Jesus raised to heaven as-----?

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#104 Sep 20, 2012
So, FlunkingTheTest- Do you believe he is a Godman in heaven?
Without Blood?

Andy- start your OWN Tpoic- I'll bite!
dr of religion

United States

#105 Sep 20, 2012
the Mad JW wrote:
So, FlunkingTheTest- Do you believe he is a Godman in heaven?
Without Blood?
Andy- start your OWN Tpoic- I'll bite!
He is a spirit being in heaven fool.He was transfigured before the ascention.The wt teaches he was vaporized.I win again kid.Its like shootin fish in a barrel

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#106 Sep 20, 2012
Hello TMJ,
the Mad JW wrote:
So- Do you believe he is a Godman in heaven?
Without Blood?
The Godman has connotations to it that do not reflect my views. So I will answer it this way (as I did above)...
Christ is the literal "Son of God", making Him fully God and Christ is the "Son of Man", making Him fully man who currently resides in the third heaven and I believe probably with blood.

Hebrews 4:14 NASB
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

Acts 7:55-56 NASB
55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said,“Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

Peace,
Bob

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#107 Sep 20, 2012
So- the answer is YES, from Flunking, and NO from Docrap.

Churchoids in Conflict

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#108 Sep 20, 2012
Hello TMJ,

I guess, you flunk also based on how you judge things too because you differ from the direct teachings of the WTBTS. For shame... That makes you "The Mad Non-JW", does it not?

But as for Dr of Religion and me, our differences could be reconciled if I ask him what does he mean by "transfigured before his ascention"...

Peace,
Bob

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#109 Sep 20, 2012
Flunking- any subject in dispute- like THIS is - is EASILY understood by starting at the beginning.

Adam BECAME a soul.
God said they would DIE- even SPELLING IT OUT- that it was RETURNING to the ground.(Grave/Hell)

It is your REAL God who said "You CERTAINLY will NOT die!"

Thus, the rest of the Bible is COMPLETELY distorted when you read it...and you WANT it that way!

Since: May 09

Woodstock, IL

#110 Sep 20, 2012
Matthew 10:28 just blew up in your face again my friend... Good night.

Peace,
Bob
dr of religion

United States

#111 Sep 21, 2012
PassingTheTest wrote:
Hello TMJ,
I guess, you flunk also based on how you judge things too because you differ from the direct teachings of the WTBTS. For shame... That makes you "The Mad Non-JW", does it not?
But as for Dr of Religion and me, our differences could be reconciled if I ask him what does he mean by "transfigured before his ascention"...
Peace,
Bob
Well bob jesus was transfigured before he ascended to heaven because one cannot be in the presence of god in an earthly body. Thats why moses was transfigured on the mountain when he talked to god and got the tablets.His face was burnt when he came back down.If somone is not transfigured before metting god they are burnt up like a moth to a flame.I hope that helps bob.

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#112 Sep 22, 2012
Hello DoR,
dr of religion wrote:
<quoted text>Well bob jesus was transfigured before he ascended to heaven because one cannot be in the presence of god in an earthly body. Thats why moses was transfigured on the mountain when he talked to god and got the tablets.His face was burnt when he came back down.If somone is not transfigured before metting god they are burnt up like a moth to a flame.I hope that helps bob.
Please show me where Moses is transfigured when he speaks to God.

Peace,
Bob

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#113 Sep 22, 2012
the Mad JW wrote:
Flunking- any subject in dispute- like THIS is - is EASILY understood by starting at the beginning.
Adam BECAME a soul.
God said they would DIE- even SPELLING IT OUT- that it was RETURNING to the ground.(Grave/Hell)
It is your REAL God who said "You CERTAINLY will NOT die!"
Thus, the rest of the Bible is COMPLETELY distorted when you read it...and you WANT it that way!
They ignore all that, clining to Matt 10- and REFUSE to acknowledge that the Greek word translated as "Kill" also is used as meaning "to DESTROY".

Anyone can see which meaning it has in that verse- ESPECIALLY since the ENTIRE BIBLE shows which is meant.

Man can kill the body (soul), but cannot DESTROY the body(soul), since Christ will RERSURRECT it.

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#114 Sep 22, 2012
Of course they will choose the FIRST meaning , to side with their false dogma- which contradicts God, and proves Satan the Bearer of TRUTH!

It's what churchoids DO!

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#115 Sep 22, 2012
Jesus Christ foretold persecution many times. He warned His hearers that persecution would accompany the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. In Revelation, He warns future generations of the persecution they would face because of their faith in Him. He warns His church that at the close of history a time of trouble “such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time” will occur (Matthew 24:21). For God’s people to endure these times without wavering in their faith, Christ offered the words of encouragement we find in the text in question, Matthew 10:28. We understand, and believe, that our bodies may die, but our soul does not.

The problem here is twofold. First, the text contains a different message depending on the reader’s understanding of what constitutes a “soul.” Second, people who use this text to prove the existence of an immortal soul often fail to read the second part of the same verse.

If we read this text with a pre-determined idea that the human soul is an immortal, intangible part of us that lives on after death, then Jesus’ words do seem to confirm that the soul cannot be killed. However, if we read the same text with an understanding that a soul is the joining together of a body and the breath of God (see Genesis 2:7), Jesus’ words are a promise of a life to come even when this life ends. He promises that, although our bodies may be destroyed now, He will create for us new bodies at the resurrection and that our souls will once again live. The text remains perfectly valid even with an understanding that humans “go to sleep” when they die, awaiting the resurrection day. Therefore, this text cannot be used to prove anything conclusive about the soul without further evidence.

Thankfully, further evidence does exist! And we need to read no further than the second half of the same verse to get clarification from Jesus. The entire text of Matthew 10:28 reads:

“And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

When we consider the second half of the verse, it becomes clear that the soul can, indeed, die. Further, it states that hell is the place where souls go to die. This calls into question the concept of eternal torment without end in hellfire, but that’s another topic.

Though we should always be willing to accept Jesus’ words as true, we can be comforted in knowing that His words are supported by the rest of the Scriptures. Jesus says that the soul can be destroyed and will thus die. We see the same thing stated twice in Ezekiel 18.

Ezekiel 18:4 records God as saying:

“Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.”

Ezekiel 18:20 explains:

“The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.”

The text in Matthew does, indeed, say that mankind cannot kill the soul. The soul can only be destroyed in hell, and man does not have the power to send anyone there. That is a job that belongs only to the righteous Judge, the Almighty God.

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#116 Sep 22, 2012
"but cannot Apokteino the soul".

Apokteino:
1-to kill in any way whatever
to destroy, to allow to perish

2-metaph. to extinguish, abolish
to inflict mortal death
(theology) to deprive of spiritual life and procure eternal misery in hell

Thus Jesus referred to the dead as "sleeping" for man (souls) die, and are killed- but they are NOT destroyed until GOD makes that call, for his Son will RESURRECT them for Judgment.

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#117 Sep 22, 2012
For a VERY INTERESTING JEWISH comment on this-

http://skipmoen.com/tag/apokteino/

They, too, bring out how absurd a churchoids view on this is, and ADDS TO IT!
dr of religion

United States

#118 Sep 22, 2012
the Mad JW wrote:
Flunking- any subject in dispute- like THIS is - is EASILY understood by starting at the beginning.
Adam BECAME a soul.
God said they would DIE- even SPELLING IT OUT- that it was RETURNING to the ground.(Grave/Hell)
It is your REAL God who said "You CERTAINLY will NOT die!"
Thus, the rest of the Bible is COMPLETELY distorted when you read it...and you WANT it that way!
Well kid those three days jesus 's body was in the tomb his spirit was in hades offering salvation to the lost souls including adam.Ya can kill a spirit kid just the body.I thought everybody knew that.

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#119 Sep 22, 2012
Thus, the principle- if it LOOKSlike a scripture contradicts what Christ said (like the dead are LIVING) check the Greek for a clue, since a translation often misses a detail.

Since: May 09

Chicago, IL

#120 Sep 24, 2012
Hello TMJ,
the Mad JW wrote:
<quoted text>
They ignore all that, clining to Matt 10- and REFUSE to acknowledge that the Greek word translated as "Kill" also is used as meaning "to DESTROY".
Actually, you are wrong here. Why? Because Christ used both "apokteino" AND "apollymi" to CONTRAST the differences. Man cannot permanently DESTROY the body either which is another thing Christ pointed out in the contrast. If Christ meant "dstroyed" as you are saying, he would have used the ONE term "apollymi" throughout.

This is as goofy as having "kyrios" flip flopping meanings between Christ and Jehovah that the WTBTS does throughout the NT. Even to the point of flip flopping within a specific scene, paragraph and even sentence. Sheesh... Talk about ignore the integrity of scripture - Yikes!
the Mad JW wrote:
Anyone can see which meaning it has in that verse- ESPECIALLY since the ENTIRE BIBLE shows which is meant.
Man can kill the body (soul), but cannot DESTROY the body(soul), since Christ will RERSURRECT it.
Why are you flip flopping the meaning of "apokteino" between "kill" and "destroy" when the word with in the same sentence using comparing the same action across to separate objects? Even the NWT does not do that... Get with the program - or is this another area you disagree with the WTBTS???

You should ready stop here while you are just behind in the argument. If you try to stretch this any further, you will just make yourself totally irrelevant.

Peace,
Bob

Peace,
Bob
dr of religion

United States

#121 Sep 24, 2012
the Mad JW wrote:
Thus, the principle- if it LOOKSlike a scripture contradicts what Christ said (like the dead are LIVING) check the Greek for a clue, since a translation often misses a detail.
Everytime you try to prove your point you dig your self in deeper kid.You better quit while your not ahead.Its impossible to prove a falsehood son.No matter what the wt says.they may print falsehoods and spoon feed you it but that dont cut the mustard in the real world kid.Your simply out gunned and out educated. Go home and take your meds for depression. Sorry son, Its over.

Since: Jul 11

Portadown

#122 Sep 25, 2012
Nomi wrote:
He was raised as a Spirit Being. 1Cor.15:50.
What you post is not Biblical teaching ,you hypocrite.You who posted a LIE on this forum about me,Nomi.

1 Corinthians 15:50.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

What has this verse got to do with Jesus resurrection on earth Nomi?

This verse of Holy Scripture deals with just that Nomi.
Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Who is lying Nomi? Jesus ,or the watch tower?

Since: Jul 11

Portadown

#123 Sep 25, 2012
the Mad JW wrote:
Thus, the principle- if it LOOKSlike a scripture contradicts what Christ said (like the dead are LIVING) check the Greek for a clue, since a translation often misses a detail.
Your treasured translation which you studied for two whole years Mad missed 5 details 15 times,in your own challenge,and exposed the watch tower as the fools they are.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Jehovah's Witness Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
What is the trinity? (Apr '13) 16 min PrufSammy 23,703
Brexit voted out of EU, Globalist Must Crease C... 17 min Lordylordy9111 41
So far away 38 min Samson 102
YES-Jesus WAS once known as Michael (Sep '14) 48 min Sillyis 7,361
Speaking of censoring 1 hr RedhorseWoman 12
What are the new heavens and the new earth? (Mar '13) 1 hr red blood relative 2,719
All Pals Now! 2 hr tom 5
Read below and say you believe they have the truth 19 hr red blood relative 289
More from around the web