What Does It Say About the Source?

What Does It Say About the Source?

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum

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“All the best to you, in life!”

Since: Oct 07

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#1 Dec 28, 2012
In the late 1800's, it was taught by the Bible Students that the faithful and discreet slave referred to the body of consecrated (the anointed) collectively, and the domestics referred to all that Christ would call as his own in the course of time, and that the belongings referred to everything Christ owned, which was everything, for "all things are under his feet."

Then it was taught that C.T. Russell was the faithful and discreet slave, personally, and that the domestics were the household of God on earth (who formerly had believed they were the faithful and discreet slave), and the belongings of Christ were all that he owned, which was was everything, for "all things are under his feet."

Then it was taught that the faithful and discreet slave was the body of consecrated ones on earth, collectively, first appointed over the domestics in 1919, and the domestics are the body of consecrated individually, and the belongings are both the domestics and all others that Christ would call to him in the straights of time.

Then it was taught that the faithful and discreet slave was the body of consecrated ones on earth, collectively, first appointed over the domestics in 1919, and the domestics are the body of consecrated individually, and the belongings are both the domestics and all others that Christ would call his sheep, that is, both those individuals in the Jehu class and those in the Jonadab class.

Now it is taught that the faithful and discreet slave was the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, first appointed over the domestics in 1919, and the domestics are the body of consecrated individually, including the members of the Governing Body, severally, and the belongings are both the domestics and all the other sheep that Jesus has called into companionship with the domestics.

These are most of the major transitions endured by this teaching on the identity of the faithful and discreet slave.

Question: What does it say about the source of these teachings? Did any of these teachings come from God? Did any of these teachings come from the Bible? If so, which ones of them came from God? Which ones from the Bible?

It appears to me fairly straightforward that ALL of these teachings were always from men, not from the Bible. After all, at least four of them are definitely false teachings.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#2 Dec 28, 2012
Regardless of the SOURCE the people involved are only human and therefore take time to learn and understand what the Bible is saying. Particularly obscure passages from symbolic prophecies like Matthew 24.

After all God is the SOURCE of the Bible... does that mean every human who reads the Bible will understand it 100% accurately?

What nonsense. The fact that humans don't always or fully understand something does not of itself say anything of the SOURCE of the information.

“All the best to you, in life!”

Since: Oct 07

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#3 Dec 28, 2012
Aneirin, we cannot ignore the source, because, in each case, the source credited by the publishers of the teachings was identical.

The source credited for all five teachings was God.

The ACTUAL source of at least four of these false teachings was men's imperfect understanding, so the ones who promoted these teachings as God's teachings provably misrepresented their source, at least four out of five times.

Therefore, there is no reason AT ALL to trust that they are correctly identifying their source as God this time around. Is there, Aneirin?

Using your power of reason, that is. If, in fact, you possess such.

“All the best to you, in life!”

Since: Oct 07

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#4 Dec 28, 2012
Statement of FACT:

The Bible does not teach any doctrine AT ALL regarding the identity of the faithful and discreet slave.

Care to dispute that fact, Aneirin? I'd love to see your revelation to the forum of the BIBLE'S teaching of that doctrine.

I know you won't. I know you can't. You aren't alone in that. No one can show where the Bible teaches something it simply does not teach.
Tao itness

United States

#5 Dec 28, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
Regardless of the SOURCE the people involved are only human and therefore take time to learn and understand what the Bible is saying. Particularly obscure passages from symbolic prophecies like Matthew 24.
After all God is the SOURCE of the Bible... does that mean every human who reads the Bible will understand it 100% accurately?
What nonsense. The fact that humans don't always or fully understand something does not of itself say anything of the SOURCE of the information.
When Christ arrives He openly reveals everything and sets matters straight,in fact the WT claims this happened in 1919 and have been actively led by Our Lord since then. Howis it they were,by their own admission(indirectly)they were idolaters for four decades worshipping and praying to Jesus. And they didnt know who the slave was. He at His arrival appoint all His belongings to the slave. How is this possible when its or his identity is NOT KNOWN!? This and many other falsehoods proves one of two things 1:Jesus is not leading them 2 Jesus is incompetent at leading and setting matters straight.BTW before you say something about the imperfections or misunderstanding of the 1st cent followers-they claim to have fulfilled the prophesies of Messianic arrival which puts them in a very different position where there are cleansed and no sinner walks among them and several others that just dont apply to this organisation.

Since: Aug 12

Charlottetown, Canada

#6 Dec 29, 2012
If you persist in believing that the Bible is the word of God then please leave the interpretations alone for awhile and just let God reveal the meaning in his due time. I think that would be prudent.

By God revealing it maybe you should wait for the so called New System and the New Scrolls which should alleviate any doubts as to the interpretive passages in the book.

Otherwise you just set yourself up for disappointment.

“All the best to you, in life!”

Since: Oct 07

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#7 Jan 1, 2013
MakesTheTruthHisOwn wrote:
If you persist in believing that the Bible is the word of God then please leave the interpretations alone for awhile and just let God reveal the meaning in his due time. I think that would be prudent.
That is precisely what the International Bible Students and the cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses have stubbornly refused to do from the very first issue of Zion's Watch Tower until now.

Which is what I raised in the OP, they have not permitted GOD to reveal the meaning, they have revealed meanings as if from God that God never gave them to reveal.

The fact is that if God reveals the meaning of a thing, the meaning does not need to change and will not invalidate the previous.

aadriver

Since: Aug 09

Bedfordshire, England

#8 Jan 1, 2013
They simply make guesses all the time. As soon as it is obvious that one guess has failed, they move on to the next one. This has been going on since Russell started the religion in the 1870s.And I should add, will continue until the religion finally disappears altogether.

“BIBLE TRUTHS *NEVER* CHANGE”

Since: Aug 09

LET GO AND LET GOD

#9 Jan 1, 2013
In agreement with posts #s 7 and 8, the evidence shows that the form of religion that since 1878 has continually printed their own declarations as "the only accurate bible knowledge on earth today" and has been DEAD WRONG on these announcements.....surely cannot BE "the truth" as they claim to be.

What an insult to both the Father and to the Son....to even SUGGEST that they are authoring or directing ANYTHING that comes from WTS publications!

These WTS writers and "religious" leaders have lost ALL credibility a very long time ago.
UNchained

Kingsport, TN

#10 Jan 1, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
Regardless of the SOURCE the people involved are only human and therefore take time to learn and understand what the Bible is saying. Particularly obscure passages from symbolic prophecies like Matthew 24.
After all God is the SOURCE of the Bible... does that mean every human who reads the Bible will understand it 100% accurately?
What nonsense. The fact that humans don't always or fully understand something does not of itself say anything of the SOURCE of the information.
*** Seeking Delightful Words, Correct Words’***

December 15, 1990 Watchtower
Page 26

For over a century, delightful, CORRECT WORDS OF TRUTH covering every aspect of life have been presented in the Watch Tower Society’s publications and widely distributed in many languages.

ROFL

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#11 Jan 1, 2013
UNchained wrote:
<quoted text>
*** Seeking Delightful Words, Correct Words’***
December 15, 1990 Watchtower
Page 26
For over a century, delightful, CORRECT WORDS OF TRUTH covering every aspect of life have been presented in the Watch Tower Society’s publications and widely distributed in many languages.
ROFL
This is absolutely true.

You will find MANY "correct words of truth" in Jehovah's Witnesses publications.

They are not perfect and they are not immune to error, but they still teach an awful lot of TRUTH.

READERS Judge for yourselves:

Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/

Jehovah's Witnesses' publications:
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/

Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible teachings:
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/
sick of the cult

Marlinton, WV

#12 Jan 1, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>

You will find MANY "correct words of truth" in Jehovah's Witnesses publications.
They are not perfect and they are not immune to error, but they still teach an awful lot of TRUTH.
If they have been led by God since 1879, and Christ enthroned since 1914 how is it possible that one single word, one jot or tittle could possibly be wrong? How? Because God is not and never has been with the WTBTS.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#13 Jan 1, 2013
sick of the cult wrote:
<quoted text>
If they have been led by God since 1879, and Christ enthroned since 1914 how is it possible that one single word, one jot or tittle could possibly be wrong? How? Because God is not and never has been with the WTBTS.
So what are you suggesting?

Tell us which Christians have every detail correct without a single error?

Or are you saying that no Christians on earth today are being lead by God?

Come on which is it? You need to make a choice here....
sick of the cult

Marlinton, WV

#14 Jan 1, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
So what are you suggesting?
Tell us which Christians have every detail correct without a single error?
Or are you saying that no Christians on earth today are being lead by God?
Come on which is it? You need to make a choice here....
Hey A, the articles of faith of the major denominations haven't changed in centuries-you/ your leaders would know this if versed in church history, i.e. allowed an education. I know of no major denomination that has been in the date setting business like the JWs so they have no need to apologize. They just plug along preaching the Gospel, feeding the hungry, housing the homeless- you know just being Christians.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#15 Jan 1, 2013
sick of the cult wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey A, the articles of faith of the major denominations haven't changed in centuries-you/ your leaders would know this if versed in church history, i.e. allowed an education. I know of no major denomination that has been in the date setting business like the JWs so they have no need to apologize. They just plug along preaching the Gospel, feeding the hungry, housing the homeless- you know just being Christians.
Why don't you just admit that even people who are lead by God make mistakes.

There are examples of it THROUGHOUT the Bible.

As for the "articles of faith", FAR MORE of what Jehovah's Witnesses teach has remained the same for the entirety of their existence than is contained in those "articles of faith".

In fact most Christian denominations can only actually agree on about 3 lines from the Bible. Nothing more.

“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#16 Jan 1, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you just admit that even people who are lead by God make mistakes.
There are examples of it THROUGHOUT the Bible.
Give us a few.
jace

Woodbridge, VA

#17 Jan 1, 2013
AuldSoul1

1.

In the late 1800's, it was taught by the Bible Students that the faithful and discreet slave referred to the body of consecrated (the anointed) collectively, and the domestics referred to all that Christ would call as his own in the course of time, and that the belongings referred to everything Christ owned, which was everything, for "all things are under his feet."

@@@@@@@@@@

The Above Teaching was DOA the day it came off the presses
strike 1 WT EDITORIAL STAF

2.

Then it was taught that C.T. Russell was the faithful and discreet slave, personally, and that the domestics were the household of God on earth (who formerly had believed they were the faithful and discreet slave), and the belongings of Christ were all that he owned, which was was everything, for "all things are under his feet."

##########

this above teaching was DOA

STRIKE 2 WT EDITORIAL STAFF

3.

Then it was taught that the faithful and discreet slave was the body of consecrated ones on earth, collectively, first appointed over the domestics in 1919, and the domestics are the body of consecrated individually, and the belongings are both the domestics and all others that Christ would call to him in the straights of time.

##########

DOA STRIKE 3 WT EDITORIAL STAFF

Then it was taught that the faithful and discreet slave was the body of consecrated ones on earth, collectively, first appointed over the domestics in 1919, and the domestics are the body of consecrated individually, and the belongings are both the domestics and all others that Christ would call his sheep, that is, both those individuals in the Jehu class and those in the Jonadab class.

#######

DOA WT EDITORIAL STAFF STRIKE 4

*** w81 3/1 p. 29 The ‘Faithful Slave’ Gives “Food at the Proper Time”***

But this does not mean that the “slave” should avoid publishing a possible explanation until the final, complete understanding is available

######

YES IF THEY ARE going to call it THE TRUTH AND NOT MERELY HUMAN COMMENATRY THAT IT IS
jace

Woodbridge, VA

#18 Jan 1, 2013
[
Aneirin

"Regardless of the SOURCE the people involved are only human"
########
This is a very true statement Gareth.,. but unfortunately The WT Editorial staff has NEVER EVER APPLIED THAT TO
any other denomnation?
IF THEY HAVE please provided cited references

gareth boldly states

"and therefore take time to learn and understand what the Bible is saying."

#########

But they have demostrated 4 times Gareth they do not know what the bible is saying dude

Gareth
now this comes your most asinine statement of all


" Particularly obscure passages from symbolic prophecies like Matthew 24."

WOW!!!!!!!!!!
the entire Superstructure of your Denomnations lEADERSHIP is built on an "obscure passage" as you stated

LOL
gareth you are funny man

tHE BIBLE HAD more details on the type of "DRAWERS" the High Priest was to wear --

Gareth makes this PROFOUND STATEMENT

"After all God is the SOURCE of the Bible"
########
DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
NO ONE has said it wasn't in fact this thread is not is God the source of the Bible

but we are taking a critical look at the clowns who came up with the 4 interpetation of Matt 24:44/45
stay on point gareth stop drifting off topic

Gareth makes another profound statement
"does that mean every human who reads the Bible will understand it 100% accurately?"
#######

once again -no one has the above-
please point out who said that

we have merely pointed out the errors of the wt editorial staff showing that they were clueless on this subject,
they certainly are not to be considered "subject matter experts" on matt 24:44/45

now gareth makes pershaps the most ignorant statement needed to defend the wt editorial staff

"What nonsense. The fact that humans don't always or fully understand something does not of itself say anything of the SOURCE of the information."
##########

if someone is wrong on the subject matter is says THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT

that is pretty simply Gareth not that hard esp if they repeatedly GET IT WRONG!!!!!!!

NOTE WHAT YOUR RELIGION SAYS ABOUT GETTING STUFF RIGHT OR WRONG WHEN IT COMES TO THE BIBLE

NOTE THIS STANDARD SETUP BY YOUR RELIGION for bible studies to measure their denomnation
*** tr chap. 2 p. 14 Why It Is Wise to Examine Your Religion ***

"Since this is so, the religion that is approved by God must agree in all its details with the Bible"

yes the wt didn't agree 4 times with the DETAILS OF THE BIBLE as to who god had chosen TO BE HIS MOUTH PC PER THEIR OWN THEOLOGY
THEY WERE CLUELESS AND STILL SO
in 5 yrs they will come out with a new FDS revision lol

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#19 Jan 1, 2013
Christian Trucker wrote:
<quoted text>Give us a few.
Seriously???

I thought you were supposed to know the Bible?

Without blinking I can mention Moses striking the rock and Aaron fabricating the Golden Calf.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#20 Jan 1, 2013
Jace is publishing a lot of hot air because he seems to think the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses are human and make mistakes proves something.

What does it really prove?

That they are human and make mistakes.

That does NOT mean that God is not leading them and teaching them.

I have yet to meet a Christian who claimed that God did not teach them and yet they made mistakes.

Oh actually one person claiming to be Christian did claim perfect understanding from God - UNchained. But I see no evidence of it.

Here is what Jehovah's Witnesses ACTUALLY say:

Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/

Jehovah's Witnesses' publications:
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/

Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible teachings:
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/

Jehovah's Witnesses openly admit that they are STILL LEARNING.

They have always said so. And that's the way it should be.

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