Last Days began in 1799, and SO MANY OTHER core teachings that they used to teach as truth ...
... but have conveniently forgotten.
Not only that, they pretend that what they used to teach about these things does not matter AT ALL.
What measure should someone reasonably use to assess how much confidence a religion's current doctrines deserves, if not by examination of how much confidence that same religion's previous doctrines deserved?
After all, young ones in 1969 had no time to fulfill a career or pursue higher education. That WAS a fact, until time proved otherwise.
That FACT deserved ZERO confidence.
Far too many of the facts and interpretations from the Governing Body have deserved zero confidence.
FYI: Jehovah doesn't REALLY live on Alcyone in the Pleiades cluster, and never did.
Can you even visualize the fake GB doing as Jesus did in John 13:15. They are fake ministers.
Thirdwitness

United States

#447 Sep 24, 2013
Back to the subject.

Great Crowd Live on Earth

"These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation"--7:14.

The GT is on earth so of course coming out of it means being on earth.

By comparing chapter 7 of Revelation with chapter 21 of Revelation we can immediately see that the great crowd will live on the earth.

21:1: "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; ...2 I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

New heaven = New Jerusalem ruling over the new earth.

New earth = righteous "mankind" "peoples" (as the next verses show)

1. God's tent over mankind/peoples/GC.

"the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them (GC)"--7:15.

"The tent of God is with mankind...they will be his peoples"--21:3.

2. Tears wiped away from mankind/GC.

"God will wipe out every tear from their (GC) eyes"--7:17

"he will wipe out every tear from their (mankind/peoples) eyes"--21:4

3. No more thirsting by mankind/GC.

"They (GC) will hunger no more nor thirst anymore"--7:16.

"To anyone (mankind/peoples) thirsting I will give"--21:6.

4. Mankind/GC guided to waters of life.

"the Lamb...will guide them (GC) to fountains of waters of life"--7:17.

"I will give (to mankind/peoples) from the fountain of the water of life free"--21:6.

5. No scorching sun on GC/mankind.

"neither will the sun beat down upon them (GC) nor any scorching heat, because the Lamb...will shepherd them"--7:16,17.

"the city has no need of the sun ...for the glory of God lighted it up, and its lamp was the Lamb (shining down on mankind/peoples)."--21:23

6. GC/mankind from all nations.

"a great crowd ... out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues"--7:9.

"And the nations (mankind/peoples) will walk by means of its light"--21:24.

When we compare the great crowd of Revelation 7 with the peoples and mankind of Revelation 21, there can be no doubt that the Great Crowd of Revelation 7 are human earthlings just as mankind/peoples in Revelation 21 are human earthlings.
Thirdwitness

United States

#448 Sep 24, 2013
Revelation 21 shows the distinct difference between the bride (who are made up of persons who receive a heavenly reward) and the peoples/mankind (human earthlings) who benefit from the rule of New Jerusalem and Jesus Christ.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth... 2 I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say:“Look! The tent of God is with MANKIND, and he will reside with them, and they will be his PEOPLES"--21:1-3.

Bride is heavenly.

Mankind/peoples obviously are earthly just as the Great Crowd are earthly receiving the same blessings as noted in my previous post.

Revelation 22:17 shows the distinction as well: "And the spirit and the bride keep on saying:“Come!” And let anyone hearing say:“Come" And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free"

Who are these ones who hear the bride and extend the invitation to others to take life's water free? They are people other than the bride because the bride has already been mentioned as extending the invitation. Thus it is not just those with the heavenly reward that extends the invitation to come and drink life's water free. It is also those of the Great Crowd
Thirdwitness

United States

#449 Sep 24, 2013
Exodus 19:5,6 a little more.
"5And now if you will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then you will certainly become my special property out of all [other] peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me.6And you yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’"

So Jehovah was going to have a kingdom of priests for the blessing of all nations. This kingdom of priests would be in a covenant with God. Israel failed and did not come under that New Covenant as a nation of kings and priests. But Jehovah still was determined to have a holy nation of kings and priests that he would bring into the New Covenant.
And that he did. And so the New Covenant is between Jehovah and those that will rule as kings and priests with Christ.

Do you people think everyone is going to be kings and priests ruling from heaven? Who would they rule over? And did you think since Israel failed to make up that kingdom of priests that he just decided to change and have a New Covenant that included all subjects whether kings and priests in heaven or not?

Use logic and reasoning and scriptures. Don't just believe from the seat of your anti-JW pants like Auldsoul.
Thirdwitness

United States

#450 Sep 24, 2013
Its not about the fact that all Israel was under the Old Law Covenant. Its about the nation becoming a kingdom of priests. It is the kingdom of priests who partake in the New Covenant.

Exodus 19:5,6 bears this out. But they were unfaithful as a nation so they did not become that holy nation of kingdom priests. Instead a new nation called spiritual Israel was created for the purpose of becoming a kingdom of priests.

ONLY THOSE WHO ARE TO BE IN THAT KINGDOM OF PRIESTS ARE IN THE NEW COVENANT. That's why the Great Crowd do not partake because they are not in the kingdom of priests new covenant.
Thirdwitness

United States

#451 Sep 24, 2013
Why the need for earthly subjects at the end times?

So when did the the earthly subjects show up ?

All through the hundreds of years since Christ an earthly class was not needed because there was no destruction followed by a new world. Not until after the GT would an earthly class be needed.

Can you imagine if all the wicked were destroyed at Armageddon and all the righteous went to heaven at that time. The earth would then be empty. No one would be there to welcome back the resurrected ones and explain what was going on.

Seems Jehovah knew what he was doing, huh? That's the logic and beauty of Jehovah's plan to have an earthly great crowd survive the GT into the new world.
Thirdwitness

United States

#452 Sep 24, 2013
Some will protest,'well all the Israelites were under the Old Covenant so all Christians must be under the new covenant.' Its not about the fact that all Israel was under the Old Law Covenant. Its about the nation becoming a kingdom of priests. It is the kingdom of priests who partake in the New Covenant.

Exodus 19:5,6 bears this out: "5And now if ​you will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then you​ will certainly become my special property out of all [other] peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me.6And you yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the sons of Israel.”

But they were unfaithful as a nation so they did not become that holy nation of kingdom priests. Instead a new nation called spiritual Israel was created for the purpose of becoming a kingdom of priests.

ONLY THOSE WHO ARE TO BE IN THAT KINGDOM OF PRIESTS ARE IN THE NEW COVENANT. That's why the Great Crowd do not partake because they are not in the kingdom of priests new covenant.
Thirdwitness

United States

#453 Sep 24, 2013
Conclusion:
If the Great Crowd are in the New Covenant NOW and should partake then they are in the New Covenant AFTER the GT and should partake. But Jesus said no more memorials after he arrives.

Why does he just suddenly cut off the Great Crowd at that time? Do they no longer need Christ's sacrifice immediately AFTER the GT?

The reason the memorial celebration ceases AFTER Jesus arrives at the GT is because the Great Crowd do not partake. Only those taken to heaven to be kings and priests partake since only they are in the new covenant. And when they are no longer on earth after Jesus arrives, there will no longer be a need to celebrate the memorial.
Thirdwitness

United States

#454 Sep 24, 2013
Now can anyone actually present a logical and Biblical presentation that refutes this.
little lamb

South Yarra, Australia

#455 Sep 24, 2013
Jesus came to gather all things together...the things in the heaven and the things on the earth ..to bring us all to the oneness with him and the Father.

Jesus gave his commandment to his followers...and he never divided his commandments upto one lot of sheep with another lot of commandments for another lot

He is the Great shepherd of the sheep , raised up from the dead with the blood of an EVERLASTING COVENANT.
little lamb

South Yarra, Australia

#456 Sep 24, 2013
Jesus says " Now is the day of salvation, now is the day to be saved.'

TW just believes the lie of the devil, that there is a better deal up ahead, and he can ignore the covenant Jesus mediates between God and men...because the devil promises him a better deal TOMORROW.
little lamb

South Yarra, Australia

#457 Sep 24, 2013
And it is interesting the deal TW has struck with the Devil...is one like Cains...bloodless..

The Devil says to TW...Is it true Gods son says if you drink his blood and eat his flesh...you will have life in you?

" yes' says TW..He says to keep doing this in remembrance of him

" No" says the old Devel ' He didn't mean that, for in the day of your eating and drinking it..You will durely die.

But if you don't eat it or drink it....God knows you will live forever...and jesus only set it up so you would die."

Oh dear TQ...he has done this before...
Thirdwitness

Haslet, TX

#458 Sep 24, 2013
little lamb wrote:
And it is interesting the deal TW has struck with the Devil...is one like Cains...bloodless..
The Devil says to TW...Is it true Gods son says if you drink his blood and eat his flesh...you will have life in you?
" yes' says TW..He says to keep doing this in remembrance of him
" No" says the old Devel ' He didn't mean that, for in the day of your eating and drinking it..You will durely die.
But if you don't eat it or drink it....God knows you will live forever...and jesus only set it up so you would die."
Oh dear TQ...he has done this before...
Thanks for showing us you have no logical biblical refutation.
Thirdwitness

Haslet, TX

#459 Sep 24, 2013
Who's next?
Thirdwitness

Haslet, TX

#460 Sep 24, 2013
Little Lamb quoted two scriptures.

Jesus came to gather all things together...the things in the heaven and the things on the earth ..to bring us all to the oneness with him and the Father.

Now is the day of salvation, now is the day to be saved.

I agree with both. Neither show us that those who will not be kings and priests in heaven are in the new covenant and should partake. And neither refute ny logical biblical presentation.

“All the best to you, in life!”

Since: Oct 07

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#461 Sep 24, 2013
Thirdwitness wrote:
Conclusion:

If the Great Crowd are in the New Covenant NOW and should partake then they are in the New Covenant AFTER the GT and should partake. But Jesus said no more memorials after he arrives.
But he arrived in 1874, oh wait, 1914. Didn't you get the memo?

He has been ruling in the midst of his enemies since then.

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses continue to do something in remembrance of Jesus AFTER his return?

Is it the same reason the virgins were still watching for Jesus' parousia to commence 40 years after they believed his parousia already had commenced?

Screwy, whacky cult!
Thirdwitness

United States

#462 Sep 24, 2013
AuldSoul1 wrote:
<quoted text>
But he arrived in 1874, oh wait, 1914. Didn't you get the memo?
He has been ruling in the midst of his enemies since then.
Why do Jehovah's Witnesses continue to do something in remembrance of Jesus AFTER his return?
Is it the same reason the virgins were still watching for Jesus' parousia to commence 40 years after they believed his parousia already had commenced?
Screwy, whacky cult!
Gotta love those straw men.

Auldsoul knows that we believe Jesus will arrive to execute judgment at the GT.

You guys are so funny!

“All the best to you, in life!”

Since: Oct 07

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#464 Sep 24, 2013
Thirdwitness wrote:
Auldsoul knows that we believe Jesus will arrive to execute judgment at the GT.
But the Great Tribulation started in 1914 ... I mean, 1922, I mean before 1975, I mean, before the generation that was alive to see 1914 dies out completely, I mean, not yet.

See, when doctrines can change anytime the Governing Body wants, there doesn't even need to be A REAL TRUTH.

Any factual statement is as good as truth to you as any other factual statement; as long as it comes from the Governing Body you will ACCEPT it and TEACH it as though it is the truth.

Why, I used to get argument from some who post here when I would say that the Governing Body has all authority in the religion and that the anointed remnant, as a class, had no authority whatsoever.

Now that the Governing Body FINALLY agrees with what I used to teach, no Jehovah's Witnesses argue about that statement.

But the anointed remnant, as a class, NEVER had any authority in the religion, even when the Governing Body claimed they did. That isn't NEW LIGHT, only the fact that the Governing Body PUBLICLY ADMITS the always true reality is new.

Which means the Governing Body tried to disavow the authority Jesus gave them for over 90 years, if their 1919 math is correct, which they will probably change soon, now that they no longer hide the fact that they ARE (collectively) the cult leader.

You bobble-heads gulp that nonsense up, whatever nonsense they spew from their hindquarters this month, or next.
Thirdwitness

United States

#465 Sep 24, 2013
AuldSoul1 wrote:
<quoted text>
But the Great Tribulation started in 1914 ... I mean, 1922, I mean before 1975, I mean, before the generation that was alive to see 1914 dies out completely, I mean, not yet.
See, when doctrines can change anytime the Governing Body wants, there doesn't even need to be A REAL TRUTH.
Any factual statement is as good as truth to you as any other factual statement; as long as it comes from the Governing Body you will ACCEPT it and TEACH it as though it is the truth.
Why, I used to get argument from some who post here when I would say that the Governing Body has all authority in the religion and that the anointed remnant, as a class, had no authority whatsoever.
Now that the Governing Body FINALLY agrees with what I used to teach, no Jehovah's Witnesses argue about that statement.
But the anointed remnant, as a class, NEVER had any authority in the religion, even when the Governing Body claimed they did. That isn't NEW LIGHT, only the fact that the Governing Body PUBLICLY ADMITS the always true reality is new.
Which means the Governing Body tried to disavow the authority Jesus gave them for over 90 years, if their 1919 math is correct, which they will probably change soon, now that they no longer hide the fact that they ARE (collectively) the cult leader.
You bobble-heads gulp that nonsense up, whatever nonsense they spew from their hindquarters this month, or next.
More dodging diverting deflecting and dancing.

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