Since: Mar 09

United States

#147 Jun 24, 2012
I agree w3ith Gareth. Some seem to misconstrue the "two people" requirement, and how it applies or when.
UNchained

Seymour, TN

#148 Jun 25, 2012
Nomi wrote:
I agree w3ith Gareth. Some seem to misconstrue the "two people" requirement, and how it applies or when.
Stick your head back in the sand whwer it is safe and comfy, Nomi.

We'll call you if and when the Watchtower Society gets some new light and adopts the same reporting policy that Christendom has in place.

You can quit reading at this point, Nomi.

I don't want you to get a headache from reading the next paragraph.

The catholic church found out that catholics care more about what God thinks than what the vatican thinks because the individual catholics got together and demanded that the church stop doing the same things that the WTBTS has been doing for many years.

“Bustin' Myths”

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#149 Jun 25, 2012
Tao itness wrote:
<quoted text> you show youre ignorance of youre own leaders policies and Gods thinking on matters. even the Watchtower says this does not involve gross or possibly violent sins. also cases in Isreal and in the Christian cong. were held out in the open. many of the men were KNOWN MOLESTERS! But kept quiet to give the facade of being in spiritual paradise ,which will happen at Christs authentic arrival. Have you not read'keep openly confessing youre sins to one another.' If that advice with was followed ,no children would be harmed! They are also charged to protect the sheep-but the JW lawyer said-its not OUR resposibility-THEY ARE THE ONES THAT CANT FOLLOw gods word!_THERE EXPOSURE HAS JUST BEGUN!
Hell yeah!

“Bustin' Myths”

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#150 Jun 25, 2012
UNchained wrote:
<quoted text>
Stick your head back in the sand whwer it is safe and comfy, Nomi.
We'll call you if and when the Watchtower Society gets some new light and adopts the same reporting policy that Christendom has in place.
You can quit reading at this point, Nomi.
I don't want you to get a headache from reading the next paragraph.
The catholic church found out that catholics care more about what God thinks than what the vatican thinks because the individual catholics got together and demanded that the church stop doing the same things that the WTBTS has been doing for many years.
Exactly!

“A voice of reason”

Since: Aug 09

Crooklyn

#151 Jun 25, 2012
Duh-boy wrote:
Incredible! People really hate God's word the bible.
Jesus said:(Matthew 18:15, 16) 15 “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be establish. . .

Opposers: Every matter, even child abuse.

Jesus: What did I say? Did I not say every matter?

Opposers: I can't follow you Jesus, your words protect pedophile's.
"Duh-boy," is it your position that your religious leaders teach that the admonition at Matt. 18:15-17 applies to ALL forms of sin, including sexual sins (adultery, fornication, etc.)?

I suggest that you consult your Watchtower Library before responding.

“A voice of reason”

Since: Aug 09

Crooklyn

#152 Jun 25, 2012
Reader519 wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, Gareth doesn't defend his wacky theology, he just casts dispersions. I think the WT warned about this tactic in its magazine on propaganda.

If governments are willing to investigate allegations and seek a conviction even for a molester that has only one witness, that shows a search for justice. They use other means of evidence, technologies that were not available to bible writers, technologies that were apparently not foreseen by god, the supposed author of the bible.

In contrast, god requires that 2 witnesses be present for every case that his organization tries. It is the rule.

Now, who strives harder for justice for the victims?
Ouch. I would not expect Watchtower Defender "Aneirin" (who formerly cowered behind the pseudonym "Gareth" before abandoning that moniker in shame) to provide a substantive response.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#153 Jun 25, 2012
Regardless of religious affiliation, there is no worse crime than child abuse/molestation/murder. Any of the above, especially molestation/murder should be liable for the death penalty or life imprisonment.

When you knowingly take an innocent child and USE them for your own sick pleasures, you lose any accommodation for a just trial.

Just saw a documentary on Sheila E.(used to sing with Prince) and she started an organization for abused children after coming to terms with the fact that an upstairs neighbor started raping her at 5! FIVE!!!

So while I understand various doctrinal rules within churches/KH, they do not supersede criminal laws of the land and any abusers should be subject to punishment by the authorities.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#154 Jun 25, 2012
Olin Moyle wrote:
<quoted text>
"Duh-boy," is it your position that your religious leaders teach that the admonition at Matt. 18:15-17 applies to ALL forms of sin, including sexual sins (adultery, fornication, etc.)?
I suggest that you consult your Watchtower Library before responding.
Yup!

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#155 Jun 25, 2012
Michael2010 wrote:
Regardless of religious affiliation, there is no worse crime than child abuse/molestation/murder. Any of the above, especially molestation/murder should be liable for the death penalty or life imprisonment.
When you knowingly take an innocent child and USE them for your own sick pleasures, you lose any accommodation for a just trial.
Just saw a documentary on Sheila E.(used to sing with Prince) and she started an organization for abused children after coming to terms with the fact that an upstairs neighbor started raping her at 5! FIVE!!!
So while I understand various doctrinal rules within churches/KH, they do not supersede criminal laws of the land and any abusers should be subject to punishment by the authorities.
I agree will google that doc.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#156 Jun 25, 2012
Olin Moyle wrote:
<quoted text>
"Duh-boy," is it your position that your religious leaders teach that the admonition at Matt. 18:15-17 applies to ALL forms of sin, including sexual sins (adultery, fornication, etc.)?
I suggest that you consult your Watchtower Library before responding.
There are sins..slander .things done with out thinking.. But rape and murder are generally a consious decision. Pre-meditated.. and for those that are suposedly your brother.. Meaning.. that he should have full Knowledge of how God views this.. To do it for their own selfish gradifacation.. In essence he has spit in God's eye.. And proved himself ..beyond the shadow of a doubt ..not a worshiper of GOD.. NOT a Brother.. He is to be put out.. not even sharing food with that person..Spiritual or other wise.. This is to Duh-boy.. Who seems to be clumping all sins as equal..

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#157 Jun 25, 2012
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup!
yup! it does ..or yup! your will check it out.. And or yup! you will discern by reading more then a snipit of scripture on the subject..???
Being as how you are in general posting to several people on the subject.

“A voice of reason”

Since: Aug 09

Crooklyn

#158 Jun 25, 2012
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup!
Nice try.

Take a look at your "Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry" book. I think it's chapter 12. Regarding Jesus's direction at Matthew 18:15-17, your religious leaders state the following:

"although serious, the offenses here discussed were limited in nature to such as could be settled between the individuals involved. This would not include such offenses as fornication, adultery, homosexuality, blasphemy, apostasy, idolatry and similar gross sins that should be reported to the elders and handled by them. When the Law covenant was in force, these sins required more than forgiveness from an offended individual.-1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Gal. 5:19-21."

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#159 Jun 25, 2012
Olin Moyle wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice try.
Take a look at your "Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry" book. I think it's chapter 12. Regarding Jesus's direction at Matthew 18:15-17, your religious leaders state the following:
"although serious, the offenses here discussed were limited in nature to such as could be settled between the individuals involved. This would not include such offenses as fornication, adultery, homosexuality, blasphemy, apostasy, idolatry and similar gross sins that should be reported to the elders and handled by them. When the Law covenant was in force, these sins required more than forgiveness from an offended individual.-1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Gal. 5:19-21."


That's in harmony with the scriptures as well. I don't feel the need with going into detail with you, as it would be a sore waste of time.
samMYdog

Philadelphia, PA

#160 Jun 25, 2012
Kevin 321 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are quickly losing my respect. Are you kidding me? Lets say I am a JW, and a brother molests my child. I am supposed to go to the molester first, to do what? Ask him to apologize? Ask him to turn himself into the elders?
It would be best to keep the fathers of molested children as far from the pedophile as possible, otherwise the GB will be looking at alot more than molestation charges.
Even the best christian would have trouble refraining from violence against the abuser.
Sam>>
You do what the bible says not mans wisdom.
(1 Corinthians 3:18, 19). . .. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; . . .

do you want to be wise or foolish?
samMYdog

Philadelphia, PA

#161 Jun 25, 2012
UNchained wrote:
<quoted text>
Stick your head back in the sand whwer it is safe and comfy, Nomi.
We'll call you if and when the Watchtower Society gets some new light and adopts the same reporting policy that Christendom has in place.
You can quit reading at this point, Nomi.
I don't want you to get a headache from reading the next paragraph.
The catholic church found out that catholics care more about what God thinks than what the vatican thinks because the individual catholics got together and demanded that the church stop doing the same things that the WTBTS has been doing for many years.
Sam>.
Comming from a person that has his brain burried in the sand.the Catholic church has been covering up their sin since they satrted in the 4th century.
Kenny Kenjagger

Middletown, NY

#162 Jun 25, 2012
Did the Catholic church fart in the 4th century?

“A voice of reason”

Since: Aug 09

Crooklyn

#163 Jun 25, 2012
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
That's in harmony with the scriptures as well. I don't feel the need with going into detail with you, as it would be a sore waste of time.
So, let's get this straight.

I ask this Watchtower Defender whether his religious leaders teach that the admonition at Matt. 18:15-17 applies to all sins, including things such as adultery and fornication.[1]

The Watchtower Defender responded in the affirmative.[2]

Then, I showed the Watchtower Defender that his religious leaders disagree with him.[3] Specifically, his religious leaders teach that the admonition at Matt. 18:15-17 "would not include such offenses as fornication, adultery, homosexuality, blasphemy, apostasy, idolatry and similar gross sins."

So, which is it? Does the admonition at Matt. 18:15-17 apply to ALL sins (as "Duh-Boy" contends) or only to SOME sins (as "Duh-Boy's" Watchtower religious leaders contend)?

Inquiring minds want to know.

References:
[1] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
[2] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
[3] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

“A voice of reason”

Since: Aug 09

Crooklyn

#164 Jun 25, 2012
*fixed an error in the links - this replaces my previous post*
Duh-boy wrote:
That's in harmony with the scriptures as well. I don't feel the need with going into detail with you, as it would be a sore waste of time.
So, let's get this straight.

I ask this Watchtower Defender whether his religious leaders teach that the admonition at Matt. 18:15-17 applies to all sins, including things such as adultery and fornication.[1]

The Watchtower Defender responded in the affirmative.[2]

Then, I showed the Watchtower Defender that his religious leaders disagree with him.[3] Specifically, his religious leaders teach that the admonition at Matt. 18:15-17 "would not include such offenses as fornication, adultery, homosexuality, blasphemy, apostasy, idolatry and similar gross sins."

So, which is it? Does the admonition at Matt. 18:15-17 apply to ALL sins (as "Duh-Boy" contends) or only to SOME sins (as "Duh-Boy's" Watchtower religious leaders contend)?

Inquiring minds want to know.

References:
[1] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
[2] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
[3] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#165 Jun 25, 2012
Thirdwitness wrote:
WT publications have for a very long time and consistently instructed elders not to tell others that they couldn't go to the police. And the publications have told everyone that they have every right to inform the authorities.
November 15, 1962 Watchtower, page 693: "9 Worldly authorities render a judgment and punish persons, whether they are inside the congregation or outside, if they violate the laws of decency and good order....Hence the Christian congregation cannot protect any of its members if they steal, smuggle, commit bigamy, murder, libel, defraud, and so forth...."
January 22, 1985 Awake: "Parents must make it very clear that the little victim is not to blame. The crime and anything that happens as a result of it—even if a close relative goes to prison—is not her (or his) fault."
November 1, 1991 Watchtower: "Of course, some acts are more serious than personal affronts or hurts. What if we are the victim of a crime?... Should a crime victim, then, sit back and passively take the abuse? Not necessarily. When our person or property is violated, there are authorities to turn to. You may wish to call the police...."
January 1, 1997 Watchtower, pp. 26-29 confirms: "Depending on the law of the land where he lives, the molester may well have to serve a prison term or face other sanctions from the State.(The congregation will not protect him from this.)"
April 8, 1997 Awake: "Of course, children should also be warned about—and urged to report to authorities—any person making improper advances toward them, including people they know"
August 1, 2005 Watchtower: "In our time, rape is also a major crime with severe penalties. The victim has every right to report the matter to the police. In this way the proper authorities can punish the offender. And if the victim is a minor, the parents may want to initiate these actions."
It is only bad elders like Jace who ignored the instructions or couldn't comprehend the instructions because of their own arrogant ideas that told people not to go to the police. These bad elders are eventually weeded out when they are exposed. Just like Jace, thank goodness. What a terrible elder he must have been imposing his own ideas on everyone.
It would of been terrible having him as my Elder. He would of been an Elder that would of said that the society says not to report such crimes as child abuse. This would of been due to not comprehending clear and concise articles that made it clear reporting such crimes was completely okay.

Even now he fails to comprehend what all those articles said. It would of been very dangerous being a child in his congregation.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#166 Jun 25, 2012
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
That's in harmony with the scriptures as well. I don't feel the need with going into detail with you, as it would be a sore waste of time.
yes... you might learn something.. Not wanting to see what the scriptures are really saying ..WHY are you on here??? To cause a diversion??

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