Abel and Meat
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“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

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#21 Dec 9, 2012
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>
And thus the answer could very well be simply that God told him how and what to sacrifice. That God gave instructions and talked to them is apparent by the account itself where Cain receives counsel. Cain showed no surprise in being talked to by God.
I agree,God even gave him another chance to do it right.

Gen. 4:6,7
So the Lord said to Cain,“Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

Since: Apr 07

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#22 Dec 9, 2012
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From post 20[1]:
Thirdwitness wrote:
And thus the answer could very well be simply that God told him how and what to sacrifice. That God gave instructions and talked to them is apparent by the account itself where Cain receives counsel. Cain showed no surprise in being talked to by God.


Would Abel have broken any express requirement of God had he chose to take in animal meat?

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 20: http http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

Since: Apr 07

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#23 Dec 9, 2012
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From post 21[1]:
Christian Trucker wrote:
I agree,God even gave him another chance to do it right.
Gen. 4:6,7
So the Lord said to Cain,“Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”
Would Abel have broken any express requirement of God had he chose to take in animal meat?

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 21: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

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#24 Dec 9, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
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From post 21[1]:
<quoted text>
Would Abel have broken any express requirement of God had he chose to take in animal meat?
Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:
1. Post 21: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
I haven't seen any scripture to support it either way at this point. We know that God give them a green light for a cookout in chapter 9,other than that,I cannot say,just guess.

What are your thoughts?
diogenes

United States

#25 Dec 9, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
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Abel made a sacrifice to God.
If fatty meat was not something valuable to Abel then why sacrifice it to God?
If fatty meat was valuable to Abel then other than food what value could it have held to him?
Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
Fat is valuable for topical healing of burns and other wounds (even though there were plants that was far more effective).

Since: Apr 07

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#26 Dec 9, 2012
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From post 24[1]:
Christian Trucker wrote:
What are your thoughts?


I agree with commentators who hold that early humans were not faced with a prohibition of eating meat.

I agree with 2 Peter 2:12 that animals have always lived and died.

In the natural world dead meat is eaten and always has been as part of the earth’s ecosystem. Soulical creatures eat meat, metabolized it and then defecate. This process decomposes meat to molecular structures other plant and animal life can take in and use as food.

If as 2 Peter 2:12 says is true that animals have always lived and died then the eating of meat has always been part of the food chain on earth.

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 24: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

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#27 Dec 9, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
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From post 14[1]:
<quoted text>
Yet the biblical record says Abel sacrificed fatty meat; not blood.
So what made the fatty meat valuable?
The Bible says that Abel was a herder, therefore they were obviously using the animals for by-products like milk and fleece.

So the sacrifice was a HEALTHY LOOKING specimine, unlike Cain's offerings.
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
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<quoted text>
Because the Bible expresses vegetable matter is a food for humans does not mean eating meat was forbidden. What affirmative proof do you have that Abel did not eat meat?
Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:
1. Post 14: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
It doesn't make sense that the Bible would record that man could eat vegetables and forget to mention that he could also eat the other animals.

Further, it doesn't make sense that God would EXPRESSLY give Noah permission to eat animals if people already were allowed to eat animals.

So it simple doesn't make sense to assume man was allowed to eat animals before the flood when the Bible says different.

Since: Apr 07

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#28 Dec 9, 2012
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From post 25[1]:
diogenes wrote:
Fat is valuable for topical healing of burns and other wounds (even though there were plants that was far more effective).
Two questions for diogenes:

Do you think topical administration of fat would have been understood by the ancients as a method of eating animal flesh?

Would Abel have broken any express requirement of God had he chose to take in animal meat?

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 25: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

Since: Apr 07

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#29 Dec 9, 2012
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From post 27[1]:
Aneirin wrote:
The Bible says that Abel was a herder, therefore they were obviously using the animals for by-products like milk and fleece.
.
So the sacrifice was a HEALTHY LOOKING specimine, unlike Cain's offerings.


I don’t see anything in the Genesis account suggesting Cain’s offering was not healthy or not healthy looking.

God taught humans to butcher animals. Abel was a killer of animals.

So what made the fatty pieces Abel sacrificed valuable to Abel, and hence a sacrifice to give up?
Aneirin wrote:
It doesn't make sense that the Bible would record that man could eat vegetables and forget to mention that he could also eat the other animals.
.
Further, it doesn't make sense that God would EXPRESSLY give Noah permission to eat animals if people already were allowed to eat animals.
.
So it simple doesn't make sense to assume man was allowed to eat animals before the flood when the Bible says different.
Did God also “forget” to mention that humans could eat water because He did not specifically mention it at Genesis 1:29?

Did God also “forget” to mention that humans could milk water because He did not specifically mention it at Genesis 1:29?

Did God also “forget” to mention that animals could eat meat because He did not specifically mention it at Genesis 1:30?

It makes perfect sense that God would give Noah permission to use living animals as a food source in EXPRESS TERMS because just prior to the flood event God told Noah in EXPRESS TERMS to not to kill animals but, rather, to preserve them alive to repopulate the earth.

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 27: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
diogenes

United States

#30 Dec 9, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
So what made the fatty pieces Abel sacrificed valuable to Abel, and hence a sacrifice to give up?
Already answered. Topical application of burns and other wounds. Something that you cannot dispute.

Since: Jul 10

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#31 Dec 9, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
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Abel and Meat
According to Genesis 4:4 the biblical Abel butchered an animal from his herd and sacrifice fatty pieces of its meat to God.
- Why would Abel sacrifice a food item to God that he was not eating himself?
- Can you prove from the Bible whatever is your answer to that question?
Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
.
. Rather interesting that one would have a herd of animals.. in the first place..

Since: Apr 07

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#32 Dec 9, 2012
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From post 30[1]:
diogenes wrote:
Already answered. Topical application of burns and other wounds. Something that you cannot dispute.


Okay, so you believe Abel sacrificed something that held value as a medicine.

- Do you think topical administration of fat would have been understood by the ancients as a method of eating animal flesh?

- Would Abel have broken any express requirement of God had he chose to take in animal meat?

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 30: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

Since: Apr 07

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#33 Dec 9, 2012
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From post 31[1]:
Maravilla wrote:
Rather interesting that one would have a herd of animals.. in the first place…
It’s surprising that Abel (and other ancients too) herded animals. God taught humans to kill and butcher animals.—(Gen 3:21)

Like God was, Abel too was a killer of animals.

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 31: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

Since: Apr 07

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#34 Dec 9, 2012
Corrected wording…

-

From post 31[1]:
Maravilla wrote:
Rather interesting that one would have a herd of animals.. in the first place…
It’s not surprising that Abel (and other ancients too) herded animals. God taught humans to kill and butcher animals.—(Gen 3:21)

Like God was, Abel too was a killer of animals.

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 31: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

Since: Jul 10

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#35 Dec 9, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
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From post 31[1]:
<quoted text>
It’s surprising that Abel (and other ancients too) herded animals. God taught humans to kill and butcher animals.—(Gen 3:21)
Like God was, Abel too was a killer of animals.
Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:
1. Post 31: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

DID you honestly read that he taught them anything..In that he made them garments out of skins?? Seems like a lot was taken for granted??

Since: Apr 07

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#36 Dec 9, 2012
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From post 35[1]:
Maravilla wrote:
DID you honestly read that he taught them anything..In that he made them garments out of skins?? Seems like a lot was taken for granted??
What other conclusion can you draw?

God provided animal skins to Abel’s parents. What is that if not teaching humans to take animal life to service personal need?

Abel is depicted as offering pieces of animal flesh in sacrifice to God? This was either carrion meat or meat from fresh slaughter. If fresh slaughter then Abel was a killer of animals.

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 35: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

Since: Jul 10

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#37 Dec 9, 2012
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
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From post 35[1]:
<quoted text>
What other conclusion can you draw?
God provided animal skins to Abel’s parents. What is that if not teaching humans to take animal life to service personal need?
Abel is depicted as offering pieces of animal flesh in sacrifice to God? This was either carrion meat or meat from fresh slaughter. If fresh slaughter then Abel was a killer of animals.
Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:
1. Post 35: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
.
Well..if all was peaceful... Why would there be carrion ??

Since: Apr 07

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#38 Dec 10, 2012
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From post 37[1]:
Maravilla wrote:
Well..if all was peaceful... Why would there be carrion ??
The biblical depiction is that animals have lived and died since creation. God made it that way.—(2 Peter 2:12)

Marvin Shilmer
http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post 37: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...
apple

Singapore, Singapore

#39 Dec 10, 2012
ya last time people ate dinosaurs too.

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